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09-05-2002, 01:09 PM
Well, they went and did it. The UPA put up a list of players
not playing in the US open on their website.
I'm really disappointed with both sides here. I was also forwarded an email. I don't know how reliable this information is. This is really hurting the sport.
Can't we all just get along ?!

(Start of the email message)
The History

Behrman did not pay Strickland his full 1st place check($40,000?) at the 2000 US Open(probably the most successful Open with 280+ players and full house w/spectators) until 6 months after

Behrman did not pay numerous pros their money at the 2001 Masters until 6 months after(some say there are still 2-3 who have not been paid)

2001 US Open Behrman tookout $30,000 out of the prizefund 5 days into the event after advertising a guarantee of 72000 added(reducing the added money into half the amount)

Sept 2001 UPA informs Behrman that retribution is expected for the money he took out. Behrman agrees to make amends in a meeting with UPA Board members Phil Muller,Max Eberle, and Charlie Williams.

Oct 2002 Behrman denies making any committment to repaying money to players

Oct 2002 UPA informs Behrman that there will be new guidelines for sanctioning events that all promoters will have to adhere to

March 2002 UPA Sanctioning & Promoter Guidelines are established and publicized

May 2002 Behrman breaks the deadline the UPA set for his contract being due . UPA informs Behrman that UPA is prepared to make alternate arrangements for the dates of the US Open to insure UPA Players have safe financial environment to compete in. Behrman asks for a 3 week extension which the Board gave him.

June 2002 Behrman again misses the deadline but asks for another brief extension while agreeing to UPA terms on the contract. Behrman requests that he only deal with Vice President Phil Muller in the negotiations

July 2002 Behrman finalizes the contract verbally via phone with Vice President Phil Muller and promises contract delivery and escrow down payment of $4000 in a matter of 1 week but asks for UPA full support publicly in the meanwhile

July 2002 UPA does not receive contract and repeatedly attempts to contact Behrman with little or no contact.

Aug 2002 Behrman is contacted and desires to hand deliver contract and money to a UPA representative in Las Vegas. UPA notifies him to send through mail. A UPA Player is also called to retrieve contract in Vegas as a back-up.

Aug 2002 NOW: Behrman informs UPA that he has not signed contract nor will pay the agreed downpayment in advance. Also informs UPA that further negotiations are required and that all agreed points before be changed. Some highlights include $10000 repayment of last years reduction be changed to repayment of how he sees fit vs. UPA disbursement to players affected.



I think it is safe to say that we cannot trust Mr Behrman as the UPA have turned the other cheek so many times already.

The UPA has given Behrman every chance there is possible to make the US Open go on smoothly but I must say that it is Mr Behrman who has caused the situation to come to this.





Alternate Event


The UPA had made alternate preparations in Atlanta GA with an upcoming new room that had earlier on inquired on doing a UPA event.

Negotiations did not seem in favor of the US Open so the UPA was close in finalizing a committment for an alternate event in Sept with many sponsors from the US Open supporting the new event.

But the event was called off as Behrman insisted on working a deal through with the UPA at the very last day of his deadline





I feel the UPA must at the very least write and inform all players, fans , and industry of the situation.



I believe mr Berhman has misled many others in developing ties to his event



Many now look to the UPA as an official stamp of approval that an event is secure and safe to play, attend, and sponsor. The UPA has an obligation and responsibility to let the public know the full truth of what has transpired.





The UPA must at the very least give a public disclaimer to protect their name and their players. The UPA must publicly announce that it has no part or association in the US Open for good or bad. They must announce that players, fans, and sponsors are not protected at all at the event and they get involved at their own risk.



All I know is that in a perfect world any pool player with an ounce of pride and self-respect should not even blink at not being able to play at the US Open.

(end of the email message)

I just hope they (UPA) are happy with probably wrecking
an event that just might put the sport in the limelight.

J. Davis

Kato
09-05-2002, 01:41 PM
"They must announce that players, fans, and sponsors are not protected at all at the event and they get involved at their own risk."

Please somebody explain to me how as a fan I am at risk? Thanks UPA for caring about me "the fan".

Kato

Bob C
09-05-2002, 01:53 PM
Kato, I think your only risk is possibility of being forced to watch a final between Lou Condo, Jr. and Yi-Che-Kuo.

Kato
09-05-2002, 02:10 PM
Robin: "Holy crazy flim-flam matchup in the finals Batman"
Batman: "Yes Robin, it seems just a little odd, doesn't it?"
Robin: "Who woulda thunk it? I mean, this Condo guy, isn't he just a little suspicious looking?"
Batman: "Perhaps your right Robin, and perhaps everybody is in cahoots?"
Robin: "Holy crazy mysteries on a stick Batman"
Batman: "Perhaps Robin, we should now sit back and drink another Rolling Rock."

After all, that's Kato's plan, that and study that slug rack Voodoo plans on putting on me in the CCB Open.

Kato

WaltVA
09-05-2002, 02:20 PM
Kato - Maybe the UPA is thinking of the risk to the rest of the fans when the CCB'ers, led by Kato and Voodoo, break into "full party mode." LOL

Walt in VA - checking on his Kevlar vest for the Open

9 Ball Girl
09-05-2002, 02:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: poolfan4ever:</font><hr>All I know is that in a perfect world any pool player with an ounce of pride and self-respect should not even blink at not being able to play at the US Open.<hr></blockquote>

Especially when it's going to be on Pay Per View.

Wendy~~sighing. But LOL on Kato's Batman &amp; Robin "parody".

Kato
09-05-2002, 02:52 PM
If that's anything like Rackemups "full jump mode" then perhaps you're right.

Here's a question though. These guys aren't playing in the U.S. Open. Does this mean they won't be in Virginia at the same time? Can you think of a better possible gambling scenario? No morning match times. Oh yeah, some of those boys could be there even though they aren't playing.

Kato~~~beginning to gather strength in preparation.

jjinfla
09-05-2002, 05:43 PM
I guess if you say something loud enough and long enough you even start to believe it yourself. But you guys are only going to end up screwing yourself in the long run. Right now I doubt that anyone cares that some of the UPA crybabies are not going to be there. Strickland will be there; Archer will be there; and they really were the only drawing cards that the UPA had. Mika was popular but now it appears that he is nothing but a fool too. As for Charlie - everyone complains he plays too slow anyway - so let him stay home and fondle his cue stick. Jake

Troy
09-05-2002, 06:00 PM
Interesting that the dates you quote are NEXT month.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: poolfan4ever:</font><hr>
The History (snipped)


Oct 2002 Behrman denies making any committment to repaying money to players

Oct 2002 UPA informs Behrman that there will be new guidelines for sanctioning events that all promoters will have to adhere to

Ken
09-05-2002, 07:07 PM
The behaviour of the UPAyours is a total disgrace. I have traveled 1400 miles to attend one of the little dictator's events. I absolutely will never attend an UPAyours sanctioned event. First at their site they blacklisted some tournaments that were not even seeking their sanctioning, now this. I have never witnessed anything so UNprofessional!!! This personal vendetta against Barry is the end of the UPAyours and I'm sure thousands of hard core pool fans will feel the same when they see what the little dictator is trying to do to the Open.
KenCT

ted harris
09-05-2002, 07:57 PM
While I have the utmost respect for the formidable list of touring pro's on the UPA website, do you think the quality of play at the US Open will be any less? There are dozens of other top players that are not on that list, and they WILL be participating, not to mention the ones that are touring pro members of the UPA that also participate in the US Open anyway. Not to mention that the U.S. is not the only country that plays pool, and there will be plenty of aliens there. I have seen some of the best pool ever elsewhere. I really do not think that we will have to worry about the quality of play at the US Open. It will be as high as it ever has been.

nmshooter
09-06-2002, 01:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: ted harris:</font><hr> there will be plenty of aliens there. <hr></blockquote>

Are you saying Patrick is gonna be there? WOW, is he gonna be wearing his outfit that he wanted to wear to the World Championships? I cant wait, I gotta get the PPV now.

Of course, I know what you meant when you said "aliens" but I couldnt resist. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

09-06-2002, 02:55 AM
an assumption cannot be made as to who will be there. you'll only know when the day arrives. there are players who sent in their fee long ago before all this stuff came down, and are probably waiting to see what happens. and if the issue is not resolved, will ask for a refund.

good luck on getting their money back.

jjinfla
09-06-2002, 06:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: ted harris:</font><hr> While I have the utmost respect for the formidable list of touring pro's on the UPA... <hr></blockquote>

Why would anyone have respect for them? Their silence has shown them for their true worth. If they are going along with these demands then why would anyone respect them? The winner of the US Open will have his name listed in the BCA rulebook for people to see for generations to come. He will be featured in every pool magazine. Most likely will be on ESPN this year. Also Pay-per-view. Plus Acu-Stats. What does the upa provide for the winner? I still don't even know who won their last tournament in the abandoned building. Jake~~~I guess their name says it all - up-a-yours.

09-06-2002, 06:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: poolfan4ever:</font><hr> ,,,, This is really hurting the sport.
Can't we all just get along ?!

J. Davis
<hr></blockquote>

dude,,,,the sport has always been hurting.

Vicki
09-06-2002, 08:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: arnie:</font><hr>
an assumption cannot be made as to who will be there. you'll only know when the day arrives. there are players who sent in their fee long ago before all this stuff came down, and are probably waiting to see what happens. and if the issue is not resolved, will ask for a refund.

good luck on getting their money back. <hr></blockquote>

There goes Arnie, smoking that stuff again.

Tell me, Arnie, how many pool players do you know who pay long in advance for anything? I don't know of a single one. I doubt if many, if any had paid before September 1. The players don't pay until they absolutely have to. You're full of crap! And tell me another thing, why, exactly, should their money be refunded to them if they paid then don't show without an explanation - because I doubt if any of these guys are going to pick up the phone and call Barry to offer an explanation. I could see giving their money back if their grandma dies and they can't make it - but boycotting is not a reason to be reimbursed.

You said assumptions cannot be made but you certainly have made some strong assumptions... I said strong, not smart.

Vicki

jjinfla
09-06-2002, 10:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: poolfan4ever:</font><hr> Well, they went and did it. The UPA put up a list of players
not playing in the US open on their website...<hr></blockquote>

I wonder how many of the named players are not going because they don't have the money to cover the fee plus expenses? Or how many were not planning on going anyway? But either way the US Open will be held and we may be treated to some great play by some unknowns. And it should make it easier for the "real pros" to win. When October first comes around and these "holdouts" start reading the names of the top finishers and realize that could have been their name there, then the dawn will come and they will see how they were led down that primrose path. But they made their bed, let them lie in it. Everybody says Brady should have cancelled the Open last year. But in reality it was the players who wanted it to go on. All this other talk about blaming Brady is just BS. If the players felt that strongly about it they should just have packed up and gone home and forfeited their entry fee. But they voted to stay, "for the good of the sport". Yeah, right. But that just shows how greedy the players are. I have not heard one comment about Bustamante's personal tragedy. His nine month old baby dies and he thinks it is more important to play pool. What a supreme idiot. I would have packed up and been on the next plane home to see my daughter for the last time and be with my wife in her time of need. Jake~~~sure am glad that I didn't take up pool until late in life so that I couldn't waste my life with this crap.

Ken
09-06-2002, 11:49 AM
Jake, I seem to recall that Barry offerred the NY players their money back if they wanted to go home because of the WTC attack. I believe they all preferred to continue playing. I'm sure that since the players were United, if they had wanted to stop play they could have insisted that Barry give them their money back or else reschedule the tournament.

I'll bet that the Convention Center would have cut Barry some slack since they aren't exactly flooded with bookings.

The players were given the option to continue with a reduced payout and they accepted. Later the little dictator came back and protested that arrangement. He seems to want it both ways.
KenCT

Wally_in_Cincy
09-06-2002, 12:23 PM
[quote=jjinfla

I have not heard one comment about Bustamante's personal tragedy. His nine month old baby dies and he thinks it is more important to play pool. What a supreme idiot. I would have packed up and been on the next plane home to see my daughter for the last time and be with my wife in her time of need. Jake~~~sure am glad that I didn't take up pool until late in life so that I couldn't waste my life with this crap. <hr></blockquote>

You're being a little judgemental on Bustamante.

IIRC he couldn't get a plane right away and it was gonna take 2 days to get home anyway.

Puyat has been awful good to these guys and they may have put some pressure on him even though he denies it.

Quote:

"I wanted to go home but I talked to Puyat and he told me that if I wanted to go home it was up to me but I decided to stay and play for the Philippines.

This is a big tournament, not only for money but for prestige too. People in the Philippines don't sleep, they just watch the pool. I really hope I can win it."

I don't know if it's proper for us to guess what's in his heart.

09-06-2002, 01:07 PM
I REALLY DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD BE COMMENTING ON SOMETHING LIKE THAT, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE THE SLIGHTEST IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. HOW CAN YOU PRESUME TO KNOW WHAT WAS GOING THROUGH BUSTAMANTE'S HEAD AND THE FEELINGS HE HAD FOR HIS DAUGHTER? DO YOU KNOW ALL THE FACTORS THAT WENT INTO HIS ULTIMATE DECISION? DO YOU KNOW ANY OF THEM? DO YOU LIKE MAKING IGNORANT STATEMENTS? ARE YOU THE "SUPREME IDIOT"? I'M ASKING THESE QUESTIONS BECAUSE I DON'T MAKE A HABIT OUT OF ASSUMING I ALREADY KNOW THE TRUTH. AND I REALLY DON'T THINK IT'S COOL TO MAKE SUCH NEGATIVE COMMENTS ABOUT SOMETHING AS SENSITIVE AS THE LOSS OF A LOVED ONE.

AzHousePro
09-06-2002, 01:21 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: jjinfla:</font><hr> I have not heard one comment about Bustamante's personal tragedy. His nine month old baby dies and he thinks it is more important to play pool. What a supreme idiot. I would have packed up and been on the next plane home to see my daughter for the last time and be with my wife in her time of need. <hr></blockquote>

Jake, isn't that a little overboard? What could he have done for his daughter were he there? It was another day or so that he stayed at the tourney and this is not just a hobby for someone like Bustamante. The fans from the Philippines follow pool like Americans follow football and like the brits follow that crazy game they call football.

When a player like Earl or Charlie or Archer play in an event in the states, they represent themselves and their sponsors. When Busty plays, he plays for his entire country.

Mike

Vicki
09-06-2002, 02:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: jjinfla:</font><hr> I have not heard one comment about Bustamante's personal tragedy. His nine month old baby dies and he thinks it is more important to play pool. What a supreme idiot. I would have packed up and been on the next plane home to see my daughter for the last time and be with my wife in her time of need. <hr></blockquote>

Jake,

With all due respect, you are talking about something you know nothing about. You have not walked in Francisco Bustamante's shoes. Everyone has their own way of dealing with tragedy. You clearly have underestimated how important pool is to the Philippine people. I am sure he did what he felt was right and made the best decision he could. This is something that is DEFINATELY not for us to judge or even comment on. Shame on you!

Vicki

Voodoo Daddy
09-06-2002, 10:05 PM
I remember when Efren lost his dad, he was playing in the Florida Flair Up several years ago. He said basically my dad is dead and I cant do anything about that from here...I'm gonna win this tournament and then go home to him, and thats exactly what he did. My hat goes off to Francisco for his inner strength to bare down and the mental toughness on his part was unsurpassed...IMO!