PDA

View Full Version : Ironic



Qtec
01-11-2011, 10:09 PM
http://www.rawstory.com/images/new/beckwithgun.jpg

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">An image published to Beck's website, of the conspiracy host holding a handgun and posing like a character in a television action-drama, was recently pulled offline. </div></div>

link (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/fox-news-chief-tells-gop-employees-tone-down/)

Q

sack316
01-12-2011, 02:12 AM
Ironic sort of like former Democratic congressman Paul Kanjorski who said yesterday:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We all lose an element of freedom when security considerations distance public officials from the people. Therefore, it is incumbent on all Americans to create an atmosphere of civility and respect in which political discourse can flow freely, without fear of violent confrontation. </div></div>

But only a few months ago (October 23) said:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That Scott down there that's running for governor of Florida, instead of running for governor of Florida, they ought to have him and shoot him. Put him against the wall and shoot him. </div></div>

Even Congresswoman Louise M. Slaughter's name is ironic considering.

Irony is fun. Using tragedy to attempt to make associations and influence the masses is stupid as heck (there, I toned down the rhetoric)

Sack

LWW
01-12-2011, 04:54 AM
Snoopy and the left are desperately grasping at straws in an effort to deflect that after their beloved state ignored clues for years that this guy was a nut case ... one of their own went on a murderous rampage.

LWW

Qtec
01-12-2011, 05:42 AM
Its ironic because while preaching non violence, the photo in the background shows him holding a gun doing his 'Miami Vice' impersonation.

Listen to non violent beck from 2001.

Beck flashback: I want to kill Charlie Rangel with a shovel (http://www.dailykos.com/tv/w/002095/)

Q

BTW, full quote.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"That Scott down there that's running for governor of Florida," Mr. Kanjorski said. "Instead of running for governor of Florida, they ought to have him and shoot him. Put him against the wall and shoot him. <span style='font-size: 17pt'>He stole billions of dollars from the United States government and he's running for governor of Florida. He's a millionaire and a billionaire. He's no hero. He's a damn crook. <u>It's just we don't prosecute big crooks."</u></span>

Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/belt...-#ixzz1AowBuyYo (http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/01/ex-rep-paul-kanjorski-d-pa-fla-gov-rick-scott-they-ought-put-him-#ixzz1AowBuyYo)
</div></div>

sack316
01-12-2011, 06:56 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its ironic because while preaching non violence, the photo in the background shows him holding a gun doing his 'Miami Vice' impersonation.
</div></div>

Yes, I realize why it was ironic. The two other examples I gave are ironic as well.

And presenting the entire Kanjorski quote does what? Makes it non-violent? Makes it acceptable? Makes it somehow less inflammatory? Makes it magically a shining example of the civil and respectful discourse he's saying we should have?

So it's not OK to say something like he said... unless one feels they have some good reason? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Sack

Sev
01-12-2011, 07:40 AM
Your on the wrong side of this Q. Take your medicine and accept it.

By the way no comment on the Westboro church protesting at the 9 year olds funeral?
Cant help but notice some of our esteemed members have not expressed any outrage over this.
Or is it perhaps that you cant make a connction between them and Sarah Palin its of no consequence no matter how distasteful it is.

LWW
01-12-2011, 08:47 AM
I thinks it's because a no doubt link can be made between Phelps, Phelps Jr, the WBC and the democrook party.

They will defend the regime no matter what and against even the most heinous acts.

BTW ... has anyone noticed who shows up at the funerals to run these idjits off? Has anyone noticed who doesn't?

LWW

Gayle in MD
01-12-2011, 10:46 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its ironic because while preaching non violence, the photo in the background shows him holding a gun doing his 'Miami Vice' impersonation.
</div></div>

Yes, I realize why it was ironic. The two other examples I gave are ironic as well.

And presenting the entire Kanjorski quote does what? Makes it non-violent? Makes it acceptable? Makes it somehow less inflammatory? Makes it magically a shining example of the civil and respectful discourse he's saying we should have?

So it's not OK to say something like he said... unless one feels they have some good reason? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Sack </div></div>

IMO, the operative word on him is "Former."

None of the Democratics took up for his statements, nor denied he made them, nor pretended they were just fine.

That's the difference between Democratics, and Republicans.

OTOH, there are so damn manny time when Beck has gone over the line, told lies, fomented anger, said despicable things abut the President.

The unprecedented behavior of Republicans, and their supporters, has been extreme.

Screaming out, "YOU LIE" at the President, during a senate Address????

Beck, saying the Obama is a racist, who hates white people???

you can pull out a few examples of Democratics using bad judgement, the wrong words, but there is NO DOUBT, the racist, threatening, Gun linked violent rhetoric, and actions, have been hugely more prevasive coming from the right, and no Repub Leader, spoke against it, no, they CHEERED IT! I SAW IT!

No excuse for that!

G.

sack316
01-12-2011, 11:33 AM
I dunno G. Your points are valid, but the type and tone of rhetoric that has been in question lately is something I see from both sides. Certainly the likes of a Beck, Limbaugh, Palin, etc are more pervasive as their status and popularity put them in the limelight more. Their comments are everywhere, always, regardless it seems.

Personally I try to watch and listen to both sides of the punditry. And to be brutally honest I see no discernible difference between the prime time lineups on Fox and MSNBC, other than where they stand on issues. The tone and rhetoric is mirror-like, though IMHO. Of course I also remember when Bush was president... when the hate speak MSNBC admonishes against Obama was OK by them a few years ago. Hell, 3 years ago call the president a nazi or a racist and you stood a good chance of making Olbermann's Best Person in the world for that night. Do it after January of '09 and you're on World's Worst.

And now, <u>both sides</u> mind you, want to take a tragedy and use it... USE the victims sorrow to further their own agenda. And it makes me sick. Hell, even the little girls own father said he doesn't think there should be any more restrictions on speech than there already are... The little girls DAD. Does anybody listen to him or play his sound bite over and over again? Nope, they are too busy grasping at straws and attempting to pin blame on things that there is absolutely no evidence of yet. And again, let me emphasize both sides are doing this. It would be easy for me to pick on the left on this one... but I've gotta be honest and say I see just as much BS coming from the right.

Sorry to rant, I'm just sick of seeing everybody and their Momma stretching and reaching to find places, people, and things to blame this on other than the idiotic maniac himself that did it. And instead of waiting for answers to the questions to come to light, it seems the media would rather create its own answers first. And in doing so they are creating the very hysteria and anger which they claim to be rallying against right now. it's absolutely mind boggling to me watching all of this the last few days.

Sack

Gayle in MD
01-12-2011, 12:56 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dunno G. Your points are valid, but the type and tone of rhetoric that has been in question lately is something I see from both sides. Certainly the likes of a Beck, Limbaugh, Palin, etc are more pervasive as their status and popularity put them in the limelight more. Their comments are everywhere, always, regardless it seems.

Personally I try to watch and listen to both sides of the punditry. And to be brutally honest I see no discernible difference between the prime time lineups on Fox and MSNBC, other than where they stand on issues. The tone and rhetoric is mirror-like, though IMHO. Of course I also remember when Bush was president... when the hate speak MSNBC admonishes against Obama was OK by them a few years ago.


Hell, 3 years ago call the president a nazi or a racist and you stood a good chance of making Olbermann's Best Person in the world for that night. Do it after January of '09 and you're on World's Worst.

And now, <u>both sides</u> mind you, want to take a tragedy and use it... USE the victims sorrow to further their own agenda. And it makes me sick. Hell, even the little girls own father said he doesn't think there should be any more restrictions on speech than there already are... The little girls DAD. Does anybody listen to him or play his sound bite over and over again? Nope, they are too busy grasping at straws and attempting to pin blame on things that there is absolutely no evidence of yet. And again, let me emphasize both sides are doing this. It would be easy for me to pick on the left on this one... but I've gotta be honest and say I see just as much BS coming from the right.

Sorry to rant, I'm just sick of seeing everybody and their Momma stretching and reaching to find places, people, and things to blame this on other than the idiotic maniac himself that did it. And instead of waiting for answers to the questions to come to light, it seems the media would rather create its own answers first. And in doing so they are creating the very hysteria and anger which they claim to be rallying against right now. it's absolutely mind boggling to me watching all of this the last few days.

Sack </div></div>

You make some very good points, Sack, but I can't agree that Democratics, to the same degree as the radical right wing, the Tea party types, used guns and killing rhetoric the same way, nor to the same degree.


Obviously, when the FBI, AND organizations like The southern Poverty Law Center, and MNY OTHERS, warned, for over two years, that there was a growing, very dangerous, threatening RW mood of violence, in our society, they have a reason, to say so.


I don't think anyone could really fully understand what I'm talking about, unless they saw those T.P people in action.

Also, I didn't hear the kind of vicious attacks against Bush, during his first campaign, not until he started to ignore Congressional Law, Treaties, and the Constitution, by using signing statements, breaking laws, failing to equip nour troops, people learned that he had lied about the Iraq threat.

His failure to cut short one of his many, many vacations, more than anny previous president, and didn't show up nor show concern, for the victims of Katrina...I'd say, everything changed, after those incidents, not wshile he was runnning for office, the way President Obama, was slandered, called a Muslim, called a terrorist lover, and the right, on the radio, and the republican Leaders, making it clear, their main goal is to see his presidency, FAIL.

I'd say, there is quite a difference, also, between Olbermann, and Beck, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, a vast difference, in fact...and also Olbermann's presentation of his "Worst Person In The World" is presented in a very obvious "tongue in cheek" manner, quite a difference from Beck, calling him a racist who hates white people, or O'Reilly's, Tiller (Can never remember if it is Diller, or Tiller, lol)the Killer, or Palin's accusations the president, "Pals around with terrorists" and fr worse...against Democratics.

Palin has been demonizing this president, the first lady, McCain's Campaign folks, katie Couric, you name it, she's done it, and never apologized for any of it....

Even when Obama was attempting to do what all Presidents, do, and have done, for generations, like address school children, for example, Palin, Limbaugh,Beck, Bachmann, virtually all of the pundits from the right, painted it a way I have neer seen in my whole lifetime.

IMO, the sheriff in Az, and Gifford's father, are the only people who had the nerve to fully address the misguided actions, and statements, from the right, which neither you, nor I know fully, to what degree, sick people, like this guy, are ginned up enough to take action. His own words, surely indicate he is one of the Government Haters, spewing about hidden communist take overs, and which, let's face it, we know which side of the coin, they come from.

IMO, free speech is important, but what I have witnessed is very close to yelling FIRE, in a crowded theater....



No, it hasn't been the same, from both sides, not at all, IMHO.

G.

pooltchr
01-12-2011, 01:45 PM
That sheriff is a fool. It's coming out now that there were several occasions where people had issues with this guy, but were told by the sheriff that the mental health services people had everything under control. Also, the boy had reletives working for the local government, and he didn't want to make any waves.

Maybe, had he done his job, the guy would have had a record, and not a gun!!

Why am I not surprised that you would come out in support of this nut job, who is so busy making himself a public fool? Maybe, he should be doing his freaking job!

But then, I'm not surprised you would like a nut job!

Steve

sack316
01-12-2011, 03:35 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You make some very good points, Sack, but I can't agree that Democratics, to the same degree as the radical right wing, the Tea party types, used guns and killing rhetoric the same way, nor to the same degree.</div></div>

I've seen examples from both sides that are equally as extreme. There seems to be far less outcry and airtime for leftist rantings such as the ones described. This is just my perception, though and may or may not be accurate. Unfortunately I don't think there is hard data or statistics out there to bolster my point... but again this is just my opinion based on what I watch/listen to/read.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Obviously, when the FBI, AND organizations like The southern Poverty Law Center, and MNY OTHERS, warned, for over two years, that there was a growing, very dangerous, threatening RW mood of violence, in our society, they have a reason, to say so.</div></div>

Fair enough. There's also a reason to warn of a growing and dangerous faction of home grown terrorism. We don't get to talk too much about that in fear of not being PC. And rightly so, because the small percentage of Muslims here that are of the fringe extremist variety do not warrant a large enough portion to demonize a whole group. Unfortunately the same precautions seem to not apply when speaking of those with a right wing ideology. Because of a few extreme examples and some idiots, the perception is that every righty is toting a gun ready to fire at will to take down the government. I'm sure most of us intelligent folk realize this is far from the case.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, I didn't hear the kind of vicious attacks against Bush, during his first campaign, not until he started to ignore Congressional Law, Treaties, and the Constitution, by using signing statements, breaking laws, failing to equip nour troops, people learned that he had lied about the Iraq threat. </div></div>

Honestly, I cannot remember to say with certainty what the words were like during his first campaign. So you may well be right. But even you seem to acknowledge here how the hammer did come down on him later. We know where that hammer came from. And now those same people are rallying against the firestorm climate they created. They made it "OK" and commonplace to speak that way (truth be told, I'm ok with it too... in terms of speaking passionately about one's beliefs anyway).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd say, there is quite a difference, also, between Olbermann, and Beck, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, a vast difference, in fact...and also Olbermann's presentation of his "Worst Person In The World" is presented in a very obvious "tongue in cheek" manner,</div></div>

Perhaps so. But this is one of the things I've seen experts on MSNBC talk about exactly! How someone with mental problems will not see the tongue in cheek aspect of it, that it simply doesn't register to them in their mental state. It sticks in their minds as "real" and very literal, and even in joking form can be just as damaging and influential as anything else.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Palin has been demonizing this president, the first lady, McCain's Campaign folks, katie Couric, you name it, she's done it, and never apologized for any of it.... </div></div>

And she has been demonized several times over as well. I don't like her personally, but why is it ok to Palin-bash but not ok for Palin to do the bashing? this is also a good example of the other side of your earlier comment, too... the bashing happened on the campaign trail to her as well.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IMO, the sheriff in Az, and Gifford's father, are the only people who had the nerve to fully address the misguided actions, and statements, from the right, which neither you, nor I know fully, to what degree, sick people, like this guy, are ginned up enough to take action. His own words, surely indicate he is one of the Government Haters, spewing about hidden communist take overs, and which, let's face it, we know which side of the coin, they come from.</div></div>

He also believes 9-11 was a government conspiracy. We know which side of the coin that comes from. But, as you said, none of us really know yet. It's all speculation, it's all people from both sides USING this tragedy without really knowing what is up.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IMO, free speech is important, but what I have witnessed is very close to yelling FIRE, in a crowded theater....</div></div>

Indeed. But also, it is OK to yell "fire" in a theater when the theater is actually on fire /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif Some people believe it is, or at least believe there are some dry papers sitting too close to the projector lamp. They have a right to give their own opinion of whether this is the case or not. Just as others have the right to call them stupid for believing so. And all should have the ability to do so without fear of themselves being dragged through the mud due to some idiots own personal actions. We should be able to have fiery, passionate thoughts we can express. We should also not conclude that Target is to blame if I shoot up a town just because I went to their store locator and found the Target symbol on it. Even you must admit that is pretty silly.

Sack

Gayle in MD
01-12-2011, 04:36 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You make some very good points, Sack, but I can't agree that Democratics, to the same degree as the radical right wing, the Tea party types, used guns and killing rhetoric the same way, nor to the same degree.</div></div>

I've seen examples from both sides that are equally as extreme. There seems to be far less outcry and airtime for leftist rantings such as the ones described. This is just my perception, though and may or may not be accurate. Unfortunately I don't think there is hard data or statistics out there to bolster my point... but again this is just my opinion based on what I watch/listen to/read.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Obviously, when the FBI, AND organizations like The southern Poverty Law Center, and MNY OTHERS, warned, for over two years, that there was a growing, very dangerous, threatening RW mood of violence, in our society, they have a reason, to say so.</div></div>

Fair enough. There's also a reason to warn of a growing and dangerous faction of home grown terrorism.

<span style="color: #CC0000"> Let's just stick to one subject at a time. </span>

We don't get to talk too much about that in fear of not being PC.

<span style="color: #CC0000"> I don't know who "We" indicates, but I don't see the Rw pundits, nor the Tea party radicals, holding back on much of anything/ </span>

And rightly so, because the small percentage of Muslims here that are of the fringe extremist variety do not warrant a large enough portion to demonize a whole group. Unfortunately the same precautions seem to not apply when speaking of those with a right wing ideology.
<span style="color: #990000"> I think I have clearly been referring to the RADICAL RW Republican element, and the RADICAL Tea Party folks, which I have seen up close and personal. Also, I don't know anyone who thinks that Gloenn Beck, and Limbaugh, are not on the radical side. </span>

Because of a few extreme examples and some idiots, the perception is that every righty is toting a gun ready to fire at will to take down the government. I'm sure most of us intelligent folk realize this is far from the case.

<span style="color: #CC0000"> The connection cannot be denied between all of the fear that we will get some limits on these horribloe assault weapons, and ammo, and the Republican Party.

Just as it is impossible to disconnect their policies which protect pollution, and gay bashing. </span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, I didn't hear the kind of vicious attacks against Bush, during his first campaign, not until he started to ignore Congressional Law, Treaties, and the Constitution, by using signing statements, breaking laws, failing to equip nour troops, people learned that he had lied about the Iraq threat. </div></div>

Honestly, I cannot remember to say with certainty what the words were like during his first campaign. So you may well be right. But even you seem to acknowledge here how the hammer did come down on him later.

<span style="color: #990000"> Yes, and deservedly so. His transgressions were unprecedented. </span>

We know where that hammer came from. And now those same people are rallying against the firestorm climate they created.

<span style="color: #CC0000"> I don't agree with that, at all. Bush had the lowest, or next to the lowest approval ratings when he left office, of any president.

There were people from the right, left and center, who were down on Bush, even before he dropped the crash on us, so it's not really accurate to suggest the current President, who, BTW, enjoys higher ratings than Reagan did, at this same amount of time in office, Obama with a 52 to 60 percent approval rating, higher than Reagans, did I mention that, LOL(and Reagan, had higher unemployment rates, BTW) so don't suggest that the country is in remorse over their support for president Obama, they aren't.</span>


They made it "OK" and commonplace to speak that way (truth be told, I'm ok with it too... in terms of speaking passionately about one's beliefs anyway).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd say, there is quite a difference, also, between Olbermann, and Beck, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, a vast difference, in fact...and also Olbermann's presentation of his "Worst Person In The World" is presented in a very obvious "tongue in cheek" manner,</div></div>

Perhaps so. But this is one of the things I've seen experts on MSNBC talk about exactly! How someone with mental problems will not see the tongue in cheek aspect of it, that it simply doesn't register to them in their mental state. It sticks in their minds as "real" and very literal, and even in joking form can be just as damaging and influential as anything else.

<span style="color: #990000"> Come on, Sack. Olbermann is no where near as radical as Beck, O'Reilly, annd Limbaugh. He would never incite people with that kind of rhetoric. No shooting references, no annie Get Your gun, and go shoot all the Democratics, who win! kind of talok, like Angle, Palin, and a number of other Republican contenders. </span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Palin has been demonizing this president, the first lady, McCain's Campaign folks, katie Couric, you name it, she's done it, and never apologized for any of it.... </div></div>

And she has been demonized several times over as well. I don't like her personally, but why is it ok to Palin-bash but not ok for Palin to do the bashing? this is also a good example of the other side of your earlier comment, too... the bashing happened on the campaign trail to her as well.

<span style="color: #CC0000"> It happened to her because she was obviously stupid, and not rational, and she is stiloll proving that every time she opens up her mouth, and proved it again, today.

She was absolutely repulsive, today. Have you seen it??? It was all about SARA, as usual! </span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IMO, the sheriff in Az, and Gifford's father, are the only people who had the nerve to fully address the misguided actions, and statements, from the right, which neither you, nor I know fully, to what degree, sick people, like this guy, are ginned up enough to take action. His own words, surely indicate he is one of the Government Haters, spewing about hidden communist take overs, and which, let's face it, we know which side of the coin, they come from.</div></div>

He also believes 9-11 was a government conspiracy.

<span style="color: #990000"> Who does? </span>

We know which side of the coin that comes from. But, as you said, none of us really know yet. It's all speculation, it's all people from both sides USING this tragedy without really knowing what is up.

<span style="color: #990000">Not at all. People grieve, and then ask why. We alol watched this growing radical RW threat, grow. We have all read about how alarmed the FBI, and other experts, have been, about the radical right. It is NOT my imagination, nor my Partisanship. It happened. it exists. It isn't just rhetoric, it is a phenomenon which exsits, AND it surely needs to be brought to the forefront, studied further, and FIXED. </span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IMO, free speech is important, but what I have witnessed is very close to yelling FIRE, in a crowded theater....</div></div>

Indeed. But also, it is OK to yell "fire" in a theater when the theater is actually on fire /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif Some people believe it is, or at least believe there are some dry papers sitting too close to the projector lamp. They have a right to give their own opinion of whether this is the case or not. Just as others have the right to call them stupid for believing so. And all should have the ability to do so without fear of themselves being dragged through the mud due to some idiots own personal actions. We should be able to have fiery, passionate thoughts we can express. We should also not conclude that Target is to blame if I shoot up a town just because I went to their store locator and found the Target symbol on it. Even you must admit that is pretty silly.

Sack </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Even you must admit that is pretty silly.

</div></div>

Even me? Exactly whhat do you mean bby that?

I think people have a right to be ableto go to the damned grocery store, or a political event, without being subjected to a bunch of radical people, who think it is fine, to strap their assault weapons to their bodies, and wear them our in public, whith enough bullets to kill twenty people in twelve seconds.

I also think people who NEED to do such things, are sick in the head. And those who defend it, are pretty close to being just as sick.

G.

LWW
01-12-2011, 05:11 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think people have a right to be ableto go to the damned grocery store, or a political event, without being subjected to a bunch of radical people, who think it is fine, to strap their assault weapons to their bodies, and wear them our in public, whith enough bullets to kill twenty people in twelve seconds.

I also think people who NEED to do such things, are sick in the head. And those who defend it, are pretty close to being just as sick.

G.

</div></div>

1 - Yes, they are sick in the head.

2 - If the democrook sheriff hadn't so completely incompetent the shooter would:

2A - Have a criminal record.

2B - Been unable to legally buy the weapon.

2C - Possibly alrady been jailed for his crimes committed earlier.

2D - Not be facing a death penalty charge.

Your beloved state failed the victims, your beloved party was responsible for law enforcement, and you simply cannot deal with the simple truth of the matter.

IOW ... everything here is as it always is, Gee pointing the blame everywhere except where it belongs.

LWW

sack316
01-12-2011, 05:15 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let's just stick to one subject at a time. </div></div>

That is part of the subject. We take great care to not offend certain groups, but no worries at all about another. My example of Muslims that I used applies perfectly. We, as a nation, don't want to offend them (rightly so) and as well don't want to cause a panic and forms of violence or discrimination against the group any more than already occurs. We do not provide that same protection and consideration for some other groups, though.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think I have clearly been referring to the RADICAL RW Republican element, and the RADICAL Tea Party folks, which I have seen up close and personal. Also, I don't know anyone who thinks that Gloenn Beck, and Limbaugh, are not on the radical side. </div></div>

Thank you for making that distinction. Not many are (admittedly from both the right and the left).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, and deservedly so. His transgressions were unprecedented....
I don't agree with that, at all. Bush had the lowest, or next to the lowest approval ratings when he left office, of any president.

There were people from the right, left and center, who were down on Bush, even before he dropped the crash on us, so it's not really accurate to suggest the current President, who, BTW, enjoys higher ratings than Reagan did, at this same amount of time in office, Obama with a 52 to 60 percent approval rating, higher than Reagans, did I mention that, LOL(and Reagan, had higher unemployment rates, BTW) so don't suggest that the country is in remorse over their support for president Obama, they aren't. </div></div>

So if someone is unpopular or disliked, the hate filled and provocative rhetoric is acceptable then? I don't think you believe that. Criticism? Sure, that's fine and go right ahead when it is deserved. But being inflammatory is still being inflammatory whether the subject's approval rating is 100% or zero.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Come on, Sack. Olbermann is no where near as radical as Beck, O'Reilly, annd Limbaugh. He would never incite people with that kind of rhetoric. No shooting references, no annie Get Your gun, and go shoot all the Democratics, who win! kind of talok, like Angle, Palin, and a number of other Republican contenders. </div></div>

Puhleeze... I recall some of his special comments in relation to McCain as well as others. But especially some on McCain that were particularly distasteful. O'Donnell is the only one over there with a lick of sense and decency.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It happened to her because she was obviously stupid, and not rational, and she is stiloll proving that every time she opens up her mouth, and proved it again, today.</div></div>

So again, as long as it's certain people and if you feel they somehow deserve it, then hateful and inflammatory rhetoric is acceptable?

I swear it sounds like the bully in the principle's office office justifying beating up some kid because "he got on everyone's nerves, so he deserved it".

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">She was absolutely repulsive, today. Have you seen it??? It was all about SARA, as usual! </div></div>

I've watched the left spend the last two days talking about how bad she is for not getting out there and commenting on it. Now that she does, she's bad for doing that too.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who does? (your question to who believes 9-11 conspiracy)</div></div>

The shooter. It's in an article I posted in another thread yesterday. He believes GWB was behind the attack.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I also think people who NEED to do such things, are sick in the head. And those who defend it, are pretty close to being just as sick.</div></div>

I feel the same. I've never owned or shot a gun in my life. I always say if I get myself in a situation where I can't defend myself with my hands and brain then I deserve whatever I get.

Sack

Sev
01-12-2011, 05:35 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You make some very good points, Sack, but I can't agree that Democratics, to the same degree as the radical right wing, the Tea party types, used guns and killing rhetoric the same way, nor to the same degree.</div></div>

I've seen examples from both sides that are equally as extreme. There seems to be far less outcry and airtime for leftist rantings such as the ones described. This is just my perception, though and may or may not be accurate. Unfortunately I don't think there is hard data or statistics out there to bolster my point... but again this is just my opinion based on what I watch/listen to/read.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Obviously, when the FBI, AND organizations like The southern Poverty Law Center, and MNY OTHERS, warned, for over two years, that there was a growing, very dangerous, threatening RW mood of violence, in our society, they have a reason, to say so.</div></div>

Fair enough. There's also a reason to warn of a growing and dangerous faction of home grown terrorism.

<span style="color: #CC0000"> Let's just stick to one subject at a time. </span>

We don't get to talk too much about that in fear of not being PC.

<span style="color: #CC0000"> I don't know who "We" indicates, but I don't see the Rw pundits, nor the Tea party radicals, holding back on much of anything/ </span>

And rightly so, because the small percentage of Muslims here that are of the fringe extremist variety do not warrant a large enough portion to demonize a whole group. Unfortunately the same precautions seem to not apply when speaking of those with a right wing ideology.
<span style="color: #990000"> I think I have clearly been referring to the RADICAL RW Republican element, and the RADICAL Tea Party folks, which I have seen up close and personal. Also, I don't know anyone who thinks that Gloenn Beck, and Limbaugh, are not on the radical side. </span>

Because of a few extreme examples and some idiots, the perception is that every righty is toting a gun ready to fire at will to take down the government. I'm sure most of us intelligent folk realize this is far from the case.

<span style="color: #CC0000"> The connection cannot be denied between all of the fear that we will get some limits on these horribloe assault weapons, and ammo, and the Republican Party.

Just as it is impossible to disconnect their policies which protect pollution, and gay bashing. </span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, I didn't hear the kind of vicious attacks against Bush, during his first campaign, not until he started to ignore Congressional Law, Treaties, and the Constitution, by using signing statements, breaking laws, failing to equip nour troops, people learned that he had lied about the Iraq threat. </div></div>

Honestly, I cannot remember to say with certainty what the words were like during his first campaign. So you may well be right. But even you seem to acknowledge here how the hammer did come down on him later.

<span style="color: #990000"> Yes, and deservedly so. His transgressions were unprecedented. </span>

We know where that hammer came from. And now those same people are rallying against the firestorm climate they created.

<span style="color: #CC0000"> I don't agree with that, at all. Bush had the lowest, or next to the lowest approval ratings when he left office, of any president.

There were people from the right, left and center, who were down on Bush, even before he dropped the crash on us, so it's not really accurate to suggest the current President, who, BTW, enjoys higher ratings than Reagan did, at this same amount of time in office, Obama with a 52 to 60 percent approval rating, higher than Reagans, did I mention that, LOL(and Reagan, had higher unemployment rates, BTW) so don't suggest that the country is in remorse over their support for president Obama, they aren't.</span>


They made it "OK" and commonplace to speak that way (truth be told, I'm ok with it too... in terms of speaking passionately about one's beliefs anyway).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd say, there is quite a difference, also, between Olbermann, and Beck, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, a vast difference, in fact...and also Olbermann's presentation of his "Worst Person In The World" is presented in a very obvious "tongue in cheek" manner,</div></div>

Perhaps so. But this is one of the things I've seen experts on MSNBC talk about exactly! How someone with mental problems will not see the tongue in cheek aspect of it, that it simply doesn't register to them in their mental state. It sticks in their minds as "real" and very literal, and even in joking form can be just as damaging and influential as anything else.

<span style="color: #990000"> Come on, Sack. Olbermann is no where near as radical as Beck, O'Reilly, annd Limbaugh. He would never incite people with that kind of rhetoric. No shooting references, no annie Get Your gun, and go shoot all the Democratics, who win! kind of talok, like Angle, Palin, and a number of other Republican contenders. </span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Palin has been demonizing this president, the first lady, McCain's Campaign folks, katie Couric, you name it, she's done it, and never apologized for any of it.... </div></div>

And she has been demonized several times over as well. I don't like her personally, but why is it ok to Palin-bash but not ok for Palin to do the bashing? this is also a good example of the other side of your earlier comment, too... the bashing happened on the campaign trail to her as well.

<span style="color: #CC0000"> It happened to her because she was obviously stupid, and not rational, and she is stiloll proving that every time she opens up her mouth, and proved it again, today.

She was absolutely repulsive, today. Have you seen it??? It was all about SARA, as usual! </span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IMO, the sheriff in Az, and Gifford's father, are the only people who had the nerve to fully address the misguided actions, and statements, from the right, which neither you, nor I know fully, to what degree, sick people, like this guy, are ginned up enough to take action. His own words, surely indicate he is one of the Government Haters, spewing about hidden communist take overs, and which, let's face it, we know which side of the coin, they come from.</div></div>

He also believes 9-11 was a government conspiracy.

<span style="color: #990000"> Who does? </span>

We know which side of the coin that comes from. But, as you said, none of us really know yet. It's all speculation, it's all people from both sides USING this tragedy without really knowing what is up.

<span style="color: #990000">Not at all. People grieve, and then ask why. We alol watched this growing radical RW threat, grow. We have all read about how alarmed the FBI, and other experts, have been, about the radical right. It is NOT my imagination, nor my Partisanship. It happened. it exists. It isn't just rhetoric, it is a phenomenon which exsits, AND it surely needs to be brought to the forefront, studied further, and FIXED. </span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IMO, free speech is important, but what I have witnessed is very close to yelling FIRE, in a crowded theater....</div></div>

Indeed. But also, it is OK to yell "fire" in a theater when the theater is actually on fire /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif Some people believe it is, or at least believe there are some dry papers sitting too close to the projector lamp. They have a right to give their own opinion of whether this is the case or not. Just as others have the right to call them stupid for believing so. And all should have the ability to do so without fear of themselves being dragged through the mud due to some idiots own personal actions. We should be able to have fiery, passionate thoughts we can express. We should also not conclude that Target is to blame if I shoot up a town just because I went to their store locator and found the Target symbol on it. Even you must admit that is pretty silly.

Sack </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Even you must admit that is pretty silly.

</div></div>

Even me? Exactly whhat do you mean bby that?

I think people have a right to be ableto go to the damned grocery store, or a political event, without being subjected to a bunch of radical people, who think it is fine, to strap their assault weapons to their bodies, and wear them our in public, whith enough bullets to kill twenty people in twelve seconds.

I also think people who NEED to do such things, are sick in the head. And those who defend it, are pretty close to being just as sick.

G.

</div></div>

Where does hate well up from???

Perhaps abject fear of that which is beyond ones control?

LWW
01-13-2011, 03:58 AM
I think you are on target.

LWW

Sev
01-13-2011, 07:33 AM
Perhaps x-ring material.

LWW
01-13-2011, 05:08 PM
Right between the eyes.

LWW

Sev
01-13-2011, 07:51 PM
Ahh the old bullseye.