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LWW
01-12-2011, 09:50 AM
Sheriff Dupnik has blood on his hands?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-size: 11pt'>This is the report that Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik has been dreading since the tragic event on Saturday January 8.</span>

The sheriff has been editorializing and politicizing the event since he took the podium to report on the incident. <span style='font-size: 14pt'>His blaming of radio personalities and bloggers is a pre-emptive strike because Mr. Dupnik knows this tragedy lays at his feet and his office. Six people died on his watch and he could have prevented it.</span> He needs to step up and start apologizing to the families of the victims instead of spinning this event to serve his own political agenda.

Jared Loughner, pronounced by the Sheriff as Lock-ner, saying it was the Polish pronunciation. Of course he meant Scott or Irish but that isn’t the point. The point is he and his office have had previous contact with the alleged assailant in the past and that is how he knows how to pronounce the name.

<span style='font-size: 17pt'>Jared Loughner has been making death threats by phone to many people in Pima County including staff of Pima Community College, radio personalities and local bloggers. When Pima County Sheriff’s Office was informed, his deputies assured the victims that he was being well managed by the mental health system. It was also suggested that further pressing of charges would be unnecessary and probably cause more problems than it solved</span> as Jared Loughner has a family member that works for Pima County. Amy Loughner is a Natural Resource specialist for the Pima County Parks and Recreation. My sympathies and my heart goes out to her and the rest of Mr. Loughner’s family. This tragedy must be tearing them up inside wondering if they had done the right things in trying to manage Jared’s obvious mental instability.

<span style='font-size: 11pt'>Every victim of his threats previously must also be wondering if this tragedy could have been prevented if they had been more aggressive in pursuing charges against Mr. Loughner. Perhaps with a felony conviction he would never have been able to lawfully by the Glock 9mm Model 19 that he used to strike down the lives of six people and decimate 14 more.</span>

This was not an act of politics. This was an act of a mentally disturbed young man hell bent on getting his 15 minutes of infamy. The Pima County Sheriff’s Department was aware of his violent nature and they failed to act appropriately. This tragedy leads right back to Sherriff Dupnik and all the spin in the world is not going to change that fact.</div></div>

The people threatened WARNED (http://thechollajumps.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/jared-loughner-is-a-product-of-sheriff-dupniks-office/) there would be consequences.

LWW

Sev
01-12-2011, 10:28 AM
I suspect this is the next move.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t278/Sevelli/e4668fad.jpg

LWW
01-12-2011, 10:44 AM
It's already started.

LWW

pooltchr
01-12-2011, 12:02 PM
They won't even consider the facts. They are much more comfortable blaming Palin and Limbaugh.

Funny thing I heard on the radio today....one of the guy's friends said he didn't even listen to talk radio.

ABC reported it, but they buried it way down (12 paragraphs) in a story on the subject.

Steve

Sev
01-12-2011, 05:41 PM
I think depression may set in. Suicide watch for the left may be a given.

LWW
01-13-2011, 04:10 AM
It appears that you aim to be on target with these issues.

LWW

Sev
01-13-2011, 07:35 AM
Its good tracking that leads to a successful hunt.

LWW
01-13-2011, 05:08 PM
I love a straight shooter.

LWW

Sev
01-13-2011, 07:55 PM
Nothing quite like sharp shooter drawing a fine bead.

Soflasnapper
01-13-2011, 08:21 PM
LWW, as you may know, since it was discussed on the blog you cite in the comments, there is no evidence available for any of these claims. Not even to the author.

The author, who is some kind of political activist, admitted that he relied on hearsay claims of persons remaining anonymous saying they have the evidence, but who would not show him the evidence.

I do not know this author, or his political activism leanings. NOBODY knows what evidence may exist to substantiate these claims, not even the author.

I like rumors, and may even sometimes traffic in them, but I should think the fact that it IS but a rumor ought to be mentioned, instead of portraying a rumor as locked down fact.

Your mileage may vary.

Sev
01-13-2011, 08:38 PM
Actually the sheriff admitted that Jared was quite well know to them.

LWW
01-14-2011, 02:11 AM
1 - You would have some cred if you called out the left for making baseless links to Palin/Beck/Limbaugh.

2 - You didn't, so you don't/

3 - The police reports ... now released ... paint a picture worse than the one you were denying.

LWW

LWW
01-14-2011, 02:14 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LWW, as you may know, since it was discussed on the blog you cite in the comments, there is no evidence available for any of these claims. Not even to the author.</div></div>

Except for the New York Times: (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/12/us/12loughner.html?_r=1)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TUCSON — The police were sent to the home where Jared L. Loughner lived with his family on more than one occasion before the attack here on Saturday that left a congresswoman fighting for her life and six others dead, the Pima County Sheriff’s Department said on Tuesday. </div></div>


LWW

LWW
01-14-2011, 02:17 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LWW, as you may know, since it was discussed on the blog you cite in the comments, there is no evidence available for any of these claims. Not even to the author.</div></div>

And Sheriff Dupnik on NPR: (http://www.npr.org/2011/01/09/132780313/sheriff-accused-shooter-unhinged-made-threats)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"As we understand it, there have been law enforcement contacts with the individual where he made threats to kill," Dupnik said during a press conference Saturday evening. </div></div>

LWW

Qtec
01-14-2011, 04:06 AM
link (http://www.dailykos.com/tv/w/002095/)

Here is another lunatic who wasn't arrested for making death threats.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Beck flashback: I want to kill Charlie Rangel with a shovel </div></div>

First you say the guy is nuts and nobody is to blame, now you blame the Sheriff!


Q

LWW
01-14-2011, 04:20 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> link (http://www.dailykos.com/tv/w/002095/)

Here is another lunatic who wasn't arrested for making death threats.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Beck flashback: I want to kill Charlie Rangel with a shovel </div></div>

First you say the guy is nuts and nobody is to blame, now you blame the Sheriff!


Q </div></div>

I never said that at all.

I said the shooter is to blame for his actions.

I also said the sheriff is guilty for his inactions.

LWW

Sev
01-14-2011, 07:15 AM
Its all just big misunderstanding. Cant we all Just get along???

Soflasnapper
01-16-2011, 08:18 PM
[bump]

So, has there been any disclosure of any evidence of this yet? I'd like to hear of it from the supreme monitor of all these backwater rumor sites. LWW?

Soflasnapper
01-16-2011, 09:24 PM
Except for the New York Times: (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/12/us/12loughner.html?_r=1)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TUCSON — The police were sent to the home where Jared L. Loughner lived with his family on more than one occasion before the attack here on Saturday that left a congresswoman fighting for her life and six others dead, the Pima County Sheriff’s Department said on Tuesday. </div></div>

LWW [/quote]

LWW, thank you for that link, but you may want to review and/or update your reading skills.

What does the Times piece you link to say within the first handful of paragraphs?

"A spokesman, Jason Ogan, said the details of the calls were being reviewed by legal counsel and would be released as soon as the review was complete. He said he did not know what the calls were about — they could possibly have been minor, even trivial matters — or whether they involved Jared Loughner or another member of the household.

[...]

The news of police involvement with the Loughners suggests that county sheriff’s deputies were at least familiar with the family, even if the reason for their visits was unclear as of Tuesday night."

This does not support the claim that you made with your first citation, that the Sheriff's office KNEW (damnit!) that he had made multiple DEATH THREATS, which had been ignored.

Frankly, it isn't entirely clear whether these visits were made by THE TUCSON POLICE or the Pima County Sheriff Office's DEPUTIES (both of which exist and are separate organizations). The bare language hints we have (they use the word 'police,' not 'deputies') supports the former more than the latter.

Just as the Sheriff's comments do NOT indicate whether he learned of threats PRIOR to this event, or afterwards (his remarks would be consistent with the latter possibility as well as the former), not to mention whether he learned of these threats FROM THE TUSCON POLICE FORCE (over which he has no authority nor from which does he necessarily receive shared intelligence in near-real time).

LWW
01-17-2011, 01:05 AM
Why do you insist upon discussing things dishonestly?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jan 8 (Reuters) - The suspect in Saturday's shooting rampage in which a U.S. congresswoman was critically wounded was unstable and had been known to make death threats in the past, the local sheriff said.

The FBI is investigating whether the man is the same person who posted a rambling Internet manifesto accusing the government of mind control and demanding a new currency.

Jared Lee Loughner, 22, of Tucson, was taken into custody moments after the shooting at a political meeting held by Democratic Representative Gabrielle Giffords in a supermarket parking lot. Six people died and Giffords had a critical head wound.

Sheriff Clarence Dupnik of Pima County, where the shooting happened, told reporters the suspect had a troubled past. "All I can tell you is that this person may have a mental issue," Dupnik said.

[<span style='font-size: 14pt'>b]Dupnik said there had been earlier contact between Loughner and law enforcement after he had made death threats[/b]</span> </div></div>

This is common knowledge to anyone who uses any news source other that Moonbats Spouting Nothing But Crap and PuffingonaPost.

I used the reich wing source REUTERS (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN0824904120110109) for you.

LWW

Sev
01-17-2011, 09:37 AM
Its called pin the tale on the right.

Soflasnapper
01-17-2011, 01:30 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why do you insist upon discussing things dishonestly?

[...]

Sheriff Clarence Dupnik of Pima County, where the shooting happened, told reporters the suspect had a troubled past. "All I can tell you is that this person may have a mental issue," Dupnik said.

[<span style='font-size: 14pt'>b]Dupnik said there had been earlier contact between Loughner and law enforcement after he had made death threats[/b]</span> </div></div>

----------

"[D]ishonestly" = carefully.

Why do you insist upon jumping to conclusions not in evidence? Do you not see the gap between what you claimed and what is known?

Maybe your take is likely, but it is far from confirmed at this time.

IF these visits were from Tucson police, not the sheriff's office, it would be just as true that "law enforcement" contact was made with Loughner. That the sheriff did NOT say 'contact with my office' or 'department deputies' leaves open the possibility that these 'contacts' were by Tucson police. (Which would ruin the point of the unsourced and evidence-less rumors you posted, would it not?)

Likewise, WHEN the sheriff gained awareness of these 'contacts' after 'death threats' is also still an open question. "Known" BY WHOM? "Known" by the sheriff, WHEN? Nothing in the record shows HIS prior knowledge-- you're merely assuming that if he admits (now) that he knows it happened (in the aftermath of the event and a review process), he also knew it happened at the time, before the event.

Well, perhaps, of course, but perhaps not as well. I don't know how many deputies he has under his command in the field, but do you really think the results of non-arrests are thoroughly reviewed and sent up to the top guy? Or that deputies don't make their own decisions on whether to arrest, but phone everything in to their boss to decide?

Maybe they are, and they don't, but I doubt it. If every decision to arrest or not had to go to the sheriff for review, it would make for an impossible situation in the field, and likewise, a blizzard of paperwork if it was an after-the-fact review for all non-arrests.

LWW
01-17-2011, 05:36 PM
You are a trip dude.

LWW

Sev
01-18-2011, 06:49 AM
Its all going to come out in the wash. No matter what it is not going to reflect well on the performance of the police department. That is just the nature of these things. The game of "if" can never be won.

LWW
01-18-2011, 11:14 AM
Just because the sheriff's department knew he made death threats doesn't mean the sheriff's department knew he made death threats.

LWW

Sev
01-18-2011, 02:11 PM
Funny how that works.

Soflasnapper
01-18-2011, 09:53 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just because the sheriff's department knew he made death threats doesn't mean the sheriff's department knew he made death threats.

LWW </div></div>

Try this one on for size.

The American people KNEW Clinton admitted to some sort of tawdry, disgraceful, unpresidential affair with Lewinsky. WHY DID THEY ELECT HIM, THEN?

Uh, because they found out only after that fact? (ding-ding-ding, and we have our winner!)

Now, the sequel:

The sheriff KNEW that Loughner made death threats. WHY DIDN'T HE STOP HIM BEFORE THIS TRAGEDY? Well, when did he learn of that particular fact? Could it be that he only learned of it after the shootings, upon review and possible consultation with Tucson police?

You say no, referring to the NY Times which said 'police' had visited the home because of calls, but which also says it isn't known what the nature of the calls to come to the house were about, or even that any or all were about Loughner. It did not report that any of these calls related to death threats, and rather said the nature of the calls was unknown.

You also say no, referring to the blog of a 'political activist' who admits he won't say who told him, and that they wouldn't show him the documentary evidence they claimed to have (which is then hearsay, twice removed, of no probative value).

When I point out the lacunae in your position, you flounder around and say I'm discussing this dishonestly. (mirror time)

LWW
01-19-2011, 02:17 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The sheriff KNEW that Loughner made death threats. WHY DIDN'T HE STOP HIM BEFORE THIS TRAGEDY? Well, when did he learn of that particular fact? Could it be that he only learned of it after the shootings</div></div>

Well, now that you mention it, no.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jared Loughner has been making death threats by phone to many people in Pima County including staff of Pima Community College, radio personalities and local bloggers.<span style='font-size: 11pt'> When Pima County Sheriff’s Office was informed, his deputies assured the victims that he was being well managed by the mental health system.</span> </div></div>

LWW

Sev
01-19-2011, 06:42 AM
well it appears somebody knew.

Soflasnapper
01-19-2011, 12:40 PM
Jared Loughner has been making death threats by phone to many people in Pima County including staff of Pima Community College, radio personalities and local bloggers. When Pima County Sheriff’s Office was informed, his deputies assured the victims that he was being well managed by the mental health system.

Ok, NOW WE'RE TALKING!

Finally, you may have gotten something close enough to support your thesis here (although without a link, I cannot gauge the reliability of this report-- would you please provide it?).

Although I must say it is a change of claim, since I understood you to say the deputies would have known this themselves by responding to calls to the house. Now, they were allegedly informed by others and did not know it themselves? Or is it both, in your view?

I'll also mention that this does not quite place this knowledge up to the level of the sheriff on this evidence, although it's becoming more and more likely, of course.

Soflasnapper
01-19-2011, 01:06 PM
Ok, now we are NOT talking, and are back to the same original blogger's allegations, right?

Searching on 'Jared Loughner death threats' got me links with people quoting Halla in the rightie echo chamber you're obviously hooked into.

So here's a question on one of these linked threads I copied:

"Who are these people that Loughner allegedly threatened and why are they remaining quiet? (Bloggers and talk show hosts are not known for their ability to keep quiet.)

Something is fishy here. I’ll need substantial confirmation."

Uh huh, yeah buddy.

THE MAN IS IN CUSTODY AND ISN'T GETTING OUT. These people cannot fear him now. Who are they, and where have any of them confirmed these claims?

Fact is, now Sarah and the TeaParty are being heavily damaged by this event, deservedly or not doesn't matter. People don't think critically, and Palin and TP unfavorables are increasing.

There has been a huge investment by the plutocratic right in these brands, and it is being gravely threatened and tarnished.

Could this Halla report, to date uncorroborated and admittedly without any primary evidence shown or known to the blogger, be a back channel disinformation effort to save the huge investment the right has made in these brands? At least to their own side?

I hope we can agree that if these claims of death threats are true to this degree, we will certainly see these people come forward or have the various threats they experienced detailed in the public domain?

Otherwise, the death threat being discussed might be the (veiled) 'genocide threat' of the YouTube video, which has been reported as the cause of Loughner's expulsion from college.

LWW
01-19-2011, 04:21 PM
Are you aware that sheriff dipstick was on CNN and admitted to being an idiot?

LWW

Soflasnapper
01-19-2011, 06:33 PM
He's 75 years old I hear.

Sev
01-19-2011, 06:47 PM
Age discrimination??? Is that what I am seeing being suggested???

LWW
01-20-2011, 03:47 AM
And?

LWW

Sev
01-20-2011, 06:55 AM
Perhaps he is suggesting the sheriff doesnt have all his faculties in tact??

Soflasnapper
01-20-2011, 10:46 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Perhaps he is suggesting the sheriff doesnt have all his faculties in tact??
</div></div>

Yes.

BTW, anyone ever hear from anyone who received those death threats?

(chirp, chirp)

Soflasnapper
01-20-2011, 10:46 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Age discrimination??? Is that what I am seeing being suggested???
</div></div>

There is no age discrimination possible past 65, legally.

Sev
01-21-2011, 07:18 AM
Since when has legality or the lack there of have ever gotten in the way of means to the ends?

Soflasnapper
01-23-2011, 03:37 PM
One means to the end of showing LWW's original claims here are true is for some of those who were subjected to death threats to speak up and verify this indeed happened.

So far, no one has. Am I right?

[/bump]

Sev
01-23-2011, 03:45 PM
That I do not know. It seems a cone of silence has descended on that area.

Soflasnapper
02-14-2011, 11:18 PM
Since some time has now passed, any news concerning the Sheriff's alleged prior knowledge of death threats by Laughner?