PDA

View Full Version : Sexist question re: women players



Soflasnapper
01-20-2011, 07:37 PM
This may or may not be a sexist question. I start with this characterization as a warning that the question may be offensive to some.

Background: I went to the pool room on an unusual day for me (this past Monday), and found an APA match in progress. One of the players was a very 'talented' young lady. (No, not her playing, she was a 2 or a 3, despite playing carefully and strategically.) What I mean is that she wore 5 to 6 inch stiletto high heels, skin-tight leotards or something like that, a clingy sweater, and there were other things about her as well. (cough)

I thought, dog-like: damn, I should join an APA team if this is typical! Then I thought, what's up with the ladies in our league?

Well, frankly, from my admittedly cursory and only local observations over the years, our women are mainly lesbians and/or older women (not that there's anything wrong with either condition in my view, but it doesn't brighten my view either, if you see what I mean).

But what does this mean, and is it the norm you've seen or not? Does the APA attract younger women than other leagues, because of the handicap system? (running, ducking, covering, hey stop yelling at me, LOL!)

Bambu
01-20-2011, 08:21 PM
This started off as a really great post. I was getting this great visual, but lost the feeling after the background paragraph. Wtf man u killed it!

Personally, I dont notice much age difference between leagues. Seems pretty random to me. Maybe its just that florida has alot of older folks in general.

Just ask the league operator what team is really, really bad.... but has the best looking girls. And then.....

Rich R.
01-21-2011, 07:48 AM
Phil, I think the APA is more of a social league rather than a hard nose player league. That is not to say there are not some very good players in the APA. However, the social aspect of the league may draw some players over others. It depends what the player is looking for in a a league. In the end, I don't think matching a player with a league has anything to do with age or sexual orientation.

BTW, the handicap system may be a small draw for the begining or less experienced players because it allows them to compete and win against the more experienced players. It's not much fun for a less experienced player to play in a non-handicapped league and lose all of the time.

Fran Crimi
01-21-2011, 01:22 PM
I remember being young once.....sigh....However, I definitely didn't do the stiletto heel thing at the pool table. I took the game much more seriously than that. As for whether it's an APA thing, who knows? Maybe. But be careful, Phil...her boyfriend's probably not far away.

Rich R.
01-22-2011, 09:01 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fran Crimi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I remember being young once.....sigh....However, I definitely didn't do the stiletto heel thing at the pool table. I took the game much more seriously than that. As for whether it's an APA thing, who knows? Maybe. But be careful, Phil...her boyfriend's probably not far away. </div></div>
You're still young Fran. Age is not in the calendar. Age is all in the mind and in the heart, although my joints don't always agree. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cry.gif

Soflasnapper
01-24-2011, 01:26 AM
I guess the question goes to the demographics of female players more than leagues.

It's hard to claim that pool was MORE acceptable to women in the past than now, I suppose.

But the fact is, there have not been role models on the American female side of things to foster younger women's interest since the '80s and '90s. The Asians and Jasmine Ouschan are young and great champion level players, but not American.

Rich R.
01-24-2011, 06:00 AM
Phil, you have to remember, Jeanette Lee is American and everyone in the world knows Jeanette. In fact, just yesterday a contractor was at our house for a proposed project. Of course, when he saw the pool table the conversation turned to pool for a minute. Although he didn't know any other players, he did know the "Black Widow". Whether you love her or hate her, Jeannette is probably the most recognizable female pool player in the world.
In addition to Jeannette, there are many other American female players that are great role models for young players. Sarah Rousey, Jennifer Barretta, Melissa Herndon and Vivian Villarreal all come to mind. No, they are not currently at the top of the charts but they are all very strong players and good role models.

Soflasnapper
01-24-2011, 01:21 PM
Rich, I already admitted we had our share of great American women players in the '80s and '90s, and by that, I meant to reference Jeanette (among others), since those were her glory days, #1 ranking, player of the year, etc. She has been notably absent from the tv rounds and championship games since those now semi-long-ago days, however prominent and even pre-eminent as a brand.

Still, she's Korean-American, like Charlie Williams, and I wonder how many white-bread American children really can draw inspiration from Asian-Americans of this or other stripes.

The sensation of having an American be as great and dominant a champion as Allison or Karen have been is what could really inspire a younger generation of women, and we have lacked that for some decades now.

Rich R.
01-25-2011, 05:25 AM
Phil, I understand what you are saying but, in these times, with young ladies from so many countries playing in the WPBA, I'm not sure inspiration for a young American girl has to come from another American player. The WPBA is truly an international tour. Our young players can easily aspire to be as good as Jasmine or Ga Young or some other non-American player.

BTW, there are a number of very young girls playing great pool on the regional levels in this country. Maybe one of them will become the next Allison or Karen. Only time will tell.

pooltchr
01-25-2011, 07:15 AM
If you are talking about strictly American players, I don't think Allison, Karen, Gerta, Kelly, Ewa or several others would qualify. And I dare say that Allison did more to raise the visibility of pool for women than anyone in recent years. You would probably have to go back to maybe Lori Jon to find an American female that really had a sustained run at the top.

I don't think where someone is from is that big a factor. A good role model can be from anywhere.

Steve

Sev
01-26-2011, 08:58 PM
Hey Steve I think there is a lot of code in this thread. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

pooltchr
01-27-2011, 07:24 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fran Crimi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I remember being young once.....sigh....However, I definitely didn't do the stiletto heel thing at the pool table. I took the game much more seriously than that. As for whether it's an APA thing, who knows? Maybe. But be careful, Phil...her boyfriend's probably not far away. </div></div>

Fran, I frequently play in a pool room that has a lot of league activity, but is also a pretty busy Friday night date spot. And I must admit I have seen some young ladies that obviously had something other than pool on their mind when they got dressed that evening. Skirts that are little more than a wide belt, and tops that barely cover a girl's assets when she is standing up, and often fail completely when they get down on a shot. Our league players, for the most part, are much more conservative, although there are a couple who may be using their personal dress code as a sharking tool.

Times have changed since we were that age!

Steve

Bambu
01-27-2011, 08:27 AM
You should see the dress code at the predator tournament. Talk about a sharking tool, omfg. I always prey I dont have to play any of them. If it were up to me, I would enforce some kind of dress code. No tight clothes allowed, no bare skin below the neck, lol.

If not, I should be allowed to hang my own assets out, au' natural'. Even if I did, I know that would attract far less attention.

heater451
02-06-2011, 11:14 AM
Soflasnapper, of what league are you a member?

I think that it's a simple question of numbers: The APA league is simply the largest one out there, and so has the largest number of female players, and so has a shot at the largest percentage of young women. And, while most every woman likes to look attractive, the younger ones dress to the times, which good or bad, leans away from 'conservative'!

Also, consider geography. If you live in a large city, you're probably much more likely to run across women of the demographic in question.

The room where I play has both APA and TAP leagues, and the number of female players is much higher for the APA, and consequently, there there is a higher representation of young, pretty women. And, at a small room in mid-town Atlanta, where I meet with friends sometime, there is also a lot of "hotties".

In parallel, I've noticed that there are a lot of the same type of women who frequent the poker tables, now that it is popular. And that seems independent of where the location is.

justadub
02-15-2011, 09:16 AM
In our 14-team APA division, the "hotties" are outnumbered by the perhaps-used-to-be-hotties significantly. Yes, there are a few lovely young things playing, but not many.

Since I had a couple minutes, I crunched the numbers. We have 80 players, 27 female, 5 that I would consider to be attractive/hot/good-looking...and of them would definetely be in the "cougar" category! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Those are the ladies that get my attention when we're playing their teams. But none of them dresses terribly provactively, certainly not to the level the OP describes. Yes, a couple of them dress for the times, jeans being tight and tops being cut low enough that they have to pay attention when they're shooting. But if they weren't shooting pool you wouldn't think they were dressed out of the ordinary whatsoever.

Not a high percentage in our part of the world.