PDA

View Full Version : US still paying for Clinton stupidity.



LWW
01-24-2011, 10:50 AM
A little background.

I live next to the largest USAF base in existence.

Large parts of the F117 were designed locally.

I am an avid black projects and aerospace buff.

The F117 relies on both shape and materials for it's stealth. It also relies upon not being seen by the naked human eye. If you ever see one in flight, it's shape makes the plane appear much smaller than it actually is as it hides itself largely from view.

The one thing that the F117 was not designed to do was to have it's Achilles heel exposed.

That Achilles heel is flying on a clear night with a full moon.

If the bird crosses the disc of the moon it is target ready by eye better than radar could ever deliver.

We did this once ... it took a presidential order as the entire Pentagon was aware of this and protested it's use under such conditions ... and that was over Bosnia under Billy Jeff Clinton.

This resulted in the only F117 shot down in history.

What happened to the plane you ask?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">China was able to build its first stealth bomber using technology gleaned from a downed U.S. fighter, it has been claimed.
Beijing unveiled its state-of-the-art jet – the Chengdu J-20 – earlier this month.
Military officials say it is likely the Chinese were able to develop the stealth technology from parts of an American F-117 Nighthawk that was shot down over Serbia in 1999.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...l#ixzz1ByKlhFG0 (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1349906/Chengdu-J-20-China-used-downed-US-fighter-develop-stealth-jet.html#ixzz1ByKlhFG0) </div></div>

I remember the moonbat crazy left complaining that anyone would even suggest that having a draft evader as POTUS might not be a good idea ... of course they were the same people who wailed and gnashed their collectivist teeth because Bush and Quayle were reservists and not war veterans ... and today we live in a world where the crown jewel of US military tech has been squandered to a communist totalitarian state.

LWW

LWW
01-24-2011, 11:15 AM
First we had Clinton agreeing to feed NK's army when it was starving ... as long as they promised not to build a nuke.

Then we had Clinton override the Pentagon and order LORAL Corp to sell US missile targeting tech to the Chinese ... as long as they promised not to sell it to other nations. Then it ended up in NK's ICBMs.

Now, we have this mess:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">U.S. intelligence apparently failed to figure out how quickly the Chinese were developing their newest fifth generation J-20 stealth fighter, which U.S. government analysts now say was based on critical U.S. stealth technology transfers that happened while Bill Clinton was president, according to a report from Joseph Farah's G2 Bulletin. </div></div>

OH DEAR! (http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=252165)

LWW

Soflasnapper
01-24-2011, 12:16 PM
The lies take so little time to state, and the corrections, so much more time.

The fact is that the Clinton policy concerning NK worked. For the cost of providing alternate energy sources, maybe food aid (not sure of this last), NK did NOT take its weapons grade fissionable materials (plutonium) out of storage and instead kept them locked up, did NOT have a nuke, did NOT have a test explosion. All of that came from when W reneged on Clinton's deal.

We will always be paying for W's stupidity, including what Brig. Gen. William Odom, Reagan's former National Security Advisor, said was the worst strategic blunder in US history (the Iraq war).

Loral Aerospace was not ordered to, nor did they, sell US missile targeting tech to the Chinese. What happened was that we were using Chinese missiles to launch communication satellites since our capabilities no longer existed once the shuttle failed and our own missile launches failed. One Chinese launch which was ordered under a waiver by GHW Bush had a spectacular failure (losing a couple hundred million dollar satellite in the process). In the after-review, which was required by the insurers, the Chinese themselves diagnosed the problem as an issue with the welding on the shroud (payload tip) from which the satellite was launched. Loral merely CONFIRMED the analysis the Chinese had done and sent over for review, although Loral should not have faxed back that confirmation without clearing it with national security authorities first. (They reported themselves immediately, noting that problem.)

Theoretically, the exact shroud problem and fix could lead to improved abilities to deploy MIRVed warheads out of the shroud, just like the com satellite launch (although that STILL has nothing to do with targeting, just the separation phase of the warheads. And that is nothing high-tech at all, but basic engineering.)

Frankly, in the aftermath of the Cold War's ending, one new and predominant spying activity is industrial espionage. Nobody does that to us like Israel, and they've taken our top technology, which we freely transfer to them, back-engineered it, and sold it off on the world market. The Chinese got their Silkworm missile technology from Israel in this manner, the NK Scud design came from this, and now, ironically, Israel faces the menace of screaming hot Sunburst cruise missiles that travel so fast and so low that they are unstoppable. China has supplied these to Iran, from the tech transfers of US technologies from Israel.

Soflasnapper
01-24-2011, 12:30 PM
Fellow 'experts' disagree with LWW (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/military/read.main/25309/)

There are a number of reasons suggested for this shoot-down, by people very familiar with the subject. None mention LWW's theory, instead discussing that the pilot left his transponder signal on, that the F117 sorties used the same flight patterns for attacking and retreating which was discovered so a trap was set in waiting, and so forth.

If any of these are the case, then you have a reason or reasons that fully explain this event quite apart from the unsourced and likely fanciful 'explanation' offered by LWW.

LWW
01-24-2011, 02:44 PM
And you try so hard:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">F-117 damage said attributed to full moon
Date: May 6, 1999

A U.S. F-117 Stealth fighter reportedly was damaged by a Yugoslav surface-to-air missile over Serbia last Friday, but managed to return safely to its base in Germany.

The aircraft is almost invisible to radar, but may have been seen and targeted under the light of a full moon, according to United Press International, citing anonymous Pentagon officials. Another F-117 went down in Serbia on March 27, also during a full moon. </div></div>

OH DEAR! (http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=AT&p_theme=at&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0EADA4695E8E4162&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM#prof)

LWW

LWW
01-24-2011, 02:50 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Fellow 'experts' disagree with LWW (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/military/read.main/25309/)</div></div>

Oh that's just precious ... your "EXPERTS" are a bunch of airline pilots.

LWW

JohnnyD
01-24-2011, 05:23 PM
Excellent thread professor,i say excellent.

Soflasnapper
01-24-2011, 06:35 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And you try so hard:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">F-117 damage said attributed to full moon
Date: May 6, 1999

A U.S. F-117 Stealth fighter reportedly was damaged by a Yugoslav surface-to-air missile over Serbia last Friday, but managed to return safely to its base in Germany.

The aircraft is almost invisible to radar, but may have been seen and targeted under the light of a full moon, according to United Press International, citing anonymous Pentagon officials. Another F-117 went down in Serbia on March 27, also during a full moon. </div></div>

OH DEAR! (http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=AT&p_theme=at&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0EADA4695E8E4162&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM#prof)

LWW </div></div>

Good one, LWW!

So, not ENTIRELY fanciful after all.

Still unsourced, however (<u>anonymous </u>Pentagon sources say it <u>might </u>have been the reason?) and not a definitive 'this was the reason.'

As for the opposition from the brass, and the fact that this was only done ONCE you said, you've not shown the first, and your link proves the second is false.

pooltchr
01-24-2011, 06:59 PM
When has any government agency ever given a definitive answer about anything? And when they do, what are the chances they were covering something up?
(I am not a crook! I did NOT have sex with that woman")
Words like "chance" and "might" abound in Washingtonspeak. It's called CYA.

Steve

Soflasnapper
01-24-2011, 08:00 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When has any government agency ever given a definitive answer about anything? And when they do, what are the chances they were covering something up?
(I am not a crook! I did NOT have sex with that woman")
Words like "chance" and "might" abound in Washingtonspeak. It's called CYA.

Steve </div></div>

Well, the people in charge on both sides are on the record as to the cause.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> One F-117 was lost in combat with the Army of Yugoslavia. On 27 March 1999, during the Kosovo War, the 3rd Battalion of the 250th Air Defence Missile Brigade under the command of Colonel Zoltán Dani,[40] downed an F-117A, callsign "Vega 31", AF serial number 82-0806, with a Yugoslav version of the Soviet Isayev S-125 'Neva' (NATO name SA-3 'Goa') anti-aircraft missile system.[41][42] According to NATO Commander Wesley Clark and other NATO generals, Yugoslav air defenses detected F-117s by operating their radars on unusually long wavelengths, making the aircraft visible to radar for brief periods. It is also possible that the aircraft was visible due to a disruption of its radar signature caused by open bomb-bay doors. This was the justification given by Colonel Dani in a 2007 interview.[43]</div></div>

LWW
01-25-2011, 03:46 AM
Sofanapper is merely grasping at straws PT.

Military incompetence led to billions being transferred to the ChiComs.

The plane was shot down, to go deeper, because of more than the Moon:

1 - The planes were always leaving from the same base in Italy, meaning a thug with a cell phone could always tip the time of departure.

2 - For PC reasons they were continually following the same path, meaning that once the time of departure was known the ETA was simple math.

3 - The enemy had taken to firing at the F117 without using their radars assuming that this gave them a better chance ... putting a lot of metal in the air at about the time the plane(s) were likely to pass by.

4 - A silhouette against the Moon gave the perfect target for a manual shot.

No amount of jibba-jabba in defense of Billy Jeff will change any of that.

LWW