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Sev
01-25-2011, 09:13 PM
A very nicely articulated speech.
Reaganesk with a bit of Clintonese.
Lofty goals that require unbridled capitalism to be achieved.
Not government taxation, interference and regulation but rather support and encouragement.

Didnt agree with all of it, but nicely presented.

Let the battle begin.

sack316
01-26-2011, 04:08 AM
Oh was that new? I thought it was a re-run from something off the '08 campaign trail /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Actually I did think it was a good speech. Some of it I agree with, some of it I don't. But my main criticism is still a lack of specifics. I mean, yeah we need to create jobs, grow industry, improve education, make HC more effective and efficient, repair infrastructure, etc. etc. A twelve year old could figure that much. I'm more interested in the specifics of the HOW rather than the WHAT. (And though I'm glad we made it abundantly clear we all need to work together to accomplish things, that still doesn't count as a how). For the record, I think that of both sides of the aisle right now.

Sack

Qtec
01-26-2011, 04:58 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually I did think it was a good speech. Some of it I agree with, some of it I don't. But my main criticism is still a lack of specifics. </div></div>

Before the last election, the GOP could not name a single specific thing they would cut. Now they want to cut everything that has to do with the majority of the people who voted for them.

Q

sack316
01-26-2011, 06:25 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually I did think it was a good speech. Some of it I agree with, some of it I don't. But my main criticism is still a lack of specifics. </div></div>

Before the last election, the GOP could not name a single specific thing they would cut. Now they want to cut everything that has to do with the majority of the people who voted for them.

Q </div></div>

Yessir. That would probably be a reason for my post ending in "for the record, I think that of both sides of the aisle right now".

Sack

Sev
01-26-2011, 06:40 AM
The speech was a bit flat and lacked substance but was well delivered.
I didnt agree with some of what was said.

The spending freeze is a joke. It leaves spending levels about 25% higher than they were the year before.
Do we have 25% inflation??? No. Government expansion and expenditures have far exceeded any inflation rat. There are no more stimulus packages or TARP packages. Spending and borrowing levels should be shrinking.

I liked that he admitted that discretionary spending is only 12% of the budget and cuts need to go deeper.

Every time he said investment he meant government spending. We are out of money.

Entitlements such as Soc Sec cant be touched.

Dont agree with his stand on immigration or healthcare.

Not sure what to make of his high speed rail. I believe there is a limit of 75mph in the US. Thats not to high speed. The eminent domain battles would be furious.

Well see about the clean energy technologies. He mentioned clean coal and nuclear. Both of which he is not a big fan of.

LIked the veto of any bill with earmarks.

I liked that he highlighted American ingenuity and that we are a people capable of doing big things.

Not sure yet on education. Changing no child left behind being altered.

Pulling out of and declaring the mission in Iraq should be interesting. Military expenditures should correspondingly drop. Unless the country collapses into chaos shortly after out exit.

Qtec
01-26-2011, 06:42 AM
So the GOP <span style='font-size: 14pt'>lie all the time</span> and one time Obama isn't specific enough and you equate the two? As they are the same?

Q

Gayle in MD
01-26-2011, 07:25 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So the GOP <span style='font-size: 14pt'>lie all the time</span> and one time Obama isn't specific enough and you equate the two? As they are the same?

Q </div></div>

LOL,

Sack is, IMO, a confirmed rightie, who blames Big Government, for everything. We have several others on here, who do the same thing.

Private, Unregulated Industry, and particularly in the Financial Industry, in their view, is the solution to everything, along with cutting taxes, for the wealthiest, and maintaining all of their loopholes, the mantra of the Republican Party, particularly if they can continue, launching wars, to benefit the Military Congressional Complex, IOW, Lobbyists for War Profiteering, contractors, and for Oil, Insurance, pharmaceuticals, etc.

Wall Street, according to them, can do no wrong. War Profiteering pigs, and the American Oil Cartel, can do no wrong. Greedy, deceitfulol Health Insurance, cEO's ca do no wrong.

The poor, according to them, represent the entire problem, entitlement reform, is the ONLY answer.

When Bush left, the country had been bilked by PRIVATE INDUSTRY, UNREGULATED FOR EIGHT YEARS, GAS PRICES, HEALTH CARE PRICES, HEALTH INSURANCE CEO'S WHO ACTED LIKE HEARTLOESS PIGS, FOR THE SAKE OF PROFITS, EDUCATION SLIDING THROUGHOUT, AFTER BUSH CUT FUNDING FOR HIS OWN PROGRAM, INSURANCE PRICES, PHARMACEUTICAL PRICES, ALL THROUGH THE ROOF, ALL WITH UNPRECEDENTED PROFITS, WHICH THEY ARE STILL SITTING ON, OVER A TRILLION, AND BUSH AND THE REPUBLICANS DID NOTHING ABOUT ANY OF IT!!!!


YET, THEY VOTED TWICE, FOR A PRESIDENT WHO FAVORED AN OWNERSHIP SOCIETY, LIED US INTO A WAR, BORROWED US INTO A DITCH, AND MAINTAINED A FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN, WHO FAVORED THE BUSH OWNERSHIP SOCIETY, BOTH OF THEM LOOKING THE OTHER WAY, IN THE MIDST OF THE BIGGEST WALL STREET SCAM AND FRAUD IN HISTORY, OBVIOUSLY PROOF POSITIVE...... WHO ENDED UP WITH ALL OF THE MONEY???? WHO LOST IT? A FED CHAIRMAN WHO STATED HE WASN'T CONCERNED ABOUT FRAUD IN THE WALL STREET MARKETS, AND KEPT INTEREST RATES LOW, FUELING THE REAL ESTATE BUBBLE FOR EIGHT STRAIGHT YEARS.

Obviously, lol, the way to cure all of this is more tax cuts for the wealthy, more deregulation for Wall Street, no limits on what the health care industry, or HC insurance, or oil, can charge us, and do away with money for improving education, rebuilding our infrastructure, nothing for high speed rail, cut SS and Medeicare, and forget about making our students, the best they can be.

As long as the RW idiots, are MAKING LIFE MORE DIFFICULT those who were stolen from, themselves included, lol, which they're too stupid to realize, and for those who were scammed, by the wealthy, and easier for the thieves who stole it, they are happy, and think that doing the same thing, over and over, and expecting a different result, is the way to go.

Their world would have no public education, no policemen, no teachers, no infrastructure improvments, no high speed raiol system, no environmental protection, and spending billions every years to house people who choose to do illegal drugs, preventing women from having abortions, and continuing to allow the scam artist, priests, reverends, and churches, to get off witout paying any taxes on their highly profitable money making BUSINESS....

Brilliant. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Gayle in MD
01-26-2011, 07:50 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh was that new? I thought it was a re-run from something off the '08 campaign trail /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Actually I did think it was a good speech. Some of it I agree with, some of it I don't. But my main criticism is still a lack of specifics. I mean, yeah we need to create jobs, grow industry, improve education, make HC more effective and efficient, repair infrastructure, etc. etc. A twelve year old could figure that much. I'm more interested in the specifics of the HOW rather than the WHAT. (And though I'm glad we made it abundantly clear we all need to work together to accomplish things, that still doesn't count as a how). For the record, I think that of both sides of the aisle right now.

Sack </div></div>

From his speech:

Eliminate the billions of dollars we currently give away, in subsidies to oil companies.

Investing in tomorrow's clean energy, instead.

Investing in high speed rail, and re-buiding our infrastructure.

Eighty percent of America's energy, will come from clean energy sources.

Investing in education will make our children more competative going forward.

That's just a few, off the top of my head.

Not to mention, the State Of The Union Address, is traditionally, not for specifics, but for an overall view, of the Administration's goals.

Now, of course, Republicans have it all together.

Deregulate everything, and demand nothing from the industries which get huge tax breaks, and hire illegals, here and slave labor, elsewhere.

Cut out aid for everyone, from SS to Medicare. Throw sick people out in the street, and allow HC Insurance, to renig on their promises to their customers for health insurance.

Remove the opportunity for the poor, to get an education in public schools.

Continue to feed the corrupt war contractors, who have been stealing from American citiznes, for decades.

Cut the size of government, ad throw more on the unemployment roles.

Force the public to have to depend on nothing for retirement, unless it is going to make Wall Street wealthier, and put the middle class, more at risk of losing everything, in the next crash, thereby producing another redistribution of wealth, to the wealthy Wall Street Pigs, who stole from all of us, and create another bubble, just like this last one, to keep the Wall Street Ponzi Scheme alive, while cutting taxes for the wealthy thieves, and subsidizing Big Oil, which has been making record breaking profits, for a decade.

Give more loopholes to the wealthy so that they can dodge their due contributions.

Do away with the DOE, and the EPA. who cares if our kids are dumb, overweight, and sick from dirty air and water.

Don't invest in anything, just give more money to the rich, so that they can hire more people, on the other side of the world, and be sure and subsidize them, while they hoard their money, off shore.

Forget about pollution, the crumbling infrastructure, the poor results of No Child Left Behind.

Republicans made a slew of promises, a joke, most fullo of lies, and yet, the big spenders, outraged over spending, at the only time that circumstances demand spending and investing.

LMAO!!!!

But I have yet to hear a logical, honest preview from any of them, of any plan, other than the pure dishonesty and stupidity listed above.

G.

Sev
01-26-2011, 08:07 AM
Gayle your truly clueless.

I find it entertaining that you cant or are unwilling to articulate any solutions other than tax the wealthy.

Necessary cuts are coming. Deep and painful. It will effect everybody. Everybody will sacrifice.

The government needs to be eviscerated. It is the central problem to the country.

pooltchr
01-26-2011, 08:33 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Sack is, IMO, a confirmed rightie, who blames Big Government, for everything. We have several others on here, who do the same thing.

</div></div>

Refresh my memory. Who was it who said in one of his messages that the era of big government is over?

Wait a minute, it's coming back to me now....


I think it was....


Yes, I'm pretty sure it was...



None other than....


Willie Jeff Clinton!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.cnn.com/US/9601/budget/01-27/clinton_radio/


Steve

llotter
01-26-2011, 09:29 AM
Not true. The Republicans came up with a plan to cut spending back to 2008 levels. that is pretty specific though small change when compared to what is needed. Even the $2.5 trillion over ten years is still way too small. That amounts to 250 billion/yr when our deficit is well over a trillion for as far as the eye can see.

Sev
01-26-2011, 09:34 AM
Actually they are now shooting for pre Pelosi. 2006.

sack316
01-26-2011, 01:47 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So the GOP <span style='font-size: 14pt'>lie all the time</span> and one time Obama isn't specific enough and you equate the two? As they are the same?

Q </div></div>

Yes Q, that's exactly what I did /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Actually, as I said, I did like the speech itself but it was lacking on specifics (and from what I've watched and read since... none of it Fox News either BTW... I'm FAR from the only one with that same criticism).

The GOP response, and the laughable Bachmann response were also full of thoughts and ideas and severely lacking in specifics and clearly described solutions.

That's what I was equating. I'm not sure why I have to explain that from my pretty straight forward original post. If you still don't get it then I apologize but I don't think I can say it any simpler.

Sack

sack316
01-26-2011, 01:51 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So the GOP <span style='font-size: 14pt'>lie all the time</span> and one time Obama isn't specific enough and you equate the two? As they are the same?

Q </div></div>

LOL,

Sack is, IMO, a confirmed rightie, who blames Big Government, for everything. We have several others on here, who do the same thing.

Private, Unregulated Industry, and particularly in the Financial Industry, in their view, is the solution to everything, along with cutting taxes, for the wealthiest, and maintaining all of their loopholes, the mantra of the Republican Party, particularly if they can continue, launching wars, to benefit the Military Congressional Complex, IOW, Lobbyists for War Profiteering, contractors, and for Oil, Insurance, pharmaceuticals, etc.

Wall Street, according to them, can do no wrong. War Profiteering pigs, and the American Oil Cartel, can do no wrong. Greedy, deceitfulol Health Insurance, cEO's ca do no wrong.

The poor, according to them, represent the entire problem, entitlement reform, is the ONLY answer.

When Bush left, the country had been bilked by PRIVATE INDUSTRY, UNREGULATED FOR EIGHT YEARS, GAS PRICES, HEALTH CARE PRICES, HEALTH INSURANCE CEO'S WHO ACTED LIKE HEARTLOESS PIGS, FOR THE SAKE OF PROFITS, EDUCATION SLIDING THROUGHOUT, AFTER BUSH CUT FUNDING FOR HIS OWN PROGRAM, INSURANCE PRICES, PHARMACEUTICAL PRICES, ALL THROUGH THE ROOF, ALL WITH UNPRECEDENTED PROFITS, WHICH THEY ARE STILL SITTING ON, OVER A TRILLION, AND BUSH AND THE REPUBLICANS DID NOTHING ABOUT ANY OF IT!!!!


YET, THEY VOTED TWICE, FOR A PRESIDENT WHO FAVORED AN OWNERSHIP SOCIETY, LIED US INTO A WAR, BORROWED US INTO A DITCH, AND MAINTAINED A FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN, WHO FAVORED THE BUSH OWNERSHIP SOCIETY, BOTH OF THEM LOOKING THE OTHER WAY, IN THE MIDST OF THE BIGGEST WALL STREET SCAM AND FRAUD IN HISTORY, OBVIOUSLY PROOF POSITIVE...... WHO ENDED UP WITH ALL OF THE MONEY???? WHO LOST IT? A FED CHAIRMAN WHO STATED HE WASN'T CONCERNED ABOUT FRAUD IN THE WALL STREET MARKETS, AND KEPT INTEREST RATES LOW, FUELING THE REAL ESTATE BUBBLE FOR EIGHT STRAIGHT YEARS.

Obviously, lol, the way to cure all of this is more tax cuts for the wealthy, more deregulation for Wall Street, no limits on what the health care industry, or HC insurance, or oil, can charge us, and do away with money for improving education, rebuilding our infrastructure, nothing for high speed rail, cut SS and Medeicare, and forget about making our students, the best they can be.

As long as the RW idiots, are MAKING LIFE MORE DIFFICULT those who were stolen from, themselves included, lol, which they're too stupid to realize, and for those who were scammed, by the wealthy, and easier for the thieves who stole it, they are happy, and think that doing the same thing, over and over, and expecting a different result, is the way to go.

Their world would have no public education, no policemen, no teachers, no infrastructure improvments, no high speed raiol system, no environmental protection, and spending billions every years to house people who choose to do illegal drugs, preventing women from having abortions, and continuing to allow the scam artist, priests, reverends, and churches, to get off witout paying any taxes on their highly profitable money making BUSINESS....

Brilliant. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif




</div></div>

yep, that's exactly what I said and right in line with what I think all the time /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Take a chill pill G, all I said was that they (Obama and GOP) should lay out more specifics. It wasn't like some manifesto I wrote on this thread. I liked his speech very much, actually. The lack of specifics was my ONE criticism.

Sack

sack316
01-26-2011, 02:09 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Eliminate the billions of dollars we currently give away, in subsidies to oil companies.</div></div>

OK, cool. How? When? I heard that over 2 years ago too.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Investing in tomorrow's clean energy, instead.</div></div>

Good idea. I think we should do that. How so? What's the plan? How much? To whom and to where?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Investing in high speed rail, and re-buiding our infrastructure.</div></div>

Another good thing. Tell us all about it!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Eighty percent of America's energy, will come from clean energy sources.</div></div>

Cool, I hope it does. What's the plan to do so?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Investing in education will make our children more competative going forward.</div></div>

That sounds awesome too! great idea! We've only done that forever too, what's the plan going to be? Throw money at it? Or lay out an effective and efficient plan for our investment? I assume the latter... so what is that going to be?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's just a few, off the top of my head.
</div></div>

Yes indeed. I could throw out probably at least another dozen more things said just like what you mention above. And most (if not all) actually sounds very good. I agree with nearly everything he said last night. BUT HOW? These are all things we've heard for the last two years... when is it going to happen and how will we do it and how will it be implemented?

We've got a 5 year spending freeze on discretionary non-defense spending that will reduce the deficit. Sounds great. But frozen AFTER it was increased (IIRC) around 84%. I'd like to know how that math works.

And on that note, with such a freeze as well as a pledge to be cutting so much out of spending... most of the discussion began with "invest in________". We are going to invest in more things, AND we are going to spend less. Specifics on how this works?

That's all I'm saying. A lot of beautiful things were said. I thought it was a good speech full of some wonderful thoughts... I'd just like a little more meat and potatoes with it.

It's like, I'll finish my undergrad degrees soon. In my State of the Sack speech I'll say I plan on going to get my Masters after. That sounds like a good idea, and who could fault me for that. I'll get my polite applause for that comment. But what good is it without planning out where I will go, what I will pursue, how I will pay for it, what timeline I need to attempt to gain acceptance, a graduation and course of study plan, housing (if the institution is not near me), etc. etc. etc.?

Sack

Sev
01-26-2011, 02:27 PM
Sach if she put up ideas of her own she would have to defend them. The only thing she is capable of doing is tearing down other peoples ideas.

Gayle in MD
01-26-2011, 03:08 PM
Sack,
As I said, the SOTU Address, is not historically that specific. It is usually just an overview, of where the President wants to take the country.

But, does it really matter, when the Republican Leadership has already stated, over and over, that their MAIN intention is to obstruct this President, and thereby, make him a one term president?

Didn't Boehner, just say, that he won't even use the word, compromise, doesn't like the word?


But, never fear, I'm sure Bachmann has all of the answers, to pull us out of Bush's predicted decade long Recession, nearly a "Decade long Depression," said Bush..... and thankfully, this president was able to divert the Bush Depression.

Now if we could just get the RED STATES, to pull their own weight, lol.

http://blog.buzzflash.com/analysis/617/

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/06/research_desk_responds_do_cons.html

S. I think Clinton was GREAT! Bush was the worst EVER! Obama, diverted the Bush Depression, which was amazing, with our monthly job losses having dropped tremendously, since the end of the Bush tennure, and Obama and the Democratics, having created over a million jobs, and the CBO and by far, most economists, saying we could be at thrity percent unemployment, by now, without this President's leadership, so much better than September of 08, ....when we were losing 750,000 jobs a month, and hanging on the brink of Depression...s

So I think things are much better, now, an excellent improvment! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
G.

Sev
01-26-2011, 03:37 PM
As usual. No answers. Just blame.

pooltchr
01-26-2011, 04:06 PM
Typical Gayle...Unemployment has been near double digits for two years, using the government's twisted version of who is actually unemployed, and she is thrilled when Obama tells her he is creating jobs!

Since Obama doesn't have a specific plan, how do you expect Gayle to have one. She can only repeat what she is told.

Steve

Sev
01-26-2011, 04:54 PM
Obama is gong to play a game of chicken with the republicans. However all the republicans have to do is refuse to raise the debt ceiling.

sack316
01-26-2011, 09:54 PM
You certainly strayed this pretty far from my basic commentary of "I've heard this before" and "I'd like more specifics". You're good with the portion of response that said the SOTU is not historically that specific. That is a quality and valid response. The rest... well I appreciate the time and effort you put into it, superfluous as it may be.

Sack

LWW
01-27-2011, 04:58 AM
They already show signs that they lack the stones to do the right thing.

LWW

Sev
01-28-2011, 10:08 AM
The Tea Party members seem to be making a lot of noise.