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View Full Version : Can somone make the proper call for this shot???



kenz
02-01-2011, 11:37 AM
I have an intersting situation that happened to me in a match one day. The 8 ball was on the table but inside the jaws of the corner pocket(almost falling in but still on the table). Q ball was on the short rail. After waiting about 40 seconds, I finally took the shot. After I hit the cue ball and it was on route to put the 8 ball in, the 8 ball fell into the pocket by itself. A second later, the cue ball arrived at the spot the 8 ball formally occupied but because the 8 ball was no longer there and the Q ball no longer had anything there to hit, it also went into the pocket. So here is the question, did I lose the game because I scratched on the 8 ball regardless of the circumstance, or does the 8 ball and cue ball both go back into there original spots and the shot retaken? Thanks for your help. (The call made at the time was that I lost the match for scratching on the 8 ball but to this day, I still wonder if that was the proper call.

pooltchr
02-01-2011, 12:19 PM
I'm not a referee, so my answer may or may not be the final word. That being said, the general rule is that if a ball stays on the table for more than 5 seconds, if it does drop, it is considered to have been caused by some outside influence. It could be something as simple as a slight vibration. Maybe you bumped against the table when you were down on the shot.

When a ball is caused to drop by outside influence, it is generally replaced as near to it's original place as possible and play resumes. So if I had to make the call, I would have replaced the 8, put the cue ball back in it's original place, and replayed the shot.

I'm sure you will also get some other opinions. Of course, some consideration would have to be given to what rules you were playing by. (My biggest problem with 8-ball, and I really love playing 8-ball, is the wide variation of rules that can be used.)

Next?

Steve

Tony777
02-01-2011, 03:02 PM
I go by the APA rules and I would say that......had the Q-ball not scratched, you would have won IMO. Since it scratched, you lose.

http://www.poolplayers.com/8-9-ball-Rules.pdf

Chopstick
02-01-2011, 04:34 PM
General rules of Pocket Billiards

1.7 Balls Settling
A ball may settle slightly after it appears to have stopped, possibly due to slight imperfections in the ball or the table. Unless this causes a ball to fall into a pocket, it is considered a normal hazard of play, and the ball will not be moved back. If a ball falls into a pocket as the result of such settling, it is restored as closely as possible to its original position. <span style='font-size: 14pt'>If a settling ball falls into a pocket during or just prior to a shot, and this has an effect on the shot, the referee will restore the position and the shot will be replayed. The shooter is not penalized for shooting while a ball is settling.</span> See also 8.3 Ball Pocketed.

8.3 Ball Pocketed
A ball is pocketed if it comes to rest in a pocket below the playing surface or enters the ball return system. A ball near the brink of a pocket partly supported by another ball is considered pocketed if removal of the supporting ball would cause the ball to fall into the pocket.
<span style='font-size: 14pt'>If a ball stops near the edge of a pocket, and remains apparently motionless for five seconds, it is not considered pocketed if it later falls into the pocket by itself. See 1.7</span> Balls Settling for other details. During that five second period, the referee should ensure that no other shot is taken. An object ball that rebounds from a pocket back onto the playing surface is not a pocketed ball. If the cue ball contacts an already pocketed ball, the cue ball will be considered pocketed whether it rebounds from the pocket or not. The referee will remove pocketed object balls from full or nearly full pockets, but it is the shooter’s responsibility to see that this duty is performed.

JJFSTAR
02-01-2011, 04:44 PM
According to the “World standardized general rules” the 8 gets replaced and the shot is taken again.

3.31 BALLS MOVING SPONTANEOUSLY
If a ball shifts, settles, turns or otherwise moves “by itself,” the ball shall remain in the position it assumed and play continues. A hanging ball that falls into a pocket “by itself” after being motionless for 5 seconds or longer shall be replaced as closely as possible to its position prior to falling, and play shall continue. <u>If an object ball drops into a pocket “by itself” as a player shoots at it, so that the cue ball passes over the spot the ball had been on, unable to hit it, the cue ball and object ball are to be replaced to their positions prior to the stroke, and the player may shoot again.</u> Any other object balls disturbed on the stroke are also to be replaced to their original positions before the shooter replays.

pooltchr
02-02-2011, 07:33 AM
Thanks for confirming my original opinion.

Steve

Rich R.
02-02-2011, 07:58 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tony777</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I go by the APA rules and I would say that......had the Q-ball not scratched, you would have won IMO. Since it scratched, you lose.

http://www.poolplayers.com/8-9-ball-Rules.pdf

</div></div>
Tony, can you tell me exactly where this situation is covered in the APA rules? I looked but I can't seem to find it.

kenz
02-02-2011, 12:45 PM
Thank you all for your answers. I appreciate it! It confirms what I thought and what common sense would seem to dictate.