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LWW
02-06-2011, 06:49 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-size: 14pt'>May 1, 1972: A. Q. Khan Starts Work for Dutch Nuclear Company, Obtains Classified Information despite Lacking Proper Clearance</span>

A. Q. Khan starts work for an engineering company called Physical Dynamics Research Laboratory (FDO), which is based in the Netherlands. He obtains the job, evaluating high-strength metals to be used for centrifuge components, through a former university classmate and a recommendation from his old professor, Martin Brabers. FDO is a subcontractor for a company called Urenco. Urenco owns an enrichment facility and was established in 1970 by the governments of Britain, West Germany, and the Netherlands to manufacture top-quality centrifuges that can be used to produce highly-enriched uranium for use in power plants and nuclear weapons.

Khan Obtains Security Clearance - Khan obtains a security clearance with minimal background checks because he tells investigators he intends to become a Dutch citizen. However, he finds that security is lax and he has access to areas that should be denied him. For example, less than a week after he is hired, he visits the centrifuges, although he does not have clearance to see them. He obtains access to data about them and is also asked to help translate sensitive documents, as he has lived in various European countries and can speak several languages. Khan is allowed to take the documents home, even though this is a clear violation of security protocols. [ARMSTRONG AND TRENTO, 2007, PP. 46-7]

Studied in Europe, Developed Network of Contacts - Prior to being hired by FDO, Khan had studied in Europe for some time. First he attended a series of lectures about metallurgy at the Technical University in West Berlin in 1962, then obtained a master’s degree in engineering from Delft Technical University in the Netherlands in 1967, and received his doctorate from the Catholic University of Leuven in Belgium in 1971. His studies in Europe will later turn out to be useful when he starts a nuclear smuggling ring. Authors David Armstrong and Joe Trento will comment, “Along the way the affable Pakistani had developed a wide range of contacts, including individuals who would later emerge as part of his smuggling network.” </div></div>

OH DEAR! (http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=aq_khan_nuclear_network_tmln&aq_khan_nuclear_network_tmln_a__q__khan_s_prolifer ation_network=aq_khan_nuclear_network_tmln_the_net herlands)

LWW

LWW
02-06-2011, 06:51 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-size: 14pt'>After May 18, 1974: A. Q. Khan Offers Services to Pakistan</span>

After India’s first successful nuclear test on May 18, 1974, Pakistani nuclear scientist A. Q. Khan, at this time working in a centrifuge production facility in the Netherlands, begins to approach Pakistani government representatives to offer help with Pakistan’s nuclear program. First he approaches a pair of Pakistani military scientists who are in the Netherlands on business. He tells them he wants to help Pakistan’s nuclear program, but they discourage him, saying it would be hard for him to find a job in Pakistan. Undaunted, Khan then writes to Pakistani President Zulfikar Ali Bhutto. He sets out his experience and encourages Bhutto to make a nuclear bomb using uranium, rather than plutonium, the method Pakistan is currently trying to adopt. Pakistan will examine Khan’s idea and find it a good one (see Summer-Autumn 1974). </div></div>

OH MY! (http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=aq_khan_nuclear_network_tmln&aq_khan_nuclear_network_tmln_a__q__khan_s_prolifer ation_network=aq_khan_nuclear_network_tmln_the_net herlands)

LWW

LWW
02-06-2011, 06:53 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-size: 14pt'>October 1974: A. Q. Khan Begins Stealing Nuclear Secrets for Pakistan</span>

After Pakistani nuclear scientist A. Q. Khan agrees to help Pakistan obtain the technology to make a nuclear bomb (see Summer-Autumn 1974), he begins to steal secrets from a Dutch company he works for to help them. Khan is asked to help translate a top-secret report on the G2 centrifuge, a major advance in uranium enrichment technology. To this end, he is assigned to a high-security section of the company, but the strict security procedures are ignored and he has free access for 16 days to the company’s main centrifuge plant. He takes full advantage of the situation, noting down details of the various processes. Around this time, neighbors also notice that Khan is receiving late-night visits from French and Belgian cars with diplomatic license plates, presumably Pakistani contacts to whom Khan is passing the secrets. </div></div>

MY GOODNESS! (http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=aq_khan_nuclear_network_tmln&aq_khan_nuclear_network_tmln_a__q__khan_s_prolifer ation_network=aq_khan_nuclear_network_tmln_the_net herlands)

LWW

Sev
02-06-2011, 10:16 AM
Oh the horror!!!

JohnnyD
02-06-2011, 10:19 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh the horror!!! </div></div>
Excellent post.

LWW
02-06-2011, 10:44 AM
It was the Walloons what did it!

LWW

Soflasnapper
02-06-2011, 01:09 PM
KHAN!!! (Ricardo Montalban?)

Read your links and I'm confused as to what you think this all means?

Are you blaming the Dutch, or US intelligence policy under Nixon and Reagan (Reagan, of course, was known as Dutch. Was that your hidden point?)?

Many do in fact blame Reagan given that critical areas of this timeline occurred in his terms of office, and he had a policy of coddling the Pakistanis because of their aid in the Afghanistan theater against the Soviets.

This legacy of Reagan's, of turning a blind eye to Pakistanis gaining nuclear weaponry, and interfering with capturing Khan, is probably the most dangerous error he ever made. Since that means the atomic bomb is in hands that can be overrun by jihadis. AQ Khan also proliferated that knowledge to N. Korea, so this policy was doubly spectacularly awful.

LWW
02-06-2011, 03:37 PM
I didn't expect you to get it.

LWW

Stretch
02-06-2011, 04:40 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I didn't expect you to get it.

LWW </div></div>

That's because he dosn't muck around in your swamp. St.

cushioncrawler
02-06-2011, 05:01 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It was the Walloons what did it!LWW</div></div>Dubb -- are u inferring that the secrets were smuggled in a harmonica???

".....Famous Walloons Including people from the region before it became known as Wallonia.

Pierre Lacocque, hamonica player for American blues band Mississippi Heat
Zénon Bacq inventor
Michael Baius (1513–1589) theologian of the Baianism
Baldwin I of Constantinople, Count of Flanders and Hainaut, first Emperor of the Latin Empire
Gilles Binchois, Franco-Flemish composer
Jules Bordet Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine (1919)
Godfroid de Bouillon, leader of the First Crusade and first European King of Jerusalem
Robert Campin, Flemish painter
Johannes Ciconia Ars nova composer
Jacques Daret, Flemish painter
Dardenne brothers
Jessé de Forest, Walloon settler, first colonizer of New Netherland and what would become New York City. Monument dedicated and located in Battery Park, Lower Manhattan.
Nicolas Defrecheux, poet in the Walloon language
Léon Degrelle, Belgian Rexist politician and leader of Waffen SS Walloon contingent
Paul Delvaux, surrealist painter
Louis Dewis, Post-Impressionist painter
Guillaume Dufay, Franco-Flemish composer
Marc Dutroux serial killer
Edouard Empain engineer whose the company constructed the Paris Métro
César Franck, Belgian composer
Louis De Geer, merchant and industrialist
Zénobe Gramme, inventor of the Gramme machine
Joao Havelange, former FIFA chairman
Justine Henin, tennis champion
Louis Hennepin Niagara Falls and Saint-Anthony Falls were brought to the world's attention by Louis Hennepin
Juliana of Liège promoter of feast Corpus Christi
Marc Lacroix, biochemist and cancer researcher
Orlande de Lassus, Franco-Flemish composer
Jean Lemaire de Belges, late Medieval, early Renaissance poet and historian
Georges Lemaître, originator of the "Big Bang" theory of the origin of the universe
Rene Magritte the surrealist artist
Henri Michaux
Pierre Minuit, who purchased the island of Manhattan from the Native Americans and founded what would become New York City
Joachim Patinir Mosan painter
Dominique Pire Nobel Peace Prize (in 1958)
Charles Plisnier Prix Goncourt (1937)
Hercule Poirot Fictional Belgian detective created by Agatha Christie; likely a Walloon name
Henri Pousseur Composer
André Renard syndicalist,leader of the longest general strike in Belgium
Edouard Remouchamps, playwright in the Walloon language
Pierre de la Rue, Franco-Flemish composer
Jean Rey (politician) Second President of the European Commission
Félicien Rops painter
Jean-Michel Saive, table tennis champion
Adolphe Sax, the inventor of the saxophone
Georges Simenon, author of Maigret and other novels
Rennequin Sualem Hydraulics engineer
Ernest Solvay, inventor of the Solvay process and founder of the Solvay Business School.
Count Tilly, Catholic League commander in the Thirty Year's war
Rogier van der Weyden (Rogier de le Pasture), Flemish painter
Tommy Wiseau, renowned filmmaker and actor
Eugène Ysaÿe violinist and composer ......"

Soflasnapper
02-06-2011, 11:52 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I didn't expect you to get it.

LWW </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Nuclear Proliferation Is Everybody's Business
December 25, 1988|Alan J. Kuperman and Paul L. Leventhal | Alan J. Kuperman is the issues director and Paul L. Leventhal is the president of the Nuclear Control Institute, a research center on nuclear proliferation.

WASHINGTON — On Jan. 31, 1980, then-candidate Ronald Reagan, responding to a question about emerging atom-bomb programs in several Third World countries, said, "I just don't think it's any of our business."

Though that comment was regarded as a gaffe, it foreshadowed the Reagan Administration's laissez faire approach to nuclear proliferation--an approach that has placed economic and other considerations ahead of what had been a top U.S. national security priority: preventing the spread of nuclear weapons.</div></div>

link to LA Times (http://articles.latimes.com/1988-12-25/opinion/op-1225_1_nuclear-proliferation)

LWW
02-07-2011, 03:59 AM
What does that have to do with Dutch security failures?

LWW

Soflasnapper
02-07-2011, 07:43 PM
If you read through the link I supplied, it explains how when we could have done something about the transfers of nuclear know-how, the CIA intervened several times to make sure we did nothing. Which was Reagan's own stated position.

LWW
02-08-2011, 02:34 AM
So your answer is that the Reagan policies of 1981-1988 are responsible for the Dutch lack of security which led to Khan's theft in 1974?

Seriously ... what drives you to such obviously illogical conclusions?

LWW

Soflasnapper
02-10-2011, 04:40 PM
Instead of waiting for you to reason your way out of a paper bag, I'll parse it for you.

Despite AQ Khan's early pilfering of knowledge of technologies, which indeed weren't subject to any Reagan administration error or aid and abetting, his later transmission of this knowledge of technologies, and their implementation into working models by Pakistan, WAS subject to being stopped by Reagan and Co., who failed to do so out of blind neglect, philosophical indifference to proliferation ("I just don't think it's any of our business" -- R. Reagan), and having another competing agenda.

Just as the fact that Israel may have gotten its start in nuclear technology from France doesn't mean JFK couldn't bring down extreme pressure on Israel, and by doing so, prevent them from manufacturing what they knew how to build.

David Ben Gurion resigned as head of Israel from the extreme pressure JFK brought to bear on him concerning Dimona. Probably JFK would have prevailed with the next leader as well, but he was killed shortly thereafter, and LBJ let them do whatever they wanted, for some reason.

LWW
02-10-2011, 05:07 PM
If you wish to discuss any Reagan complicity in allowing Khan to escape prosecution, please start a thread and I'll comment.

The point of this thread is the Walloons leaking nuke secrets to the Pakis due to gross incompetence.

LWW

Qtec
02-10-2011, 10:01 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What does that have to do with Dutch security failures?

LWW </div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">November 1975: <span style='font-size: 17pt'>CIA Instructs Dutch Not to Arrest A. Q. </span>Khan over Passage of Nuclear Secrets; Khan Flees to Pakistan
Edit event

Ruud Lubbers.Ruud Lubbers. [Source: ru(.nl)]After the BVD, a Dutch intelligence agency, informs the CIA that <span style='font-size: 14pt'>it intends to arrest A. Q. Khan over the passage of nuclear secrets to Pakistan</span> (see <u>Mid-October 1975</u>), the CIA tells the Dutch to let Khan continue with his activities. Former Dutch Minister of Economc Affairs Ruud Lubbers will say, <u>“The Americans wished to follow and watch Khan to get more information.”</u> Lubbers questions this and the CIA tells him to block Khan’s access to the secrets, which the Dutch do by promoting him to a job where he no longer has access to sensitive data from the uranium enrichment company Urenco. <span style='font-size: 17pt'>Lubbers will later suggest that the real reason the US does not want Khan arrested is because of its interest in helping Pakistan, an enemy of Soviet-leaning India.</span> Because Khan no longer has access to the sensitive data after his promotion, the CIA cannot find out anything by monitoring him. In addition, the promotion alerts Khan to the fact he may be under surveillance, and he flees to Pakistan in mid-December. Authors David Armstrong and Joe Trento will later comment: “What no one yet realized was that Khan had already absconded with the plans for almost every centrifuge on Urenco’s drawing board, including the all-important G-2 [centrifuge]. It would prove to be one of the greatest nuclear heists of all time.” </div></div>

The USA let him go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Q

LWW
02-11-2011, 03:34 AM
The US never had him in hand.

Now ... dance around the topic again.

LWW

Qtec
02-11-2011, 04:25 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The US never had him in hand.

Now ... dance around the topic again.

LWW </div></div>

You are in denial again. The US could have had him but,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dutch intelligence agency, <span style='font-size: 14pt'>informs the CIA </span>that it <span style='font-size: 17pt'>intends to arrest A. Q. Khan</span> over the passage of nuclear secrets to Pakistan (see Mid-October 1975), <span style='font-size: 20pt'>the CIA tells the Dutch to let Khan continue with his activities.</span> </div></div>

Squirm all you want but the US let him go.

Q

LWW
02-11-2011, 04:43 AM
Again ... if you wish to start a thread on the US implication, please do so and I will comment.

Right now, the topic is the Walloons ... their abject incompetence as far as security ... and how they allowed the Islamic bomb to happen.

And the best you have to offer is that the Walloons allowed Khan to steal the data while the Carter regime was in office because of Reagan?

Are you aware others can read the stuff you post and then form an opinion about you based on those postings?

LWW

Stretch
02-11-2011, 05:23 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Again ... if you wish to start a thread on the US implication, please do so and I will comment.

Right now, the topic is the Walloons ... their abject incompetence as far as security ... and how they allowed the Islamic bomb to happen.

And the best you have to offer is that the Walloons allowed Khan to steal the data while the Carter regime was in office because of Reagan?

Are you aware others can read the stuff you post and then form an opinion about you based on those postings?

LWW </div></div>

Glad you brought that up. Fact is people would have a lot more respect for Q than you. St.

Qtec
02-11-2011, 05:29 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Right now, the topic is the Walloons </div></div>

The Walloons are French speaking <span style='font-size: 14pt'>Belgians from BELGIUM </span>, which you may be shocked to hear is a DIFFERENT country from the Netherlands.

Q

Qtec
02-11-2011, 05:31 AM
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Thanks Stretch.

Good to know. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Q

LWW
02-11-2011, 06:18 AM
I don't seek peer pressure.

I rather stand alone and be right than be wrong and be just another sheep in the fold.

LWW

Qtec
02-11-2011, 06:32 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I don't seek peer pressure.</div></div>



I think you mean peer approval.


Q

Stretch
02-11-2011, 12:48 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I don't seek peer pressure.</div></div>



I think you mean peer approval.


Q </div></div>

Don't expect a thankyou, our resident omnipotent one believes he has no peers. St.

LWW
02-11-2011, 03:35 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stretch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I don't seek peer pressure.</div></div>



I think you mean peer approval.


Q </div></div>

Don't expect a thankyou, our resident omnipotent one believes he has no peers. St. </div></div>

I have many intellectual peers.

I even have intellectual superiors.

It's just that you ain't one of them.

LWW

Stretch
02-12-2011, 12:55 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stretch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I don't seek peer pressure.</div></div>



I think you mean peer approval.


Q </div></div>

Don't expect a thankyou, our resident omnipotent one believes he has no peers. St. </div></div>

I have many intellectual peers.

I even have intellectual superiors.

It's just that you ain't one of them.

LWW </div></div>

Ain't? LOL ya that sounds real smart. St.

LWW
02-12-2011, 02:03 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stretch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL ya that sounds real smart. St. </div></div>

Your village called.

They miss you.

LWW

bobroberts
02-14-2011, 11:57 AM
Larry i don't know why you bother arguing with closed minds. Surprised there not blaming Bush.
LBJ probably had Kennedy killed. He had a lot of motive.The Dems turn on each other all the time.

LWW
02-14-2011, 05:29 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bobroberts</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Larry i don't know why you bother arguing with closed minds.</div></div>

I get a perverse pleasure from making their collective heads spin.

LWW

Stretch
02-14-2011, 07:23 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bobroberts</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Larry i don't know why you bother arguing with closed minds.</div></div>

I get a perverse pleasure from making their collective heads spin.

LWW </div></div>

Epic Fail. By correcting all your lies and twisted logic it makes the lefts positions stronger and the lefts resolve absolute. Plus it shows to all the petty and dangerous side of the right. Well done! St

LWW
02-15-2011, 01:15 AM
How much spittle was spewed in that post?

LWW

Stretch
02-15-2011, 02:17 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How much spittle was spewed in that post?

LWW </div></div>

Absolutely none as i was congradulating you. Poor baby disappointed? St.

LWW
02-15-2011, 04:05 AM
The standard you have set for yourself leaves little room for disappointment.

LWW

Stretch
02-15-2011, 08:29 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The standard you have set for yourself leaves little room for disappointment.

LWW </div></div>

The standard you have set for yourself leaves little room for admiration. St.

LWW
02-15-2011, 02:27 PM
Truth is seldom admired ... or even recognized ... by statists.

LWW