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Qtec
02-11-2011, 06:13 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I am shocked, shocked to discover that the Joint Staff's J2 (intelligence) shop <span style='font-size: 17pt'>told former SecDef Donald Rumsfeld in September 2002 that it had <u>no idea</u> whether Saddam's WMD program was actually active or had any stockpiles of chemical or biological weapons. </span>It's quite amazing, in fact, but here is the briefing in response to the SecDef's inquiry. If you've never seen a Rumsfeld "snowflake," an example is at the very first page. From Int. Business Times:

[Maj. Gen. Glen] Shaffer [Director of Intelligence, Joint Staff] wrote on September 5, 2002 that he had been asked by Rumsfeld what the U.S. did not know in terms of percentage about Iraq's WMD program.

"We've struggled to estimate unknowns, and the attached briefing sumps up our best J2 sense," he said. J2 is an intelligence group supporting top level U.S. defense officials.

"We range from 0 % to about 75 % knowledge on various aspects of their program," he said.

The group did not know the status of any nuclear enrichment facilities, centrifuge program development, or attempts by Iraq to purchase a nuclear weapon or know with confidence about the location of any nuclear weapon-related facilities. [Iraq had technical experts but no ability to build any weapon]

<span style='font-size: 17pt'>"Our knowledge of the Iraqi nuclear weapons program is based largely - perhaps 90% - on analysis of imprecise intelligence," the report states.</span>

The report said "we believe" Iraq had 7 mobile biological weapons production plants "but cannot locate them." [maybe because the CIA had misidentified hydrogen generators for artillery weather stations as "mobile bio labs."]

On chemical weapons, the U.S. could not confirm the identity of any Iraqi sites that could produce the final chemical agent. [because the production lines were cold]

"Our overall knowledge of the Iraqi CW program is primarily limited to infrastructure & doctrine. The specific agent and facility knowledge is 60 -70 percent incomplete," the report stated.

<u>On the one hand, now we know that Rumsfeld got his "we don't know what we don't know" quote from this two-star Air Force general officer</u> (see second slide). On the other hand, this is what I really dislike about intel weenies. <u>They say "We assess Iraq is making significant progress in WMD programs." First of all, they base this on a near total lack of hard intel. Second, they offer no credible assessment of whether this "progress" can be translated into an actual threat or impact against US forces.</u> Fortunately for the J2, the CheneyBush administration took the leap of faith there.

<span style='font-size: 17pt'>Our intel at the time consisted of five-year old second-hand reports from UN Special Commission reports and tall tales from Ahmed Chalabi's band of Iraqi outcasts.</span> So despite the fact that there were "known unknowns," this weak analysis <u>was still good enough for the CheneyBush administration's policy makers to justify a preventive invasion of Iraq. </u><span style="color: #3333FF">This was the clear proof that Iraq was "engaging in the development of weapons of mass destruction," and the basis for GWB to say in February 2003, "And our mission is clear, to disarm Iraq of weapons of mass destruction, to end Saddam Hussein's support for terrorism, and to free the Iraqi people."</span> </div></div>

Q link (http://crooksandliars.com/jason-sigger/rumsfelds-wmd-evidence)

Bush said the intel was 'solid'.!

Rumsfeld said he 'knew where they were'.

Condi talked about a 'Mushroom cloud' knowing full well Saddam did not have a nuke.

Cheney said,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">VICE PRES. CHENEY: Well, what we now have that's developed since you and I last talked, Tim, of course, was that report that--<u>it's been pretty well confirmed that he did go to Prague and he did meet with a senior official of the Iraqi intelligence service in Czechoslovakia last April, several months before the attack. </u></div></div>

Which was a total lie.....and on and on...........

Qtec
02-11-2011, 06:29 AM
What this document shows is that <u>the only people that were sure that Saddam was a threat were inside the Bush administration.</u>
It clearly shows that any info they had on Iraq was shaky, not solid.

Instead of looking for evidence that shows they lied, people should look for evidence that they made an honest mistake. <u>You will find that every excuse can be easily shot down.</u>


Q

LWW
02-11-2011, 06:41 AM
You are aware that the writer doesn't support the claim he makes?

LWW

Qtec
02-11-2011, 06:46 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are aware that the writer doesn't support the claim he makes?

LWW </div></div>

Another question.

If you have no comment why post?

Q

LWW
02-11-2011, 03:22 PM
The question was rhetorical in nature ... that means the answer should be self evident to anyone above a room temp IQ.

LWW

Qtec
02-12-2011, 02:20 AM
So why don't you get it?

Q

LWW
02-12-2011, 02:51 AM
Because you have ... again ... failed to make a point to get gotten.

LWW

Qtec
02-12-2011, 03:47 AM
This was what I was trying to get at in my 'Lets Vote' thread. Its impossible to have an adult conversation with you.

I made a post and provided quotes and links. You come up with..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are aware that the writer doesn't support the claim he makes?

LWW </div></div>

You may be right,I may be wrong but its good manners to post a link to support your claim.
Should it be the reader,s task to search out everyone of your crackpot theories to find out if there is some modicum of truth to it?

Again, just because you utter something doesn't make it true, look at Rumsfeld.......he KNEW where they were!!!!!!!!

Q

LWW
02-12-2011, 04:08 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This was what I was trying to get at in my 'Lets Vote' thread. Its impossible to have an adult conversation with you.

I made a post and provided quotes and links. You come up with..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are aware that the writer doesn't support the claim he makes?

LWW </div></div>

You may be right,I may be wrong but its good manners to post a link to support your claim.

Q
</div></div>

Well my conetention is that the writer doesn't support the claim he makes, and you want me to link to evidence of this?

OK ... HERE YOU GO (http://billiardsdigest.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=336420&gonew=1#UNREAD).

LWW

Qtec
02-12-2011, 04:19 AM
Grow up.

Q

Stretch
02-12-2011, 04:37 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Grow up.

Q </div></div>

LWW is sounding more and more like a Special Ed dropout. Which probably accounts for his irrational hatred of teachers. St.

LWW
02-12-2011, 04:42 AM
And the left resorts to it's typical ad hominem attacks to disguise their intellectual bankruptcy.

LWW &lt;---Unsurprised.

Stretch
02-12-2011, 04:58 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And the left resorts to it's typical ad hominem attacks to disguise their intellectual bankruptcy.

LWW &lt;---Unsurprised. </div></div>

You are entitled to your mistaken oppinion. St.

LWW
02-12-2011, 05:26 AM
And you entitled to your inability to spell common everyday words.

Now, you claimed my opinion is mistaken. By Snoopy's suggested rule, you must present data to support that ... like you ever have in the past.

LWW

Stretch
02-12-2011, 06:19 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And you entitled to your inability to spell common everyday words.

Now, you claimed my opinion is mistaken. By Snoopy's suggested rule, you must present data to support that ... like you ever have in the past.

LWW </div></div>


Key word "suggested". St.

LWW
02-12-2011, 06:25 AM
So you admit Snoopy is a hypocrite for wanting others to do that which he will not?

That's progress.

BRAVO!

EXCELLENT POST!

LWW

Stretch
02-12-2011, 02:13 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So you admit Snoopy is a hypocrite for wanting others to do that which he will not?

That's progress.

BRAVO!

EXCELLENT POST!

LWW </div></div>

If you can read all that crap into the single word "suggested" then it's little wonder why all your other rants fly off into fantasy land faster than the speed of light. Please up your Ritalin dose. St.

LWW
02-13-2011, 05:10 AM
Well I do have an unfair advantage in that I am fluent in English.

If you use words correctly you won't continue to have these issues.

LWW

Stretch
02-13-2011, 10:22 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I do have an unfair advantage in that I am fluent in English.

If you use words correctly you won't continue to have these issues.

LWW </div></div>i

You claim to be intelligent?? Then you must understand that since you are the ONLY one that has an issue with my English then that makes it a complete non-issue with me. When you come to terms with that, then you will see how ammusing it is to me every time you bring it up. St.

Gayle in MD
02-13-2011, 10:30 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stretch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Grow up.

Q </div></div>

LWW is sounding more and more like a Special Ed dropout. Which probably accounts for his irrational hatred of teachers. St. </div></div>

Is there any group that the right doesn't hate?

The right will never admit, that the Bush Admistration destroyed this country. Lied us into an un-necessary war, for their oil cronies. Destroyed our balanced budget, our honor in the eyse of the world, our econoomy, and divided our country.

It's a no brainer, Rumsfeld, Bush, Cheney, Rice, they all LIED!

Now, can you believe that there are psople stupid enough to deny that the Bush/cheney/Rice/Rumsfeld combined history of being up to their eyes in colusion with the OIL Industry, had nothing to do with it!!! Even though Greenspan said it clearly!

"My understanding is that the Iraq War is about OIL." Alan Greenspan

Nixon, Bush, Reagan, Bush 2, North, Rumsfeld, Rove, Libby, the list of Republican Liars goes on and on, they all lied, and all committed obstruction of Justice, and most committed Treason.

There can never be reasoned debate, nor adult discussion with those who are grossly ignorant, AND simultaneiously suffer from delusions of gradeur.

Q and Sofla, win every debate, then, the trolling juvenile from La La Land, claims victory.
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Then he is praised and complimented by his juvenile, equally ignorant, peanut gallery, LOL. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif Nothing new, huh?

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

LWW
02-13-2011, 01:06 PM
That was just precious.

LWW

Stretch
02-13-2011, 03:09 PM
Nice post Gayle, even though for all intents and purposes the thread was over after Q nailed him down. Being the sympathetic soul i am though, i felt it necessary to facilitate some further venting by the beaten LWW. It probably saved his pet from a painful kick. My reward is his constant hatred towards us,thus dissipating all that pent up anger and keeping those around him safe. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif St. &lt;&lt;It's a dirty job but someone has to do it&gt;&gt;

Gayle in MD
02-15-2011, 12:27 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stretch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice post Gayle, even though for all intents and purposes the thread was over after Q nailed him down. Being the sympathetic soul i am though, i felt it necessary to facilitate some further venting by the beaten LWW. It probably saved his pet from a painful kick. My reward is his constant hatred towards us,thus dissipating all that pent up anger and keeping those around him safe. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif St. &lt;&lt;It's a dirty job but someone has to do it. </div></div>

Thanks stretch.

As for the Weenie, and his fellow slurpies, who slurp up every Republican lie, including the biggie, the proven FACT, that the Bush Administration, lied us into the war in Iraq, to benefit their oil cronies.

If they haven't been able to figure that out, even though we have libraries of proof, and documentation, including actual clips of their television appearances, who cares what they think.
They are Neotrons, without conscience.

Their posts are too absurd to bother reading. I skip over all of them, when they post directly to me, but their quoted material, which others iinclude in their posts, is proof enough, that they continue to twist reality, to suit their miserably wisted, illogical, political agenda.

If they can't acknowledge, that Bush destroyed us, economically, and emboldened our enemies, what else is there to discuss?

I have posted documented links, for years.

They are all in the archives.

I have no interest in people who have denied reality, consistantly, regardless of the documentation presented to them, for over a decade, on this forum. Documentation is lost, on the party pawns.

G.

Gayle in MD
02-15-2011, 12:29 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What this document shows is that <u>the only people that were sure that Saddam was a threat were inside the Bush administration.</u>
It clearly shows that any info they had on Iraq was shaky, not solid.

Instead of looking for evidence that shows they lied, people should look for evidence that they made an honest mistake. <u>You will find that every excuse can be easily shot down.</u>


Q </div></div>

In his appearances, Rumsfeld has blamed everyone but himself!

The man is OUT THERE!

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif