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LWW
02-11-2011, 04:43 PM
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Islamofascism: Romantics in Western media expect "democracy" to flower from the anti-Mubarak rioting in Cairo. But polling shows Egyptians actually seek strict Islamic rule.

According to a major survey conducted last year by the Pew Research Center, adults in Egypt don't crave Western-style democracy, as pundits have blithely trumpeted throughout coverage of the unrest.

Far from it, the vast majority of them want a larger role for Islam in government. This includes making barbaric punishments, such as stoning adulterers and executing apostates, the law of their country. With the ouster of their secular, pro-American leader, they may get their wish.

Among highlights from the Pew poll:

<span style='font-size: 11pt'> 49% of Egyptians say Islam plays only a "small role" in public affairs under President Hosni Mubarak, while 95% prefer the religion play a "large role in politics."</span>

<span style='font-size: 14pt'> 84% favor the death penalty for people who leave the Muslim faith.</span>

<span style='font-size: 11pt'> 82% support stoning adulterers.</span>

<span style='font-size: 14pt'> 77% think thieves should have their hands cut off.</span>

<span style='font-size: 14pt'> 54% support a law segregating women from men in the workplace.</span>

<span style='font-size: 20pt'> 54% believe suicide bombings that kill civilians can be justified.</span>

<span style='font-size: 17pt'> Nearly half support the terrorist group Hamas.</span>

<span style='font-size: 14pt'> 30% have a favorable opinion of Hezbollah.</span>

<span style='font-size: 11pt'> 20% maintain positive views of al-Qaida and Osama bin Laden.</span>

82% of Egyptians dislike the U.S. the highest unfavorable rating among the 18 Muslim nations Pew surveyed.

This empirical evidence refutes the sympathetic narrative broadcast as a continuous loop in the media over the past fortnight. Even after getting beat up by anti-American mobs, CNN's Anderson Cooper portrayed rioters as largely secular yuppies yearning for modernity and the triumph of human rights over martial law.

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>He and other media elite have it exactly backwards: Egyptians are revolting against Western-style democracy. The Pew poll reveals they do not, in fact, value our principles of individual freedoms, human rights and separation of religion and state.

It is plain they do not want what we want. They want an Islamic theocracy.</span>

And it's highly irresponsible for pundits to assume they want what we do. This is serious business, and we need to deal with facts and reality on the ground and not project our values to make ourselves feel good. The media fatuously whipped up support for a "revolution" at odds with our values and interests.

<span style='font-size: 11pt'>Now, with a U.S. ally expected to step down, the damage may already be done. The well-organized Muslim Brotherhood, previously outlawed by Mubarak, is in the best position to take advantage of the prevailing sentiment recorded by Pew.</span> </div></div>

Jimmy Carter's second term: (http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/562840/201102101920/What-Egyptians-Really-Do-Want.htm)

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LWW

Soflasnapper
02-11-2011, 05:34 PM
Do you get all your material from Rush? He was making the Obama = 2nd Carter term argument earlier today.

Egyptians, like most of the peoples in Arab countries 'friendly' to us, hate the fact that the US has supported dictatorial regimes that hold them as vassal subjects. So would you, were you in their position.

It's too bad we've done that (hey, I'm sure we had some excuse or even valid reasons), AND it's too bad the American people do not know the effects of our national security arrangements abroad.

pooltchr
02-11-2011, 06:22 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Egyptians, like most of the peoples in Arab countries 'friendly' to us, hate the fact that the US has supported dictatorial regimes that hold them as vassal subjects. So would you, were you in their position.

</div></div>

So if we support dictators, the world will hate us.
If we take out a dictator (Sadam) the world will hate us.

I guess no matter what we do, the world will hate us.

Steve

Qtec
02-12-2011, 02:00 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So if we support dictators, the world will hate us. </div></div>

Why should the USA who say they stand for freedom and democracy support Dictators and tyrants?

Q

LWW
02-12-2011, 02:39 AM
Oh, I agree that it's too bad we've done this.

That doesn't change that Obama has apparently turned Egypt over to the radicals ... much as Jimmuh Cahtuh turned Iran over to the radicals.

I hate to say this, but at this point the best outcome for the world is probably a brutal military clamp down.

An American style republic ... which institutionalizes the rights of all ... would have been the best outcome.

Democracy is actually among the most evil forms of government ever to be devised. It is mob rule which demands that the rights of the few be trampled in favor of the rights of the many ... always ends in chaos and ultimately in tyranny.

Thank God America has never been a democracy ... at least not yet.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-size: 11pt'>"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on who's for dinner."</span>
-Ben Franklin-</div></div>

LWW

LWW
02-12-2011, 02:43 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Egyptians, like most of the peoples in Arab countries 'friendly' to us, hate the fact that the US has supported dictatorial regimes that hold them as vassal subjects. So would you, were you in their position.

</div></div>

So if we support dictators, the world will hate us.
If we take out a dictator (Sadam) the world will hate us.

I guess no matter what we do, the world will hate us.

Steve </div></div>

Excellent post.

What you have just observed is doublethink in action.

Another is America is hated because we dabble in the internal politics of other nations ... so we must dabble in the internal politics of Egypt.

Another is Bush is a cowboy for attempting to bring freedom to the middle east and is naive if he thinks a free Iraq will lead to others in the region wanting freedom ... so isn't it great that Egyptians are protesting wanting freedom.

LWW

LWW
02-12-2011, 02:43 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So if we support dictators, the world will hate us. </div></div>

Why should the USA who say they stand for freedom and democracy support Dictators and tyrants?

Q </div></div>

Freedom and democracy are incompatible.

LWW

Soflasnapper
02-13-2011, 05:53 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Egyptians, like most of the peoples in Arab countries 'friendly' to us, hate the fact that the US has supported dictatorial regimes that hold them as vassal subjects. So would you, were you in their position.

</div></div>

So if we support dictators, the world will hate us.
If we take out a dictator (Sadam) the world will hate us.

I guess no matter what we do, the world will hate us.

Steve </div></div>

Yep, that's right. The old school conservatives, who style themselves as paleo-conservatives, agree with George Washington, that we should not involve ourselves in foreign matters, intrigue, or any alliances. The American people have been of this isolationist bent when left to their own thinking. It has been a monumental effort to scare the sh!t out of them that makes them support such efforts, which are counterproductive and sold with lies.

As both Pat Buchanan and Ron Paul have explained, the French had big problems in Algeria, including with terrorist opposition, until they LEFT that colony and stopped trying to impose their rule there. Those people have problems with us because we are trying to determine their fates from DC.

This is the honorable Libertarian position, as well as the paleo-conservative position.

Soflasnapper
02-13-2011, 05:56 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Egyptians, like most of the peoples in Arab countries 'friendly' to us, hate the fact that the US has supported dictatorial regimes that hold them as vassal subjects. So would you, were you in their position.

</div></div>

So if we support dictators, the world will hate us.
If we take out a dictator (Sadam) the world will hate us.

I guess no matter what we do, the world will hate us.

Steve </div></div>

Excellent post.

What you have just observed is doublethink in action.

Another is America is hated because we dabble in the internal politics of other nations ... so we must dabble in the internal politics of Egypt.

Another is Bush is a cowboy for attempting to bring freedom to the middle east and is naive if he thinks a free Iraq will lead to others in the region wanting freedom ... so isn't it great that Egyptians are protesting wanting freedom.

LWW </div></div>

Well, one thing is for sure-- we have been disappointed with the election results when we've called for elections. We didn't like the 3 or 4 Iraqi leaders they elected, said so, and demanded replacements. We found it horrible that the Palestinians elected Hamas as their duly constituted leadership.

And to be sure, this Bush doctrine that he was all about spreading freedom and democracy was only the 4th or 5th false reason given as our motivation, when all the other lies were so obviously false that they became 'inoperative.'

LWW
02-14-2011, 02:55 AM
What were the first three false reasons?

BTW ... have you ever read the congressional authorization to use force? Obviously not. Do you recall who actually beat the "Saddam has WMD's stacked like cords of wood!" We all know that the party has demanded that you purge your mind of all memories of the democratic party and American Pravda doing this for 8 long years.

LWW

Soflasnapper
02-14-2011, 06:13 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What were the first three false reasons?

BTW ... have you ever read the congressional authorization to use force? Obviously not. Do you recall who actually beat the "Saddam has WMD's stacked like cords of wood!" We all know that the party has demanded that you purge your mind of all memories of the democratic party and American Pravda doing this for 8 long years.

LWW </div></div>

The House Democrats voted 61% against that measure (82 ayes - 126 nays, or 127 nays, counting then-Rep. Sanders (VT))

The Senate Dems voted 42% against it (29 ayes - 21 nays).

On the GOP side, over 97% supported it in the House, and 98% supported it in the Senate.

So the idea that this was equally supported by Democrats and Republicans is innumeracy gone wild. Or LWW gone wild, your choice.

Sev
02-14-2011, 06:42 PM
CNN interviewed the Google dude over there.

He said, "We dont need Obama.".

LWW
02-15-2011, 01:14 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What were the first three false reasons?

BTW ... have you ever read the congressional authorization to use force? Obviously not. Do you recall who actually beat the "Saddam has WMD's stacked like cords of wood!" We all know that the party has demanded that you purge your mind of all memories of the democratic party and American Pravda doing this for 8 long years.

LWW </div></div>

The House Democrats voted 61% against that measure (82 ayes - 126 nays, or 127 nays, counting then-Rep. Sanders (VT))

The Senate Dems voted 42% against it (29 ayes - 21 nays).

On the GOP side, over 97% supported it in the House, and 98% supported it in the Senate.

So the idea that this was equally supported by Democrats and Republicans is innumeracy gone wild. Or LWW gone wild, your choice.
</div></div>

Somehow ... you didn't answer the question?

LWW

Stretch
02-15-2011, 02:25 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What were the first three false reasons?

BTW ... have you ever read the congressional authorization to use force? Obviously not. Do you recall who actually beat the "Saddam has WMD's stacked like cords of wood!" We all know that the party has demanded that you purge your mind of all memories of the democratic party and American Pravda doing this for 8 long years.

LWW </div></div>

The House Democrats voted 61% against that measure (82 ayes - 126 nays, or 127 nays, counting then-Rep. Sanders (VT))

The Senate Dems voted 42% against it (29 ayes - 21 nays).

On the GOP side, over 97% supported it in the House, and 98% supported it in the Senate.

So the idea that this was equally supported by Democrats and Republicans is innumeracy gone wild. Or LWW gone wild, your choice.
</div></div>

Somehow ... you didn't answer the question?

LWW </div></div>

It must have been an "LWW moment". St.