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LAMas
02-14-2011, 12:48 PM
Will Iran be the next Democracy...wait...it already is?



Iranian police attack pro-Egypt demonstrators in streets of Tehran with tear gas, batons: reports


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/20...l#ixzz1Dxc71VTo (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2011/02/14/2011-02-14_iran_arrests_opposition_leaders_head_of_proegyp t_rally_in_tehran.html#ixzz1Dxc71VTo)
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/20...n.html?dghdghdg (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2011/02/14/2011-02-14_iran_arrests_opposition_leaders_head_of_proegyp t_rally_in_tehran.html?dghdghdg)

Chopstick
02-14-2011, 01:23 PM
Don't worry. Obama is already drafting his apology for it.

Sev
02-14-2011, 01:27 PM
Expect a slaughter over there first.

LWW
02-14-2011, 05:41 PM
There is no reason for the regime to support the move for "DEMOCRACY" in Iran ... they have already toppled a US ally and installed an Islamic theocracy.

LWW

Soflasnapper
02-14-2011, 05:55 PM
they have already toppled a US ally and installed an Islamic theocracy

A theocracy that is nowhere in sight? You're hallucinating.

bobroberts
02-14-2011, 06:20 PM
Their supreme leader are already calling the protesters bodies.
They locked up already 100 people and said they will fire to kill without warning because they look at this as a group of traitors instead of their citizens.

Sev
02-14-2011, 06:31 PM
1 dead already.
So it begins.

I wonder if Obama will have the balls to back the rebels when the killing begins.

LAMas
02-14-2011, 08:59 PM
"...Iran’s Ayatallohs

Iran’s Ayatollahs have crushed their own <span style='font-size: 11pt'>democratic reform </span>movement and their free press. They have <span style='font-size: 11pt'>betrayed the democratic hopes of the revolution </span>that overthrew the Shah, <span style='font-size: 11pt'>replacing it with a religious autocracy that ignores or fixes elections</span>...."

http://www.theglobalist.com/StoryId.aspx?StoryId=4468

LWW
02-15-2011, 01:21 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">they have already toppled a US ally and installed an Islamic theocracy

A theocracy that is nowhere in sight? You're hallucinating. </div></div>

I will never understand the left's ability to deny evil when it stares them in the face:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Iran is a constitutional, Islamic theocracy. Its official religion is the doctrine of the Twelver Jaafari School.[1] Iran's law against blasphemy derives from Sharia. Blasphemiers are usually charged with "spreading corruption on earth", or mofsed-e-filarz, which can also be applied to criminal or political crimes. The law against blasphemy complements laws against criticizing the Islamic regime, insulting Islam, and publishing materials that deviate from Islamic standards.[1] The regime uses these laws to persecute religious minorities such as the Sunni, Bahai, Sufi, and Christians and to persecute dissidents and journalists. Persecuted individuals are subject to surveillance by the "religious police," harassment, prolonged detention, mistreatment, torture, and execution.[1][2][3] The courts have acquitted vigilantes who killed in the belief that their victims were engaged in un-Islamic activities. </div></div>

OH DEAR! (http://www.uscirf.gov/images/AR2009/iran.pdf)

OH MY! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law_in_Iran#cite_note-US_Iran-0)

LWW

cushioncrawler
02-15-2011, 05:22 AM
I kood never understand why everyone thort that getting rid of the shah woz good -- he woz a fairly good tyrant.
mac.

Qtec
02-15-2011, 05:37 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I kood never understand why everyone thort that getting rid of the shah woz good -- he woz a fairly good tyrant.
mac. </div></div>

Did you live there?

Q

LWW
02-15-2011, 05:48 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I kood never understand why everyone thort that getting rid of the shah woz good -- he woz a fairly good tyrant.
mac. </div></div>

He was a loyal ally of the US, he was anti Soviet, and he was pro peace with Israel.

To the far left that's the trifecta of evil.

LWW

LWW
02-15-2011, 05:48 AM
Did you?

LWW

Qtec
02-15-2011, 06:28 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> He was a loyal ally of the US, he was anti Soviet, and he was pro peace with Israel.</div></div>


.........and to you he's a wet dream.

Q

Sev
02-15-2011, 06:37 AM
If you notice with the exception of Iran all the countries that are having demonstrations are US allies.

If the Muslim brotherhood rise up and manage to take power in a number of these countries the clock will moved to the 11th hour for Israel.

IF Israel Nukes northern Africa and all of western Asia on its way out the world terrorist problem will be solved.

LWW
02-15-2011, 06:50 AM
Please ... keep your homoerotic thoughts to yourself.

LWW

cushioncrawler
02-15-2011, 03:38 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did you live there? Q</div></div>
Mohammad Rezā Shāh Pahlavi, Shah of Iran (Persian: محمدرضا شاه پهلوی ; [mohæmˈmæd reˈzɒː ˈʃɒːhe pæhlæˈviː]; 26 October 1919 – 27 July 1980), ruled Iran from 16 September 1941 until his overthrow by the Iranian Revolution on 11 February 1979. He was the second and last monarch of the House of Pahlavi of the Iranian monarchy. Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi held several titles: His Imperial Majesty, Shahanshah (King of Kings,[1] Emperor), Aryamehr (faith of the Aryans) and Bozorg Arteshtārān (Head of the Warriors,[2] Persian: بزرگ ارتشتاران).

Pahlavi came to power during World War II after an Anglo-Soviet invasion forced the abdication of his father Reza Shah. His rule oversaw the nationalization of the Iranian oil industry under the prime ministership of Mohammad Mosaddeq. During the Shah's reign, Iran marked the anniversary of 2,500 years of continuous monarchy since the founding of the Persian Empire by Cyrus the Great. His White Revolution – a series of economic and social reforms intended to transform Iran into a global power – succeeded in modernizing the nation, nationalizing many natural resources and extending suffrage to women.

A Secular Muslim himself, the Shah gradually lost support from the Shi'a clergy of Iran, particularly due to his strong policy of modernization, secularization and conflict with the traditional class of merchants known as bazaari, and recognition of Israel. Clashes with the Islamists, increased communist activity and a 1953 period of political disagreements with Mohammad Mosaddeq – eventually leading to Mosaddeq's ousting – caused the Shah's opponents to disagree and overthrow his rule.

Various controversial policies were enacted, including the banning of the communist Tudeh Party and a general suppression of political dissent by Iran's intelligence agency, SAVAK. Amnesty International reported that Iran had as many as 2,200 political prisoners in 1978. By 1979, political unrest had transformed into a revolution which, on 16 January, forced the Shah to leave Iran. Soon thereafter, the revolutionary forces transformed the government into an Islamic republic.

pooltchr
02-15-2011, 03:52 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I kood never understand why everyone thort that getting rid of the shah woz good -- he woz a fairly good tyrant.
mac. </div></div>

Did you live there?

Q </div></div>

That's a strange question, coming from someone who doesn't live in the US, but loves to tell us all how we should run our country!

Steve

cushioncrawler
02-15-2011, 03:52 PM
With Iran's great oil wealth, Mohammad Reza Shah became the pre-eminent leader of the Middle East, and self-styled "Guardian" of the Persian Gulf. In 1961 he defended his style of rule, saying "when Iranians learn to behave like Swedes, I will behave like the King of Sweden."[25]

cushioncrawler
02-15-2011, 03:53 PM
The Shah made major changes to curb the power of certain ancient elite factions by expropriating large and medium-sized estates for the benefit of more than four million small farmers. In the White Revolution, he took a number of major modernization measures, including extending suffrage to women, in accordance to the Islamic Law, the participation of workers in factories through shares and other measures, the improvement of the educational system through new elementary schools and literacy courses set up in remote villages by the Imperial Iranian Armed Forces. The latter step was called "Sepāh e Dānesh", "Army of Knowledge". As part of the White Revolution, the Armed Forces were engaged in infrastructural and other educational projects throughout the country ("Sepāh e Tarvij va Âbādāni") as well as in health education and promotion ("Sepāh e Behdāsht"). Moreover, he instituted exams for Islamic theologians to become established clerics. As a further step, in the seventies the governmental program of a free of charge nourishment for children at school ("Taghzieh e Rāigān") was implemented. Under the Shah's reign, the national Iranian income showed an unprecedented rise.

In the field of diplomacy, Iran realized and maintained friendly relations with Western and East European countries as well as the state of Israel and China and became, especially through the close friendship with the United States, more and more a hegemonial power in the Persian Gulf region and the Middle East. The suppression of the communist guerilla movement in the region of Dhofar in Oman with the help of the Iranian army after a formal request by Sultan Qaboos was widely regarded in this context. As to infrastructural and technological progress, the Shah continued and developed further the policies introduced by his father. As part of his programs, projects in several technologies, such as steel, telecommunications, petrochemical facilities, power plants, dams and the automobile industry may be named.

In terms of cultural activities, international cooperations were encouraged and organized, such as the Shiraz Arts Festival. Many Iranian students were sent to and supported in foreign, especially Western countries and the Indian subcontinent. The Aryamehr University of Technology was established as a major new academic institution.[29][30][31]

cushioncrawler
02-15-2011, 04:00 PM
In the 1990s and the decade following 2000, the Shah's reputation has staged something of a revival, with many Iranians looking back on his era as a time when Iran was more prosperous[59][60] and the government less oppressive.[61] Younger generation of Iranians find it "impossible to understand what their parents were so passionate about."[62] Journalist Afshin Molavi reports even members of the uneducated poor – traditionally core supporters of the revolution that overthrew the Shah – making remarks such as 'God bless the Shah's soul, the economy was better then;' and finds that "books about the former Shah (even censored ones) sell briskly," while "books of the Rightly Guided Path sit idle."[63]

cushioncrawler
02-15-2011, 04:01 PM
Under Mohammad Reza Pahlavi's father, the government supported advancements by women against child marriage, polygamy, exclusion from public society, and education segregation. However, independent feminist political groups were shut down and forcibly integrated into one state-created institution, which maintained many paternalistic views. Despite substantial opposition from Shiite religious jurists, the Iranian feminist movement, led by activists such as Fatemah Sayyeh, achieved further advancement under Mohammad Reza Pahlavi. His regime's changes focused on the civil sphere, and private-oriented family law remained restrictive, although the 1967 and 1975 Family Protection Laws attempted to reform this trend.[64] Specifically, women gained the right to become ministers such as Farrokhroo Parsa and judges such as Shirin Ebadi, as well as any other profession regardless of their sex.

Soflasnapper
02-15-2011, 06:17 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">they have already toppled a US ally and installed an Islamic theocracy

A theocracy that is nowhere in sight? You're hallucinating. </div></div>

I will never understand the left's ability to deny evil when it stares them in the face:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Iran is a constitutional, Islamic theocracy. Its official religion is the doctrine of the Twelver Jaafari School.[1] Iran's law against blasphemy derives from Sharia. Blasphemiers are usually charged with "spreading corruption on earth", or mofsed-e-filarz, which can also be applied to criminal or political crimes. The law against blasphemy complements laws against criticizing the Islamic regime, insulting Islam, and publishing materials that deviate from Islamic standards.[1] The regime uses these laws to persecute religious minorities such as the Sunni, Bahai, Sufi, and Christians and to persecute dissidents and journalists. Persecuted individuals are subject to surveillance by the "religious police," harassment, prolonged detention, mistreatment, torture, and execution.[1][2][3] The courts have acquitted vigilantes who killed in the belief that their victims were engaged in un-Islamic activities. </div></div>

OH DEAR! (http://www.uscirf.gov/images/AR2009/iran.pdf)

OH MY! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law_in_Iran#cite_note-US_Iran-0)

LWW
</div></div>

Re-reading my own post just now, it made no sense even to me. Of course, Iran is a theocracy.

I think I mistakenly thought the reference was to Egypt having installed a theocracy, which is not yet true, even though the context above my post doesn't support that interpretation.

Soflasnapper
02-15-2011, 06:23 PM
Yes, except for all that pesky torture and oppression, the Shah was fine. Somehow the people thought that the torture and oppression was bad at the time. Those who now look back with fondness did not see or experience the torture and oppression, so they have an idyllic view of a halcyon age that was almost perfect. It wasn't.

The Shah's dreaded Savak secret police learned all the latest and greatest torture techniques from our CIA.

LWW
02-16-2011, 03:40 AM
BRAVO!

In my book, in spite of our differences, you have just lifted yourself head and shoulders above the rest of the cabal ... which still insists upon living in abject denial of the many times they have been proven wrong.

LWW

LWW
02-16-2011, 03:59 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, except for all that pesky torture and oppression, the Shah was fine. Somehow the people thought that the torture and oppression was bad at the time. Those who now look back with fondness did not see or experience the torture and oppression, so they have an idyllic view of a halcyon age that was almost perfect. It wasn't.

The Shah's dreaded Savak secret police learned all the latest and greatest torture techniques from our CIA. </div></div>

And that's a valid point.

To truly comprehend it, we must look deeper.

The middle east is a very odd area in humanity.

Until the British came through, they were largely still living in the eleventh century.

Their religion became their culture and it caused their society, their economy, and their technology to atrophy.

Until the mid twentieth century, even the ruling class lived a middle ages lifestyle.

Then suddenly, oil wealth appeared. With it came jets, tanks, cars, radio, television and modern life.

Change involves the unknown, and being human many feared the unknown. America itself went through quite a shock from 1900 to 1950 with the technology explosion. Now imagine a culture where the grandfather rode a camel and climbed trees barefoot to pick figs for survival ... the son became a billionaire ... and the grandson, who learned the Wahabbi way from the grandfather and you have a society which produces Bin Laden.

To use America as an example, we produced the racist KKK about 140 years ago. They flourished by having a few leaders who were wealthy and educated who incited a membership that was largely illiterate and very fearful of the changes surrounding them.

The KKK as a the military wing of the democratic party needed something simple to understand to use as the foci of hate for the mob. AL Qaeda needs the same thing. The Klan used the negro and the yankee, AQ uses the Jew and the infidel. This is a basic principle of Alinskyism ... personalize the problem to a person of group.

Now, the US south floundered as a societal backwater as long as the Klan was allowed to thrive and promote waves of terror ... much as the middle east has done.

Nations such as Egypt and Iran and Iraq remained largely terror free as they would go after the jihadis with a furor, and they prospered culturally relative to their surrounding nations.

Governors and presidents who had the stones to finally stomp a mud hole in the Klan and walk it dry allowed the south to spring from a jerkwater region to the leading areas of the country.

Now, this isn't a total support for what the Shah did ... but he did it with far greater respect for human rights than Saddam or Mubarak.

In hindsight, what the US should have done with the Shah is help to institute western institutions such as independent legislatures and a judiciary and help ease them to a more western style republic.

We did that with Japan and Europe post WWII and we did it with eastern Europe after the wall fell.

We are doing it now in Iraq.

You can't boil it down to say the Shah was a bad guy just because he had some bad guys dealt with. The alternative would have been an Islamic theocracy decades sooner.

LWW