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Qtec
02-15-2011, 04:15 AM
how Republicans rule...badly (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/15/education/15texas.html?hpw)


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All across Texas, school superintendents are bracing for <span style='font-size: 14pt'>the largest cuts to public education since World War II,</span> and the state is not alone. Schools across the country are in trouble as billions in emergency stimulus grants from the federal government have run out, and state and federal lawmakers have interpreted the victory of fiscal hawks in November’s midterm elections to mean that tax increases are out of the question.

Nowhere has that political trend been more potent than in Texas, where Republicans who ran on a promise to never raise taxes not only retained every statewide office, but also added to their majorities in both houses of the Legislature.

Gov. Rick Perry, easily re-elected in November, made it clear in his annual speech to lawmakers last week that he regarded raising revenue for schools as out of the question, saying Texas families “sent a pretty clear message with their November votes.” He has also refused to consider using $9.4 billion in a reserve fund to bail out the schools.

“They want government to be even leaner and more efficient,” Mr. Perry said, “and they want us to balance the budget without raising taxes on families and employers.”

To balance the budget with cuts alone, the governor and <span style='font-size: 17pt'>Republican leaders in the Legislature have put forth bills that would reduce the state’s public school budget by at least 13 percent — nearly $3.5 billion a year — and would provide no new money to schools for about 85,000 new students that arrive in Texas every year. School administrators predict that as many as 100,000 school employees would have to be laid off to absorb the cuts.</span>

Not only are the proposed cuts to school aid draconian, but in addition the Legislature in 2006 put strict limits on how much districts can raise local property taxes. That means local school boards find themselves trapped amid rising enrollment, double-digit drops in state aid and frozen local taxes.

Many school administrators attribute the current budget crisis to an overhaul of the school finance system five years ago, which Mr. Perry and Republican leaders pushed through in response to popular anger over high property taxes. <u>The Legislature put a cap on property taxes for schools and promised to make up the difference with a new business tax.<span style='font-size: 14pt'> But that tax has never produced enough revenue to make the districts’ budgets whole.</span></u>

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>The chronic shortfall in money for schools was papered over in the last two-year budget passed in 2009. Mr. Perry and Republican leaders in the Legislature used about $3.3 billion in federal aid under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act to plug the hole. That aid has disappeared this year.</span> </div></div>


Q

LWW
02-15-2011, 04:37 AM
BRAVO!

It's about time a state stood up to the NEA thugs.

LWW

Qtec
02-15-2011, 05:14 AM
ie the middle class/ working class/ Joe six-pack............

Bravo. We all know now that you are a brain washed slave of your betters, the elite.

Q

LWW
02-15-2011, 05:33 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ie the middle class/ working class/ Joe six-pack............

Q </div></div>

No ... the sell out the voters public union regime sycophants which work 9 months a year for 150% of the average US wage plus exorbitant benefits.

Nobody would really mind that if our schools weren't failing.

LWW

Qtec
02-15-2011, 05:35 AM
You should just fire them all. Illegals will take their jobs and do it for $5 a hour, without benefits.

Q

LWW
02-15-2011, 05:44 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You should just fire them all. Illegals will take their jobs and do it for $5 a hour, without benefits.

Q </div></div>

Not all, but about 90% of them.

Illegals should be deported.

Next ridiculous statement please.

LWW

Stretch
02-15-2011, 08:15 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You should just fire them all. Illegals will take their jobs and do it for $5 a hour, without benefits.

Q </div></div>

Not all, but about 90% of them.

Illegals should be deported.

Next ridiculous statement please.

LWW </div></div>

You're doing just fine on your own. St.

eg8r
02-15-2011, 08:49 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Republican leaders in the Legislature have put forth bills that would reduce the state’s public school budget by at least 13 percent — nearly $3.5 billion a year — and would provide no new money to schools for about 85,000 new students that arrive in Texas every year. School administrators predict that as many as 100,000 school employees would have to be laid off to absorb the cuts.
</div></div>Hey qtip, any chance you are going to do the due diligence in tracking down the number of students leaving the system every year? Don't you think it would be important to know the delta instead of just the additions? Or does that not help your fantasy "point"?

Also, why don't I see you ever attack these school administrators for not finding other areas to cut instead of teachers? Also, why don't we ever see you make a post about weeding out the dead weight teachers (are you stupid enough to think they are all worth their salary)? A budget cut of 13% is high but it is not any different than the private industry goes through every year.

Why don't we ever see a post from you questioning a Democratic government for not forcing budget cuts?

eg8r

Gayle in MD
02-15-2011, 09:45 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> how Republicans rule...badly (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/15/education/15texas.html?hpw)


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All across Texas, school superintendents are bracing for <span style='font-size: 14pt'>the largest cuts to public education since World War II,</span> and the state is not alone. Schools across the country are in trouble as billions in emergency stimulus grants from the federal government have run out, and state and federal lawmakers have interpreted the victory of fiscal hawks in November’s midterm elections to mean that tax increases are out of the question.

Nowhere has that political trend been more potent than in Texas, where Republicans who ran on a promise to never raise taxes not only retained every statewide office, but also added to their majorities in both houses of the Legislature.

Gov. Rick Perry, easily re-elected in November, made it clear in his annual speech to lawmakers last week that he regarded raising revenue for schools as out of the question, saying Texas families “sent a pretty clear message with their November votes.” He has also refused to consider using $9.4 billion in a reserve fund to bail out the schools.

“They want government to be even leaner and more efficient,” Mr. Perry said, “and they want us to balance the budget without raising taxes on families and employers.”

To balance the budget with cuts alone, the governor and <span style='font-size: 17pt'>Republican leaders in the Legislature have put forth bills that would reduce the state’s public school budget by at least 13 percent — nearly $3.5 billion a year — and would provide no new money to schools for about 85,000 new students that arrive in Texas every year. School administrators predict that as many as 100,000 school employees would have to be laid off to absorb the cuts.</span>

Not only are the proposed cuts to school aid draconian, but in addition the Legislature in 2006 put strict limits on how much districts can raise local property taxes. That means local school boards find themselves trapped amid rising enrollment, double-digit drops in state aid and frozen local taxes.

Many school administrators attribute the current budget crisis to an overhaul of the school finance system five years ago, which Mr. Perry and Republican leaders pushed through in response to popular anger over high property taxes. <u>The Legislature put a cap on property taxes for schools and promised to make up the difference with a new business tax.<span style='font-size: 14pt'> But that tax has never produced enough revenue to make the districts’ budgets whole.</span></u>

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>The chronic shortfall in money for schools was papered over in the last two-year budget passed in 2009. Mr. Perry and Republican leaders in the Legislature used about $3.3 billion in federal aid under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act to plug the hole. That aid has disappeared this year.</span> </div></div>


Q </div></div>

Bush's irrational act of NCLB, followed by his cutting funding for his own educational program, already has had teachers using their own money, to buy teaching aides to educate their classes, for years.

Our kids, many who get no exercise, are obese, and under Bush, for years, have had less exercise, due to cuts in physical education, throughout Bush's administration.

This of course, adds to our health costs, as obesity is the MAIN cause of higher health costs.

The problem with Republicans, is that they NEVER see the big picture, and have no ability to think long range, about any problem, as they proved in their responses to the president's budget.

The Repigs are the quick fix party, which always leaves the country worse off than how they found it.

The finger pointing isn't going to work forever. Sooner or later, Republicans are going to have to do SOMETHING! Pot shots from the side lines, are getting old, fast.

Time is drawing near when they will have to do something, or get off the pot!

The president's new budget is excellent, for example, cuts which were right in line with the deficit commission's suggestions.

The ball is in their court, and the Repigs, still have offered nothing, just the same pot shots, followed by blank faced non responses, when pressed to state their own policy.

Obama is playing them perfectly! LOL /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif AGAIN!

G.

justnum
02-15-2011, 10:18 AM
Talking about who is cutting the budget and who is increasing spending is great for headlines and ads. What disappoints students is when no one can identify what past funding has been used for? The Race to the Top program granted NYC funding last year, this year the Mayor, who is in charge of funding for the city and recently city schools, is planning to cut at least 5000 teachers. How did the Race to the Top funding contribute to the problem? It seems the money was spent on expanding schools and supporting short term teachers. The permanent damage would be that principals now house more students with fewer teachers, giving them grounds for more funding.

The big points are teacher jobs and budget size. The concern few people discuss is what happened and who is willing to say what went wrong. How did we get into these problems? Is the government a Madoff scheme trying to stay afloat with more credit?

Why politicians inflate these problems into ideological goals about society is insulting because it reveals they think I am an idiot.

What is obvious is they are selling me on a campaign story. What I know is that when people have money they like to spend it on people that will support and legitimize their power, like the US and Mubarak. Where are the opinions of parents and students in this discussion portrayed through the newspapers, media and internet? It is lacking because it doesn't contribute into the political battle created by news moguls.

Obama considers the education system a failure as seen through an international standard of measurement because of the US low ranking on that standard. The universities and colleges would know whether or not the students are not measuring up because they are the ones who enforce higher standards on them. Obama would do better to strengthen partnerships between higher education institutions and secondary school systems. Higher education institutions is the goal for students in secondary systems what should be made clearer is how to transition, not how to outperform other students.

pooltchr
02-15-2011, 10:22 AM
Gayle, Gayle, Gayle.

I commend you for attempting to blame this one on Bush, but as we say in the south, that dog won't hunt!

Obama, in his infinite wisdom, threw a lot of "stimulus" money out there last year which artificially propped up a lot of state spending. The problem is, it was only temporary, so it really just postponed the cuts for a year. Now that the "stimulus" is gone, states are having to cover two years of budget cuts in one year.

Furthermore, the federal government has no business being involved in public education. They offer tax money, but force school districts to impliment their programs in exchange for the money. Maybe if Washington left the schools to do what they were designed to do, ie, teach students, the schools would run better with less money. Federal programs do nothing to help the class room...they simply increase the size of the school administrations. And administrators do not teach students anything.

Steve

justnum
02-15-2011, 10:26 AM
As a politician if you don't provide funding or additional spending then they can't take credit for positive changes or growth. Obama gave himself the opportunity as Bush did but the story they are selling is an old one people are savvy to now.

The world of a politician is not about getting work done, it is about taking credit the results of the work done. I don't mean to be preachy it is just your points focus on who gets things done as opposed to how it relates to who gets to take credit for things getting done.

The important feature of being a politician is that the media has to listen to what you say. And the politician knows they represent values or opinions Americans hold dear.

LAMas
02-15-2011, 10:39 AM
"Reacting to the administration’s budget, Representative John Kline, the Minnesota Republican who is chairman of the House Education and the Workforce Committee, indicated a reluctance to invest more in education.

“Over the last 45 years we have increased our investment in education, but the return on that investment has failed to improve student achievement,” Mr. Kline said. “Throwing more money at our nation’s broken education system ignores reality and does a disservice to students and taxpayers.”"

Gayle in MD
02-15-2011, 12:02 PM
<span style="color: #990000">Thank you for your very well presented post.

I'd like to respond by asking you some questions, about your views and statements. </span>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: justnum</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Talking about who is cutting the budget and who is increasing spending is great for headlines and ads. What disappoints students is when no one can identify what past funding has been used for?

<span style="color: #990000">I agree, and isn't that greatly impacted by parental involvement in local educational systems? </span>

The Race to the Top program granted NYC funding last year, this year the Mayor, who is in charge of funding for the city and recently city schools, is planning to cut at least 5000 teachers. How did the Race to the Top funding contribute to the problem? It seems the money was spent on expanding schools and supporting short term teachers. The permanent damage would be that principals now house more students with fewer teachers, giving them grounds for more funding.

<span style="color: #990000"> <span style="color: #990000">So you are saying that the bad result was due to the way the Mayor used the money? </span> </span>

The big points are teacher jobs and budget size. The concern few people discuss is what happened and who is willing to say what went wrong. How did we get into these problems?

<span style="color: #990000">IMO, the problems began, and grew to critically bad results, under No child Left Behind, when it led to teachers losing precious teaching time, over concerns about test scores, which did nothing to improve results in the classrooms, along with the cuts to the program, by Bush, after he misled Ted Kennedy, about his dedication to properly funding it...

I am speaking from my own experience, and from talking with teachers in Maryland, supposedly the top performance state.

I'd also mention, accoding to my research, the best scores are in regions which have the strongest Teacher's Unions.</span>


Is the government a Madoff scheme trying to stay afloat with more credit?

<span style="color: #990000">I'd say that to some degree, that has been a necessary result, a necessary evil, if you will, (though temporary) due to the critical condition our country was left to recover from, after the Bush administration, failed to heed vast warnings about fraud on Wall Street, and failed to divert a collapsed economy, resulting, largely, from no regulatory oversight, by his appointees, which nearly caused a Great Depression.

Given that Bush also left us stuck in two on-going wars, the Iraq War being an extremely expensive war, and wasted our budget surplus, and doubled our deficits, we were not in a strong postion to improve much of anything, just to try to send aid to states, in order to keep the public schools systems open, and hence, our teachers working. the state of our school systems, was already in a state of decline, due to NCLB, and remained in decline, throughout Bush's tenure.</span>

Why politicians inflate these problems into ideological goals about society is insulting because it reveals they think I am an idiot.

<span style="color: #990000">Well, I think that the level of education available to our students, and our ability to compete with other countries, going forward, is part of our ideology as a nation.

I also think that educational success, is a local phenomenon, unless we are coping with critical economic situations. OUr educational success, is determined by the quality of our teachers, but also, and usually the source of neglect, it depends even more on parental involvement, which, IMO, and in many states, is sorely lacking. </span>

What is obvious is they are selling me on a campaign story. What I know is that when people have money they like to spend it on people that will support and legitimize their power, like the US and Mubarak. Where are the opinions of parents and students in this discussion portrayed through the newspapers, media and internet?

<span style="color: #660000">Exactly! </span>

It is lacking because it doesn't contribute into the political battle created by news moguls.

<span style="color: #660000">Partly true, but still, it is a local issue, IMO. The reporting should be handled in each region, and those opinions of the students and parents, should be given the appropriate local attention.</span>



Obama considers the education system a failure as seen through an international standard of measurement because of the US low ranking on that standard.

<span style="color: #660000">I have often heard him address the problem, too many drop outs, not enough students seeking and continuing higher education. Yes, it is a very bad problem, and it is surely connected to the loss of wage power of Middle Class Americans, and our continued efforts to recover from the Bush collapsed economy, and foreign policy failures, which have been hugely costly, and robbed our country of financial power to address the many other domestic issues, which were completly ignored throghout the Bush Tenure, including the growing threat to all of us from unsustainable Health Care and Health Insurance costs. </span>


The universities and colleges would know whether or not the students are not measuring up because they are the ones who enforce higher standards on them.

<span style="color: #660000">I haven't heard the president knock our Universities, and colleges. People come from all over the world, to get their higher education, here in America, but I have heard his concerrn over the fact that so many come here for their education, and then leave, and go home, leaving a void in the number of graduates with enough education, in the coming fields, to contribute to American growth in technology. </span>


Obama would do better to strengthen partnerships between higher education institutions and secondary school systems.

<span style="color: #660000">Well, that is exactly what he has stted he intends to do.

I think, that overall, we cannot discuss our country moving forward without considering the damages we are currently trying to overcome, which were vast, and not easily reversed. We WERE, after all, facing the most critical economic threat since the Great Depression. It does, after all, take time to recover after eight years of critically failed policies, and the results of being wiped out, by corruption on Wall Street, which lost us over a third of our wealth. We have to walk, before we can run, and we have one political Party which has invested itself in seeing the President fail, focused solely on their Political well being, annd leaving our critical situation, behind, unwilling to legislate, and unwilling to address anyting but damaging this current administration, and all at a very critical time. </span>

Higher education institutions is the goal for students in secondary systems what should be made clearer is how to transition, not how to outperform other students.


<span style="color: #660000">To this, I would say, in order to have more students who CAN transition to higher education, we have to have a Middle Class, which is not losing economic power, due to tax policies which redistrubute wealth to the wealthiest, and Federal and State expenditures, which offer our college bound students the opportunity to buy that higher education.

Instead, we had eight years of blowing money, on a War in Iraq, which brough no value at all, to our economy, and in fact, helped to destroy it.


We MUST invest in our future, annd our students, ARE our future.

Investing in our country, when we've been knocked on our collective asses by failed policies, and suiffered through eight years of warring while cutting taxes, and borrowoing to pay for all of it, and suffering through Republican Policies which favored only the wealthy, while running up debts on wars which drained our treasure, and raised our costs, followed by a Wall Street Ponzi scheme, which robbed our country of it's collective wealth, which was stolen, by the top one to two percent, does not create an economic environment which contributes to growth, solvency, or a successful domestic investment in our ability to compete with other countries.

IOW, we were drained of domestic investment, for eight years, under Bush.

Now we face a collapsing infrastructure, an educational system, which was in decline for eight years, an expensive proposition of ending two wars, an economically drained Middle Class, which had to borrow to keep their heads above water, as food, energy, health and insruance costs, went through the roof, leaving us with many students, whose parents no long had the one asset which they formerly used to to borrow against, to get their kids through college.

And while investment is the ONLY hope we have, to make America, great again, we are faced with a political party, which at a time of economic strife, for all but the top one to two percent, refuses to raise taxes on the top one percent, who do not invest in jobs, nor spend their money in the market place.

As long as Republicans choose to play political gamesmanship, and continue with policies which favor the wealthy, at the expense of the rest, America cannot get out on front, and continue to lead the world, in tomorrow's global economy.

We cannot continue to subsidize corporations which outsource our jobs, with the blood and sweat of the Middle Class, and Upper Middle Class, of our country, WHILE they are being gouged to pieces with higher costs from corporate pigs, whose bonuses have gone through the roof, while everyone else, has lost economic power.

Reducing the tax cuts, for the top, is essential if America is to recover from the Republican trickle down nightmare, which is, in and of itself, a scam.

Nothing, including education, will recover, until we end the Republican party's loyalty, only to the wealthy, and end the Bush Tax cuts for the wealthy.

Why give tax cuts to those who outsource our jobs, and gouge us in the market place, taking billions upon billions in bonuses, captured through fraud, to squrrell away in the private accounts????

When President Obama took over, "Stay The Course" became a thing of the past. the right, then switched to immediate gratification, at a time when we were in the debt ditch.

The right, is willing to Stay The Course, when we are being driven into a debt ditch by failed trickle down VOODOO Economic Republican policies, but they are quick to assume the position of incredible, illogical impatience, while we are digging our way out of the ditch they dug, with their filed policies.

G.</span> </div></div>

pooltchr
02-15-2011, 01:06 PM
Gayle,
Our public school system was in a state of decline long before Bush ever even got in office. NCLB was just another attempt to fix the problem with more money.

As for our colleges, yes, our higher education system is certainly above average. And a good number of those universities manage to do quite well without public funding. Yes, there are state supported schools (but not federally supported) like Maryland, UNC, etc, but how do you explain the success of the Dukes, Harvards, MITs, Davidsons, Wake Forests, etc which are all private schools?? How can they possibly succeed without Washington's "help"?

Steve

LWW
02-15-2011, 02:48 PM
Don't you know Obama fixed education when he was 6 ... and Bush broke it again.

LWW

Qtec
02-16-2011, 02:11 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the largest cuts to public education since World War II, </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">School administrators predict that as many as 100,000 school employees would have to be laid off to absorb the cuts. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The chronic shortfall in money for schools <u>was papered over</u> in the last two-year budget passed in 2009. <u>Mr. Perry and Republican leaders in the Legislature used about $3.3 billion in federal aid under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act to plug the hole.</u></div></div>

ie Stimulus funds.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, abbreviated ARRA (Pub.L. 111-5) and commonly referred to as the Stimulus or The Recovery Act, is an economic stimulus package enacted by the 111th United States Congress in February 2009. </div></div>


You know, the Act they all said they were against and it didn't work etc, etc, while behind the backs of the voters they grabbed it with both hands.

You nitpick while ignoring the real points.

Q

eg8r
02-16-2011, 11:22 AM
Are you going to answer the questions or continuing conversing with the voice in your head?

eg8r

Gayle in MD
02-16-2011, 12:58 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You nitpick while ignoring the real points.

Q </div></div>


<span style="color: #990000">LMAO! You said a mouthful!
It's what the right thinks is reasoned debate, LMAO!</span> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

LWW
02-16-2011, 01:02 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You know, the Act they all said they were against and it didn't work etc, etc, while behind the backs of the voters they grabbed it with both hands.

You nitpick while ignoring the real points.

Q

</div></div>

Actually your claim is entirely backwards.

It was in the nation's best interests that the stimulus not pass.

That being said ... once it has been passed it would be fookish not to take a cut for your district.

As an analogy ... it's foolish to drive the getaway car in a bank heist because it will likely get you a prison term. However, once you have driven the getaway car it would be insane not to take your cut of the loot.

LWW