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Gayle in MD
02-18-2011, 07:39 AM
While the RW press has attacked, and slandered the Middle Class people of Wisconsin, with the usual RW lies and distortions, her State Employees, such as Firemen, Teachers, Policemen, and other Union Members, it will not work.

I am proud to see that LIBERAL DEMOCRATIC REPRESENTATIVES of Wisconsin, have taken a stand to preserve, defend and protect, THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, and the rights of Middle Class Americans, from the organized effort of Republican Governors, and The Republican Party, to destroy those rights.

We have witnessed this RW war on the Middle Class for decades, since the administration of Ronald Reagan.

As Republicans have continued with their socialism for the wealthy, through un-American policies, which redistribute wealth, upwards, to the top one percent, robbing the Middle Class of it's rights and opportunities, we have seen over and over, that ONLY The Democratic Party, has persevered with tjheir effors to protect Middle Class Americans, and their rights to organize and negotiate, and demand decent, safe working environments, and fair pay for the services they provide.


Thankfully, the lies which were spread around by Fox, and other RW organizations, who called these hard working Americans of the Middle Class, THUGS, and lied about their bahavior, and the honorable cause of their peaceful demonstration, which have been as absurd and deceitful as always, they have been exposed through numerous film clips and journalists who have been on the scene, for what they are, LIES..

The usual RW demonaizing of, and lies about those who seek justice, will not fly this time.

Bravo Wisconsins, and Bravo to those conscientious Democratic Representatives, the LIBERAL Heroes who are supporting Wisconsin's Middle Class, and in fact, the Middle Class across America, from the thuggery of the Republican party.


Bravo Democratics, BRAVO LIBERALS, and BRAVO to the Democratic Party, the Party of honor and fairness.

G.

Sev
02-18-2011, 07:51 AM
Blah!! Blah!!!! Blah!!!!!!!!!!!

pooltchr
02-18-2011, 10:47 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Bravo Democratics, BRAVO LIBERALS, and BRAVO to the Democratic Party, the Party of honor and fairness.

G.

</div></div>

Looking at it another way, they are nothing but obstructionists.

Steve

sack316
02-18-2011, 04:11 PM
Just out of curiosity, why shouldn't the workers in question here have to do the same as everyone else (such as the payments into pensions or paying 12.6% of their health coverage for example)?

Sack

Gayle in MD
02-19-2011, 09:25 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just out of curiosity, why shouldn't the workers in question here have to do the same as everyone else (such as the payments into pensions or paying 12.6% of their health coverage for example)?

Sack </div></div>

<span style="color: #660000"> Easy. They aren't the ones who destroyed our economy. That was the crooks on Wall Street, all of whom got away with it except for the least powerful, Madoff.

Why should the Middle Class have to take a hair cut, when the wealthy pigs have gotten off scott free, and two thirds of corporations don't even pay taxes?

We should remove all of the corporat loopholes, indict the OIL CEO's who have been destroying our econogy for decades. Support the only group which can re-build America's economy, the Middle Class, the small business group, and raise taxes on the law breakers, the top one percent.

This isn't a policy for economics, anyway, it is a RW Republicann political maneuver to destroy the power of UNIONS, IOW, Democratic voters, and their right to organize around their labor issues.

The Wealthy Bank CEO's, bilked all of us, and Republicans are stupid enough to attack the weakest among us, those who have suffered the greatest losses from the Bush Fiasco, destroying jobs and opportunities for the segment of our society, which they have been robbing for three decades, Middle Class hard working Americans.

Number one, should be a tax hike, for the filthy rich, who stole from all of the rest of us, and made us ill with their poisonist pollutants.

Secondly, It is absolutely absurd, for the right, to think that we should balance the budget by attacking the Middle Class, by taking more money from those who have sufffered the most from REpublican VOODOO economoics. They are doing nothing to bring in more revenue, which would be the fastest and more effective way to get out of this Bush Recession NEARLY A DEPRESSION, take it from the crooks who robbed all the rest!

Republicans are trying to take away our freedoms, by legislating against the right for collective bargaining. Collective Bargaining has long been a part of our system of Democracy! Just another effort by the Republicans, to suck up to corporate interests, and weaken Democratic voters.

Government Employees have just as much a right to collective bargaining, as any other segment of our society.

Not only is it unconstitional, for a governor to deprive his constituents of a democratic RIGHT, collective bargaining, but it is a cheap political trick, it is bad for our economy, because those who will suffer the most, are those same people whom RW policies have hurt the most. If the Governor of Wisconsin wasn't so determined to gut collective bargaining, none of this would be happening.

No country can build a strong economy, without a strong Middle Class, that is GAINING economic power.

Republicans have spread lies, over and over, in their comparisons of wagers and benefits, between Government Employees, and private employees, balooning the numbers of Government employees wages, those figures have already been proven to be false, but the Republican Party, and their Fux News Propaganda station, continue with their lies. Links have alaredy been posted here, which prove it.

We've already seen, over and over, that their stupid Trickle Down theories, do not work. That cutting taxes is not the solution for paying down the debts.


The Middle Class has lost economic power, every time Republicans have power.

S. I think Clinton was a great president, Bush was the worst ever, but we're doing much better, thanks to President Obama, than where we were when Bush left us on the brink of The Great Bush Depression.

G. </span>

pooltchr
02-19-2011, 10:00 AM
You didn't even attempt to answer the question.
The majority of Americans (working Americans) pay into their retirement plans, 401Ks, or whatever. The majority also pay at least a good percentage of their healthcare insurance costs.

The question was, why should government employees, who already make much more on average than people in compairable positions in the private sector, have these things paid for by the taxpayers?

The answer has nothing to do with Wall Street, corporate America, CEOs, or Bush.

The problem is, you can't come up with a legitimate answer, so once again, you just go into your normal rant mode, and think nobody will notice.

Somebody noticed!

Steve

LWW
02-19-2011, 11:35 AM
If they support the middle class, then why are they wanting to take from the middle class to give to state union employees who make twice what people earn in the private sector for the same job?

It sounds more like they are plundering the middle class to give to the supposed "RULING CLASSS" which you so humbly worship.

LWW

Gayle in MD
02-19-2011, 01:27 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just out of curiosity, why shouldn't the workers in question here have to do the same as everyone else (such as the payments into pensions or paying 12.6% of their health coverage for example)?

Sack </div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-size: 17pt'>State and local public employees are willing to pay more for their pensions and health insurance benefits Walker has called for in the bill, Democratic Sen. Jon Erpenbach said. But, he said, they won't give up their collective bargaining rights. The bill calls for the elimination of collective bargaining except over wage increases not greater than the Consumer Price Index.</span> </div></div>


As you can see, the protestors are only demanding that the Republican governor, end his quest to take away their constitutional rights.

G.

sack316
02-19-2011, 03:10 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just out of curiosity, why shouldn't the workers in question here have to do the same as everyone else (such as the payments into pensions or paying 12.6% of their health coverage for example)?

Sack </div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-size: 17pt'>State and local public employees are willing to pay more for their pensions and health insurance benefits Walker has called for in the bill, Democratic Sen. Jon Erpenbach said. But, he said, they won't give up their collective bargaining rights. The bill calls for the elimination of collective bargaining except over wage increases not greater than the Consumer Price Index.</span> </div></div>


As you can see, the protestors are only demanding that the Republican governor, end his quest to take away their constitutional rights.

G. </div></div>

Then why do they need a CBA at all? Things like labor laws and OSHA pretty well cover everything else useful in a CBA (except for specific wage increases, which you just said they are willing to give up anyway).

And I'm sure they are more than willing to pay more into pensions and insurance if they can hold on to the CBA... at least until it's time to renew those contracts again.

Sack

LWW
02-19-2011, 04:12 PM
What constitutional rights is he wanting to deprive them of?

Under what legal authority is he depriving them?

LWW

Gayle in MD
02-20-2011, 09:32 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sack316</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just out of curiosity, why shouldn't the workers in question here have to do the same as everyone else (such as the payments into pensions or paying 12.6% of their health coverage for example)?

Sack </div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-size: 17pt'>State and local public employees are willing to pay more for their pensions and health insurance benefits Walker has called for in the bill, Democratic Sen. Jon Erpenbach said. But, he said, they won't give up their collective bargaining rights. The bill calls for the elimination of collective bargaining except over wage increases not greater than the Consumer Price Index.</span> </div></div>


As you can see, the protestors are only demanding that the Republican governor, end his quest to take away their constitutional rights.

G. </div></div>

Then why do they need a CBA at all? Things like labor laws and OSHA pretty well cover everything else useful in a CBA (except for specific wage increases, which you just said they are willing to give up anyway).

And I'm sure they are more than willing to pay more into pensions and insurance if they can hold on to the CBA... at least until it's time to renew those contracts again.

Sack </div></div>

They have already given up money, Sack. They have taken cuts in their wages. The protest is about maintaining their constitutional right to collective bargaining, through their UNIONS. We will not always be in the midst of recovering from Bush's crashed economoy, now will we? Sooner or later, our economy will recover, and then they will be left without their constitutional rights to organize.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What's Happening in Wisconsin Explained
By Andy Kroll

The basics:

For days, demonstrators have been pouring into the streets of Madison, Wisconsin—and the halls of the state's Capitol building—to protest rookie Republican Governor Scott Walker's anti-union proposals. Big national unions, both major political parties, the Tea Party, and Andrew Breitbart are already involved. Democratic state senators have fled the state to prevent the legislature from voting on Walker's proposals. And the protests could soon spread to other states, including Ohio.

Is this like Egypt?

No.







What's actually being proposed?

Walker says his legislation, which would strip most state employees of any meaningful collective bargaining rights, is necessary to close the state's $137 million budget gap. There are a number of problems with that argument, though. The unions are not to blame for the deficit, and stripping unionized workers of their collective bargaining rights won't in and of itself save any money. Walker says he needs to strip the unions of their rights to close the gap. But public safety officers' unions, which have members who are more likely to support Republicans and who also tend to have the highest salaries and benefits, are exempted from the new rules. Meanwhile, a series of tax breaks and other goodies that Walker and the Republican legislature passed just after his inauguration dramatically increased the deficit that Walker now says he's trying to close. And Wisconsin has closed a much larger budget gap in the past without scrapping worker organizing rights.

<span style='font-size: 20pt'>What's really going on, as Kevin Drum has explained, is pure partisan warfare: Walker is trying to de-fund the unions that form the backbone of the Democratic party. The unions and the Democrats are, of course, fighting back. The Washington Post's Ezra Klein drops some knowledge [emphasis added]:</span>The best way to understand Walker's proposal is as a multi-part attack on the state's labor unions. In part one, their ability to bargain benefits for their members is reduced. In part two, their ability to collect dues, and thus spend money organizing members or lobbying the legislature, is undercut. And in part three, workers have to vote the union back into existence every single year. Put it all together and it looks like this: Wisconsin's unions can't deliver value to their members, they're deprived of the resources to change the rules so they can start delivering value to their members again, and because of that, their members eventually give in to employer pressure and shut the union down in one of the annual certification elections.

You may think Walker's proposal is a good idea or a bad idea. But that's what it does. And it's telling that he's exempting the unions that supported him and is trying to obscure his plan's specifics behind misleading language about what unions can still bargain for and misleading rhetoric about the state's budget.

Walker's proposals do have important fiscal elements: they roughly double health care premiums for many state employees. But the heart of the proposals, and the controversy, are the provisions that will effectively destroy public-sector unions in the Badger State. As Matt Yglesias notes, this won't destroy the Democratic party. But it will force the party to seek funding from sources other than unions, and that usually means the same rich businessmen who are the main financial backers for the Republican party. Speaking of which....


<span style='font-size: 26pt'>
Who is Scott Walker?

Walker was elected governor in the GOP landslide of 2010, when Republicans also gained control of the Wisconsin state senate and house of representatives. His political career has been bankrolled by Charles and David Koch, the very rich, very conservative, and very anti-union oil-and-gas magnates. Koch-backed groups like Americans for Prosperity, the Cato Institute, the Competitive Enterprise Institute, and the Reason Foundation have long taken a very antagonistic view toward public-sector unions. They've used their vast fortunes to fight key Obama initiatives on health care and the environment, while writing fat checks to Republican candidates across the country. Walker's take for the 2010 election: $43,000 from the Koch Industries PAC, his second highest intake from any one donor. But that's not all!:

The Koch's PAC also helped Walker via a familiar and much-used political maneuver designed to allow donors to skirt campaign finance limits. The PAC gave $1 million to the Republican Governors Association, which in turn spent $65,000 on independent expenditures to support Walker. The RGA also spent a whopping $3.4 million on TV ads and mailers attacking Walker's opponent, Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett. Walker ended up beating Barrett by 5 points. The Koch money, no doubt, helped greatly.</span>What are the Democrats and the unions doing to respond?

Well, they're protesting, obviously—filling the halls of the Capitol and the streets of Madison with bodies and signs. They're calling their representatives and talking about recalling Walker (who cannot be recalled until next January) or any of eight GOP state senators who are eligible for recall right now. Meanwhile, all of the Democratic state senators have left the state in an attempt to deny Republicans the quorum they need to vote on Walker's proposals, but if just one of them returns (or is hauled back by state troopers), the GOP will have the quorum they need. (Interestingly, the head of the state patrol in the father of the Republican heads of the state senate and house of representatives, who are brothers.) Finally, Wisconsin public school teachers have been calling in sick, forcing schools to close while teachers in over a dozen other school districts picket the capitol, plan vigils, and set up phone banks to try to block Walker's effort.

How could this spread?

Other Republican-governed states are trying to mimic Walker's assault on public employee unions. The GOP won a resounding series of state-level victories in high-union-density states in November. Now they can use their newly-won power to crack down on one of the Democrats' biggest sources of funds, volunteers, and political power. Plans are already under consideration in places like Ohio, Indiana, and Michigan.

Speaking of Ohio:

As Suzy Khimm outlined on Friday, an estimated 3,800-5,000 protestors came out in full fury in Columbus, Ohio, to vent their anger over a similar anti-union bill that would limit workers' rights to bargain for health insurance, end automatic pay increases, and infringe upon teachers' rights to pick their classes and schools. As in Wisconsin, both the Ohio state house and governor's mansion flipped from blue to red last year. "This has little to do with balancing this year's budget," former Governor Ted Strickland told the AP. <span style='font-size: 17pt'>"I think it's a power grab. It's an attempt to diminish the rights of working people. I think it's an assault of the middle class of this state and it's so unfair and out of balance."</span>

How are conservatives working to support Walker?:

<span style='font-size: 17pt'>It was only a matter of time till the Tea Party got in on the action. Stephanie Mencimer reports that activists are bussing into Madison, and are "promising a massive counter-demonstration." The push is being led by American Majority, a conservative activist group that trains impressionable young foot soldiers to become state-level candidates (check out their ""I Stand With Scott Walker Rally" Facebook page). Founded by Republican operatives, the well-funded group (which, according to tax fillings, had a budget of nearly $2 million in 2009) gets much of its money from a group with ties to those adorable Koch brothers. Conservative media baron Andrew Breitbart will be leading the rally, and will be joined by presidential candidate Herman Cain and maybe—if we're lucky—Joe "The Plumber" Wurtzelbacher. Expect fireworks.</span>

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/02/whats-happening-wisconsin-explained
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pooltchr
02-20-2011, 10:44 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The protest is about maintaining their constitutional right to collective bargaining, through their UNIONS.
</div></div>

Can you tell us where specifically, the constitution gives everyone the right to collective bargaining through unions?
I seem to have missed that part.

Steve

LWW
02-20-2011, 04:30 PM
Why are the democrooks being the party of NO! to change?

Why are they thwarting the will of the people?

Elections have consequences.

They lost.

LWW

LWW
02-20-2011, 04:32 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[The protest is about maintaining their constitutional right to collective bargaining, through their UNIONS.</div></div>

Can you cite where the COTUS says this?

What's that?

It doesn't?

You were spoon fed the lie you wanted to hear and that's all that matters to you?

Imagine that.

LWW

Sev
02-20-2011, 06:14 PM
Even FDR was not in favor of collective bargaining.

LWW
02-21-2011, 01:49 AM
We have both beat the hornet's nest by bringing in the truth, we know how it riles them so.

To Gee ... if dear leader says they have a constitutional right then she accepts it as holy writ.

Until dear leader tells her otherwise of course.

LWW