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View Full Version : Wisconsin is about power, not money



Qtec
02-23-2011, 03:18 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You've probably heard politicians fret that state governments - or, worse, the federal government - will default on their debts. House Speaker John A. Boehner called the prospect of a federal default "a financial disaster not only for our country, but for the worldwide economy." Nasty stuff.

But it's worth asking why a default would be such a problem. Can't we just launch a missile at our creditors, or promise to do better next time? Well, no. Our creditors have power over us. If the actors who make up the entity we loosely refer to as "the market" -- that means everyone from banks to hedge funds to China -- don't get paid back, they'll go nuts. They'll realize we're fiscally irresponsible. They'll stop lending us money, or at least start charging us more when they do. Interest rates will skyrocket, and the economy will grind to a halt.

So America's various governmental entities are looking for ways to avoid defaulting on their debt -- or at least defaulting on their debt to the powerful.<u> That addendum is important, because one of the strategies that's emerging is to default on debt to the less powerful, the people who don't have the power to wreck our economy.</u>

This is a crucial fact about the economy, and one often underplayed by economists: power matters. It's worth more, in many cases, than money. And that's what's really at issue in Wisconsin. <span style='font-size: 14pt'>It's why Gov. Scott Walker is uninterested in taking concessions from the unions on wages and benefits if they don't come alongside concessions on collective bargaining. <span style="color: #990000">What he wants isn't a change in the balance of payments. It's a change in the balance of power.</span></span>

<span style='font-size: 17pt'>The deal Wisconsin made with its state employees was simple: Accept lower wages than you could get in the private sector now in return for better pensions and health-care benefits when you retire. Now Walker wants to renege on that deal.</span>

Rather than stiff the banks, in other words, he wants to stiff the teachers -- <span style='font-size: 20pt'><span style="color: #3333FF">but the crucial twist he's added, the one that's sent tens of thousands of workers into the streets, is that <u>he wants to make sure they can't fight back once he does it.</u></span></span> </div></div>

link (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2011/02/column_wisconsin_is_about_powe.html)

Q

LWW
02-23-2011, 03:57 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The deal Wisconsin made with its state employees was simple: Accept lower wages than you could get in the private sector now in return for better pensions and health-care benefits when you retire. Now Walker wants to renege on that deal. </div></div>

When the foundation of your thinking is a lie you cannot come to a reasonable conclusion.

Reject the lie and you will begin to find enlightenment.

LWW

Qtec
02-23-2011, 04:02 AM
Another non-post.

Q

LWW
02-23-2011, 04:15 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another non-post.

Q </div></div>

You do that a lot, but to be correct you should say "ANOTHER NON-THREAD."

LWW

Gayle in MD
02-23-2011, 06:02 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You've probably heard politicians fret that state governments - or, worse, the federal government - will default on their debts. House Speaker John A. Boehner called the prospect of a federal default "a financial disaster not only for our country, but for the worldwide economy." Nasty stuff.

But it's worth asking why a default would be such a problem. Can't we just launch a missile at our creditors, or promise to do better next time? Well, no. Our creditors have power over us. If the actors who make up the entity we loosely refer to as "the market" -- that means everyone from banks to hedge funds to China -- don't get paid back, they'll go nuts. They'll realize we're fiscally irresponsible. They'll stop lending us money, or at least start charging us more when they do. Interest rates will skyrocket, and the economy will grind to a halt.

So America's various governmental entities are looking for ways to avoid defaulting on their debt -- or at least defaulting on their debt to the powerful.<u> That addendum is important, because one of the strategies that's emerging is to default on debt to the less powerful, the people who don't have the power to wreck our economy.</u>

This is a crucial fact about the economy, and one often underplayed by economists: power matters. It's worth more, in many cases, than money. And that's what's really at issue in Wisconsin. <span style='font-size: 14pt'>It's why Gov. Scott Walker is uninterested in taking concessions from the unions on wages and benefits if they don't come alongside concessions on collective bargaining. <span style="color: #990000">What he wants isn't a change in the balance of payments. It's a change in the balance of power.</span></span>

<span style='font-size: 17pt'>The deal Wisconsin made with its state employees was simple: Accept lower wages than you could get in the private sector now in return for better pensions and health-care benefits when you retire. Now Walker wants to renege on that deal.</span>

Rather than stiff the banks, in other words, he wants to stiff the teachers -- <span style='font-size: 20pt'><span style="color: #3333FF">but the crucial twist he's added, the one that's sent tens of thousands of workers into the streets, is that <u>he wants to make sure they can't fight back once he does it.</u></span></span> </div></div>

link (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2011/02/column_wisconsin_is_about_powe.html)

Q </div></div>

Why do Republicans hate the Middle Class? Why is it that their standard is always to destroy the tools of free speech, personal privacy, equal rights, and a fair opportunity, for all, to work for a better future, rather than setting most Americans up to be exploited by the wealthy and powerful.

Who the hell do these current Republicans think they are, that they can proclaim they refuse to compromise, IOW, they refuse to take part in the democratic process, but instead, intend to DICTATE!

No wonder, that everytime they were asked how they intended to create Jobs, or handle the deficit, they refused to give any answers.

Every American should read, or watch, The Shock Doctrine for a preview of what Repiglicans are actually up to right now, and the history of the destruction caused by their hero, Milton Freidman, and his VOODOO Economics of mass destruction, which favor the wealthy, on the backs of the rest.

Their economic policies today, in America, are a replay of the philosophy of the previous, Neocon's, and their clandestine contributions to the fall of Chile.

Same exact divisive, crooked, destruction of a once peaceful society, that we are seeing them use right now. AND they have been building this travesty since Reagan began to destroy America, and attack the Unions.

"When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, and carrying a cross"
G.

Qtec
02-23-2011, 07:07 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, and carrying a cross" </div></div>

Whoever said that had vision because its happening right now.

Proof that this is all about union busting is that other GOP controlled states are trying the same thing.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Members of the Democratic state House caucus in Indiana have found an unlikely ally in their quest to stop the GOP majority from pushing through a bill that critics say would destroy union organizing in the state. Gov. Mitch Daniels (R) took to the airwaves today to call on members of his party to drop the controversial "right to work" bill that led to Democrats going AWOL.

Daniels' statement, from WISH-TV:

"I'm not sending the state police after anybody. I'm not gonna divert a single trooper from their job of protection the Indiana public. I trust that people's consciences will bring them back to work. ... For reasons I've explained more than once I thought there was a better time and place to have this very important and legitimate issue raised."

<u>Daniels has said for months that he's in favor of the idea behind the controversial bills, that critics say would make it nearly impossible for unions to organize in Indiana.</u> But he's urged Republicans not to go ahead with their plans because he said their controversial nature would take the legislature off track. </div></div>

At least there is one rational GOP.

Q

Gayle in MD
02-23-2011, 07:19 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, and carrying a cross" </div></div>

Whoever said that had vision because its happening right now.

Proof that this is all about union busting is that other GOP controlled states are trying the same thing.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Members of the Democratic state House caucus in Indiana have found an unlikely ally in their quest to stop the GOP majority from pushing through a bill that critics say would destroy union organizing in the state. Gov. Mitch Daniels (R) took to the airwaves today to call on members of his party to drop the controversial "right to work" bill that led to Democrats going AWOL.

Daniels' statement, from WISH-TV:

"I'm not sending the state police after anybody. I'm not gonna divert a single trooper from their job of protection the Indiana public. I trust that people's consciences will bring them back to work. ... For reasons I've explained more than once I thought there was a better time and place to have this very important and legitimate issue raised."

<u>Daniels has said for months that he's in favor of the idea behind the controversial bills, that critics say would make it nearly impossible for unions to organize in Indiana.</u> But he's urged Republicans not to go ahead with their plans because he said their controversial nature would take the legislature off track. </div></div>

At least there is one rational GOP.

Q </div></div>

There is more than one, now. There are several.

Check out my last thread,....
("Republican Icons AGainst Walker's Position)several more have now spoken out against Walker's fascist move.

Apparently, SOME of them have noticed the National Polls, which show that over 60% of Americans, are completely against this last organized Republican attack on Democracy, and the Middle Class.


This is going to blow up in their faces.

G.

Stretch
02-23-2011, 07:29 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, and carrying a cross" </div></div>

Whoever said that had vision because its happening right now.

Proof that this is all about union busting is that other GOP controlled states are trying the same thing.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Members of the Democratic state House caucus in Indiana have found an unlikely ally in their quest to stop the GOP majority from pushing through a bill that critics say would destroy union organizing in the state. Gov. Mitch Daniels (R) took to the airwaves today to call on members of his party to drop the controversial "right to work" bill that led to Democrats going AWOL.

Daniels' statement, from WISH-TV:

"I'm not sending the state police after anybody. I'm not gonna divert a single trooper from their job of protection the Indiana public. I trust that people's consciences will bring them back to work. ... For reasons I've explained more than once I thought there was a better time and place to have this very important and legitimate issue raised."

<u>Daniels has said for months that he's in favor of the idea behind the controversial bills, that critics say would make it nearly impossible for unions to organize in Indiana.</u> But he's urged Republicans not to go ahead with their plans because he said their controversial nature would take the legislature off track. </div></div>

At least there is one rational GOP.

Q </div></div>

It must be a very lonely place. St.

Stretch
02-23-2011, 07:45 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=Qtec] <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, and carrying a cross" </div></div>

Whoever said that had vision because its happening right now.

Proof that this is all about union busting is that other GOP controlled states are trying the same thing.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Members of the Democratic state House caucus in Indiana have found an unlikely ally in their quest to stop the GOP majority from pushing through a bill that critics say would destroy union organizing in the state. Gov. Mitch Daniels (R) took to the airwaves today to call on members of his party to drop the controversial "right to work" bill that led to Democrats going AWOL.

Daniels' statement, from WISH-TV:

"I'm not sending the state police after anybody. I'm not gonna divert a single trooper from their job of protection the Indiana public. I trust that people's consciences will bring them back to work. ... For reasons I've explained more than once I thought there was a better time and place to have this very important and legitimate issue raised."

<u>Daniels has said for months that he's in favor of the idea behind the controversial bills, that critics say would make it nearly impossible for unions to organize in Indiana.</u> But he's urged Republicans not to go ahead with their plans because he said their controversial nature would take the legislature off track. </div></div>

At least there is one rational GOP.

Q </div></div>

There is more than one, now. There are several.

Check out my last thread,....
("Republican Icons AGainst Walker's Position)several more have now spoken out against Walker's fascist move.

Apparently, SOME of them have noticed the National Polls, which show that over 60% of Americans, are completely against this last organized Republican attack on Democracy, and the Middle Class.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div>This is going to blow up in their faces.

G. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div>


I totaly agree Gayle. This is ground zero for the Labour Movement. If the Reps think that all the Union brothers and sisters are just going to lay down and die they have another thing comeing. This issue is going to mobalize a backlash like they've never seen before. IT'S ON!!!

http://www.workdayminnesota.org/index.php?news_6_4779

Sev
02-23-2011, 07:55 AM
Unions have no place in the public sector. They were illegal in the federal government until recent history.

The reason the unions fear this is because there is an opt out option for employees and that the union will need to be recertified every year.

This in not about the workers. The union bosses could care less.
Its about the power the money brings and its possible loss.

It will be another nail in the coffin for the democrat party.

Gayle in MD
02-23-2011, 08:19 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stretch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=Qtec] <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, and carrying a cross" </div></div>

Whoever said that had vision because its happening right now.

Proof that this is all about union busting is that other GOP controlled states are trying the same thing.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Members of the Democratic state House caucus in Indiana have found an unlikely ally in their quest to stop the GOP majority from pushing through a bill that critics say would destroy union organizing in the state. Gov. Mitch Daniels (R) took to the airwaves today to call on members of his party to drop the controversial "right to work" bill that led to Democrats going AWOL.

Daniels' statement, from WISH-TV:

"I'm not sending the state police after anybody. I'm not gonna divert a single trooper from their job of protection the Indiana public. I trust that people's consciences will bring them back to work. ... For reasons I've explained more than once I thought there was a better time and place to have this very important and legitimate issue raised."

<u>Daniels has said for months that he's in favor of the idea behind the controversial bills, that critics say would make it nearly impossible for unions to organize in Indiana.</u> But he's urged Republicans not to go ahead with their plans because he said their controversial nature would take the legislature off track. </div></div>

At least there is one rational GOP.

Q </div></div>

There is more than one, now. There are several.

Check out my last thread,....
("Republican Icons AGainst Walker's Position)several more have now spoken out against Walker's fascist move.

Apparently, SOME of them have noticed the National Polls, which show that over 60% of Americans, are completely against this last organized Republican attack on Democracy, and the Middle Class.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div>This is going to blow up in their faces.

G. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div>


I totaly agree Gayle. This is ground zero for the Labour Movement. If the Reps think that all the Union brothers and sisters are just going to lay down and die they have another thing comeing. This issue is going to mobalize a backlash like they've never seen before. IT'S ON!!!

http://www.workdayminnesota.org/index.php?news_6_4779 </div></div>

Yes, the Repiglicans latest effort at another fixed election, like the last mid term election, compliments of the Fascists RW Supreme Court, is not going to be as easy to cover up as some economic move.

Koch Brothers are far too visibly noticable, for that.

We are going to finally see the Middle Class rise up over this, just as we are now watching, as polls are showing over 60% of Americans are against this Repiglican sham.

G.

Sev
02-23-2011, 08:21 AM
Jesus.

Stretch
02-23-2011, 08:55 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unions have no place in the public sector. They were illegal in the federal government until recent history.

The reason the unions fear this is because there is an opt out option for employees and that the union will need to be recertified every year.

This in not about the workers. The union bosses could care less.
Its about the power the money brings and its possible loss.

It will be another nail in the coffin for the democrat party.

</div></div>

You couldn't be any more wrong.

"The 19th-century rober barron Jay Gould once said 'i can hire half the working class to shoot the other half' Goulds vision of class warefare is being played out today in the shameful attacks on public emplyees.

These attacks are being secretly financed and planned by modern day Gay Gould's who aim to keep their own taxes low. Vastly powerfull Corporations and billionairs want to cripple all unions and turn the USA into a low wage bannana republic....They're succeeding. Their demands are nothing more than payback for the billions of dollars they have poured into political campaigns."

This is not about unions anymore. This is a struggle for the dignity of ALL woking class America. It's funny how the rest of the world can see exactly whats happening but the ones inside the fishbowl are oblivious to the problem.

Nail in the coffin? Hardly. all the Reps have done is wake the giant. This will turn out to be the biggest tactical disaster the GOP has ever made. St.

Sev
02-23-2011, 09:01 AM
Doubt it.

At it height unions only comprised 35% or the working force in America. Its in the 20% and still falling.

Gayle in MD
02-23-2011, 09:26 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stretch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unions have no place in the public sector. They were illegal in the federal government until recent history.

The reason the unions fear this is because there is an opt out option for employees and that the union will need to be recertified every year.

This in not about the workers. The union bosses could care less.
Its about the power the money brings and its possible loss.

It will be another nail in the coffin for the democrat party.

</div></div>

You couldn't be any more wrong.

"The 19th-century rober barron Jay Gould once said 'i can hire half the working class to shoot the other half' Goulds vision of class warefare is being played out today in the shameful attacks on public emplyees.

These attacks are being secretly financed and planned by modern day Gay Gould's who aim to keep their own taxes low. Vastly powerfull Corporations and billionairs want to cripple all unions and turn the USA into a low wage bannana republic....They're succeeding. Their demands are nothing more than payback for the billions of dollars they have poured into political campaigns."

This is not about unions anymore. This is a struggle for the dignity of ALL woking class America. It's funny how the rest of the world can see exactly whats happening but the ones inside the fishbowl are oblivious to the problem.

Nail in the coffin? Hardly. all the Reps have done is wake the giant. This will turn out to be the biggest tactical disaster the GOP has ever made. St.

</div></div>

This is exactly what Freidman, and the chicago School, did in Chile. Rumsfeld hooked up with the Freidman while Nixon was in office.

Along came REagan...



Everywhere that Freidman show up in history, there is redistribution of wealth to the top, and complete economic destruction for the rest.

Crises economics, always promoted by either war, or a crash, accompanied by poverty.

Always resulting in poverty, for all but the wealthy top.

Thatcher did the same thing, when she hooked up with Freidman. First move, WAR, then she used the victory to bring the Chicago School of Freidman Economics, to britian, followed by destroying the Unions. Followed by a massive program of privatizations, selling off the steel industry, water, electricity, gas, telephones, airlines, oil, public housing sold off. In 1987, financial services would be regulated, then, the Big Bang.

Accompanied by the same glossy style propaganda.

Then, came the Big Bang.... In Britain, before Thatcher, a CEO earned ten times as much as the average worker.

By two thousand and seven, CEO's in Britian earned more than a hundred times as much, as the average worker.

In the US before Reagan, CEO's earned 43 times as much as the average worker. By two thousand and five, they owned more than four hundred times as much.

Freidman, Reagan, Thatcher....and what have we seen since?

Every American MUST watch, or read, The Shock Doctrine

Freidman has openly acknowledged the importance of Reagan and Thatcher in spreading his economoic policies around the world. He has called the coincidence of REagan and Thatchers being in office at the same time, asenormously important for the public acceptance of the worldwide, of a different approach to economic monetary policy.

We all know the fairy tale about REagan and Thatcher, that the economic prosperity under REagan and Thatcher looked so prosperous, to the people of the former communist block, that they themselves, demanded radical free market policies. this really is a fairy tale.

It is true that people who had been living under authoritarian communism, genuinely wanted democracy, and also true that people wanted to be able to go out and buy blue jeens, and big macs, also true, but that does not mean that they wanted the kind of Wild West capitalism, of Oligarchs gone mad, and no social protections that so many Eastern block countries, actually ended up with, and suffer under to this day.

Number one, break the Unions.

Qtec
02-23-2011, 09:29 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Vastly powerfull Corporations and billionairs want to cripple all unions and turn the USA into a low wage bannana republic....They're succeeding. Their demands are nothing more than payback for the billions of dollars they have poured into political campaigns."

This is not about unions anymore. This is a struggle for the dignity of ALL woking class America. </div></div>

Tap Tap Tap.

Even a blind man can see it.

Q

Qtec
02-23-2011, 09:47 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> In Wisconsin, the self-described “Tea Party Gov.” Scott Walker, his election bankrolled by big-time donations from the billionaire Koch brothers and other influential conservative contributors, unleashed a frontal attack on public worker unions. After signing into law millions in tax cuts for businesses, he invoked the state’s projected budget crisis to demand harsh cuts in benefits and bargaining rights from public employee workers and their unions.

Even after the unions accepted his cuts in pension and health care, Walker pressed forward with his effort to cripple their right to negotiate. As if to flaunt his power grab, Walker exempted the unions – police and fire fighters – that had largely supported him in the election.

Walker’s assault may be the most offensive — but it is not alone.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0211/50022.html#ixzz1EnVCtsYy
</div></div>

Q

LWW
02-23-2011, 03:55 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stretch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These attacks are being secretly financed and planned [Reguritate party line]blah blah blah blah[/Reguritate party line]</div></div>

Then how do you know about it?

LWW

Sev
02-23-2011, 04:18 PM
The public unions are nothing more than a money laundering scheme for the democrat party.

What is fair about the tax payers being put on the hook for their expense and then having a portion of that money automatically send to the democrat party?

What should an individual be forced to join a union then have his dues sent to a party he does not support???

And where did all that stimulus money go??

We should have a comparative study done to see the proportion of public union members that have been laid off and have seen their houses go into foreclosure VS those in the private sector.

I would bet the results would be eye opening.

LWW
02-24-2011, 05:19 AM
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/today.parcoltop33.96002.ImageFile.jpg

LWW