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stickman
09-09-2002, 09:05 AM
APA nine ball rules don't allow for a push out after the break. Does anyone have any idea why they choose to go this route? It just seems odd.

WaltVA
09-09-2002, 09:28 AM
My impression is that APA rules are simplified/modified to eliminate as many potential arguments as possible.

Walt in VA

Ross
09-09-2002, 12:40 PM
Speed up the game?

ChrisW
09-09-2002, 12:41 PM
I have to agree!
Most APA 9-ball players wouldn't know what a push out is.

Chris

Fred Agnir
09-09-2002, 02:24 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: stickman:</font><hr> APA nine ball rules don't allow for a push out after the break. Does anyone have any idea why they choose to go this route? It just seems odd. <hr></blockquote>
Well... I'm not sure how odd it seems. There was a good stretch in the 80's where there was no pushout at all. It wasn't until I believe 1989 that the pros started to pushout after the break.

So, with that in mind, I guess it is possible that the APA 9-ball rules were conceived by people who remember those days. Similarly, I've always thought that's why the APA 8-ball rules are what they are: because when the APA 8-ball started, that's how the professionals were playing 8-ball at the time (no call).

Fred &lt;~~~ just guessing

09-09-2002, 02:30 PM
A push-out is a professional element of the game. It will always favor the more experienced player. Removing that option gives the less experienced players a better chance to win since the stronger players can not only exercise that option more often but also be more effective on it's execution. You'll find that a lot of APA rules do favor the less experienced players and this is just one of them. Although some of the better players may get frustrated with some of rules that favor their lower ranked opponents, they should keep in mind that those are the same rules that will favor their own lower ranked team-mates. Just my opinion anyway.

Scott Lee
09-10-2002, 07:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Fred Agnir:</font><hr> Well... I'm not sure how odd it seems. There was a good stretch in the 80's where there was no pushout at all. It wasn't until I believe 1989 that the pros started to pushout after the break.

Fred &lt;~~~ just guessing <hr></blockquote>

Fred...Years ago (25-30) nineball was played (and gambled on) using a "pushout" or rollout rule on EVERY shot. That was the normal, accepted way to play. We called it two-shot ball in hand, because you had the option to roll out on each shot, but could be made to shoot again, where you had to get a legal hit, or it was ball in hand.

Scott Lee

stickman
09-10-2002, 08:04 AM
Thanks for the interesting theories and history. I truely enjoy my APA league play, I was just curious about the origin of the "no push out rule".

Scott: Push out on every shot? Now that would be different. LOL!

Fred Agnir
09-10-2002, 10:14 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Scott Lee:</font><hr> Fred...Years ago (25-30) nineball was played (and gambled on) using a "pushout" or rollout rule on EVERY shot. That was the normal, accepted way to play. We called it two-shot ball in hand, because you had the option to roll out on each shot, but could be made to shoot again, where you had to get a legal hit, or it was ball in hand.<hr></blockquote>
You misunderstood my post, Scott. Of course I know about the two-shot ball-in-hand. I was addressing the question of "oddity" of the APA not using the "pushout after the break."

Again, in much of the 80's, the professional tournaments that I watched did not use a pushout after the break, and no push outs at all. They were still spotting every ball, and they were still shooting from behind the line after scratches on the break. Rules change a lot, but newer players (to that particular game) may not realize this.

Fred