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LWW
03-06-2011, 03:14 AM
The myth of Lincoln takes another hit. This from the reich wing AP:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">McLEAN, Va. Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address has inspired Americans for generations, but consider his jarring remarks in 1862 to a White House audience of free blacks, urging them to leave the U.S. and settle in Central America.

"For the sake of your race, you should sacrifice something of your present comfort for the purpose of being as grand in that respect as the white people," Lincoln said, promoting his idea of colonization: <span style='font-size: 11pt'>resettling blacks in foreign countries on the belief that whites and blacks could not coexist in the same nation.</span>

Lincoln went on to say that free blacks who envisioned a permanent life in the United States were being "selfish" and he promoted Central America as an ideal location "especially because of the similarity of climate with your native land thus being suited to your physical condition."

As the nation celebrates the 150th anniversary of Lincoln's first inauguration Friday, a new book by a researcher at George Mason University in Fairfax makes the case that Lincoln was even more committed to colonizing blacks than previously known. The book, "Colonization After Emancipation," is based in part on newly uncovered documents that authors Philip Magness and Sebastian Page found at the British National Archives outside London and in the U.S. National Archives.
In an interview, Magness said he thinks the documents he uncovered reveal Lincoln's complexity.

"It makes his life more interesting, his racial legacy more controversial," said Magness, who is also an adjuct professor at American University.

<span style='font-size: 11pt'>Lincoln's views about colonization are well known among historians, even if they don't make it into most schoolbooks. Lincoln even referred to colonization in the preliminary Emancipation Proclamation</span>, his September 1862 warning to the South that he would free all slaves in Southern territory if the rebellion continued. Unlike some others, Lincoln always promoted a voluntary colonization, rather than forcing blacks to leave.

But historians differ on whether Lincoln moved away from colonization after he issued the official Emancipation Proclamation on Jan. 1, 1863, or whether he continued to support it.

Magness and Page's book offers evidence that Lincoln continued to support colonization, engaging in secret diplomacy with the British to establish a colony in British Honduras, now Belize.

Among the records found at the British archives is an 1863 order from Lincoln granting a British agent permission to recruit volunteers for a Belize colony.

"He didn't let colonization die off. He became very active in promoting it in the private sphere, through diplomatic channels," Magness said. He surmises that Lincoln grew weary of the controversy that surrounded colonization efforts, which had become enmeshed in scandal and were criticized by many abolitionists.

As late as 1864, Magness found a notation that Lincoln asked the attorney general whether he could continue to receive counsel from James Mitchell, his colonization commissioner, even after Congress had eliminated funding for Mitchell's office.

Illinois' state historian, Tom Schwartz, who is also a research director at the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library in Springfield, Ill., said that while historians differ, there is ample evidence that Lincoln's views evolved away from colonization in the final two years of the Civil War.

Lincoln gave several speeches referring to the rights blacks had earned as they enlisted in the Union Army, for instance. And presidential secretary John Hay wrote in July 1864 that Lincoln had "sloughed off" colonization.

"Most of the evidence points to the idea that Lincoln is looking at other ways" to resolve the transition from slavery besides colonization at the end of his presidency, Schwartz said.

Lincoln is the not the only president whose views on race relations and slavery were more complex and less idealistic than children's storybook histories suggest. George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were both slaveholders despite misgivings. Washington freed his slaves when he died.

"Washington, because he wanted to keep the union, knew he had to ignore the slavery problem because it would have torn the country apart, said James Rees, director of Washington's Mount Vernon estate.

"It's tempting to wish he had tried. The nation had more chance of dealing with slavery with Washington than with anyone else," Rees said, noting the esteem in which Washington was held in both the North and the South.

Magness said views on Lincoln can be strongly held and often divergent. He noted that people have sought to use Lincoln's legacy to support all manner of political policy agendas since the day he was assassinated. And nobody can claim definitive knowledge of Lincoln's own views, especially on a topic as complex as race relations.

"He never had a chance to complete his vision. Lincoln's racial views were evolving at the time of his death," Magness said. </div></div>

The myths of this tyrant are sadly widespread. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_lincoln_colonization)

LWW

Soflasnapper
03-06-2011, 06:15 AM
You have taken an AMERICAN icon, and actually, a REPUBLICAN icon, and without any evidence, called him a <u>leftist</u> icon.

How's this one-man band rebranding effort working for ya? Can you find ONE LEFTIST GROUP using Lincoln as their icon?

SDS? Weather Underground? PETA? Code Pink? CPUSA? SNCC? The Rainbow Coalition?

You are confused and disturbed.

In fact, ALL American icons have been given their demythologizing treatment FROM THE LEFT (the historian Beard on the Founding Fathers, for example).

LWW
03-06-2011, 06:26 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have taken an AMERICAN icon, and actually, a REPUBLICAN icon, and without any evidence, called him a <u>leftist</u> icon.</div></div>

The mythical Lincoln is an American icon. Sadly, the man portrayed in the myth of Lincoln never actually existed.

Second, the republican party as it exists today ... although it is slowly diverging from it ... is a leftist party. They are commonly thought of as a rightist party only because the only other major US party is a moonbat crazy leftist party that is farther to the left than Karl Marx.

LWW

LWW
03-06-2011, 06:29 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How's this one-man band rebranding effort working for ya? </div></div>

Prima facie evidence that you never even read the link.

As a student of the true Lincoln, I was well aware of Lincoln's desire for blacks to leave America. The evidence presented in the article wasn't opinion ... it was Lincoln's words and actions.

If you actually studied the true Lincoln you would probably love him even more being the statist tyrant that he was.

LWW

LWW
03-06-2011, 06:33 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can you find ONE LEFTIST GROUP using Lincoln as their icon?

SDS? Weather Underground? PETA? Code Pink? CPUSA? SNCC? The Rainbow Coalition?</div></div>

WOW! Just WOW!

More prima facie evidence of zero knowledge of the true Lincoln or of US history beyond what the public schools spoon feed you.

The CPUSA actually sponsored the "ABRAHAM LINCOLN BRIGADE" which they sent to fight in the Spanish Civil War.

Might I suggest that you read a book before posting on the topic again?

LWW

LWW
03-06-2011, 06:34 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are confused and disturbed.</div></div>

You left out educated.

LWW

LWW
03-06-2011, 06:39 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In fact, ALL American icons have been given their demythologizing treatment FROM THE LEFT (the historian Beard on the Founding Fathers, for example). </div></div>

All American icons were human.

Lincoln was a tyrant, and his actions led to the majority of US war casualties.

He authorized the most massive war crime in US history.

He authorized the mistreatment and actual torture of POW's.

He shuttered the free press.

He planned to have the CJ of the SCOTUS arrested.

He violated an agreement with the CSA which led to the start of the US Civil War.

He ordered legislators arrested for dissent to the tyrant.

He earned the nickname "HONEST ABE" for being a politician who would lie even when the truth served him better.

I could go on, but you are probably gouging out your own eyes already.

LWW

Soflasnapper
03-06-2011, 07:08 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are confused and disturbed.</div></div>

You left out educated.

LWW </div></div>

And overly defensive, I may add.

Look, it is no secret that Lincoln was not even the Great Emancipator of historical legend, either by his actions or his sentiments. Are you just finding this out, to share with us?

It is clear to any who've looked into the matter that when John Wilkes Booth shouted out 'sic semper tyrannis' he had a point, because in many respects, Lincoln was indeed a tyrant, nearly as bad as we've ever had in the WH.

I disagree that the 'Lincoln Brigade' showed some major leftist iconization of Lincoln.

First, the numbers were pitifully small. 450, out of membership in the tens of thousands, and not all of the 450 were CPUSA members. The Abraham Lincoln Brigade was made up of volunteers from all walks of American life, and from all classes. [Wiki].

The ACTUAL leftist icon, FDR, prosecuted them.

In 1939, The Roosevelt Administration's Attorney-General, Frank Murphy indicted 16 alleged Communists and fellow travelers for having recruited volunteers for the Abraham Lincoln Brigade supporting Spanish Republican forces against Franco and the Nationalists. [Wiki]

What OTHER LEFTIST ICON was honored by the Lincoln Brigades?

The name Brigade is a misnomer. In the Spanish Civil War, a brigade consisted of four to six battalions.[6] American volunteers mostly joined the two battalions (the Lincoln Battalion and the <u>Washington</u> Battalion) within XV International Brigade [Wiki].

Since Washington is in no way any kind of leftist icon that I've ever heard before, it appears these guys took the names of rock-ribbed AMERICAN ICONS to make their efforts look more American.

Soflasnapper
03-06-2011, 07:26 AM
Now I wait to hear how the leftist icon Washington really, you know, owned slaves!

LWW
03-06-2011, 08:19 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I disagree that the 'Lincoln Brigade' showed some major leftist iconization of Lincoln.</div></div>
<span style='font-size: 26pt'><span style='font-family: Comic Sans MS'>DOUBLETHINK GONE WILD</span></span>
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/79/Abraham_Lincoln_Battalion_button.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/79/Abraham_Lincoln_Battalion_button.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/79/Abraham_Lincoln_Battalion_button.jpg

Just because it's an historical fact that the CPUSA funded the ALB, recruited for the ALB, defended the ALB, and used the icon of Lincoln on their ALB propaganda doesn't prove that the CPUSA funded the ALB, recruited for the ALB, defended the ALB, and used the icon of Lincoln on their ALB propaganda.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/79/Abraham_Lincoln_Battalion_button.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/79/Abraham_Lincoln_Battalion_button.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/79/Abraham_Lincoln_Battalion_button.jpg

LWW

LWW
03-06-2011, 08:21 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now I wait to hear how the leftist icon Washington really, you know, owned slaves! </div></div>

If you wish to start a thread on George Washington, then do so and it can be discussed.

This thread, despite your heartfelt desire to deflect the conversation away from the reality of Lincoln, is about Lincoln and his hope to rid America of blacks after emancipation.

Next smokescreen?

LWW

LWW
03-06-2011, 08:21 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are confused and disturbed.</div></div>

You left out educated.

LWW </div></div>

And overly defensive, I may add.</div></div>

I am sorry, but not surprised, that you find simple truth offensive.

LWW

Soflasnapper
03-06-2011, 08:32 AM
Oh my God!

I just realized...

Lincoln wanted to keep... The Union(s?)! Obvious leftist!

Or just MAYBE, this was the reason?

It is sometimes thought to be the first American military unit to be commanded by a black officer, Oliver Law.[1] [Wiki]

LWW
03-06-2011, 08:53 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SoflasnapperIt is sometimes thought to be the first American military unit to be commanded by a black officer, Oliver Law.[1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> [Wiki]

</div></div>

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Henry_O._Flipper.jpg

Only by history revisionists.

Henry Ossian Flipper graduated from West Point in 1877 and was later the first black to command a military unit when he was placed in command of A troop, 10th US Cavalry Division, Fort Sill.

LWW

Soflasnapper
03-06-2011, 11:56 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I disagree that the 'Lincoln Brigade' showed some major leftist iconization of Lincoln.</div></div>
<span style='font-size: 26pt'><span style='font-family: Comic Sans MS'>DOUBLETHINK GONE WILD</span></span>
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/79/Abraham_Lincoln_Battalion_button.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/79/Abraham_Lincoln_Battalion_button.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/79/Abraham_Lincoln_Battalion_button.jpg

Just because it's an historical fact that the CPUSA funded the ALB, recruited for the ALB, defended the ALB, and used the icon of Lincoln on their ALB propaganda doesn't prove that the CPUSA funded the ALB, recruited for the ALB, defended the ALB, and used the icon of Lincoln on their ALB propaganda.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/79/Abraham_Lincoln_Battalion_button.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/79/Abraham_Lincoln_Battalion_button.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/79/Abraham_Lincoln_Battalion_button.jpg

LWW
</div></div>

So do you have anything showing 'the left' iconizes Lincoln that isn't over 80 years old? As in, they still do? Or is your claim only that they USED TO, generations ago?

They also USED TO iconize Stalin, but again, that is now the better part of a century ago as well.

Sev
03-06-2011, 12:30 PM
Obama.

LWW
03-06-2011, 04:18 PM
You seem to be defending him pretty vigorously.

LWW

LWW
03-06-2011, 04:24 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Obama. </div></div>

Jimmuh Cahtuh

Billy Jeff Clinton

LWW

LWW
03-06-2011, 04:25 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

They also USED TO iconize Stalin, but again, that is now the better part of a century ago as well. </div></div>

When exactly did they stop?

LWW

Soflasnapper
03-07-2011, 06:28 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You seem to be defending him pretty vigorously.

LWW </div></div>

Stalin? Hardly.

Soflasnapper
03-07-2011, 06:34 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

They also USED TO iconize Stalin, but again, that is now the better part of a century ago as well. </div></div>

When exactly did they stop?

LWW </div></div>

Of course, the Trotskyites and Maoists never iconized him, most likely.

During the 20th Party Congress in February, 1956, Khrushchev launched an attack on the rule of Joseph Stalin. He condemned the Great Purge and accused Stalin of abusing his power. He announced a change in policy and gave orders for the Soviet Union's political prisoners to be released.

This 'de-Stalinization' policy both demythologized Stalin's rule, and saw the left ditch this guy as well.

LWW
03-08-2011, 04:17 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

They also USED TO iconize Stalin, but again, that is now the better part of a century ago as well. </div></div>

When exactly did they stop?

LWW </div></div>

Of course, the Trotskyites and Maoists never iconized him, most likely.

During the 20th Party Congress in February, 1956, Khrushchev launched an attack on the rule of Joseph Stalin. He condemned the Great Purge and accused Stalin of abusing his power. He announced a change in policy and gave orders for the Soviet Union's political prisoners to be released.

This 'de-Stalinization' policy both demythologized Stalin's rule, and saw the left ditch this guy as well. </div></div>

WOW!

So, if Kruschev ordered the US far left to stop idolizing Stalin ... then you are de facto admitting that the USSR ran the US far left.

I was wondering if you would walk into that leftist trap ... and you did.

BTW ... a great American, and victim of the far left hate machine, claimed that the US far left along with the FDR and Truman admins were riddled by Soviet agents.

History has since vindicated him, as have you.

LWW