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09-09-2002, 04:25 PM
Does anyone else feel like the current state of pool is depressing, at best? There really is very little action, and not too many tournaments worth playing either! Sure, there are a few guys in each town that will match up (usually the only ones you can't beat, and who don't want to make any adjustments to make a game happen), but most of the time the pool rooms are just filled with a bunch of "Practicing Toms", who, when asked to match up will say something along the lines of, "No, but so-and-so will play you some", if they even offer that much. Then if you DO happen to get matched up, it's usually for some funzie bet like $20. Local tournaments are worse than ever, with most struggling just to get enough players to have a tournament. I have pretty much quit playing over the past 4 years or so, and every now and then I really get the urge to start playing again. When that happens, I'll usually start going to the pool room and hitting balls, for about a week or so, until the realization hits me that it is just as dead as it was a year ago when I did the same thing. So, the cue goes back in the closet not to be seen for another year. Maybe we could all switch to golf? :-)

Tom_In_Cincy
09-09-2002, 04:32 PM
Sounds to me that you are missing high Action GAMES.. I suggest going to New Orleans.. you can find as much action as you want.

Lots of very good pool players do not need to gamble to have the excitment you seem to need.

Best of luck.. in your efforts.

PQQLK9
09-09-2002, 04:35 PM
I think its guys like you that are really the reason Pool is so depressing...I bet you Smoke up the joint too.I don't gamble but the ones that do are always trying to hit me up for a stake (even steaks)...go play some golf Joe

I'm a practicing Tom /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

09-09-2002, 05:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


I suggest going to New Orleans.. you can find as much action as you want.


<hr></blockquote>

This isn't one of those "No, but so-and-so will play" comments, is it? /webbbs/images/icons/wink.gif Maybe I do need action for pool to be exciting. In fact, in my opinion, action, whether it be gambling or tournaments, IS what makes pool exciting. What fun is ANY game if you're not going to compete? When I was a kid, trying to improve my game, it was the action that fueled me to go practice. So-and-so would beat me, and I would think, "I know I can beat that guy, I just made this mistake, or that mistake", and I'd hit balls for hours and hours, days and days, weeks and weeks (you get the idea), waiting for the opportunity to play so-and-so again and NOT make the mistakes I did last time. Maybe it wasn't a tournament. Maybe I matched up with someone and they beat me, and I didn't think they were supposed to. So, I'd practice, maybe try to pump back up by playing easier games, until I thought I was ready to play the person again. Where is the incentive to get better if you're not going to compete? Can you think of any professional athletes, in any sport, who got to the level they are at by just going at it recreationally? I mean, take MJ, for example. I really doubt that he just sat home and shot free-throws and played horse at his local playground on the weekends. If there were no NBA, or the NBA was in the state that pool currently is, do you think anyone out there would be motivated to go out and play at that level? Not to mention the fact that they COULDN'T play at that level. To play ANY sport at the highest level, it has to be played in competition, and not just for funzies in the back of the room. There has to be something riding on it. There has to be something that puts enough pressure on everyone playing, that they are forced to dig deep and perform. I'm probably rambling on to an audience that, for the most part, doesn't understand, but some here do, and I'm sure some will share my point of view on this. For the rest of you, if you're unsure that top-notch competition, with something riding on it, is the only way to achieve peak performance, let me put it to you another way. If you are say, a programmer, would you be the best programmer you could be if you spent your entire career in acdemia, and not out in the job market "competing" against other programmers for job opportunities? I know that my point of view isn't the most commonly accepted point of view, but that is because it isn't the easiest path, which is what most people are looking for. So, to relate this back to pool, most players don't want to put up any money to play someone that might beat them. Most players don't want to enter a tournament where they're not the favorite to win. They WANT to believe that they can achieve their peak performance by hanging out in the pool room and hitting balls by themselves, or playing funzie sets with their buddies, because it's easier. It doesn't put any pressure on them and make them dig down and perform, hence it's more comfortable. With all that said, I guess it is I who should be wishing you good luck ... you'll probably need it more than I.

P.S. The "Practicing Tom" comment wasn't aimed at you (even though your name is Tom). There was a guy named Tom that used to hang out in Southern Ca. (he's dead now) who earned the nickname for obvious reasons.

09-09-2002, 05:02 PM
Umm, I don't smoke or drink ... but I do gamble, so sue me.

Tom_In_Cincy
09-09-2002, 05:19 PM
Joe,

Motivation to excell at anything starts with "knowing yourself" and what you want and what you want to give up to get your goals.

When you start to compare your accomplishments with others.. you only have two choices for a result.. Either you are better than them.. or they are better than you. I consider this a waste of effort. I let others spend time making comparisons.

As far as pool is concerned, its a game.. not a profession. If you lneed to find excitement by gambling, go fo it. To each his own.

I think some of us (pool players) have some real big EGOs that need feeding.. Competing is one way to make us feel good. We don't all need to gamble to do this. We have local tournaments, leagues and just meeting and matching up.. EGOs can be very motivating.

Tom_In_Cincy
09-09-2002, 05:23 PM
Glad you registered.. Joe..

From Joe Bloe's bio..

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Could probably give PQQLK9 the 6-out, but we'll never know because he's a self-proclaimed "Practicing Tom" :-) <hr></blockquote>

09-09-2002, 05:38 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


As far as pool is concerned, its a game.. not a profession. If you lneed to find excitement by gambling, go fo it. To each his own.


<hr></blockquote>

Ok, I don't mean to pick you apart on every post here, but, try telling Efren, Earl, or Fran, for that matter, that pool isn't a profession. It isn't a profession FOR YOU. However, whether we choose to admit it or not, we would all like to play better than we do. If you're happy with the way you play currently, it is only because you've "settled" for your current level of play. Maybe people settle because they know they'll never do what it takes to get to the next level. I don't know, I'm sure it's an individual thing, and I'm sure there are many reasons. Whatever the case, the "holier than thou" crowd, who are always critisizing those to gamble, need to open their eyes. When you read the sports page, what do you think those little "lines" (point spreads - whatever you choose to call them) on games are there for? Pool, as it is, just isn't exciting. The public WANTS pool to be about gambling and hustling (all those "seedy" things that you people credit for pool being where it is), and you guys completely disinterest them by telling them, "that isn't what pool is about!" I know that what I'm saying is a bit radical for most of you, but it is how I feel. Just about every time I tell a non-player that I play pool, the first thing they do is EAGERLY ask me, "have you ever hustled anyone?", "have you ever played for money?" (of course there is the, "have you ever played Jeanette Lee?" questions /webbbs/images/icons/wink.gif) They ask these questions, and they are interested in the answers! It is exciting for them! If I say, "no no, the pool room is filled with a bunch of goodie-too-shoes who despise gambling", the interest level immediately goes away - in fact, the conversation about pool is usually over (yes, I've tried this experiement just to see what the results would be)! However, if I do start to tell them about games I've played, games I've seen played, etc., they usually have something to say about pool every single time I see them. If you can have fun just practicing, or playing in league, then great. That is all you want out of the sport, so you are satisfied. But there are others (and I can understand if they don't choose to admit to it in this forum) who aren't satisfied with that ... and I'm one of them.

09-09-2002, 05:38 PM
Bah, I thought it was cute /webbbs/images/icons/wink.gif

PQQLK9
09-09-2002, 05:49 PM
Great sence of humor Joe but I would need the breaks AND 5 on the wire in a race to 9. Hey Joe, I ain't no gambler but I ain't no Lawyer either...
Peace Brother /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

socrates
09-09-2002, 06:18 PM
Certainly there are players like yourself who enjoy the "action" often associated with pool. If that action is dried up then golf is a great option. Action operates in win/lose world so the number of participants is limited to those who accept this environment. I hold action as neither good nor bad but it has a limited number of participants.

IMO the majority of the pool playing population does not need the element of action to obtain the enjoyment this game brings. We do not condone the action players nor should we be belittled as a practicing Tom.

You can get everything out of life you want, if you help enough people get what they want. "Zig Ziglar in See you at the Top"

The people who are making a living at this game are those who have realized this and are giving back to the game. People like Phil Capelle, Bert Kinister, George Fels and Robert Byrne with their works - Fran Crimi with her unselfishness with her time and willingness to post to this board and the people who reguarally post to this board are all giving back to the game.

At the amatuer level the state of pool has come a long way and will continue to improve.

This is a great game. I love it.

To everyone who enjoys this game - See You at the Top.

09-09-2002, 06:25 PM
Ditto

09-09-2002, 06:25 PM
Well put, Socrates. I love it, too... I think Jeanette Lee was quoted in an article once that she loves pool because every game is a new work of art. I agree with Jeanette.

By the way, I neglected to post here that I enjoyed meeting you in Moline, and thanks for watching my matches. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Karla

jjinfla
09-09-2002, 06:27 PM
Wadda ya know Joe? You write too well to really be a road player. Or someone who spends all his time in a pool hall. But stranger things than that have happened. An esquire maybe? But you make a lot of good points. But my problem with gambling is that only the players that can beat me want to play for money. That's not much fun. I never could see the point of bragging about how much money I lost gambling like a lot of people I know do. See ya later Joe. Jake

Doomsday Machine
09-09-2002, 06:35 PM
Joe, I can sympathize with your state of mind. I think your mentioning golf is probably an accurate analogy to your problem. Let's just say that you played golf on a regular basis and were a 14 handicap. There was a player at the course that you usually frequented and he was a 4 handicap. He probably wouldn't give you 10 strokes in a serious money match, but he might give you 8. The problem , of course, is that you have to play better than you normally would to win. This problem is similar in pool, if the players are familiar with one another at their "usual" room they have difficulty matching up as everyone wants to have the advantage.

This problem is compounded by the fact that if you go to a "strange" room nobody will play you as they think you might be a "world-beater", ringer, etc. , and they don't want to drop a hundred or two to find out!!! This only really leaves you the possibility to play in regional tournaments if you want that thrill of competition and beating somebody's butt. I had a similar problem a few years back and when I played in tournaments I generally asked my opponent if he wanted to make our match "interesting" by playing for a hundred or so. Most of the time they said no, but strong players will generally give it a go if their financial situation warrants such a bet. This certainly spices up the tournament matches !!

I think the days of finding high stakes games are unfortunately over as people have circulated too many horror stories of road players coming thru and cleaning the local yokels out of their cash !!!

Tom_In_Cincy
09-09-2002, 06:40 PM
Joe,
Why do you feel that you need to demean those pool players that have a 'holier than thou' and 'goodie two shoes' attitudes? Its comments like this that give gamblers a bad reputation. Instigating comments "woofing" to get players riled up.. is a common tactic by gamblers. A lot of players don't like this and it leads to bad feelings about gamblers.

You have to admit there are a lot more of them than there are gamblers (hence your post about the state of pool)

If you want more players to gamble, is there anything that you could do to that will start this to happen?

cheesemouse
09-09-2002, 06:45 PM
Joe Bloe,
I'm with you Joe and I ain't afraid to admit it. I have to stick my neck out there to bring out my best game, nothing else works. I enjoy rec/pool but it doesn't give me the juice I need to play my best. I had two friends over this afternoon for three hours playing king of the hill 9-ball. I can give either of these guys the rainbow but I could hardly win two games in a row. I just can't get there for fun. I respect those that can but I will never be a good fun player. Your right about what the general public thinks is exciting about pool. All the non-players I know only want to know things like; who's the best player you ever played, what's the most you ever bet on a game/match, what's the most you ever won, what's the scariest situation you ever found yourself in and in general anything they think is the romantic side of the game. If the pool industry ever wants to tap into this non-pool playing demographic this interest that the non-players have in the gambling aspect of the game is the only opening they have, every other goodie two shoes angle they have tried has failed. What are the two best things that have happen to pool in our life times? I think it is obvious. The Hustler and the Color of Money. What are they about? You tell me...

Tom_In_Cincy
09-09-2002, 06:55 PM
Cheesy.. and JOE..

You have to admit.. that there are more recreational players now than there was 15 years ago. The Pool Industry is making money.. and its from the recreational player.

Maybe a POOL hall for gamblers only.. would be a good hook into the industry. Charge for railbirds and horses.. Room takes a % of all action.. Wait.. that's been done.. and those rooms are now closed.. guess things have changed.. ya think?

09-09-2002, 07:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


guess things have changed.. ya think?


<hr></blockquote>

My point exactly! Those of us who started hanging out in the pool room BEFORE the change hung out there because we liked it the way it was. That was my whole point with my original post. It isn't that way anymore. It's all about "fun pool", which in my opinion (along with others'), just isn't too fun.

09-09-2002, 07:11 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


Wadda ya know Joe? You write too well to really be a road player. Or someone who spends all his time in a pool hall.


<hr></blockquote>

It's amazing what a few years away will do for your spelling and grammar /webbbs/images/icons/wink.gif No, really, I really was a pool hall bum! I don't think I missed a day from about 12 to 25! /webbbs/images/icons/laugh.gif

Tom_In_Cincy
09-09-2002, 07:11 PM
It is still exciting for a lot of us. (Gamblers and non-gamblers) But, I have to admit.. I still love the gambling part.. like you .. I make the trips to watch the matchups. I just don't match up like I use to.. mostly because I am broke all the time.. Wife, outrages mortgage, a daughter in college.. and two sons still living at home.. I'm lucky to afford table time...

PQQLK9
09-09-2002, 07:37 PM
Wait untill you pay for your daughters wedding...i've paid for two and have one to go...OUCH!

Tom_In_Cincy
09-09-2002, 07:49 PM
spending the wedding money to get her thru college so she doesn't have to depend on a man to live.. It would be cheaper to get her married.. but its worth it... to get her educated

bluewolf
09-10-2002, 07:13 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Karla_in_IA:</font><hr> Well put, Socrates. I love it, too... I think Jeanette Lee was quoted in an article once that she loves pool because every game is a new work of art. I agree with Jeanette.

By the way, I neglected to post here that I enjoyed meeting you in Moline, and thanks for watching my matches. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Karla <hr></blockquote>

i guess i am on another planet.i dont care how many teams are in my league or about the tournaments available.all i really care is that i get to play pool, that i am improving (not hard to do,only way is up lol)and that i am having fun

bw

bluewolf
09-10-2002, 07:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Joe Bloe:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;In reply to:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt;&lt;p&gt;
guess things have changed.. ya think?
<hr></blockquote>

My point exactly! Those of us who started hanging out in the pool room BEFORE the change hung out there because we liked it the way it was. That was my whole point with my original post. It isn't that way anymore. It's all about "fun pool", which in my opinion (along with others'), just isn't too fun. <hr></blockquote>

well,joe, you do have a point.if you got into pool when it was hustling and gambling and you got an adrenalin rush on those things,it is almost like searching for the ultimate 'high'.

for those like me who play for fun and self improvement and have never gambled, i guess we are just a different bunch of folks.

bw

bluewolf
09-10-2002, 07:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> It is still exciting for a lot of us. (Gamblers and non-gamblers) But, I have to admit.. I still love the gambling part.. like you .. I make the trips to watch the matchups. I just don't match up like I use to.. mostly because I am broke all the time.. Wife, outrages mortgage, a daughter in college.. and two sons still living at home.. I'm lucky to afford table time... <hr></blockquote>

i think it is exciting to watch people gamble for money too but i think (if i was good) i would be too afraid of loosing money and developing an addiction.with a few exceptions, seems like people addicted to gambling come out on the short end of the stick.

bw

SPetty
09-10-2002, 07:35 AM
Ok, I don't mean to pick you apart on every point here, but... /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Joe Bloe:</font><hr> Ok, I don't mean to pick you apart on every post here, but, try telling Efren, Earl, or Fran, for that matter, that pool isn't a profession. It isn't a profession FOR YOU. <hr></blockquote>Yes, that's right, and it isn't a profession for most of the people you will find playing pool. It is a very small percentage, indeed, of pool players who are making a living playing pool.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Joe Bloe:</font><hr>However, whether we choose to admit it or not, we would all like to play better than we do.<hr></blockquote>Okay, I admit it! I don't think you'll find a pool player that won't admit that!<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: JoeBloe:</font><hr>If you're happy with the way you play currently, it is only because you've "settled" for your current level of play. Maybe people settle because they know they'll never do what it takes to get to the next level. I don't know, I'm sure it's an individual thing, and I'm sure there are many reasons.<hr></blockquote>Um, you're using the word "settle" here as though it's a legitimate choice. Of course I'll never "do what it takes" - I'll not give up my family, my home, my friends, commitments and good paying job... I'll not give up on real life to be a better pool player... <blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Joe Bloe:</font><hr>Pool, as it is, just isn't exciting. The public WANTS pool to be about gambling and hustling (all those "seedy" things that you people credit for pool being where it is), and you guys completely disinterest them by telling them, "that isn't what pool is about!" <hr></blockquote>Who says the public WANTS that? I've never heard the public rallying around for seedy gambling and hustling! I don't think when people first play pool, they're thinking about seedy gambling and hustling. Most of the kiddoes I see that have taken up the game are playing it for the fun challenges it provides. And if that weird public in your head is disinterested in pool because someone suggests that it's more than just seedy gambling and husting, so what?<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Joe Bloe:</font><hr>I know that what I'm saying is a bit radical for most of you, but it is how I feel. Just about every time I tell a non-player that I play pool, the first thing they do is EAGERLY ask me, "have you ever hustled anyone?", "have you ever played for money?" They ask these questions, and they are interested in the answers! It is exciting for them!<hr></blockquote>Wow, I'd say you've just got weird acquaintances.<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Joe Bloe:</font><hr>If I say, "no no, the pool room is filled with a bunch of goodie-too-shoes who despise gambling", the interest level immediately goes away - in fact, the conversation about pool is usually over (yes, I've tried this experiement just to see what the results would be)!<hr></blockquote>Well, um, duh, if you put it that way! <blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Joe Bloe:</font><hr>However, if I do start to tell them about games I've played, games I've seen played, etc., they usually have something to say about pool every single time I see them. If you can have fun just practicing, or playing in league, then great. That is all you want out of the sport, so you are satisfied. But there are others (and I can understand if they don't choose to admit to it in this forum) who aren't satisfied with that ... and I'm one of them. <hr></blockquote>That's fine for you to try to increase your satisfaction level. Just don't think it should universally apply to everyone.

I know I'm not a world-beater, but I can't imagine the game ever losing its interest to me. Even when I easily make 95% or so of the shots I'm trying for. Then and only then would I possibly need something else to pique my interest and make it more exciting. But at that point, I would think that maybe I would want to move on to something other than pool. Once you've mastered something, if it holds little interest for you, move along to something else to master.

But, until that time, I like the click of the balls hitting - watching the cue ball behave as I've told it to - solving the puzzle of the table every time - the feeling of the cue in my hand - and truth be told, I like watching better opponents show me how it's supposed to be done, knowing that that won't always be the case.

09-10-2002, 07:51 AM

Rich R.
09-10-2002, 08:29 AM
Joe, after reading your posts, I have to suggest that you are not a pool player at all.
It appears that the real joy for you is in the gambling, not the game of pool. If you can no longer find the action you like in a pool room, I suggest you go to the local race track or find a card game with stakes that will interest you.
If you were a real pool player, the game would be enough to hold your interest.
JMHO. Rich R.

09-10-2002, 01:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


with a few exceptions, seems like people addicted to gambling come out on the short end of the stick.


<hr></blockquote>

Match up right and play good enough to win, and you won't come out on the short end of the stick /webbbs/images/icons/wink.gif.

09-10-2002, 02:08 PM
Actually, the "real pool players", as you call them, probably share, at least some, of my views. Unfortunately, you are confused about your "pool player status", so you don't quite understand what I have said in any of my posts. I really don't like to bet on horses, cards, dice, whatever (although, I have, on rare occasion, bet on a basketball game or two). I do like to play pool when there is something riding on it ... whether it be gambling, or playing in a tournament. It sounds like you don't understand this concept. So you're a funzie player ... good for you. Don't be so quick to critisize the people who aren't funzie players.

P.S. As far as me not being a "real" pool player and not playing for the love of the game (or whatever you said), I've probably hit more balls in my life than you will if you live to be 150 years old.

09-10-2002, 02:23 PM
I've been to the DC area to play. I played a couple tournaments and got a little action (actually, I didn't play much in DC, but I played a little at the old Champions in Virginia, and some in Rockville). As far as how I play, I probably play somewhere between you and Efren /webbbs/images/icons/laugh.gif. I don't know why you guys get so hot when someone suggests that there isn't a lot of action (and by action, I don't mean it has to be gambling - I'd be happy with some decent tournaments). All you can say is, "so and so will play you some", or, "come to bla bla bla and you'll get all the action you want!" Of course, as soon as you go to "bla bla bla", someone like you pops up and says, "so and so will play you some." It's the same story wherever you go. As far as me moving, umm, aside from that being an idiotic suggestion, the answer is "no."

09-10-2002, 02:30 PM
*sigh* You take my posts as if I'm some arrogant person who thinks he's the greatest player around, or whatever you think. There are many players who share my opinions. We grew up hanging out in a pool hall that just isn't the same pool hall you guys are now familiar with. If funzie pool is what floats your boat, good for you. I just don't have much fun in any sport unless I'm competing against someone else. Golf, however, is the one game where, although competition makes it more interesting, you're really playing against the course, so, for me at least, I don't really need an opponent for it to be exciting. Call that a character flaw if you want - hell, call it whatever you want.

09-10-2002, 02:32 PM

09-10-2002, 02:50 PM
Alright, you got me. I'm scared. Now go away before others figure me out too.