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View Full Version : Wisconsin Nuclear Option Engaged!!!



Sev
03-09-2011, 06:23 PM
Now we are talking!!!!


http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2011/03/09/breaking-the-wisconsin-has-had-enough/


They will be (at 7 PM Eastern time) voting to strip out the collective bargaining reform part of the state budget bill and passing it separately (which they can do with a quorum of a simple majority). The Left is, of course, now going collectively insane over this.

More as we get it.

[UPDATE 6:48 PM] Tactical surprise over the unions was apparently achieved.

[UPDATE 6:51 PM] Useful links: @kevinbinversie, WisPolitics.

[UPDATE 6:53 PM] Personal note: if you are on the Left and you were surprised by any of this, please remember that this is entirely due to the fact that your regular media sources are pretty much incompetent at telling you the things that you need to know, and almost as bad at telling you the things that they want you to want to hear.

[UPDATE 6:58 PM] Multiple reports of Wisconsin Democrats throwing everybody that they can find at the Capitol building, complete with helpful self-incrimination in the case of mob violence. One hopes that they put crowd-control people there ahead of time.

[UPDATE 7:10 PM] Actual live-blogging - well, live-tweeting via @news3jessica. Matters are proceeding apace.

[UPDATE 7:15 PM] This is a thing that is going to happen, folks. I suggest that the Democrats start talking their more excitable types down NOW.

Sev
03-09-2011, 06:55 PM
The unions lose!!!!

HAHHAHAHA!!!!

LWW
03-10-2011, 04:33 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The unions lose!!!!

HAHHAHAHA!!!! </div></div>

Only because the democrooks they bought and paid for fled the state like scared schoolgirls.

pooltchr
03-10-2011, 07:45 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The unions lose!!!!

HAHHAHAHA!!!! </div></div>

Only because the democrooks they bought and paid for fled the state like scared schoolgirls.

</div></div>

They had no choice. They couldn't defend their position, they couldn't win the debate, so they used the same tactic made popular right here on this forum. They put their jobs on "Total Ignore". They buried their heads in the sand and basically said "If we aren't there, we can't be held accountable".

Steve

Sev
03-10-2011, 07:54 AM
I see Idaho just pass a bill through their legislature.
Michigan is declaring an emergency.

eg8r
03-10-2011, 10:45 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They will be (at 7 PM Eastern time) voting to strip out the collective bargaining reform part of the state budget bill and passing it separately (which they can do with a quorum of a simple majority). The Left is, of course, now going collectively insane over this.

</div></div>I heard this on my local talk radio show this morning. The speaker likened the Dems to a child that murdered his parents and asked the judge for leniency because he was an orphan. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

The idiots run away and refuse to do their job so the Reps separated the bill and voted on what they could. No sense in holding up democracy because a few idiot leftist are obstructionist pigs.

eg8r

Soflasnapper
03-10-2011, 11:52 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The unions lose!!!!

HAHHAHAHA!!!! </div></div>

Like Japan won WW II after their Pearl Harbor attack.

Oh, wait. Japan won that battle, only to later lose the war.

It's going to take a while for the dust to settle (and a year to pass so Walker is eligible for recall) to find out who the eventual victors will be.

Soflasnapper
03-10-2011, 11:55 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The unions lose!!!!

HAHHAHAHA!!!! </div></div>

Only because the democrooks they bought and paid for fled the state like scared schoolgirls.

</div></div>

False, and a fairly nonsensical comment there.

This same result would have happened, only sooner, had they not left. That they left had nothing to do with this outcome, let alone being the 'only' reason it happened. You are dense if you believe that, and I'm not sure how to describe you if you knew that was false and still made that claim.

The difference now is that the governor and state GOP leg have been forced on record now to admit what they denied, which DENIAL caused this delay and the temporary effectiveness of the WI Senate Democrats' tactic.

That this stripping of collective bargaining rights is NOT a fiscal matter, as they claimed, and now admit by their use of this procedural fix is not true.

Soflasnapper
03-10-2011, 11:57 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The unions lose!!!!

HAHHAHAHA!!!! </div></div>

Only because the democrooks they bought and paid for fled the state like scared schoolgirls.

</div></div>

They had no choice. They couldn't defend their position, they couldn't win the debate, so they used the same tactic made popular right here on this forum. They put their jobs on "Total Ignore". They buried their heads in the sand and basically said "If we aren't there, we can't be held accountable".

Steve </div></div>

Steve, they were outnumbered and couldn't win what was a partisan vote. It had nothing to do with inability to defend their position, or winning some debate.

Apparently, they DID win the debate in WI as to public opinion, but still were outvoted by a party that simply didn't care what public opinion was, and was dedicated instead to act against the will of the people for political reasons.

pooltchr
03-10-2011, 12:08 PM
The only public opinion poll that matters, at least according to the 2008 "We won, get over it" Democrats, are the elections. So, I guess last November sent a message to the Dems of Wisconsin.

If you live by the sword, you die by the sword.

Steve

wolfdancer
03-10-2011, 12:25 PM
Wisconsin is a moderate state, friendly folks for the most part. I spent some time in Milwaukee, touring and inspecting the local brewing companies, Pabst, and Schlitz, and sampling,free( One might say I was unpaid quality control) their products at the end of the tour.
I think they should first test out this nuclear option on one of the flyover states, like N.C.

JohnnyD
03-10-2011, 01:14 PM
STOLEN VALOR ACT

Soflasnapper
03-10-2011, 01:20 PM
And that is a convincing argument to Wisconsonites? Evidently not.

Elections only allow one to do things until the next election. Game on.

ugotda7
03-10-2011, 01:36 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The unions lose!!!!

HAHHAHAHA!!!! </div></div>

Only because the democrooks they bought and paid for fled the state like scared schoolgirls.

</div></div>

False, and a fairly nonsensical comment there.

This same result would have happened, only sooner, had they not left. That they left had nothing to do with this outcome, let alone being the 'only' reason it happened. You are dense if you believe that, and I'm not sure how to describe you if you knew that was false and still made that claim.

The difference now is that the governor and state GOP leg have been forced on record now to admit what they denied, which DENIAL caused this delay and the temporary effectiveness of the WI Senate Democrats' tactic.

That this stripping of collective bargaining rights is NOT a fiscal matter, as they claimed, and now admit by their use of this procedural fix is not true. </div></div>

Collective bargaining is not a right....and most certainly a fiscal matter - maybe you should give some of the WI bus drivers making six figures a call to verify?

pooltchr
03-10-2011, 01:40 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I think they should first test out this nuclear option on one of the flyover states, like N.C. </div></div>

No need. NC is a right to work state.

Steve

wolfdancer
03-10-2011, 03:32 PM
what's that you say? somebody done stole yer valor?, fer shame.

LWW
03-10-2011, 07:05 PM
Still regurgitating whatever's on the spoon I see.

Soflasnapper
03-10-2011, 07:26 PM
Collective bargaining is not a right....and most certainly a fiscal matter - maybe you should give some of the WI bus drivers making six figures a call to verify?

Actually, collective bargaining is a basic human right, as Reagan himself agreed, and as the world voted they agreed in a unanimous vote (of all countries who voted, including the US) clarifying the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which is a binding treaty that therefore becomes 'the highest law of the land,' according to our Constitution.

Considering that even the governor (for now) allows those same unions their collective bargaining rights ON SALARIES, what exactly are you talking about?

Soflasnapper
03-10-2011, 07:26 PM
Still regurgitating whatever's on the spoon I see.

Still stuck on stupid with that ridiculous talking point I see.

Snide remarks are not an argument, nor evidence you are correct. But I guess if you have no substantive counter point, that's all you have left?

pooltchr
03-10-2011, 07:58 PM
A "right" is something that everyone has, that does not require depriving someone else of anything in order to obtain it.

You have the "right" to breathe. Your breathing does not take anything away from anyone else.

You have the "right" to work and try to earn a living. You do NOT have the "right" to force your employer to pay you more, or pay for your healthcare, or anything else.

See the difference?

Steve

wolfdancer
03-10-2011, 08:35 PM
it's called negotiations, or collective bargaining, and there isn't any laws against a non violent strike,'cept maybe in your state. As a company's bottom line profits increases, their employees would like to be rewarded for their own efforts.
We could turn back the clock to the old days of butt kissing, and boot licking, in the slim hope of asking for and getting a raise, but .....probably won't. Why should you be concerned, since you are a non union worker and your company will never go union?
OR....who knows?
Brown Bailout' campaign masks FedEx anti-union drive
Wednesday, September 29, 2010
By: Steve Johnson

Media and lobbying war with UPS

When FedEx tussles with UPS and the International Brotherhood of Teamsters through media campaigns and Congressional lobbying, something important must be happening.
FedEx and UPS truck

There is a bill in Congress titled the Express Carrier Employee Fairness Amendment in the Federal Airlines Administration Reauthorization Act (Section 806 of HR 915). Currently, the law allows FedEx to place all of its workers under the Railway Labor Act because FedEx began initially as an airline and employs pilots, mechanics, and others who are directly involved in air transportation.

But FedEx also hires truck drivers. In all other delivery jobs, including the truck driver jobs of UPS, the driver is covered by the National Labor Relations Act. The current reauthorization bill would place FedEx drivers and delivery people in the same category as UPS drivers, and cover their unionizing efforts under the NLRA.

Why does this matter? The NLRA allows local organizing for union contracts, work stoppages and other labor actions, whereas the RLA requires national contract organizing. Obviously, it is easier for workers to organize themselves at the local level than to organize the entire company at once. FedEx likes the RLA status for its workers and considers it ‘competitive.’ UPS and IBT, however, are supporting the FAA Reauthorization Act, which would put FedEx drivers under the jurisdiction of the NLRA. This move would make it easier for 100,000 FedEx workers to organize. To fight this, FedEx has launched an ad campaign calling the effort a “Brown Bailout,” capitalizing on the public’s distaste for corporate bailouts.

pooltchr
03-10-2011, 09:38 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it's called negotiations, or collective bargaining, and there isn't any laws against a non violent strike,

<span style="color: #FF0000">There is no law against employees refusing to go to work. There should be no law preventing employers from firing employees who refuse to go to work. Fair is fair. </span>

As a company's bottom line profits increases, their employees would like to be rewarded for their own efforts.
<span style="color: #FF0000">I'm sure they would, and a smart employer will make sure that happens. The ones who don't, stand to lose their employees to another employer who offers them more for their services. It's called competition. </span>

Brown Bailout' campaign masks FedEx anti-union drive
Wednesday, September 29, 2010
By: Steve Johnson

Media and lobbying war with UPS

When FedEx tussles with UPS and the International Brotherhood of Teamsters through media campaigns and Congressional lobbying, something important must be happening.
FedEx and UPS truck

There is a bill in Congress titled the Express Carrier Employee Fairness Amendment in the Federal Airlines Administration Reauthorization Act (Section 806 of HR 915). Currently, the law allows FedEx to place all of its workers under the Railway Labor Act because FedEx began initially as an airline and employs pilots, mechanics, and others who are directly involved in air transportation.

But FedEx also hires truck drivers. In all other delivery jobs, including the truck driver jobs of UPS, the driver is covered by the National Labor Relations Act. The current reauthorization bill would place FedEx drivers and delivery people in the same category as UPS drivers, and cover their unionizing efforts under the NLRA.

Why does this matter? The NLRA allows local organizing for union contracts, work stoppages and other labor actions, whereas the RLA requires national contract organizing. Obviously, it is easier for workers to organize themselves at the local level than to organize the entire company at once. FedEx likes the RLA status for its workers and considers it ‘competitive.’ UPS and IBT, however, are supporting the FAA Reauthorization Act, which would put FedEx drivers under the jurisdiction of the NLRA. This move would make it easier for 100,000 FedEx workers to organize. To fight this, FedEx has launched an ad campaign calling the effort a “Brown Bailout,” capitalizing on the public’s distaste for corporate bailouts. </div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">UPS has been lobbying Washington to get this done for years. UPS knows they are at a disadvantage because they are at the mercy of the teamsters. Fedex has avoided unionization by treating their employees fairly throughout the years. I never knew a Fedex driver who wanted to work for UPS, but I knew plenty of UPS drivers who were always wanting to get on with Fedex. What does that tell you? Given the choice, and similar pay and working conditions, employees prefer a non-union environment.
The teamsters don't care about anything other than increasing their membership (more members means more money for them) They really can't offer Fedex drivers anything they don't already have. All they can do is cut into Fedex profits.

I was in Fedex management for several years. If my employees nneeded some help, I was there to help them. If the sort was running behind, I could pitch in and help. If a driver was running late, I could go out and help them get caught back up.

If the teamsters get their way, that would not be allowed to happen. UPS managers are not allowed to handle packages. The relationship at Fedex between management and employees was more of a team effort. At UPS, it was more like "us against them".

Care to make a guess which company had the higher employee morale?

Unions destroy businesses. I've seen it firsthand.

Steve </span>

LWW
03-11-2011, 04:37 AM
Again ... lower the bar if you expect it to be cleared.

You simply can't expect special olympians to compete at the same level as Jesse Owens.