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Gayle in MD
03-10-2011, 07:45 AM
Seeing how well Scott Walker’s attack on union membership is going, Senator Jim DeMint introduced a federal “right to work” bill today.
Joining with him are: Coburn, Hatch, Lee, Paul, Toomey, Vitter and Risch. As Reported In LaborRelations today, the proposed legislation would allow an exemption for “union security” agreements to discriminate based on union membership or support.

Demint claims

“No American should be forced to join a union and pay dues to get a job in this country,” said Senator DeMint. “Many Americans are already struggling just to put food on the table, and they shouldn’t have to fear losing their jobs or face discrimination if they don’t want to join a union. Forced-unionism shields unions from member accountability and has a detrimental effect on the economy. In states where companies are forced to hire only union workers, businesses have struggled to compete while they deal with counterproductive work rules.”

This is a classic union busting argument, which just doesn’t coincide with the facts.

Senator David Vitter justified his support for the bill by claiming:

“Traditionally, the American economy has been so exceptional because it had an innovative, flexible workforce,” said Senator Vitter. “But now, big labor bosses are trying to force employees into joining unions and paying dues – which comes directly out of your hard-earned paycheck and often directed to political activities that you may not support. To see the negative impacts of forced unionization, look no further than the struggling businesses in states whose laws allow it. It can’t be a coincidence that right to work states have on balance grown in population over the last 10 years, arguably at the expense of heavy union-favoring states.”

Now wait just a minute. Increase in population does not necessarily mean more or better employment opportunities. The Right to work states are: Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia and Wyoming. As shown in the table below, (courtesy of the Bureau of Labor Statistics) 12 of the 22 states have lower unemployment rates than the national average. The thing is 17 of collective bargaining states also have unemployment rates that are lower than the national average and six of the 10 states with the highest unemployment levels are right to work states.

1 NORTH DAKOTA * 3.8
2 NEBRASKA * 4.3
3 SOUTH DAKOTA * 4.7
4 NEW HAMPSHIRE 5.6
5 VERMONT 5.8
6 IOWA * 6.1
7 HAWAII 6.3
8 WYOMING * 6.4
9 VIRGINIA * 6.6
10 KANSAS * 6.8
10 OKLAHOMA * 6.8
12 MINNESOTA 6.9
13 MARYLAND 7.4
13 MONTANA 7.4
15 MAINE 7.5
15 UTAH * 7.5
15 WISCONSIN 7.5
18 LOUISIANA * 7.7
19 ALASKA 7.9
19 ARKANSAS * 7.9
21 NEW YORK 8.2
22 MASSACHUSETTS 8.3
22 TEXAS * 8.3
24 DELAWARE 8.5
24 PENNSYLVANIA 8.5
26 NEW MEXICO 8.6
27 COLORADO 8.9
28 CONNECTICUT 9.0
29 ALABAMA * 9.1
29 NEW JERSEY 9.1
31 ILLINOIS 9.2
32 WASHINGTON 9.3
33 TENNESSEE * 9.4
34 INDIANA 9.5
34 OHIO 9.5
36 ARIZONA * 9.6
36 DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 9.6
36 MISSOURI 9.6
39 IDAHO * 9.7
39 WEST VIRGINIA 9.7
41 NORTH CAROLINA * 9.8
42 MISSISSIPPI * 10.2
43 KENTUCKY 10.3
44 GEORGIA * 10.4
45 OREGON 10.6
46 SOUTH CAROLINA * 10.9
47 MICHIGAN 11.1
48 RHODE ISLAND 11.5
49 FLORIDA * 12.0
50 CALIFORNIA 12.5
51 NEVADA * 14.9

* Right to work states.

Then there’s the reality that wages are lower in “right to work” states or as a friend of mine put it “right to be exploited” states.

According to the Economic PolicyInstitute wages are lower as is the rate of employer-sponsored pensions in “right to work” states:



Wages in right-to-work states are 3.2% lower than those in non-RTW states, after controlling for a full complement of individual demographic and socioeconomic variables as well as state macroeconomic indicators. Using the average wage in non-RTW states as the base ($22.11), the average full-time, full-year worker in an RTW state makes about $1,500 less annually than a similar worker in a non-RTW state.
The rate of employer-sponsored pensions is 4.8 percentage points lower in RTW states, using the full complement of control variables in our regression model. If workers in non-RTW states were to receive pensions at this lower rate, 3.8 million fewer workers nationally would have pensions.
The bottom line is, Demint et al. are really just as anti-union and anti other 98% of America as the Koch brother’s puppet, Scott Walker.

http://nutsandolts.com/2011/03/09/demint-pulls-a-walker/

pooltchr
03-10-2011, 08:11 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Demint claims

“No American should be forced to join a union and pay dues to get a job in this country,”
</div></div>

Please explain why you think this statement is incorrect.

Steve

Sev
03-10-2011, 08:20 AM
Funny Indiana gutted collective bargaining and they now have a surplus.

eg8r
03-10-2011, 10:57 AM
Great so what you are showing us is the unions keep jobs available even when the work and productivity is not there. Thank goodness Scott Walker is doing what he is doing and hopefully more states keep up the good work.

eg8r

pooltchr
03-10-2011, 11:41 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

(courtesy of the Bureau of Labor Statistics) 12 of the 22 states have lower unemployment rates than the national average. </div></div>

So, roughly half are above the national average, and half are below the national average. Just about what would be expected.

Looks like there is little, if any, impact on unemployment, whether a state is right to work or not.

Do you actually read and comprehend the things you cut and paste here?

Steve

Soflasnapper
03-10-2011, 11:48 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Demint claims

“No American should be forced to join a union and pay dues to get a job in this country,”
</div></div>

Please explain why you think this statement is incorrect.

Steve </div></div>

No American is now forced to join a union and pay dues to get a job in this country.

They MAY be forced to change states of residence or where they work so as to avoid that, however.

We ALREADY have right to work states. States are able to decide to be right to work states or not. Some have, some have not.

Since state laws control which of these situations obtain, and some people do not like the choice that some states have made, this is an effort to force states that have chosen to have closed shop rules according to the will of their residents to not have that choice any longer, and force one policy down to all states from the federal level.

I guess 'true conservatives' who believe in states' rights and the 10th amendment are either liars or hypocrites when they support this kind of overweaning federal intrusion into state matters, or else people supporting such federal government overreach in an area they like are not true conservatives.

Sev
03-10-2011, 11:56 AM
Collective bargaining is not a right protected by the constitution.

Gayle in MD
03-10-2011, 11:58 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Demint claims

“No American should be forced to join a union and pay dues to get a job in this country,”
</div></div>

Please explain why you think this statement is incorrect.

Steve </div></div>

No American is now forced to join a union and pay dues to get a job in this country.

They MAY be forced to change states of residence or where they work so as to avoid that, however.

We ALREADY have right to work states. States are able to decide to be right to work states or not. Some have, some have not.

Since state laws control which of these situations obtain, and some people do not like the choice that some states have made, this is an effort to force states that have chosen to have closed shop rules according to the will of their residents to not have that choice any longer, and force one policy down to all states from the federal level.

I guess 'true conservatives' who believe in states' rights and the 10th amendment are either liars or hypocrites when they support this kind of overweaning federal intrusion into state matters, or else people supporting such federal government overreach in an area they like are not true conservatives.

</div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-size: 14pt'>I guess 'true conservatives' who believe in states' rights and the 10th amendment are either liars or hypocrites </span>when they support this kind of overweaning federal intrusion into state matters, or else people supporting such federal government overreach in an area they like are not true conservatives. </div></div>

Right on both counts!

And IMO, a Republican Conservative, is an oxymoron.

Republicans ALWAYS accuse the left of doing exactly what THEY THEMSELVES ARE actually doing.

They've done that for decades.

The best anyone can say abbout this sock puppet in Wisconsin, is that he is a SNEAK AND A LIAR!

G.

pooltchr
03-10-2011, 12:02 PM
Not quite. Each state does have the right to determine how the issue will be handled. What happens in WI has nothing to do with what happens in MI.
Nobody is forcing every state to do anything. The states seem to be deciding on their own, and they seem to be coming to the conclusion that unions are causing more problems than they solve.

Steve

ugotda7
03-10-2011, 01:04 PM
POS.................................

LWW
03-10-2011, 06:47 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Demint claims

“No American should be forced to join a union and pay dues to get a job in this country,”
</div></div>

Please explain why you think this statement is incorrect.

Steve </div></div>

Because dear leader told her it's incorrect.