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Soflasnapper
03-12-2011, 06:41 PM
Luftwaffe Over New York, a WW2 Secret

March 11, 2011 posted by Veterans Today · 4 Comments
The Most Dangerous Photo-Recon Mission of World War II

By Jim Newsom U.S.A.

On August 27th 1943, a German Luftwaffe long-range photo reconnaissance bomber, a Junkers Ju-390 took off from its base in Norway and flew out across the Atlantic Ocean. Among its four man crew was a brave and daring woman Anna Kreisling, the ‘White Wolf of the Luftwaffe’. A nickname she had acquired because of her frost blonde hair and icy blue eyes. Anna was one of the top pilots in Germany and even though she was only the co-pilot on this mission, her flying ability was crucial to its success.

The Ju-390 was twice the size of the B-29 Superfortress. It was powered by six 1,500 hp BMW radial engines and it had a range of 18,000 miles without refuelling.

This was to be the longest photo-recon mission flown by an enemy airplane in World War II. Nine hours later, the Junkers was over Canada and swinging south at an altitude of 22,000 feet. In the next few hours, it would photograph the heavy industrial plants in Michigan that were vital to the United States.

More here (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/03/11/86523/)

JohnnyD
03-12-2011, 06:58 PM
Excellent post.

wolfdancer
03-12-2011, 10:32 PM
That Junkers was fortunate it didn't run into Howard Hughes Spruce Goose, with HH and Jane R at the controls.
Another WWII story that you may not have heard is that Boston's infamous and tragic Coconut Grove fire may have been caused by German terrorists. It seems that German U-Boats were operating in Long Island Sound, and were supported by local German loyalists.
Reportedly the Germans had invented a gas filled light bulb that after being heated for some time would explode releasing flaming gas across the ceiling. There are conflicting reports as to the cause of the fire.
A factual, proven story was that German U-Boats were operating in Long Island sound, gathering info and supported by local German loyalists. German spies also frequented bars in Charlotte, N. C. a major embarkation supply port for both troops and supplies, gathering info on ship's movements. American ships were attacked and sunk off this port (loose lips, sink ships)
Google: "When World War II Was Fought off North Carolina's Beaches"

LWW
03-13-2011, 05:24 AM
The reason you never heard about it is that it never happened.

The first test flight of the JU-390 prototype happened months after this alleged flight.

pooltchr
03-13-2011, 07:43 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> German spies also frequented bars in Charlotte, N. C. a major embarkation supply port for both troops and supplies, gathering info on ship's movements. </div></div>

You may want to check your facts on this one. Charlotte is roughly 200 miles from the coast, and has no port at all, since there is no waterway linking Charlotte to the ocean.

Perhaps you were thinking of Charleston, SC, which is located on the coast, and actually a large navy base and port of call.

Easily confused, since the both start with the same 5 letters, but very different cities.

Steve

wolfdancer
03-13-2011, 10:06 AM
yes, I was mistaken....I am getting so much **** from you, that it was easy to confuse the two cities....and I have been in both.
We had a shipyard period in Charleston to get demagnetized, (they have another term for that, which escapes me)and years later a work assignment in Charlotte...

Soflasnapper
03-13-2011, 11:16 AM
demagnetized, (they have another term for that, which escapes me)

Degaussed?

Soflasnapper
03-13-2011, 11:18 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The reason you never heard about it is that it never happened.

The first test flight of the JU-390 prototype happened months after this alleged flight. </div></div>

I've been waiting a long time to say this when it is appropriate:

"OR SO THE GERMANS WOULD HAVE US BELIEVE!!!"

(I say it a lot when it is inappropriate, just funny)

So do you think this is a self-aggrandizing story from that lady, made up by her? And that the author was taken in by her story?

pooltchr
03-13-2011, 11:26 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yes, I was mistaken....I am getting so much **** from you, that it was easy to confuse the two cities....and I have been in both.
We had a shipyard period in Charleston to get demagnetized, (they have another term for that, which escapes me)and years later a work assignment in Charlotte... </div></div>

Glad to help out, buddy. I just thought I should point out the difference so you wouldn't look foolish making the same mistake somewhere where it really matters. I would hate for you to miss it after you told Alex "Let's make it a true daily double"!

Steve

JohnnyD
03-13-2011, 11:45 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yes, I was mistaken....I am getting so much **** from you, that it was easy to confuse the two cities....and I have been in both.
We had a shipyard period in Charleston to get demagnetized, (they have another term for that, which escapes me)and years later a work assignment in Charlotte... </div></div>

Glad to help out, buddy. I just thought I should point out the difference so you wouldn't look foolish making the same mistake somewhere where it really matters. I would hate for you to miss it after you told Alex "Let's make it a true daily double"!

Steve </div></div>
IF it wasn't for you SIR he couldn't make it thru the day as nobody else cares about him.LOL

wolfdancer
03-13-2011, 11:56 AM
odd how the mind works...I was pouring myself another cup of coffee; (I am addicted) and the word "degaussed" popped into my mind. That was the word I had been searching for.
As for looking foolish,it doesn't really bother me that much; part of the ongoing learning process is to occasionally make mistakes, sometimes foolish mistakes....in this case I just trusted my memory and erred.
I'll still be able to run 3 balls on a pool table, and shoot under 85 on a golf course, so a moment of embarrassment maybe, but no permanent damage to my psyche.
Thank you for pointing out my huge geographical mistake.

pooltchr
03-13-2011, 12:07 PM
I'll take Geography for 800, Alex!

Steve

LWW
03-13-2011, 01:27 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The reason you never heard about it is that it never happened.

The first test flight of the JU-390 prototype happened months after this alleged flight. </div></div>

I've been waiting a long time to say this when it is appropriate:

"OR SO THE GERMANS WOULD HAVE US BELIEVE!!!"

(I say it a lot when it is inappropriate, just funny)

So do you think this is a self-aggrandizing story from that lady, made up by her? And that the author was taken in by her story? </div></div>

Yeah, pretty much.

This myth is simply a reincarnation of the old myth.

It originated in the mid 1950's with a "letter to the editor" was sent to "RAF FLYING REVIEW" magazine.

It was never substantiated by anyone of any credibility, and continues to reincarnate itself about every ten years ... only to die on the funeral pyre of mythology yet again.

Conspiracy theorists such as yourself and hippiepool, who subscribe to Mel Gibson's characters core belief that "The most compelling evidence of a conspiracy is no evidence at all!", eat this kind of stuff up ... hence people keep reworking the same myths from time to tome.

The chances of this one being true are only slightly better than the Obregon-human hybrids operating a soul catcher beam between the Moon and the Great Pyramid ... which was the core claim of your last CT link.

LWW &lt;--- Volunteer member of the USAF Museum historical research team.

Soflasnapper
03-13-2011, 02:43 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The reason you never heard about it is that it never happened.

The first test flight of the JU-390 prototype happened months after this alleged flight. </div></div>

I've been waiting a long time to say this when it is appropriate:

"OR SO THE GERMANS WOULD HAVE US BELIEVE!!!"

(I say it a lot when it is inappropriate, just funny)

So do you think this is a self-aggrandizing story from that lady, made up by her? And that the author was taken in by her story? </div></div>

Yeah, pretty much.

This myth is simply a reincarnation of the old myth.

It originated in the mid 1950's with a "letter to the editor" was sent to "RAF FLYING REVIEW" magazine.

It was never substantiated by anyone of any credibility, and continues to reincarnate itself about every ten years ... only to die on the funeral pyre of mythology yet again.

Conspiracy theorists such as yourself and hippiepool, who subscribe to Mel Gibson's characters core belief that "The most compelling evidence of a conspiracy is no evidence at all!", eat this kind of stuff up ... hence people keep reworking the same myths from time to tome.

The chances of this one being true are only slightly better than the Obregon-human hybrids operating a soul catcher beam between the Moon and the Great Pyramid ... which was the core claim of your last CT link.

LWW &lt;--- Volunteer member of the USAF Museum historical research team. </div></div>

I didn't look into this interesting story prior to posting the link to this version, relying on the site to be credible (as it appeared to be).

Doing a little work since, there are certainly both critics and proponents of the story, and I cannot draw a firm conclusion yet.

There is another similar story about another flight, which is said to have reached within some 20 miles of NYC before turning around (thus, not first flying over Canada or the upper midwest in Michigan, so a different alleged flight).

What is your take on that different version?

LWW
03-13-2011, 03:06 PM
I find it impossible to believe that either flight took place before the first plane of that type was manufactured.

Even if the Germans had lied about the prototypes build date, and then destroyed all contradictory records and killed all eyewitnesses, it is exceedingly difficult to imagine that a first flight would have been one of such great distance and risk.

The flight near NYC is the flight reported in the 1950's.

It is a story of some interest as the Nazis were certainly capable of pulling it off, there just isn't any evidence that they actually did.

One of my many sideline interests is Nazi secret weapons programs, and they were certainly working on many things capable of hitting the mainland.

If you want to read some fascinating work on the subject, try this:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51jQvTbRoJL._SS500_.jpg

The work covers everything from the real, to the plausible, to the possible, to the nutty ... and discloses each as to why it is in the category it is placed within.

Most interesting, to me, was declassified data which demonstrates:

- The entire reason for the Battle of the Bulge was to get V2's equipped with dirty bombs back to within range of the English homeland.

- The US fusion bomb program almost certainly would have failed had a Nazi U-boat headed for Japan not surrendered to US forces. On board was a working implosion fuse, and it's designer, which was the one thing the Americans had not figured out. Also, enough weapons grade plutonium for two bombs.

- Evidence that the Nazis may well have done a successful underground fusion bomb test inside the Haartz mountains in the closing days of the war.

- Hitler's believe in anti gravity technology, and the massive amounts of capital spent attempting it.

- Data on the foo-fighters being a remote controlled jamming device.

wolfdancer
03-13-2011, 04:23 PM
I had come up with that term later on and thought I had posted it here. Oddly enough I had forgotten the subject, was brewing coffee, and the word popped into my mind. I've had similar incidents, where it took days for something to emerge (there's a lot of cobwebs in there)
It's said that we never forget anything that caught our interest, but our filing/retrieval system is a little dicey. Occasionally I've had childhood memories come to mind, something in the present triggering them.
On a "similar" concept....Tom Edison, the Wizard of <s>Westwood</s>, er, Menlo Park would run into a problem that he couldn't solve with conscious effort, take a nap, and wake up with the solution....
I've tried napping, but usually just wake up with a hangover...

LWW
03-13-2011, 05:52 PM
A civil post for a change.

BRAVO!

wolfdancer
03-13-2011, 06:03 PM
If you and your acerbic posts would depart from here, the board could return to what it once was before you arrived.
I preceded you here by a few years....and it was nowhere near as antagonistic as it has been since.
Personally, I don't think you can follow through on your threats of violence.....so you are just like the proverbial pissant

Soflasnapper
03-14-2011, 01:23 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find it impossible to believe that either flight took place before the first plane of that type was manufactured.

Even if the Germans had lied about the prototypes build date, and then destroyed all contradictory records and killed all eyewitnesses, it is exceedingly difficult to imagine that a first flight would have been one of such great distance and risk.

The flight near NYC is the flight reported in the 1950's.

It is a story of some interest as the Nazis were certainly capable of pulling it off, there just isn't any evidence that they actually did.

One of my many sideline interests is Nazi secret weapons programs, and they were certainly working on many things capable of hitting the mainland.

If you want to read some fascinating work on the subject, try this:

The work covers everything from the real, to the plausible, to the possible, to the nutty ... and discloses each as to why it is in the category it is placed within.

Most interesting, to me, was declassified data which demonstrates:

- The entire reason for the Battle of the Bulge was to get V2's equipped with dirty bombs back to within range of the English homeland.

- The US fusion bomb program almost certainly would have failed had a Nazi U-boat headed for Japan not surrendered to US forces. On board was a working implosion fuse, and it's designer, which was the one thing the Americans had not figured out. Also, enough weapons grade plutonium for two bombs.

- Evidence that the Nazis may well have done a successful underground fusion bomb test inside the Haartz mountains in the closing days of the war.

- Hitler's believe in anti gravity technology, and the massive amounts of capital spent attempting it.

- Data on the foo-fighters being a remote controlled jamming device.
</div></div>

I've recently seen some of this information myself, although not from this particular book you cite.

Of course, there may have been ample reasons for both Germany and the US to hide many details about a lot of things, and you cite a couple of previously top secret details only known now some generations after the fact from declassifications, etc.

The notion that we only got the trigger figured out by looking at the German prototype or first working model is a wildly new alleged fact in evidence, for instance. Others go so far as to say the devices we used on Japan were either seized German weapons, or the use of their enriched weapons grade material (beyond the use of their triggering designs or actual triggers). That would be staggering, if true, and would quite re-write everything conventional history tells us about the Manhattan Project and the Trinity test, etc.

Among the anecdotal claims about the JU-390 I ran across (which are semi-inherently uncheckable) include that there was clearly another one not officially acknowledged, but mentioned by Speer and others as having been in Siberia, I think it was.

Others claimed that the NY Times reported an air raid siren in NYC on this alleged date, and that German coastal navies were alerted to a possible water crash landing off of France on the day.

So, if fraud this is, somebody has fleshed out some claimed details that tend to support the fraud.

I think it's fascinating to find that even relatively recent and what you would think is exhaustively chronicled history, such as what went on in WW II, is still subject to great vagaries. But then that is very obviously still the case for far more recent history (Nov. '63, election 2000 and 2004), so finding it true for quite some time older events than these still controversial events is not wholly unexpected.

I presume you're familiar with 'The Bell,' if not Joe Farrell's work directly, and wonder what you think of that history?

LWW
03-14-2011, 04:00 PM
I don't think this flight is fraud so much as it is war stories by veterans in combination with a little mental lubrication ... as an addendum to what has been a civil thread, I could tell some amazing stories about things I've heard from overall reputable people affiliated with the base and/or museum. Alcohol does that to people ... sometimes causing things to be stretched, and sometimes leaked.

Soflasnapper
03-14-2011, 06:17 PM
Please regale me! You know I eat that sh!t up with a spoon, to quote somebody sometime.

wolfdancer
03-14-2011, 09:21 PM
quite an astounding, re: "WTF" comment by someone, who can't even begin a civil thread. It would be repetitious, for me to post a list of your recent thread titles, as that has already been done.
By the way, just reading the headings of your posts, saves one the tedious, and repugnant task of reading the body of the text.

wolfdancer
03-14-2011, 09:33 PM
"IF it wasn't for you SIR he couldn't make it thru the day as nobody else cares about him.LOL "
I don't really care much if nobody else here cares...
And.... I won't be resorting to the obsequious "sucking up" that
"some....lol" use in an attempt to curry favor from another...like the repetitive, obsequious "sir" honorific.

LWW
03-15-2011, 03:55 AM
Well, the most common one is that the above ground area of Wright Patterson AFB is less than half the size of the underground base ... which I find impossible to believe.

The "FOREIGN TECHNOLOGY DIVISION" is where all the best rumors come from.