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ugotda7
03-13-2011, 11:06 PM
Matewan - good movie, on earlier today, about WV coal mining in 1920 and the union vs the company.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matewan

Hello Hondo - ha, ha...not what you expected huh?

pooltchr
03-14-2011, 06:34 AM
I've been to Matewan, and I can tell you it is in the middle of one of the most economically depressed areas I have ever been to. I suppose the arguement could be made that if it weren't for the coal mining industry, it might even be worse than it is. The mines in that area would operate as long as they were producing, and then move on to another area, leaving virtual ghost towns when they left. The mining companies really didn't do much for the long term economy, and the unions didn't do much for the people either.

Those were tough times, and one need only to visit western WVa or eastern KY to see the results today. It is quite depressing.

I wish I had seen the movie.

Steve

hondo
03-14-2011, 07:13 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ugotda7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Matewan - good movie, on earlier today, about WV coal mining in 1920 and the union vs the company.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matewan

Hello Hondo - ha, ha...not what you expected huh? </div></div>

One of my all time favorite movies.
I did a lot, well, some, research on what actually happened.

hondo
03-14-2011, 07:14 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been to Matewan, and I can tell you it is in the middle of one of the most economically depressed areas I have ever been to. I suppose the arguement could be made that if it weren't for the coal mining industry, it might even be worse than it is. The mines in that area would operate as long as they were producing, and then move on to another area, leaving virtual ghost towns when they left. The mining companies really didn't do much for the long term economy, and the unions didn't do much for the people either.

Those were tough times, and one need only to visit western WVa or eastern KY to see the results today. It is quite depressing.

I wish I had seen the movie.

Steve </div></div>

I wish you had seen it too.

hondo
03-14-2011, 07:18 AM
Jennings made a good point about what is left after the mines dried up.
Widen, WV, is a good case in point.
At the height of the unions, Widen was prosperous.

When the coal operators left, what was left wasn't pretty.
I taught in that area in '77 and 78.

pooltchr
03-14-2011, 07:30 AM
Hondo,
You said "at the height of the unions", but you could just as easily have said "at the height of the mining industry".

I would be willing to bet that the little mining towns could have survived better without the unions, than they could have without the mining companies.

I'm not saying that the unions caused the mining companies to leave...they left because the mines were no longer producing. But the point is, without the mining companies, there are no jobs at all. Without the unions, the jobs may not have paid quite as well, but the unions in no way provided jobs.

So the question is, which is more valuable to a community, businesses, or unions?

Steve

Qtec
03-14-2011, 07:48 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would be willing to bet that the little mining towns could have survived better without the unions, than they could have without the mining companies. </div></div>

If the miners of today would just work for $1.50 an hour they could open up old mines because they would now be profitable.

You have absolutely no clue about unions or how they came about or why they are necessary.

Q

ugotda7
03-14-2011, 09:27 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would be willing to bet that the little mining towns could have survived better without the unions, than they could have without the mining companies. </div></div>

If the miners of today would just work for $1.50 an hour they could open up old mines because they would now be profitable.

You have absolutely no clue about unions or how they came about or why they are necessary.

Q </div></div>

Correction - were necessary.

pooltchr
03-14-2011, 10:20 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You have absolutely no clue about unions or how they came about or why they are necessary.

Q </div></div>

Having been in both union and non-union environments, I actually do have a clue.
I'm just not a leftist radical who fails to see the long term damage that they have done.
The simple fact is that unions exist for one reason...they are a business. The more people they can sell on the idea of union membership, the more money they take in.
If you think unions are all about getting the best deal for their members, you are a bigger fool than previously thought.

Steve

hondo
03-14-2011, 11:53 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hondo,
You said "at the height of the unions", but you could just as easily have said "at the height of the mining industry".

I would be willing to bet that the little mining towns could have survived better without the unions, than they could have without the mining companies.

I'm not saying that the unions caused the mining companies to leave...they left because the mines were no longer producing. But the point is, without the mining companies, there are no jobs at all. Without the unions, the jobs may not have paid quite as well, but the unions in no way provided jobs.

So the question is, which is more valuable to a community, businesses, or unions?

Steve </div></div>

jennings, I realize you are a hard core rigtht winger but please watch Matewan. It will at least put a little perspective on what "better off" means.
Thank you.

hondo
03-14-2011, 11:55 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would be willing to bet that the little mining towns could have survived better without the unions, than they could have without the mining companies. </div></div>

If the miners of today would just work for $1.50 an hour they could open up old mines because they would now be profitable.

You have absolutely no clue about unions or how they came about or why they are necessary.

Q </div></div>

Q, this is why I wish he would watch Matewan.
Have you ever seen it?

hondo
03-14-2011, 12:00 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ugotda7</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would be willing to bet that the little mining towns could have survived better without the unions, than they could have without the mining companies. </div></div>

If the miners of today would just work for $1.50 an hour they could open up old mines because they would now be profitable.

You have absolutely no clue about unions or how they came about or why they are necessary.

Q </div></div>

Correction - were necessary. </div></div>

Yugo, I see many of the same disturbing things you see about unions.
The difference , IMO, is that you want to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
In the short run, no unions may be a good thing.
In the long term it will widen the gap between the haves and the have nots, I believe.

Read 1984. It was written by either George Orwell or LWW, I can't remember. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Have a good day.

ugotda7
03-14-2011, 12:19 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ugotda7</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would be willing to bet that the little mining towns could have survived better without the unions, than they could have without the mining companies. </div></div>

If the miners of today would just work for $1.50 an hour they could open up old mines because they would now be profitable.

You have absolutely no clue about unions or how they came about or why they are necessary.

Q </div></div>

Correction - were necessary. </div></div>

Yugo, I see many of the same disturbing things you see about unions.
The difference , IMO, is that you want to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
In the short run, no unions may be a good thing.
In the long term it will widen the gap between the haves and the have nots, I believe.

Read 1984. It was written by either George Orwell or LWW, I can't remember. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Have a good day. </div></div>

I tend to agree.

Unions were a good thing back in the day...but now they are just a tool used to extort in an effort to maintain money and power. And the irony is that the more unions do these days to highlight themselves in an effort to maintain money and power the more that people see that this is simply what they're all about. And for that they are simply hastening their own extinction....which I firmly believe is a good thing.

hondo
03-14-2011, 12:27 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ugotda7</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ugotda7</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would be willing to bet that the little mining towns could have survived better without the unions, than they could have without the mining companies. </div></div>

If the miners of today would just work for $1.50 an hour they could open up old mines because they would now be profitable.

You have absolutely no clue about unions or how they came about or why they are necessary.

Q </div></div>

Correction - were necessary. </div></div>

Yugo, I see many of the same disturbing things you see about unions.
The difference , IMO, is that you want to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
In the short run, no unions may be a good thing.
In the long term it will widen the gap between the haves and the have nots, I believe.

Read 1984. It was written by either George Orwell or LWW, I can't remember. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Have a good day. </div></div>

I tend to agree.

Unions were a good thing back in the day...but now they are just a tool used to extort in an effort to maintain money and power. And the irony is that the more unions do these days to highlight themselves in an effort to maintain money and power the more that people see that this is simply what they're all about. And for that they are simply hastening their own extinction....which I firmly believe is a good thing. </div></div>

We clearly disagree yet both of us replied with civility.
It can be done, can't it? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

JohnnyD
03-14-2011, 01:11 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ugotda7</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ugotda7</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would be willing to bet that the little mining towns could have survived better without the unions, than they could have without the mining companies. </div></div>

If the miners of today would just work for $1.50 an hour they could open up old mines because they would now be profitable.

You have absolutely no clue about unions or how they came about or why they are necessary.

Q </div></div>

Correction - were necessary. </div></div>

Yugo, I see many of the same disturbing things you see about unions.
The difference , IMO, is that you want to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
In the short run, no unions may be a good thing.
In the long term it will widen the gap between the haves and the have nots, I believe.

Read 1984. It was written by either George Orwell or LWW, I can't remember. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Have a good day. </div></div>

I tend to agree.

Unions were a good thing back in the day...but now they are just a tool used to extort in an effort to maintain money and power. And the irony is that the more unions do these days to highlight themselves in an effort to maintain money and power the more that people see that this is simply what they're all about. And for that they are simply hastening their own extinction....which I firmly believe is a good thing. </div></div>

We clearly disagree yet both of us replied with civility.
It can be done, can't it? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div> But you can't be trusted.
YOU do not tell the truth.
The truth is trying to find you.The truth will NEVER go away.

I will GUARANTEE YOU the truth about this will NEVER go away.


STOLEN VALOR ACT.

ugotda7
03-14-2011, 02:47 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ugotda7</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ugotda7</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would be willing to bet that the little mining towns could have survived better without the unions, than they could have without the mining companies. </div></div>

If the miners of today would just work for $1.50 an hour they could open up old mines because they would now be profitable.

You have absolutely no clue about unions or how they came about or why they are necessary.

Q </div></div>

Correction - were necessary. </div></div>

Yugo, I see many of the same disturbing things you see about unions.
The difference , IMO, is that you want to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
In the short run, no unions may be a good thing.
In the long term it will widen the gap between the haves and the have nots, I believe.

Read 1984. It was written by either George Orwell or LWW, I can't remember. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Have a good day. </div></div>

I tend to agree.

Unions were a good thing back in the day...but now they are just a tool used to extort in an effort to maintain money and power. And the irony is that the more unions do these days to highlight themselves in an effort to maintain money and power the more that people see that this is simply what they're all about. And for that they are simply hastening their own extinction....which I firmly believe is a good thing. </div></div>

We clearly disagree yet both of us replied with civility.
It can be done, can't it? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div>


Sure....it can be done.....but sometimes we just can't help ourselves.

hondo
03-14-2011, 03:03 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ugotda7</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ugotda7</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ugotda7</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would be willing to bet that the little mining towns could have survived better without the unions, than they could have without the mining companies. </div></div>

If the miners of today would just work for $1.50 an hour they could open up old mines because they would now be profitable.

You have absolutely no clue about unions or how they came about or why they are necessary.

Q </div></div>

Correction - were necessary. </div></div>

Yugo, I see many of the same disturbing things you see about unions.
The difference , IMO, is that you want to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
In the short run, no unions may be a good thing.
In the long term it will widen the gap between the haves and the have nots, I believe.

Read 1984. It was written by either George Orwell or LWW, I can't remember. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Have a good day. </div></div>

I tend to agree.

Unions were a good thing back in the day...but now they are just a tool used to extort in an effort to maintain money and power. And the irony is that the more unions do these days to highlight themselves in an effort to maintain money and power the more that people see that this is simply what they're all about. And for that they are simply hastening their own extinction....which I firmly believe is a good thing. </div></div>

We clearly disagree yet both of us replied with civility.
It can be done, can't it? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div>


Sure....it can be done.....but sometimes we just can't help ourselves.
</div></div>

True dat. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif