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Gayle in MD
03-23-2011, 08:43 AM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/22/moshe-katsav-jailed-seven-years-rape

Moshe Katsav handed seven-year prison sentence for rape
Former Israeli president set to appeal after being jailed for raping one woman and sexually harassing two other staff

Former Israeli president Moshe Katsav has been sentenced to seven years in prison for rape and other sexual offences following a year-long trial which ended with his conviction in December.

Katsav, president from 2000 to 2007, said he was innocent and was being persecuted by the courts and Israeli society at large. He is expected to appeal.

Katsav was convicted of two counts of rape of an employee at the tourism ministry, where he was minister from 1996-1999. He was also convicted of the indecent assault and sexual harassment of two other employees at the President's Residence in Jerusalem during his presidency.

The president was given the chance of a plea bargain in which he could admit lesser charges but chose to fight all charges in a trial which, although conducted in private, was accompanied by leaks from both sides in the media.

The judges told the court: "The crime of rape damages and destroys a person's soul Due to the severity of the crime, the punishment must be clear and precise. The defendant committed the crime and like every other person, he must bear the consequences. No man is above the law."

Katsav, 65, sobbed and interrupted the judges repeatedly. "You are all wrong. It's all lies The women know they are lying. They are laughing at this judgment," he said.

The former president was also ordered to pay 100,000 shekels (17,000) to the rape victim and 25,000 shekels to each of the other victims.

The rape victim, known in public as Complainant A, told the Israeli press on Monday: "I am not vengeful, but I think the court should send a message. Regardless of how many years he spends in prison, Katsav will always be a villain. The number of years is not the issue here, but the harsh verdict, which proved that Katsav committed these despicable acts and raped me."

Speaking on Israeli television after the sentence, Binyamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, under whom Katsav served as minister of tourism and deputy prime minister said that it was a day of shame and pride for Israel.

"This is an extraordinary day in the State of Israel. This is a day of sadness and shame, but it is also a day of deep appreciation and pride for the Israeli justice system," he said.

"The court issued a sharp and unequivocal ruling on a simple principle, that of equality before the law. Nobody is above the law, not even a former president, all are subject to the law."

While police investigations and trials of prime ministers and ministers is reasonably common in Israel the former prime minister, Ehud Olmert and current foreign minister, Avigdor Lieberman are both currently being investigated on suspicion of financial crimes the enormity of Katsav's crimes has shocked Israel.

Katsav migrated to Israel from Iran in 1951, his early life was typical of the hardship experienced by many Middle Eastern Jews who migrated to Israel. He and his family lived in a succession of tented transit camps until one was renamed the development town of Kiryat Malakhi, which became his political base.

Many Middle Eastern Jews felt discriminated against by the European elite in the early days of the Israeli state. Katsav's political career mirrored the growing self-confidence of Middle Eastern Jews which translated into the rise of the Likud party, which eventually broke the Labour party domination of Israeli government.

The first day of Katsav's incarceration has not yet been made public. He has been given 45 days to appeal to the supreme court.




<span style="color: #990000"> <span style='font-size: 14pt'>Should have been a life sentence! If they do it once, they're do it again!</span> </span>

Soflasnapper
03-24-2011, 07:54 PM
Actually, recidivism rates for rapists are not that high from what I've been able to see, so I do not favor such a high sentence.

I think rape was once punishable by death (although there is no death penalty in Israel except for WW II war crimes), but people figured out that making the penalty for rape the same as for murder meant that rape victims were then likely to be murdered after the rape. Making the penalty life imprisonment would probably create the same bad incentive to kill the rape victim, so as to avoid that near-highest level of punishment.

All that said, this guy is a wretch. And for once Netanyahu got it right, that this is both a shame for Israel, and yet a proud moment as well, in that so high an official could be brought to justice.

Gayle in MD
03-25-2011, 05:11 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All that said, this guy is a wretch. And for once Netanyahu got it right, that this is both a shame for Israel, and yet a proud moment as well, in that so high an official could be brought to justice. </div></div>

I have to agree with you on this much, your comment above, particularly since our record for indicting and jailing the top officials in the last administration, Bush/Cheney et al, is pitiful, given all of the laws they broke. But then, he did politicize the entire Department of Justice, with Bushies.

About the rape information, I haven't seen the statistics, recently, but when I hear, nearly everyday, about another woman, or child, raped and murdered, it would seem to me that killing their victims, is their Modus Operandi, unless it is an on-going sexual abuse, of a woman or child where there will be continued access.

I'd still prefer the death penalty, for every rape case, as long as the DNA, and other evidence, clearly proved the case, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

G.

LWW
03-25-2011, 05:22 AM
You don't know Gee very well do you.

He is both Jewish and a conservative.

From her prior posts, I suspect those have more to do with her cries for the death penalty than the actual crime committed.

If you doubt me, ask her opinion of Juanita Boaddrick or Paula Jones. I wonder if she believes Billy Jeff should also receive the death penalty?

Soflasnapper
03-25-2011, 03:08 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You don't know Gee very well do you.

He is both Jewish and a conservative.

From her prior posts, I suspect those have more to do with her cries for the death penalty than the actual crime committed.

If you doubt me, ask her opinion of Juanita Boaddrick or Paula Jones. I wonder if she believes Billy Jeff should also receive the death penalty? </div></div>

Anti-conservative? Yes. Anti-Jewish? I haven't seen it.

However, her clear feminist position is obvious, and far more likely to account for her position than what you suggest. Women in general seem to oppose rape, and feminist women, all the more so. (As should all people, not meaning to imply anything to the contrary.)

As for Jones, she didn't allege rape, but bad employment treatment such as denial of raises, which she said was due to sexual harrassment in the workplace related to whatever had happened before. (Since she had provably received raises, her lawsuit was thrown out before trial as failing to state any real cause of action.)

Juanita Broaddrick's allegations were mooted by the statute of limitations (for starters), and her claims of having a severe bite wound on her lips that nearly severed her lips was belied by her spouse not ever seeing it (??) although being in her presence shortly thereafter, and her RN friend who helped her, not making sure she got a tetanus shot and other medical treatment, absolutely required from that most septic of all wounds, the human bite wound (IN HER MOUTH). That is to say, she provably lied as to these details, which impeaches the rest of her allegations as well.

pooltchr
03-25-2011, 03:45 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Anti-conservative? Yes. Anti-Jewish? I haven't seen it.

</div></div>

You obviously haven't read any of her rants when she gets on her anti Isreal soapbox.

Steve

LWW
03-25-2011, 04:35 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Anti-conservative? Yes. Anti-Jewish? I haven't seen it.

</div></div>

You obviously haven't read any of her rants when she gets on her anti Isreal soapbox.

Steve </div></div>

To say the least.

Gee, aitch, and Snoopy have all made anti semitic posts which would have made Haerman Goering blush.

Soflasnapper
03-25-2011, 05:12 PM
You obviously haven't read any of her rants when she gets on her anti Isreal soapbox.

That's correct; I haven't seen that, either.

However, it should be pointed out that the case against Israel, even before its creation, was led by the Orthodox community, as against the will of G-d.

Simple concept. Read Jeremiah. For if G-d had given it to them as a patrimony, who exactly could have possibly taken it away? Orthodox Jewry answered, obviously it WAS G-D HIMSELF!

According to Jeremiah and other sacred texts in the Bible, only G-d can call the nation of Israel back, once they've perfected themselves enough to warrant the return of the Messiah. This will be heralded by the return of Elijah, who never died, but was taken bodily to heaven in a whirlwind. This is why every seder table in celebration of Passover has an empty seat and place-setting (for Elijah), and why they say at the end of the seder, 'next year in Jerusalem!' They don't mean that they'll be saving up the airplane ticket cost, but that hopefully, the following year will see the advent of Elijah and then the Messiah, so that they can be brought together in Israel BY G-D.

Any attempted return to reconstitute the nation of Israel would be expressly against G-d's command, and the Orthodox Jewry knew that the predominately atheist Zionists performing this task by human means were committing a grievous sin.

Orthodox Jewry has slowly changed their mind, at least in some quarters of it. Neturei Karta is one Orthodox group continuing in this position, and others can be found by googling jews against zionism.

pooltchr
03-25-2011, 09:03 PM
Do you have some issue that prevents you from actually spelling out the name God?

Steve

LWW
03-26-2011, 03:48 AM
I was wondering the same thing ... and he seems to have at least a vendetta against Israel for some reason.

Soflasnapper
03-26-2011, 03:14 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you have some issue that prevents you from actually spelling out the name God?

Steve </div></div>

Not at all, and I usually do spell it out, as reference to some of my other posts will show.

I did the vowel omission thing in this case out of respect for Judaism, whose views I was describing. This is a convention used by observant Jews when writing the name of God in English, just as the Tetragrammaton of YHWH (using the equivalent Hebrew letters) spells Jehovah without using vowels.

Kind of an affectation, I'll admit, but done as an homage, not to make fun.

Gayle in MD
03-27-2011, 09:45 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You don't know Gee very well do you.

He is both Jewish and a conservative.

From her prior posts, I suspect those have more to do with her cries for the death penalty than the actual crime committed.

If you doubt me, ask her opinion of Juanita Boaddrick or Paula Jones. I wonder if she believes Billy Jeff should also receive the death penalty? </div></div>

Anti-conservative? Yes. Anti-Jewish? I haven't seen it.

However, her clear feminist position is obvious, and far more likely to account for her position than what you suggest. Women in general seem to oppose rape, and feminist women, all the more so. (As should all people, not meaning to imply anything to the contrary.)

As for Jones, she didn't allege rape, but bad employment treatment such as denial of raises, which she said was due to sexual harrassment in the workplace related to whatever had happened before. (Since she had provably received raises, her lawsuit was thrown out before trial as failing to state any real cause of action.)

Juanita Broaddrick's allegations were mooted by the statute of limitations (for starters), and her claims of having a severe bite wound on her lips that nearly severed her lips was belied by her spouse not ever seeing it (??) although being in her presence shortly thereafter, and her RN friend who helped her, not making sure she got a tetanus shot and other medical treatment, absolutely required from that most septic of all wounds, the human bite wound (IN HER MOUTH). That is to say, she provably lied as to these details, which impeaches the rest of her allegations as well. </div></div>

I don't think any NORMAL person would read my posts, and not realize that I am always against persecution of any group, particularly ethnic persecution, but sexual, gender, ethnic, any and all discrimination, and/pr persecution, of any and all "Groups."

As usual, the RW attackers, continue with their lies and slander...any criticisms of Israel, is about their overkill, literally, in every confrontation with Lebanon, their inhukane actions, blocking food, water, medical supplies, and beraking international law. Lebanon is also a country with HUMANN BEINGS.

It is my opinion, that the Israeli Lobby, is far too powerful, as regards our foreign policy, in our country, and that they take our money, and then thumb their noses at us when we ask their cooperation in bringing peace to their region.

I stand by those opinions.

G.