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View Full Version : Morals.... Gambling vs. Stealing



09-11-2002, 03:15 PM
Hi all,
Last night, after a tournament, a player of lower ability asked me what I was giving up. I believe I could spot him the 7&8, with him being sober and still come out on top. He was drunk and I just told him he had a few too many and I wouldn't feel right playing him in his current condition.
Some may also remember from a few months ago where I said I am no longer gambling.
I was just curious how many of you deal with a conscience similar to mine. Would you have played, and robbed the guy with no guilty feelings, or do as I did.
I have slipped on my no gambling a little, but the players I play are better than or equal to myself. I have one Pro friend that I will play 6 ahead for a $100.00 with the winner buying dinner. I look at it as "tuition" with dinners provided /ccboard/images/icons/laugh.gif. But I still feel bad playing in a soft match where I know my opponent has no chance.

Amanda
09-11-2002, 03:35 PM
In most cases I'd do the same thing you did. I don't gamble for the money as much as I gamble to push me to play my best. And never gamble with money I can't afford to lose. I also know some people that when drunk can tend to play quite well and prefer to catch them early in the evening when they are still sober!
Either way, I like to make the game challenging and exciting, I'm not trying to pay the rent so there's no need to take advantage of people. To me the money games and the tournaments are ways for me to play under pressure with something at stake. After all the tournaments are putting up some money in the hopes I win it back, not all that different.
Now on a different note from the person who is drunk and not able to play well, there are the fools with more money than brains. That's a hard one to turn down. After all, if they don't lose it to me they will lose to someone else. I'm not hustling them, they know my level of play and still want the game. It doesnt happen often but I just can't walk away from it.
Anyhow thats my 2 cents worth, interested in seeing what others may say.
Amanda

heater451
09-11-2002, 04:16 PM
Would you consider taking him for as much as you could, but then giving it back to him when he was sober?

You could tell him that you were holding it for him, because he was drunk, and you didn't want him to do something foolish with it. . . .


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09-11-2002, 05:50 PM
No moral reason I do not take this lushes money..
I just do not want the trouble..
Prime example in my fav hall on saturday night..
One of the "better" players in town is pretty gassed, and he is playing, and losing to a guy who is not a bad shot, but should be no-where in this other guys class..

Anyway.. I am watching, and hoping to take on the non-drunk youngster after he is up a few bucks..
But of course, with alcohol involved, the drunk guy, loses track of how much he owes.. It was 80 bucks, they were playing for 20's.. I know the drunk guy, and when asked what he owes, I indicate that I have seen him lose 80 dollars..

Well he of course goes ballistic, starts the offensive language, and eventually when the tantrum subsides, ends up demanding that he only pay 20 bucks..
Which the young guy agrees is fine, just to defuse the sitation..

Drunk people, it seems like such easy money, until their liquid soaked brain cannot figure out how, or what they owe..

Just not worth it..
A few beers into them is fine.. Drunk, avoid em..

That is all, continue with your pursuit of excellence..

cArson

09-11-2002, 05:56 PM
There is a guy here in Phoenix that they call 'ATM Bob' (which should give you a clue as to how often he wins). He was gambling (and apparently losing because he had NO shot of winning) so much that the owner of the bar he hung out in called his wife down there to tell her what was going on and to make sure it was ok with her! /webbbs/images/icons/laugh.gif Needless to say, she said, "it's his money." That was a few years ago so I don't know how he's doing these days.

09-11-2002, 06:08 PM
I feel that the question is one of ethics. Should a mechanic charge you more once he notices your tag is from out of state or should he be fair and charge you what he charges his regular customers. People looking for excuses to justify being unethical will always find them. We refer to it as a gamble but how can it be a gamble if the results are known. On wall street it's referred to as insider trading. The bottom line is each of us has to live with the things we do (good or bad). What you choose to live with defines the type of person you are and what rung of society you belong to. Personally, I really enjoy gambling within my limits and as long as I feel my opponent has equal pressure to level the playing field.

Vagabond
09-12-2002, 08:01 AM
Howdy Folks,
Definition of morals depend upon the religion u practice.
Definitions of gambling and stealing depend on the state u live in and the books u read.Examples:(1)If u are sending these messages to ccb from your work place,it is called stealing from your employer(2)when u ask a girl out for a date you are gambling.I do not mind gambling! LOL.Cheers
vagabond

09-12-2002, 09:42 AM

Jay M
09-12-2002, 10:29 AM
So where do you draw the line?

For me, I only play fair games. I don't want to walk all over someone and I don't want them to walk all over me. Every area has it's "lamb killers". Here there is one guy that won't play a game that isn't COMFORTABLY easy. If he needs one ball, he won't play without 3. He's also pretty much universally despised.

On the other side of the coin is CM Lee. Here's a guy who, when playing for jellybeans, stopped me and explained why I was shooting the wrong shot and what the right shot was, and it WAS the right shot, a game winner in fact. A true gentleman and a great player. CM is universally liked and respected.

Which would you prefer? for me, I'd rather be known as a gentleman than to make money at the expense of others (although I also try not to lose too often).

Jay M

09-12-2002, 10:50 AM
"What you choose to live with defines the type of person you are and what rung of society you belong to."

What? My rung of society is determined by my sense of ethics? News to me!

~~~~ Former Enron exec, relaxing in my Florida mansion and protected from true bancruptcy ~~~~~

09-12-2002, 12:05 PM
My take:

1)Like Carson indicated...Never gamble with a drunk person. Ever.

2)I have no compunction gambling with someone when they approach me, especially if I know I can beat them. They have only themselves to blame if they walked into it blindly.

3)I almost never have a problem matching up with a "weaker" player (even if I absolutely know that I have the "nuts"), because somewhere in their delusion they think they can beat you. I don't think they would feel bad about taking your money!

4) Some players, including myself, will gamble with a better player for the experience, even though I know that I will probably lose over the long run. I matched up with a very well know one-pocket player who offered me a spot. I declined, saying, "I'd rather play you even, for $10 a game if that is OK". I surprised myself and only lost $30 after playing for 4 hours. I left feeling that I had both learned and accomplished alot after that match. Probably felt better than if I had received a spot and beat him. I know that he had no problem taking my money.

5)Under no circumstances do I ever hustle! I play my best at all times, regardless of the opponent. More than likely, if my opponent is outclassed, he/she will quit before there is too much bloodletting.

6)I personally feel that I am under no obligation to "adjust" the spot (winning or losing). All to often I will see players continue to adjust the spot until they lose all their money back to the player they just beat. This is the disease called: "you have to give me a chance to win my money back". Nope. However I will adjust the spot to where I feel that it is 50/50.

Regards,

Doug

09-12-2002, 05:51 PM
Back in the day, before responsibilities, When a spot was agreed upon, giving or receiving, I made the point well known there would not be any adjusting of the spot during this particular match.
Heater that sounds like something I would do, I've let people out for just the time, a time or two. Odd thing though, no one has ever done that for me.

09-28-2002, 02:40 PM
Scott,

you play so bad you couldn't spot a corpse the 7&8. i think the dead guy could beat you getting that spot. its sadwhen someone pratices like you do with all those drills and still can't play a lick. YOU SUCK..... QUIT ALREADY. Everybody on this board should know scott is a pathetic banger and should not pay any attension to him.

09-28-2002, 10:34 PM
HELL.."NO MERCY" IS MY MOTTO! IF THE GUY WANTS TO PLAY EVEN, I WOULD HAVE TO JUMP UP THERE AND PLAY! IT ALL ABOUT THE MONEY! FOR THOSE PPL NOT WANTIN TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE DRUNK OR LESS CAPABLE PLAYER, ITS PPL LIKE U THAT THE GAMBLERS PREY UPON!!!

09-28-2002, 11:59 PM
Whew! Big words spoken from a coward. I never claimed to be a world beater. As for me losing to a corpse with the 7&8, your right, I do have a hard time beating "The Ghost" but with the 7&8 I might have a chance. As for my drills, step up and I will show you my special drill for a$$holes, you gutless $hit.
In reply to your, I suck, can't play a lick and should quit. I may be a pathetic banger in your opinion, but I am not a pathetic excuse for a human being that seeks pleasure in attempting to mindf*%k another person, trying to whither their self-confidence. I have too much heart for that.
You apparently know who I am. You then should know I am not scared of anyone.... Hmmm I think it is pretty obvious you are scared of me! Which you should be, after all it would be really embarrasing to lose to a "Pathetic Banger", such as myself. Step Up, if you beat my best game, then you are a better player, but never a better person.

09-29-2002, 12:31 AM
You got that right. I genuinely believe that what we choose is not just who we are, but what we become. It's what I call the existential choice, because it defines our existence.

Now, what does that mean for your position in society? Not much, not now, not ever. Watch "A Man for All Seasons" and "The Spy Who Came in From the Cold" for the depressing truth of this old world.

On that note ...

Bob

Chris Cass
09-29-2002, 08:18 AM
Hi Scott,

I've gambled all my life. I went down that road too. I used to wait till 3am to go to the local bar that was the spot where everyone headed after the rest of the bars closed. It was a very seady place to say the least.

I played these people who were on everything, Acid, THC, Mescallin(sp), Weed, Haroin, Cocaine, and who know's? The drunk was a welcome. I did this on the weekends, every weekend. I'd use unorthadox bridges and unbalanced stances, you name it to hide my speed.

I learned the art of gambling throughout the yrs. There's a certain way to take someones money while they're under the influence of any substance. I didn't get rich over it nor did I stay broke. I made an average of a couple hundred per weekend.

This got old in a few yrs and as my customers seemed to catch a clue as they seen me win at all the bars they frequented. They would clue people in while I was there and basically knocked all my action.

Next, I tried another approach. I'd tell them as they put their quarters in that the last guy played for $20. Then, they'd say something like, I can't play for $20. but I'll play for $5. or $10. I'd reply that's ok, I'm really good. This would get me alot of games. I soon found out how ego could make you money. There is a different way to take someones money that's pissed at you and your being candid. You have to make them feel privilaged. Make them feel they're one notch under your speed, in front of others. Respected.

Now days it's different for me. I love the sport and always had. I don't have to depend on money or the dangers of playing these people under the influence. I was at a tourney recently where a really excellent shooter asked me to gamble some. He said he was drunk. I declined and told him, not in his present condition. I could have, with no fear of problems but told him, " No,I want you to remember everything."

Through these yrs. of dancing around drunks. I've learned they're more trouble than they're worth. Also, that pool doesn't develope character but reflexs it. I did what I had to or what I thought was an easy way to come up. Now, I've learned it's about you. It's about the right way.

I still gamble and if the guy has a few, it's ok. I just don't need the problems. I like challenging my skills against others whether it be for money or free. I never cheat nor do I shark. What's right? I don't know, I just know me alittle more each day.

Regards,

C.C.~~likes Scott E. and his character.

09-29-2002, 12:31 PM
Interesting, informative, philosophical and wise. I really enjoyed your post, Chris. Thanks.

All the best,
Bob

Chris Cass
09-29-2002, 09:36 PM
Why thank you sir. I've never seen any one of those words in a sentence refering to me. I'm floor'd Bob.

Thank you,

C.C.