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KalboKev
03-27-2011, 07:52 AM
I've tried the laminated ones, seem to "separate" too much for my liking? Once is too much as I see it???? Maybe it's the humidity here, or maybe they are old??? Or a combination??
Most Pinoy's (like Efren normally) takes a standard Elk-Master and "compresses" it in a vice between a couple coins for a half hour or so, MAKE it hard. No money when you're young, make it work. Still works "when" you have money, "used to it", why change??????
With that said, I prefer a Brunswick Blue Diamond tip and Green Triangle chalk.

bataisbest
03-27-2011, 10:50 AM
I like Le Pro best.I tried a few Moori's but have always gone back to LePro because it is easier to shape and scuff. I guess if you don't really do much to your tip, MOORI is good. But for me, I always shape and scuff when needed, and I noticed that I couldn't do that as well with a Moori tip.

Sid_Vicious
03-28-2011, 02:15 AM
I've used Moori tips for over a decade, and never had a delamination. I almost never touch one with a scuffer, and the shape remains contoured to my stroke, so there is never a need for that either. My tips last forever. People who grind off the layered tips with over attention are asking for their own troubles IMHO. sid

cushioncrawler
03-28-2011, 02:49 AM
Shaping a tip uzing sandpaper etc sounds suss to me.
If ever one of my (10mm and 11mm) tips starts getting too much out of shape, i giv the fat area a hiding with a metal plate, ie to simulate hitting a ball lots and lots.
I am thinking that this (beating method) might be ok for your big fat 13mm tips too.
mac.

KalboKev
03-28-2011, 03:45 AM
Sid, "just" last week I tried a Moori--again..... Nothing big, fourth hit out of the gate, the tip fell off??? I tip my own cues, and it clearly separated. Had to sand a while to get that first "layer" off the ferule. I'll stay "old fashioned".
Trust what you know works is what I'm thinking.

Rich R.
03-28-2011, 07:47 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KalboKev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sid, "just" last week I tried a Moori--again..... Nothing big, fourth hit out of the gate, the tip fell off??? I tip my own cues, and it clearly separated. Had to sand a while to get that first "layer" off the ferule. I'll stay "old fashioned".
Trust what you know works is what I'm thinking. </div></div>
I hate to say it but I think you have an installation problem, not a Moori problem.
All layered tips require a little extra care and technique during installation. I've been using Moori's, on a number of cues, for almost 10 years and I've never had one seperate.

SpiderMan
03-28-2011, 01:54 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich R.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KalboKev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sid, "just" last week I tried a Moori--again..... Nothing big, fourth hit out of the gate, the tip fell off??? I tip my own cues, and it clearly separated. Had to sand a while to get that first "layer" off the ferule. I'll stay "old fashioned".
Trust what you know works is what I'm thinking. </div></div>
I hate to say it but I think you have an installation problem, not a Moori problem.
All layered tips require a little extra care and technique during installation. I've been using Moori's, on a number of cues, for almost 10 years and I've never had one seperate.

</div></div>

Likewise - I've been installing tips for about 25 years now, and Mooris are consistently the best in terms of durability - both during and after installation/trimming. Can't say that for some of the more-recent makers of layered tips, though. One well-known brand has been notorious for layer breakdown over time, and others (especially the very-soft varieties) are prone to damage during trimming.

Still, I've never seen a failure where an apparently-good layered tip demonstrated a complete in-half separation. You must have done something really bad during the installation/trim, or the tip was a very-poor-quality imitation.

SpiderMan

eightnine
03-28-2011, 02:19 PM
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KalboKev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I've tried the laminated ones, seem to "separate" too much for my liking? Once is too much as I see it???? Maybe it's the humidity here, or maybe they are old??? Or a combination??
Most Pinoy's (like Efren normally) takes a standard Elk-Master and "compresses" it in a vice between a couple coins for a half hour or so, MAKE it hard. No money when you're young, make it work. Still works "when" you have money, "used to it", why change??????
With that said, I prefer a Brunswick Blue Diamond tip and Green Triangle chalk.
</div></div>
I have used some Pinoy's and have had mixed experience. I switched to Moori's and haven't had many problems. I think it might depend a bit on playing style too. A finesse player is less likely to have problems IMO.

cushioncrawler
03-28-2011, 03:41 PM
My 9mm and 10mm Triumphs are one layer, but the leathers all end up kumming off in time leaving the bakelite backing stuck there ok.
So far my 11mm Triumphs are taking the beatings ok.
mac.

Fran Crimi
03-28-2011, 07:08 PM
I just had a new Kamui medium put on my cue at Danny Barouty's recommendation and so far after a week I'm really liking the tip.I'd been playing with Mooris for years and thought I'd try something new. The Kamuis are supposed to last a very long time --- so I've heard. We'll see.

KalboKev
03-29-2011, 05:34 AM
All I can say is that I've had laminated tips applied by cue makers here, with a lath. as well as doing it myself. Every laminated tip I've tried has failed. Never seen an Elk Master or Blue Diamond fail--as long as some one "sort of" glued it on? . I'll take a page out of my Pinoy brethen's playbook. Keep it simple. Seen it TOOOO many times first hand here!!! When in Rome....Seems to work OK for the locals here in Philippines.....Pretty good billiards record per capita vs the World, I'm thinking????
Efren "still" uses an "Elk Master" for goodness sake, "compressed" as it is.

Bambu
03-29-2011, 05:54 AM
I tried one of those Kamui tips too, black soft. It grabbed the ball too much for me, almost felt like a masse cue. I hope you like it Fran, everybody else seems to. I prefer the moori medium also. But a tiger everest feels very close, so I have been using those.

Kev, maybe you just had a bad tip on there. A good laminated tip should not peel off in layers like that. (Sounds like a moori knockoff tip.)

Fran Crimi
03-29-2011, 01:48 PM
I don't know about the Blue Diamond, but don't you find that the Elk Masters wear down awfully fast? I used the Elks for awhile back when I heard Efren was using them but I found that the tip hardened really fast and seemed to lose it's spring. I can't remember after how long but I think it was only after a month or two.

SpiderMan
03-29-2011, 02:32 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fran Crimi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know about the Blue Diamond, but don't you find that the Elk Masters wear down awfully fast? I used the Elks for awhile back when I heard Efren was using them but I found that the tip hardened really fast and seemed to lose it's spring. I can't remember after how long but I think it was only after a month or two. </div></div>

At one time (back when the earth was still cooling), Blue Diamond was a similar/cheaper substitute for Elk Master. Blue Diamonds wound up on a lot of bar cues, and Elk Masters on play cues for folks who preferred soft-tip confidence over durability.

Recently (past 10 or 15 years, give or take a few), Elk Masters have also changed. The most recent box of Elk Master tips I have is drastically different from the ones sold years ago (I keep a partial box of old stock around for comparison). New ones are thicker (less initial compression?) much darker in color, and the color comes off on your fingers when handling them. Also, they seem much more likely to come apart when trimming. I don't think it's me ... I feel I've gotten much more adept at the trimming operation over the years.

The "less initial compression" characteristic may account for your noticing a rapid change (hardening) in the feel of modern Elk Masters.

SpiderMan

SpiderMan
03-29-2011, 02:47 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My 9mm and 10mm Triumphs are one layer, but the leathers all end up kumming off in time leaving the bakelite backing stuck there ok.
So far my 11mm Triumphs are taking the beatings ok.
mac. </div></div>

Triumphs have always had that problem. The red disc is attached to the tip with some sort of contact cement that isn't up to the task.

If you agressively polish the sidewalls in your lathe, and a little too much heat softens the cement, you can sometimes twist the tip loose from the disc with your fingers. Possibly some of the "solvents" applied by tip mechanics (magic marker, super glue) exacerbate the problem.

Smaller diameters mean less contact area, so naturally they are more fragile.

SpiderMan

Sid_Vicious
03-29-2011, 02:51 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KalboKev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All I can say is that I've had laminated tips applied by cue makers here, with a lath. as well as doing it myself. Every laminated tip I've tried has failed. Never seen an Elk Master or Blue Diamond fail--as long as some one "sort of" glued it on? . I'll take a page out of my Pinoy brethen's playbook. Keep it simple. Seen it TOOOO many times first hand here!!! When in Rome....Seems to work OK for the locals here in Philippines.....Pretty good billiards record per capita vs the World, I'm thinking????
Efren "still" uses an "Elk Master" for goodness sake, "compressed" as it is. </div></div>

MHO, you weren't getting REAL Moori, or your tip installers suck for installing the Moori tips, or any layered tips. I've had bogus Moori tips on new cues advertising the tip as a Moori, and they delaminated many times. Siderman can attest to the fact that upon miscroscope inspection of the bad tip, they were sometimes a cheap knock off of a Moori. I'd bet you $100 to 1 that if you were here in Dallas, and had Spiderman install you real Moori, it wouldn't fail or separate a layer on you. Something else is wrong besides the Moori, assuming that it really is a moori you had bad luck with.

Where did you get these Moori tips anyway? sid

cushioncrawler
03-29-2011, 02:58 PM
Yes, when they kum off, ie in a week or a month, the cement iz still sticky. Obviously a low grade sort of cement.
If i want, i just sand the 2 sticky surfaces and uze some 5 minute araldite to stick the leather back on.

At one stage i woz uzing 2 layers of red (bakelite or melamine??) backing. Mainly koz i dont hav a ferrule on that cue. But the small tips get such a hiding that the red layers sort of split az well.

The whole problem woz worse for me koz mostly i hold my cues such that the same bit of tip kums in kontakt with the qball every time i uze side or skrew.
mac.

cushioncrawler
03-29-2011, 03:08 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fran Crimi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know about the Blue Diamond, but don't you find that the Elk Masters wear down awfully fast? I used the Elks for awhile back when I heard Efren was using them but I found that the tip hardened really fast and seemed to lose it's spring. I can't remember after how long but I think it was only after a month or two.</div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SpiderMan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">At one time (back when the earth was still cooling), Blue Diamond was a similar/cheaper substitute for Elk Master. Blue Diamonds wound up on a lot of bar cues, and Elk Masters on play cues for folks who preferred soft-tip confidence over durability. Recently (past 10 or 15 years, give or take a few), Elk Masters have also changed. The most recent box of Elk Master tips I have is drastically different from the ones sold years ago (I keep a partial box of old stock around for comparison). New ones are thicker (less initial compression?) much darker in color, and the color comes off on your fingers when handling them. Also, they seem much more likely to come apart when trimming. I don't think it's me ... I feel I've gotten much more adept at the trimming operation over the years. The "less initial compression" characteristic may account for your noticing a rapid change (hardening) in the feel of modern Elk Masters.SpiderMan</div></div>I hav been uzing Diamonds, they are i think a substitute for Blue Diamonds, which are a substitute for Elks.
Anyhow Diamonds are i think $5 for a blister pack of 6.
I like hard tips but Diamonds are sort of too hard before u even hit one ball.
The (brown, one layer) Triumphs are sort of too soft when u first put them on, and soon they too get too hard too. (Thats 4 toos in one sentance, new record).
mac.

Fran Crimi
03-29-2011, 03:08 PM
Bambu, I know what you mean about the Kamui. It has a much softer feel than my Moori medium did and for the first couple of days I was afraid I wasn't going to like it --- but after some practice, I do like it. I think I'll like it even more as it breaks-in. I was getting tired of the Mooris wearing out so soon.

Bambu
03-30-2011, 07:39 AM
Hmm. Now you got me thinking I should have given my kamui some time to break in. I only used it twice, and was afraid it would grab even more if I broke it in completely. Anyway Fran, good luck with it.... maybe I will try again sometime.

gabeski
03-30-2011, 11:09 AM
I have been using the Kamui Black super soft for about 6 months, and I love it. Haven't had to do to much to it, holds chaulk well and can get a lot on cueball.

bluey2king
03-30-2011, 12:01 PM
I use Moori med tip going on two years now still a Great Hit!!

LWW
04-04-2011, 03:49 AM
To throw in my 2 cents ... for the money you can't beat a Triangle. I use a Talisman currently.