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View Full Version : Quantam Leap - Pool Related



socrates
09-11-2002, 06:19 PM
You can observe a lot just by watching. - Yogi Bera

Have been working really hard on my game for the past six months and am starting to see some huge breakthoughs after being stagnant. Have been charting my progress using Alan Hopkins Q-Skill and my own Q-skill version, I am developing and testing, specifically for nine-ball.

My observation in my play was that I was thinking of my position options only in terms of draw or follow. I was not even considering the horizontal center axis of the cue ball in thinking through my options. After discovering this tendancy I started considering draw - center and follow in planning my position routes. In effect this brings an additional 33% to the choices for my position play. My play has steadily improved since this observation.

My question is to hear from others who would be willing to share observations they have had in there game that resuled in a notable leap in their play.

Karatemom
09-11-2002, 06:51 PM
I realize that this may sound very simple to the advanced players of the board, however, this is ground-breaking for my game, LOL.

Chris had me working on using english this last weekend. I probably worked on approximately 10 different shots using specific englishes. Most of my game until this point was based on using high and low ball.

I worked on these english throw shots for about 4 hours, and then lo and behold, things slowly started to click, LOL. The proof came Monday night. I made this incredible shot, or at least it was incredible for me to make it /ccboard/images/icons/laugh.gif: START(
%HY3Z0%ID2H8%PU2Z1%QX2W9%RR1B5%SI0Z8%TE1O0%UD9P3%V H5[2%Wr3Z7
%XZ1Z0%YI1Z8%ZQ4C4%[Q9D3%\X4Y7%eA5b6
)END
I hope I did that right, sorry if I didn't. Anyway, the 8 went in the corner, and I got right on the 9. A perfect out. I don't do those very often, so I was pretty proud of myself.

So I would definitely say that all the help Chris gave me just in a 2 day time period has definitely improved my game.

Heide ~ took 1st place due to that shot

Tom_In_Cincy
09-11-2002, 07:01 PM
My biggest leap was incorporating a practice routine on a regular basis. It all started because I kept missing cut shot when using left or right english.. I was experimenting with my aim for these shots and discovered that I was not compensating enough for squirt (at the time, I did not realize how important that was). My pool buddy told me to just stay closer to center.. and not use so much english. This was an eye opener for me.. I notice that I was still missing, but not by as much as before.. I kept practicing and started to obtain a feel for the correct amount of compensation for these shots. I made them with a lot more frequency than I had ever had. My confidence increased and that meant a lot.

This was back in 1981 and I haven't had a revelation quite like that since..

Barbara
09-11-2002, 07:06 PM
Going 2-and-out has helped me a bunch!!! /ccboard/images/icons/laugh.gif!

Okay, not really points-wise, so let me explain a little.

I co-run a Regional Tour - NEWT. I also play in the tournaments I help run. I also have to stay 'til the end for these tournaments because I have to give the money out, write the articles, yadda, yadda, yadda.

The NEWT tour is blessed by the fact that Karen Corr, Julie Kelly, Dawn Hopkins (our original founder), Kim Shaw, and a host of other WPBA pros like to play along with us at our various State Championships and regular Qualifying tournies.

When I go 2-and-out, I am forced to watch some of the most aggressive and out-and-out jam-up pool I have ever seen. And it made me study patterns that the Pros play. And I'm talking some of the top Pros here. But I've also watched what some of the top Semi-Pros do and use against the Pros and WOW!!

Sometimes, you have to keep your cue in the case and just watch. You can answer a lot of your own questions if you know what you're watching for.

Barbara~~~not yet ready to join the ranks of the "Pool Police"...

heater451
09-11-2002, 07:19 PM
I noticed that, over the last 6 months or so, that it was getting harder for me to get position off rails, when I used to 'just do it'.

Upon observation, I noticed that I was moving further away from the side english, and more towards full follow or draw, and trying to force movement with the carom off the OB. In other words, I pretty much lost all the benefits of hitting with side.

Since I found the weakness, I've been practicing/using more 'dead side' w/o draw or follow, and letting the spin give me the angle, and many times distance, that I want/need.


=======================

Fred Agnir
09-12-2002, 06:34 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: socrates:</font><hr> Have been charting my progress using Alan Hopkins Q-Skill and my own Q-skill version, I am developing and testing, specifically for nine-ball. <hr></blockquote>

Hopkins came up with Olympic 9-ball, a Q-skill of sorts for...err.. 9-ball.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>My observation in my play was that I was thinking of my position options only in terms of draw or follow. I was not even considering the horizontal center axis of the cue ball in thinking through my options. After discovering this tendancy I started considering draw - center and follow in planning my position routes.<hr></blockquote>
Good observation. I think you're not alone. Bear in mind that if you stay on the horizontal, even if you use english, anything less than stun speed (stop shot speed) will get you an amount of natural follow.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>My question is to hear from others who would be willing to share observations they have had in there game that resuled in a notable leap in their play.<hr></blockquote>
For me, it was the discovery of squirt. Before that, I was (like 99% of all amateur players) all about "throw." Every shot with english, I'd be thinking about "throw." Now I know that "throw" is nothing, not even a consideration, with the understanding of "squirt."

Fred

bluewolf
09-12-2002, 06:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: socrates:</font><hr> You can observe a lot just by watching. - Yogi Bera

Have been working really hard on my game for the past six months and am starting to see some huge breakthoughs after being stagnant. Have been charting my progress using Alan Hopkins Q-Skill and my own Q-skill version, I am developing and testing, specifically for nine-ball.

My observation in my play was that I was thinking of my position options only in terms of draw or follow. I was not even considering the horizontal center axis of the cue ball in thinking through my options. After discovering this tendancy I started considering draw - center and follow in planning my position routes. In effect this brings an additional 33% to the choices for my position play. My play has steadily improved since this observation.

My question is to hear from others who would be willing to share observations they have had in there game that resuled in a notable leap in their play.



<hr></blockquote>

coming from a beginner and just learning position, i have a little drill.i set up three easy shots.one object ball at the left end pocket,one at the right corner pocket and the third at the left side. i set the cb to get in the ob in the right corner,thinking how to get into position for the right corner pocket, which is top and left.then the ball is on the rail for the left ob.i hit left draw as a ball stopper and to get the cb to float out for better position on the side pocket ob.

this is just in the beginning to get me thinking about position,english use of rails. it is enough for now as a 2.later on i can try harder stuff when my skills are better.

bw

Fred Agnir
09-12-2002, 07:20 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: bluewolf:</font><hr> this is just in the beginning to get me thinking about position,english use of rails. it is enough for now as a 2.later on i can try harder stuff when my skills are better.<hr></blockquote>
I'm a big advocate on using english, and gobs of it, when your skills improve. IMO, the tendency to stay closer to center might result in a player's skill level not improving after a while.

That being said, if I could do it all over again, I would forego the use of english until I felt comfortable with my shotmaking without any english. It's not a bad idea for any advanced player to practice some sessions without the use of english.

Then I'd when I felt ready for it, I'd do the english in steps, starting with squirt, then followed by swerve.

Fred

Jay M
09-12-2002, 10:13 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: socrates:</font><hr>
My question is to hear from others who would be willing to share observations they have had in there game that resuled in a notable leap in their play.
<hr></blockquote>

There were several "revelations" I've had over the years that have improved individual facets of my game.

1) Draw - I used to be a 90% draw shot artist back in the mid 80's. What I mean is that I used draw on nearly everything. At one point it was more comfortable for me to draw the cue 4 rails for position than to just follow up and down the table. Then I discovered the rest of the cue ball and now I only draw if there is no other choice. It's just too hard to get pinpoint accuracy with draw.

2) Jump shots - about the same time that I realized there was more to the cue than just draw, I also learned the real way to jump. While I was practicing jumps one day, I realized that english is all a matter of perspective. If you are looking down at the cue ball, center english is the center of the cue ball SIGHTING down the cue. The higher you jack the cue up, the higher the center point on the ball becomes. From there, you add spin just like you normally would, move the cue tip off the new centerpoint. This led to a huge jump in my ability to get out of safeties and allowing me to control the cue after a jump. Just having a ball in the way was no longer good enough to keep me from making the shots and getting leaves, now my opponents had to put me within a ball's distance of the blocking ball.

3) Billiards - about 2 years ago I started playing billiards with an "A+" 3 cushion player who took the time to show me some of the common shots. I love the game. In fact, for about 6 or 7 months, I stopped playing anything except billiards. Now, how did that help with my 9 ball game? I have been told I "Kick like a phillipino" and that I am one of the better safety players in the area. It's all a result of my learning billiards. Now I am not just shooting to hit a ball, but actually playing shots or safes from 2, 3 or 4 rails out with confidence. Last night this came up, I was playing against Pat Howey (great guy btw). I made a three rail kick (4 if you count the short rail) to make the 7, which was just off the second diamond on the side rail, and get a leave on the 8--winning the game among a lot of "golf claps" and cue pounding.

One thing I've noticed is that my game will periodically fall apart when I am making one of these leaps. I'll have a couple of days where I just can't make a ball and then all of a sudden *poof* my game all comes together again and I am a ball or two better than I was when it fell apart. So when your game isn't working right, don't get angry or disgusted, just keep shooting knowing that you will be better than ever when it comes back together.

Jay M

09-12-2002, 12:25 PM
I like your idea of exploring all the various contact points on the cue-ball.

Here is my breakthrough:

I reached a new plateu in my game when I made a concious effort to "slow down" and really analyze the game. I made concious efforts to do the following every time: 1)make all decisions standing up, 2)look at least 3 balls ahead, 3)full concentration when down on the shot, 4)be loose and relaxed, and 5)shoot with confidence.

I have had great success on occasion shooting "within myself", getting into a wonderful "rythm", and shooting on "autopilot". However, I have found that I cannot always trust myself to be in this "state" all the time. Instead, I try and be more methodical, even though at times it actually hurts my game. The ultimate key of course, is to play the same way each and every time. Consistancy and sound foundamentals are crucial.

Regards,

Doug

09-12-2002, 12:27 PM
Like they say Jay....

"draw for show, follow for dough".

Regards,

Doug

Amanda
09-12-2002, 01:13 PM
I guess in a way I was lucky with my pool game in that I had a very natural stance and stroke to begin with. I play alot of other sports quite well.
I started in the APA as 3 like all other women, I bounced back and forth from a 5 to a 6 after my first week, settling into a 6 by the end of that session and eventually became a 7.
Granted I had various people point one or two little things out that were helpful, I would have to say just watching some of the top players in the area play was the biggest help aside from playing 5 to 6 days a week.
There is an open 9 ball tournament here I play in most weeks, we have alot of very accomplished players in it, I've learned so much just by watching them.
Back in April I had an opportunity to go the Pool School in Dallas TX with Randy Gottlicher. That has become a fantastic resource for me. I spent 3 full days there getting instruction on things that never even occured to me, or things I had asked around about that no one really knew how to answer.
I guess since my skill level rose to fast, the thing I work on most now is the mental game. Staying cool when I make stupid mistakes or getting annihlated. Taking my time and keeping an even pace, looking at the table and exploring all my options. I've found I can beat the better shot maker if I play the smarter game often times.
I don't chart or otherwise keep written record of my progress, I hit my goal of being an APA 7, I have my BCA average to compare to the rest of my league, and play in tournaments that I know I am finishing better and better in all the time. Thats the mark of my improvements.
Sheesh I never knew there so much involved in this game but am so glad I decided to take up the sport, just wish I would have done so much earlier in life.

09-12-2002, 01:24 PM

Amanda
09-12-2002, 01:31 PM
I was very impressed with their classes there. And was even more impressed to find out Gerta and Alison were there the weekend before I went. If you want to find out more about them they have a webpage at http://www.poolschool.com/ and I would be happy to to tell you more about it if you want.
Amanda

SPetty
09-12-2002, 02:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Amanda:</font><hr> And was even more impressed to find out Gerta and Alison were there the weekend before I went. <hr></blockquote>Um, Gerda, Allison and SPetty!

SPetty~~~Can drop names with the best of 'em! /ccboard/images/icons/laugh.gif

HOWARD
09-12-2002, 05:32 PM
CLOSES THING I HAVE - IS THAT WHEN I WAS YOUNG AND STARTED PLAYING - MANY YEARS AGO - YOU START TRYING TO BE COMFORTABLE WITH CUE IN YOUR HAND, THE BRIDGE MAKING IT STEADY, THE AIM, THE FEEL ETC. AS YOU GO LONG YOU MASTER THIS BIT AND THAT BIT. AND THEN SOMEONE MENTIONS SHAPE TO YOU. SO THAT NOW YOU ARE AIMING -ATLEAST IN MY CASE AND THEN JUDGING WHERE TO PUT THE CUE BALL, WHAT SPEED, WHAT ANGLE ETC. I LEFT THE GAME FOR QUITE A FEW YEARS AND WHEN I CAME BACK I STARTED AGAIN AND I GUESS YOU COULD SAY MY EPITHANY WAS TO REVERSE THE SHAPE AND AIM THOUGHT. THIS ALLOWED ME TO BECOME MORE CONSISTANT. I.E. FIND OUT WHERE I WANTED TO PLACE THE CUE BALL AND THEN TAKE AIM AND SECURE THE SHOT ... HOWARD

Rod
09-12-2002, 08:19 PM
Quote Heide, Heide ~ took 1st place due to that shot

Get outa town!!! ha ha ha.
Heide I saw your post earlier but forgot where. Congratulations and a fine shot I might add for the cheese. You should be proud of yourself. Learning english takes time but it sure adds a new demension to the game. It is fairly predictable also if the speed of stroke is correct. Aiming is the tough part. If all it took was a couple of days to gain more insight thats great. It should make aiming without english a lot easier. I have the feeling Chris is experimenting to find better ways to teach you aiming, not to mention of course different routes for position. I'll use your same ball position and set up another route but in this case I'll put a 10 ball as the last ball and so you can't draw the ball. Have Chris show you that one if he has not allready. In some simple forms of this it is an easy way to get whitey around the table.

START(
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%Wr3Z7%XZ1Z0%Yd2[2%Zs1G5%[l1D1%\X4Y7%eC2`7
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Karatemom
09-12-2002, 09:41 PM
Thank you, Rod. I can still picture that last 9 ball going in /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif. Chris has been showing me the throw shots because I was still analyzing everything and didn't realize it. He is in the process of teaching me to "feel" the angle instead of thinking about where to hit the ob.

According to Chris, he uses two types of aiming systems. One being point of contact, and the other being point of angle. Chris says that he uses the angle system when shooting in the blind, or not able to see the point of contact, which are the shots he had me work on last weekend. Since I couldn't consistently find the point of contact on the ob, he thought the angle system might work better. Well, I believe it did. I don't get much time to practice but maybe 2 days a week, but he definitely makes sure that I work hard those 2 days, LOL.

Thank you for the kudos!

Heide ~ this weekend's agenda: high right and high left, LOL

Rod
09-12-2002, 10:26 PM
Steve,
I'm sure there must have been several things but one thing does come to mind. Playing a lot of 14-1 early on really improved my game. Just the suttle moves and learning what to expect when I broke out a cluster and a back up if possible if I figured a little wrong. Position took on a completely new meaning compared to 9 ball, I found just having an easy shot was not the answer. The strategy alone worked wonders. Along with that in a mechanical sense was precise english points, or no english, along with speed and pace of stroke to position the cue ball.

Going along with your observation, I use every millimeter of the cueball out to the extreme if necessary. Right now I could get a noticable leap in my game if I just played more often!