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llotter
03-30-2011, 06:36 PM
This is really good and so familiar to readers here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAyCdfOXvec

sack316
03-30-2011, 09:46 PM
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Sack

Qtec
03-31-2011, 01:40 AM
What a load of crap.

Q

LWW
03-31-2011, 04:16 AM
Yes, it was ... and that's what makes your reaction so funny.

This video is merely a mirror of myself and others trying to have a discussion with you and the rest of the cabal.

Qtec
03-31-2011, 04:33 AM
The video is a mirror of how YOU think, not me.

<span style='font-size: 17pt'>"I don't care, Obama is awesome."</span>

.....lol. Give me a break..

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>YOU are the one [ and the RW press] who call the POTUS the anointed one, the messiah and our Dear Leader..etc
</span>

YOU and the peanut gallery, not me or G or St or Sofla or wolf ....not us.



Q

LWW
03-31-2011, 04:45 AM
"A LIGHT WILL SHINE THROUGH THAT WINDOW, A BEAM OF LIGHT WILL COME DOWN UPON YOU, YOU WILL EXPERIENCE AN EPIPHANY ... AND YOU WILL SUDDENLY REALIZE THAT YOU MUST GO TO THE POLLS AND VOTE FOR OBAMA" - BARACK OBAMA LEBANON, NEW HAMPSHIRE.
JANUARY 7, 2008.

LWW
03-31-2011, 04:48 AM
"Obama is, of course, greater than Jesus."

-- Politiken (Danish newspaper)

LWW
03-31-2011, 04:49 AM
"No one saw him coming, and Christians believe God comes at us from strange angles and places we don't expect, like Jesus being born in a manger."

--Lawrence Carter

LWW
03-31-2011, 04:51 AM
“I would characterize the Senate race as being a race where Obama was, let’s say, blessed and highly favored. That’s not routine. There’s something else going on. I think that Obama, his election to the Senate, was divinely ordered. . . . I know that that was God’s plan."

-- Bill Rush

LWW
03-31-2011, 04:52 AM
"This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal."

-- Barack Obama

LWW
03-31-2011, 04:53 AM
"Does it not feel as if some special hand is guiding Obama on his journey, I mean, as he has said, the utter improbability of it all?"

-- Daily Kos

LWW
03-31-2011, 04:54 AM
"He communicates God-like energy..."

-- Steve Davis (Charleston, SC)

LWW
03-31-2011, 04:55 AM
"This is bigger than Kennedy. . . . This is the New Testament." | "I felt this thrill going up my leg. I mean, I don't have that too often. No, seriously. It's a dramatic event."

-- Chris Matthews

LWW
03-31-2011, 04:56 AM
http://www.ratzingerfanclub.com/Obama/godofallthings.jpg

LWW
03-31-2011, 04:57 AM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_WkA8USJcfPw/SRfcD0D9EEI/AAAAAAAAAPk/st4bPpwdVvs/s400/Obamacampaignposter1.jpg

LWW
03-31-2011, 04:57 AM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3008/2619205229_cc2d84e9c6.jpg

LWW
03-31-2011, 04:58 AM
Any other foolish myths you'd like slain?

Qtec
03-31-2011, 05:17 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Obama is, of course, greater than Jesus."

-- Politiken (Danish newspaper)




</div></div>

LOL


Danish??????????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal."

-- Barack Obama </div></div>

Why not the WHOLE quote and not a cut and paste job?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The journey will be difficult. The road will be long. I face this challenge with profound humility, and knowledge of my own limitations. But I also face it with limitless faith in the capacity of the American people. Because if we are willing to work for it, and fight for it, and believe in it, then I am absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal;<span style="color: #990000"> which is obviously a comment on Global Warming and the rise in sea level..</span> this was the moment when we ended a war and secured our nation and restored our image as the last, best hope on Earth. This was the moment - this was the time - when we came together to remake this great nation so that it may always reflect our very best selves, and our highest ideals. Thank you, God Bless you, and may God Bless the United States of America. </div></div>


WTF is -Lawrence Carter?????????????????????

I trashed your source and the content, no comment?


Q

LWW
03-31-2011, 06:14 AM
No, actually you paid homage to your messiah and defended with the same illogic that all cult members use ... but thanks for trying.

LWW
03-31-2011, 06:16 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is really good and so familiar to readers here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAyCdfOXvec </div></div>

You will learn, the cabal does not like mirrors.

Qtec
03-31-2011, 06:44 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, actually you paid homage to your messiah and defended with the same illogic that all cult members use ... but thanks for trying. </div></div>

Opinion.

Q

Qtec
03-31-2011, 06:45 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You will learn, the cabal does not like mirrors.
</div></div>

Opinion.

Q

Gayle in MD
03-31-2011, 07:08 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is really good and so familiar to readers here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAyCdfOXvec </div></div>

One of the most dishonest attempts at spreading around Republican Propaganda, Ive ever seen.

Actually, it's a total joke!

I love the way you righties like to completely overlook all the proof that the Bush Administration, cherry picked, to fit intelligence to their policy, numerous fact check sites, proving their lies, including clips of their lies coming out of their mouths, which are still available, all over the internet!

Dozens upon dozens of books, written by respected journalists, the fake British Memo, created during the time Michael Ledeen just happened to be in Italy, the links between Michael Ledeen and the thugs who broke into the Niger Embassy in Italy, proven lies about the aluminumn tubes, the statements directly from Iraqi WMD specialists, numerous CIA operatives, resigning over the lies the Administration forced into the intel, Richard Clarke, clearly telling the story of how Bush rejected his findings, jabbing him in the chest, telling himn to go back and "Find" the intel, the administratioon wanted, you righties are truly a joke!



G.

Qtec
03-31-2011, 07:11 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> it's a total joke! </div></div>

Correct.

Q

pooltchr
03-31-2011, 09:27 AM
And we love the way you lefties defend Obama for doing the very same things you spent years criticizing Bush for doing!

Steve

llotter
03-31-2011, 09:57 AM
it is indeed interesting that the 'intellectuals' are so damn gullible and how vested they become in false theories. Disliking reality, these mostly well intended people fabricate one of their own and from then on, have to continuously rationalize the disconnect between the real world and the fake world of the Left.

there are few events that illustrate this conflict more than The Moron's actions in Libya currently, littered with contradiction and his supporters convoluted explanations.

Soflasnapper
03-31-2011, 11:01 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And we love the way you lefties defend Obama for doing the very same things you spent years criticizing Bush for doing!

Steve </div></div>

It can equally be said it is ironic how the right criticize Obama for what they spent years praising and justifying as to Bush's actions, with some STILL supporting the correctness of that effort (even if somewhat critical of methods).

Neither point is exactly true, btw. These are superficially comparable, of course, but only superficially. To ignore the very significant differences is the only way to make that comparison seem apt. Putting it plainly, any Bush war supporter who hasn't changed to a Bush war critic, not just on its execution but on its actual merits/demerits, has no credible standing to criticize this situation.

In fact, the more reasonable sounding cartoon guy makes any number of tendentious claims that are nearly as ridiculous as the cartoon woman, who is invidiously scripted to use only childish talking points. (His comparable childish talking points may seem correct because her responses are robotic and mainly non-responsive.) She's the type of person that occasionally the Rush Limbaugh program allows on their air, precisely because they cannot articulate a credible argument. Not that one doesn't exist but that they don't know what it is or how to make it correctly, and their poor presentation makes their side look like it has no credible defense.

If you think anything is proven about the underlying questions by having the very weakest possible defense stand in for one side of the question, you'd be both wrong and probably very unsure that your position is right, as shown by refusing to engage the better or best defense.

Soflasnapper
03-31-2011, 11:07 AM
It's cute to cite the many naive people who characterized Obama as someone on a mission from God, but it should be noted that this kind of praise was also heaped upon Bush back in the day.

Many who supported his (actual and major) wars of choice thought that Providence had given Bush the odd SCOTUS selection 'victory' to be sure God's will would be done. Bush was also shown in hagiographic visuals, including faux halo visuals.

So it seems a general weakness of mind among the American people, and nothing particularly weak minded only as to Obama. This should be readily acknowledged as true by anyone who was paying attention, and it would be entirely easy to look up all these references to make the Bush supporters appear irrationally reverent towards their guy.

sack316
03-31-2011, 01:35 PM
Wow, reading through some various threads (along with this one included) I'd say that the CCB should have had a writing credit at the end of that video or something.

Someone should make one of those videos, and just copy/paste exchanges from this board for the animation dialog... and I'd bet ya it wouldn't be too much different!

Sack

llotter
03-31-2011, 01:45 PM
Yes, Sack, I think you are exactly right there. That would make a great video...you know like the one with Hitler in his bunker.

llotter
03-31-2011, 01:45 PM
Yes, Sack, I think you are exactly right there. That would make a great video...you know like the one with Hitler in his bunker.

pooltchr
03-31-2011, 02:27 PM
Sack,
Did you see the one on AZ with Patrick Johnson and John Barton? I laughed so hard tears came to my eyes!

Steve

sack316
03-31-2011, 02:43 PM
nah I don't frequent AZ

Sack

pooltchr
03-31-2011, 02:56 PM
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/11539766/john-barton-meets-professor-johnson

A bit of fun poking at two folks on opposite sides of the CTE controversy. It's even funnier if you know either of the two gentlemen!

Steve

Under
03-31-2011, 03:24 PM
It was kind of restrained compared to the gentleman's normal interactions.

Slide Rule

LWW
03-31-2011, 04:09 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In fact, the more reasonable sounding cartoon guy makes any number of tendentious claims that are nearly as ridiculous as the cartoon woman</div></div>

Give us some examples.

sack316
03-31-2011, 06:42 PM
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Sack

Gayle in MD
04-01-2011, 04:53 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And we love the way you lefties defend Obama for doing the very same things you spent years criticizing Bush for doing!

Steve </div></div>

It can equally be said it is ironic how the right criticize Obama for what they spent years praising and justifying as to Bush's actions, with some STILL supporting the correctness of that effort (even if somewhat critical of methods).

Neither point is exactly true, btw. These are superficially comparable, of course, but only superficially. To ignore the very significant differences is the only way to make that comparison seem apt. Putting it plainly, any Bush war supporter who hasn't changed to a Bush war critic, not just on its execution but on its actual merits/demerits, has no credible standing to criticize this situation.

In fact, the more reasonable sounding cartoon guy makes any number of tendentious claims that are nearly as ridiculous as the cartoon woman, who is invidiously scripted to use only childish talking points. (His comparable childish talking points may seem correct because her responses are robotic and mainly non-responsive.) She's the type of person that occasionally the Rush Limbaugh program allows on their air, precisely because they cannot articulate a credible argument. Not that one doesn't exist but that they don't know what it is or how to make it correctly, and their poor presentation makes their side look like it has no credible defense.

If you think anything is proven about the underlying questions by having the very weakest possible defense stand in for one side of the question, you'd be both wrong and probably very unsure that your position is right, as shown by refusing to engage the better or best defense.





</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">any Bush war supporter who hasn't changed to a Bush war critic, not just on its execution but on its actual merits/demerits, has no credible standing to criticize this situation.

</div></div>


That would include every rightie on this forum....each of whom have this little problem of thinking they have won a discussion, when they have actually had their *** handed to them....

Here is an excellent example of their debating skills. Our two most ignorant stalkers...having a serious debate...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJC0FfqRkm4

pooltchr
04-01-2011, 06:16 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Here is an excellent example of their debating skills. Our two most ignorant stalkers...having a serious debate...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJC0FfqRkm4 </div></div>

An excellent example of your inability to add anything of substance to the conversation in an adult manner.

I'm sure the conversation in that video made perfect sense to you.

Steve

Soflasnapper
04-01-2011, 09:24 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In fact, the more reasonable sounding cartoon guy makes any number of tendentious claims that are nearly as ridiculous as the cartoon woman</div></div>

Give us some examples. </div></div>

It starts right away with 'couldn't the same be said of Libya?'

(Sure, but it's a non-sequitur point that means nothing. The Iraq war was sold on the claim of Saddam's having WMD, which would eventually be used against us either by him or through a transfer to extremists. (And if we waited for the final proof, it might just be a mushroom cloud of a nuclear explosion in this country.) It would only be a telling point against supporting the Libya war if those claims were made to make the case for that war, and of course they were not. Generally, when countries really have WMD, we don't attack them ever.

The rest of the analogies the man tries to draw are likewise inapt as comparisons of the two situations. Khadaffi ceased his WMD programs back a few years ago? Yes, at least allegedly, but again, it's irrelevant as to the reasons for this action.

The guy says Obama 'promised' he'd always negotiate in such situations, and instead took so little time to decide to bomb that the guy's labrador retriever takes more time to decide where to lay down? That's false, risibly false, on both counts.

Obama is not 'pre-empting' something that hasn't yet occurred on speculation. Khadaffi was in the middle of slaughtering his people, credibly threatened a continuation of a blood bath in the last city stronghold of the resistance, and had marched his army to its gates.

The script doesn't allow her to answer the charge correctly to deny it, and instead she alibis that sometimes a false claim is just a mistake or human error and not a lie. The man then proposes the same thing is true for Bush's claims of WMD-- an innocent error, not a lie. Theoretically possible, but proven false by many things.

Does it bother her that instead of being the leader of the free world, Obama is now the stooge of the Arab League and the UN? Stupidly false.

Everything the guy says is either false, or if true, irrelevant, because the difference of degree makes hash of the comparison being drawn.

Everything the man says

LWW
04-01-2011, 10:58 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(Sure, but it's a non-sequitur point that means nothing. The Iraq war was sold on the claim of Saddam's having WMD, which would eventually be used against us either by him or through a transfer to extremists. (And if we waited for the final proof, it might just be a mushroom cloud of a nuclear explosion in this country.) </div></div>

1 - No it wasn't, or at least not by the Bush regime ... although the Clintonista did yap incessantly about it.

2 - If Saddam had no WMD then who gassed the Iranians?

3 - If Saddam had no WMD then who gassed the Kurds?

4 - If Saddam had no WMD then why did we find WMD's in Iraq?

5 - If Saddam had no WMD then why did the ISG find bio strains, illegal rockets, human testing labs, and declare Iraq to have been more dangerous than they had feared?

LWW
04-01-2011, 11:02 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[qIt would only be a telling point against supporting the Libya war if those claims were made to make the case for that war, and of course they were not. Generally, when countries really have WMD, we don't attack them ever.

The rest of the analogies the man tries to draw are likewise inapt as comparisons of the two situations. Khadaffi ceased his WMD programs back a few years ago? Yes, at least allegedly, but again, it's irrelevant as to the reasons for this action.</div></div>

Malarkey. The comment was made as a reply to the Obamatron's statement that Obama was acting against a brutal dictator. Now, could not the same sargumenyt have been made against Saddam? Of course it could ... and was. In fact, the moonbat crazy left used it to condemn Bush I for not removing Saddam from power.

LWW
04-01-2011, 11:04 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The guy says Obama 'promised' he'd always negotiate in such situations, and instead took so little time to decide to bomb that the guy's labrador retriever takes more time to decide where to lay down? That's false, risibly false, on both counts.</div></div>

Sarcastic for dramatic effect, I'll agree. That being said ... sans evidence on how long the man's dog took to decide, the statement has as much credibility as Obama's.

LWW
04-01-2011, 11:05 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Obama is not 'pre-empting' something that hasn't yet occurred on speculation. Khadaffi was in the middle of slaughtering his people, credibly threatened a continuation of a blood bath in the last city stronghold of the resistance, and had marched his army to its gates.</div></div>

As was, did, and had Saddam ... so your point was exactly what?

LWW
04-01-2011, 11:07 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The script doesn't allow her to answer the charge correctly to deny it, and instead she alibis that sometimes a false claim is just a mistake or human error and not a lie. The man then proposes the same thing is true for Bush's claims of WMD-- an innocent error, not a lie. Theoretically possible, but proven false by many things. </div></div>

The script was obviously written to use absurdity to point out absurdity, IOW it was a condensation of the typical Obamatron arguments. Witness the cabal's inane excuses rendered here daily.

LWW
04-01-2011, 11:09 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does it bother her that instead of being the leader of the free world, Obama is now the stooge of the Arab League and the UN? Stupidly false.</div></div>

That is a matter of conjecture and not fact.

And, the claim is more accurate ... by a wide margin ... than the Obamatronic autoresponse replies that Bush was a tool of "BIG OIL" and "ISRAEL" that we have heard bleated ad nauseum.

LWW
04-01-2011, 11:11 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Everything the guy says is either false, or if true, irrelevant, because the difference of degree makes hash of the comparison being drawn.

Everything the man says </div></div>

Boiled down ... your arguments are simply that you won't believe it to be true because you don't want it to be true.

Gayle in MD
04-01-2011, 12:12 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In fact, the more reasonable sounding cartoon guy makes any number of tendentious claims that are nearly as ridiculous as the cartoon woman</div></div>

Give us some examples. </div></div>

It starts right away with 'couldn't the same be said of Libya?'

(Sure, but it's a non-sequitur point that means nothing. The Iraq war was sold on the claim of Saddam's having WMD, which would eventually be used against us either by him or through a transfer to extremists. (And if we waited for the final proof, it might just be a mushroom cloud of a nuclear explosion in this country.) It would only be a telling point against supporting the Libya war if those claims were made to make the case for that war, and of course they were not. Generally, when countries really have WMD, we don't attack them ever.

The rest of the analogies the man tries to draw are likewise inapt as comparisons of the two situations. Khadaffi ceased his WMD programs back a few years ago? Yes, at least allegedly, but again, it's irrelevant as to the reasons for this action.

The guy says Obama 'promised' he'd always negotiate in such situations, and instead took so little time to decide to bomb that the guy's labrador retriever takes more time to decide where to lay down? That's false, risibly false, on both counts.

Obama is not 'pre-empting' something that hasn't yet occurred on speculation. Khadaffi was in the middle of slaughtering his people, credibly threatened a continuation of a blood bath in the last city stronghold of the resistance, and had marched his army to its gates.

The script doesn't allow her to answer the charge correctly to deny it, and instead she alibis that sometimes a false claim is just a mistake or human error and not a lie. The man then proposes the same thing is true for Bush's claims of WMD-- an innocent error, not a lie. Theoretically possible, but proven false by many things.

Does it bother her that instead of being the leader of the free world, Obama is now the stooge of the Arab League and the UN? Stupidly false.

Everything the guy says is either false, or if true, irrelevant, because the difference of degree makes hash of the comparison being drawn.

Everything the man says

</div></div>

You are absolutly correct. In fact, as several have already stated, its a CROCK! Just the sort of irrational, fully disproven, RWBS that the Bushy Kool Aid drinkers have been spewing on this forum for a decade.

The fact is, there is no comparison, between the two. This president, doesn't lie us into wars. This president, doesn't divulge the names of covert agents, and then follow up by suspending the sentence of a convicted felon, Scooter Libby.

This president doesn't send his pawns to the basement of the Pentagon/CIA to cherry pick intelligence to fit to his pre determined war agenda, he didn't have one, he knew, his work was already laid out for him, to try to disengage honorably, out of two totally F-ed up wars, that Bush left in his wake, along with a collapsed economy, and years of neglected disfunctional government agencies.

The right on here will never even begin to own up to their own ignorance throughout the Bush administration.

One of the worst of them on here, throughout the record breaking borrowing, squandering, bilking and losing trqack of billions upon billions of dollars, which went on throughout the Bush Regime, stated over and over, that the huge Bush/Republican blank check deficits, didn't matter, and he said that throughout the Bush, economically disastrous presidency.
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif


Now, with a Democratic President, he's is ready to count every penny, LMAO!
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

I admire your excellent posts, and your sincere attempts to bring some rational, documented facts to this forum, but I'm afraid these fly-over radical RWers here are a waste of your time. As in, unable, AND unwilling, to practice critical thinking skills. I actually don't think they have any.

Just an accurate, easily provable, observation...on my part.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Soflasnapper
04-01-2011, 12:33 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(Sure, but it's a non-sequitur point that means nothing. The Iraq war was sold on the claim of Saddam's having WMD, which would eventually be used against us either by him or through a transfer to extremists. (And if we waited for the final proof, it might just be a mushroom cloud of a nuclear explosion in this country.) </div></div>

1 - No it wasn't, or at least not by the Bush regime ... although the Clintonista did yap incessantly about it.</div></div>

BS. I've never thought you a complete idiot until this last statement (unless you're now in your early 20s and were an adolescent back then not paying attention). Of COURSE that was their reason, which Paul Wolfowitz admitted became their official stated reason because that was the one thing they could all agree to. This claim on your part makes you seem a fool or a liar, sorry to say.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Wolfowitz: No, I think it happens to be correct. The truth is that for reasons that have a lot to do with the U.S. government bureaucracy we settled on the one issue that everyone could agree on which was weapons of mass destruction as the core reason, but — hold on one second –</div></div>

He went on to assert there were always THREE reasons (oh, wait, FOUR reasons, LOL), while admitting the 'core reason' was WMD. Which is why at least both Condy Rice and George W. Bush (and probably others) warned that waiting could cause the 'smoking gun' to be a mushroom cloud. (Note, this was fear-mongering beyond chemical or biological so-called WMD, ramped up to fear-mongering about nuclear weaponry.)

2 - If Saddam had no WMD then who gassed the Iranians?

Nobody said he NEVER had them; all admitted that he at one time did have them (although none that would cause nuclear mushroom clouds).

3 - If Saddam had no WMD then who gassed the Kurds?

Based on the signature of those toxins, that was done by the Iranians, not by Saddam, whose bio-chem weaponry didn't include those particular agents (whereas the Iranians' did).

4 - If Saddam had no WMD then why did we find WMD's in Iraq?

5 - If Saddam had no WMD then why did the ISG find bio strains, illegal rockets, human testing labs, and declare Iraq to have been more dangerous than they had feared?

These are incorrigible dead-ender positions-- congratulations!

They in no way substantiate the claims of tons of materiel, and actual battle-field capable weaponry, per SecState Powell's fantastic claims, nor would they have sufficed for a causus bellum claim.

pooltchr
04-01-2011, 02:08 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I admire your excellent posts, and your sincere attempts to bring some rational, documented facts to this forum,
</div></div>

What a suck-up. I guess since it appears woofie and hondo have abandoned you, it's time to start gathering up some new troops.

I hate to tell you, but SOFLA is probably able to see right through you....as are the rest of us.

Steve

wolfdancer
04-01-2011, 10:48 PM
Wolfie and Hondo have not abandoned Gayle....I got tired of the derogatory/sexual comments about my family,the threats,the implied threats by your crew here. I also just could never bring myself to accept you as some kind of political/current events/Economic/ spokesman/guru (I'd rather listen to Fox News)
Also, Who wants to read filth about one's family, as you and Sev wrote about mine?
Summing it up, B...., ain't nothing you ever write here, that merits a reply from either Gayle, Hondo or myself, but....that's just my opinion and don't let that stop you from sharing your worldly knowledge with the others here....

pooltchr
04-02-2011, 06:16 AM
I'm glad you are still here. I was hoping you hadn't been banned again, as whenever that happens, everyone seems to want to blame me.

However, since you mentioned it, I'm still waiting for you to explain why you are lying about my posting anything about your family.

Steve

LWW
04-02-2011, 07:21 AM
Why does a dog bark?

Sev
04-02-2011, 04:29 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wolfie and Hondo have not abandoned Gayle....I got tired of the derogatory/sexual comments about my family,the threats,the implied threats by your crew here. I also just could never bring myself to accept you as some kind of political/current events/Economic/ spokesman/guru (I'd rather listen to Fox News)
Also, Who wants to read filth about one's family, as you and Sev wrote about mine?
Summing it up, B...., ain't nothing you ever write here, that merits a reply from either Gayle, Hondo or myself, but....that's just my opinion and don't let that stop you from sharing your worldly knowledge with the others here.... </div></div>

Excuse me.
What did I ever post about your family? I didnt know you had any. I figured you probably outlived them all. Since that's not the case perhaps they should drag you in and have you checked for dementia, because its increasingly apparent that your wits are leaving you.
My understanding is that the Kevorkian clinic has an 1 800 number and a quick response team.
Their motto, "Putting the population to rest. I client at a time".

I am sure you wont have any problem find someone to assist in dialing the number for.

Now you have something to snivel about. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Sev
04-02-2011, 04:30 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why does a dog bark? </div></div>

For attention???

JohnnyD
04-02-2011, 06:25 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wolfie and Hondo have not abandoned Gayle....I got tired of the derogatory/sexual comments about my family,the threats,the implied threats by your crew here. I also just could never bring myself to accept you as some kind of political/current events/Economic/ spokesman/guru (I'd rather listen to Fox News)
Also, Who wants to read filth about one's family, as you and Sev wrote about mine?
Summing it up, B...., ain't nothing you ever write here, that merits a reply from either Gayle, Hondo or myself, but....that's just my opinion and don't let that stop you from sharing your worldly knowledge with the others here.... </div></div>
It never happened.YOU lie like handoe.
WHY did he lie?

LWW
04-02-2011, 11:04 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why does a dog bark? </div></div>

For attention???
</div></div>

Because it's a dog.

Why does a far leftist lie?

Because it's a far leftist.

LWW
04-02-2011, 11:05 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JohnnyD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wolfie and Hondo have not abandoned Gayle....I got tired of the derogatory/sexual comments about my family,the threats,the implied threats by your crew here. I also just could never bring myself to accept you as some kind of political/current events/Economic/ spokesman/guru (I'd rather listen to Fox News)
Also, Who wants to read filth about one's family, as you and Sev wrote about mine?
Summing it up, B...., ain't nothing you ever write here, that merits a reply from either Gayle, Hondo or myself, but....that's just my opinion and don't let that stop you from sharing your worldly knowledge with the others here.... </div></div>
It never happened.YOU lie like handoe.
WHY did he lie? </div></div>

Why does a dog bark?

JohnnyD
04-02-2011, 11:14 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wolfie and Hondo have not abandoned Gayle....I got tired of the derogatory/sexual comments about my family,the threats,the implied threats by your crew here. I also just could never bring myself to accept you as some kind of political/current events/Economic/ spokesman/guru (I'd rather listen to Fox News)
Also, Who wants to read filth about one's family, as you and Sev wrote about mine?
Summing it up, B...., ain't nothing you ever write here, that merits a reply from either Gayle, Hondo or myself, but....that's just my opinion and don't let that stop you from sharing your worldly knowledge with the others here.... </div></div>
So wolfy & handoe DID abandon gail.Smart move i say.Now if handoe could just get unstuck from wolfy's rear end,oh well!

LWW
04-03-2011, 03:34 AM
You have obviously never read the authorization to use force.

If you had, you would know what we said we would find ... and that we found what we said we would find, and found it where we said we would find it.

You would also know the numerous reasons given.

Where Bush lamed out is that he tried to appease the unappeasable left.

No UN resolution was ever needed, and none should have been sought.

Qtec
04-03-2011, 03:55 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and that we found what we said we would find, and found it where we said we would find it. </div></div>

Boy, still beating that dead mule.

Bush tells the truth. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bush says Iraq had no WMDs </div></div>

Bush flaps about like a fish washed up on the beach.

watch it.... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soohikNdbWs)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and found it where we said we would find it. </div></div>

Oh boy!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Former US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has <span style='font-size: 17pt'>finally confessed he was wrong to claim America knew where Saddam Hussein had stockpiled weapons of mass destruction in the first days after the Iraq invasion.</span>
His inflammatory claim that ‘we know where they are’ was quickly proved to be an empty boast.</div></div>

Oh my!!! (http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/International/03-Feb-2011/Rumsfeld-confesses-he-was-wrong-about-WMDs-in-Iraq)

Q

Gayle in MD
04-03-2011, 07:11 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and that we found what we said we would find, and found it where we said we would find it. </div></div>

Boy, still beating that dead mule.

Bush tells the truth. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bush says Iraq had no WMDs </div></div>

Bush flaps about like a fish washed up on the beach.

watch it.... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soohikNdbWs)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and found it where we said we would find it. </div></div>

Oh boy!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Former US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has <span style='font-size: 17pt'>finally confessed he was wrong to claim America knew where Saddam Hussein had stockpiled weapons of mass destruction in the first days after the Iraq invasion.</span>
His inflammatory claim that ‘we know where they are’ was quickly proved to be an empty boast.</div></div>

Oh my!!! (http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/International/03-Feb-2011/Rumsfeld-confesses-he-was-wrong-about-WMDs-in-Iraq)

Q

</div></div>

They live in their own "Little" world.
Andrew Sullivan explains it very well...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It seems to me that the last year or so in America's political culture has represented the triumph of untruth. And the untruth was propagated by a deliberate, simple and systemic campaign to kill Obama's presidency in its crib. Emergency measures in a near-unprecedented economic collapse - the bank bailout, the auto-bailout, the stimulus - were described by the right as ideological moves of choice, when they were, in fact, pragmatic moves of necessity. The increasingly effective isolation of Iran's regime - and destruction of its legitimacy from within - was portrayed as a function of Obama's weakness, rather than his strength. The health insurance reform - almost identical to Romney's, to the right of the Clintons in 1993, costed to reduce the deficit, without a public option, and with millions more customers for the insurance and drug companies - was turned into a socialist government take-over.

Every one of these moves could be criticized in many ways. What cannot be done honestly, in my view, is to create a narrative from all of them to describe Obama as an anti-American hyper-leftist, spending the US into oblivion. But since this seems to be the only shred of thinking left on the right (exacerbated by the justified flight of the educated classes from a party that is now openly contemptuous of learning), it became a familiar refrain - pummeled into our heads day and night by talk radio and Fox. If you think I'm exaggerating, try the following thought experiment.







If a black Republican president had come in, helped turn around the banking and auto industries (at a small profit!), insured millions through the private sector while cutting Medicare, overseen a sharp decline in illegal immigration, ramped up the war in Afghanistan, reinstituted pay-as-you go in the Congress, set up a debt commission to offer hard choices for future debt reduction, and seen private sector job growth outstrip the public sector's in a slow but dogged recovery, somehow I don't think that Republican would be regarded as a socialist.

This is the era of the Big Lie, in other words, and it translates into a lot of little lies - "death panels," "out-of-control" spending, "apologies for America" etc. - designed to concoct a false narrative so simple and so familiar it actually succeeded in getting into people's minds in the midst of a brutal recession. And integral to this process have been conservative "intellectuals" who should and do know better, but have long since sacrificed intellectual honesty for the cheap thrills of enabling power-grabs. And few lies represent this intellectual cooptation of talk radio/FNC propaganda better than the lie that Obama has publicly rebutted the idea of American exceptionalism.

Where does one start? Where one always starts with these things - Jonah Goldberg:

Last year, when asked if he believed in American exceptionalism, President Obama responded, "I believe in American exceptionalism, just as I suspect that the Brits believe in British exceptionalism and the Greeks believe in Greek exceptionalism."

This reminded me of the wonderful scene in Pixar's "The Incredibles," in which the mom says "everyone's special" and her son replies, "Which is another way of saying no one is." But at least the president made room for the sentiment that America is a special place, even if he chalked it up to a kind of benign provincialism.

Oh really?

Here is the full Obama quote:

I believe in American exceptionalism, just as I suspect that the Brits believe in British exceptionalism and the Greeks believe in Greek exceptionalism. I'm enormously proud of my country and its role and history in the world. If you think about the site of this summit and what it means, I don't think America should be embarrassed to see evidence of the sacrifices of our troops, the enormous amount of resources that were put into Europe postwar, and our leadership in crafting an Alliance that ultimately led to the unification of Europe. We should take great pride in that.

And if you think of our current situation, the United States remains the largest economy in the world. We have unmatched military capability. And I think that we have a core set of values that are enshrined in our Constitution, in our body of law, in our democratic practices, in our belief in free speech and equality, that, though imperfect, are exceptional.

Now, the fact that I am very proud of my country and I think that we've got a whole lot to offer the world does not lessen my interest in recognizing the value and wonderful qualities of other countries, or recognizing that we're not always going to be right, or that other people may have good ideas, or that in order for us to work collectively, all parties have to compromise and that includes us.

And so I see no contradiction between believing that America has a continued extraordinary role in leading the world towards peace and prosperity and recognizing that that leadership is incumbent, depends on, our ability to create partnerships because we create partnerships because we can't solve these problems alone.

In other words, Obama emphatically doesn't reduce the idea of American exceptionalism to "benign provincialism." Quite the contrary: he explicitly asserts that the values enshrined in the Constitution are exceptional, and defends them and the US's history in front of a foreign audience. It's worth pointing out this factual error at such length because everyone in the conservative movement has already made it.

And that's hardly an exaggeration. Here are Ramesh Ponnuru and Rich Lowry:

...while acknowledging that America has been a force for good, he has all but denied the idea that America is an exceptional nation. Asked whether he believed in American exceptionalism during a European trip last spring, Obama said, “I believe in American exceptionalism, just as I suspect that the Brits believe in British exceptionalism and the Greeks believe in Greek exception*alism.” (Is it just a coincidence that he reached for examples of former hegemons?)

They acknowledge here that the full quote should have run (though the original piece remains uncorrected). Said Dinesh D'Souza in his infamous Forbes piece:

This is known as American exceptionalism. But when asked at a 2009 press conference whether he believed in this ideal, Obama said no. America, he suggested, is no more unique or exceptional than Britain or Greece or any other country.

No surprise that the magazine didn't catch that error during its post-publication fact check - another one of its authors made the same mistake here. Monica Crowley in The Washington Times:

During his public life, Barack Obama has often referred to his biracial background and itinerant childhood and has said, "In no other country on Earth is my story even possible." True.

But earlier this year, while attending the European summit of the Group of 20 major economic countries, the president was asked if he believed in American exceptionalism. He replied, "I believe in American exceptionalism, just as I suspect that the Brits believe in British exceptionalism, and the Greeks believe in Greek exceptionalism."

Here's Victor Davis Hanson: "After all, Obama has rejected in explicit language the notion of American exceptionalism." And Michael Barone:

"I believe in American exceptionalism," Obama said on one of his trips to Europe, "just as I suspect that Brits believe in British exceptionalism and the Greeks believe in Greek exceptionalism." In other words, not at all. One cannot imagine Presidents Roosevelt, Truman or Kennedy, Eisenhower or Reagan, uttering such sentiments.
Here's video of Charles Krauthammer making the same mistake. Ken Blackwell at Townhall:
When asked if he believes in American exceptionalism, President Obama said yes, but he was sure that the British and the Belgians also believed in their countries’ exceptionalism.

President Obama’s version of American exceptionalism is Lake Woebegon’s children: they’re all above average. Or perhaps, he’d be more at home in Alice in Wonderland’s Caucus Race, where everyone runs and everyone gets prizes.

What's especially remarkable about this hackery - and there are numerous other examples - is that these conservative authors don't just egregiously misrepresent the president's actual position. It's that all of them actually cite, as evidence, an out of context line from the very speech that proves their analysis is wrong.

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>You can call this truthiness if you like. Better, the Dish believes, to call it what it is. A deliberate campaign of misinformation. A Big Lie.</span>


http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/11/the-rights-accuracy-problem.html
</div></div>

Soflasnapper
04-03-2011, 01:41 PM
Great cite of Andrew Sullivan. Couldn't agree more.

When he's good, which isn't always, he's great.

Over and over again, Obama chooses to govern to the right of the Democratic party consensus position, due to either actual centrist tendencies and/or cautious efforts to prove his moderation to independent voters, and yet he's endlessly characterized as the most left of the left, even as mainstream Democrats, let alone the more liberal and truly left Democrats, decry his caution and criticize his GOP-leaning positions.

It's like some kind of Bizarro World backwards mirror thing.

LWW
04-03-2011, 02:52 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's cute to cite the many naive people who characterized Obama as someone on a mission from God, but it should be noted that this kind of praise was also heaped upon Bush back in the day.</div></div>

Show me some comps then.

LWW
04-03-2011, 02:54 PM
Not having stockpiles does not constitute having none.

Words mean things.

pooltchr
04-04-2011, 06:19 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Over and over again, Obama chooses to govern to the right of the Democratic party consensus position, due to either actual centrist tendencies and/or cautious efforts to prove his moderation to independent voters, </div></div>

I suspect any move he makes toward the right is purely politically motivated. If he had his way, he would "tip over the whole island" moving to the left. He knows that if the public understands just how extreme his idology is, he would never get the support he needs to win another election.

Obama just announced he will run again in 12, which is no surprise, but he, or his handlers, are smart enough to know that there aren't enough Gayles and Qs out there to carry an election. He needs to find a way to appeal to more rational people. Moving away from the extreme left is the only way.

Steve

Sev
04-04-2011, 06:33 AM
You know if Trump jumps in the fruit is going to be shook from the tree.

Debating him is going to be uncomfortable for many potential nominee's.

Trump has his own problems. However he could potentially suck all the oxygen from the room.

Gayle in MD
04-04-2011, 06:55 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Great cite of Andrew Sullivan. Couldn't agree more.

When he's good, which isn't always, he's great.

Over and over again, Obama chooses to govern to the right of the Democratic party consensus position, due to either actual centrist tendencies and/or cautious efforts to prove his moderation to independent voters, and yet he's endlessly characterized as the most left of the left, even as mainstream Democrats, let alone the more liberal and truly left Democrats, decry his caution and criticize his GOP-leaning positions.

It's like some kind of Bizarro World backwards mirror thing. </div></div>


True, and I can't understand why.

The polls all show that the vast majority does not want more tax cuts for the wealthy, does not want big cuts to Medicaid, Medicare, does not want big cuts in Social Security, or our public safety agencies.

The majority actually want to repeal the Bush Tax Cuts, End the loopholes, and stop subsidizinmg corporations.

IMO, President Obama needs to take a strong stand, for a stronger Liberal Agenda! Which IMO, means end the redistribution of wealth, upwards, FIRST and foremost!

G.

pooltchr
04-04-2011, 07:03 AM
So you are in favor of redistribution of wealth, but only as long as you get to decide where it is distributed?

What is wrong with allowing individuals to work hard and gain, <u>and keep</u>, the wealth they accumulate? History has shown that the most wealthy among us, are also the most charitable with their giving.

Steve

Soflasnapper
04-04-2011, 08:19 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's cute to cite the many naive people who characterized Obama as someone on a mission from God, but it should be noted that this kind of praise was also heaped upon Bush back in the day.</div></div>

Show me some comps then. </div></div>

You don't remember them? Or do you just want to bask in those glory days?

Soflasnapper
04-04-2011, 08:20 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> You know if Trump jumps in the fruit is going to be shook from the tree.

Debating him is going to be uncomfortable for many potential nominee's.

Trump has his own problems. However he could potentially suck all the oxygen from the room. </div></div>

Not that long ago, about '99, Trump said we should solve the nation's fiscal problems by putting about a 17% tax on all wealth.

Akward, however much it actually added up at the time.

Sev
04-04-2011, 09:24 PM
I believe he has grown since the. Besides with the current economic conditions such a tax would be impossible and still would not solve the problem.

LWW
04-05-2011, 04:11 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's cute to cite the many naive people who characterized Obama as someone on a mission from God, but it should be noted that this kind of praise was also heaped upon Bush back in the day.</div></div>

Show me some comps then. </div></div>

You don't remember them? Or do you just want to bask in those glory days? </div></div>

Why not just admit that you made it up?

LWW
04-05-2011, 04:12 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> You know if Trump jumps in the fruit is going to be shook from the tree.

Debating him is going to be uncomfortable for many potential nominee's.

Trump has his own problems. However he could potentially suck all the oxygen from the room. </div></div>

Not that long ago, about '99, Trump said we should solve the nation's fiscal problems by putting about a 17% tax on all wealth.

Akward, however much it actually added up at the time. </div></div>

I believe that was a variation of the FAIR tax.