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Soflasnapper
04-05-2011, 01:48 PM
Getting Worriedhttp://www.blogger.com/img/blank.gif

by digby

Charlie Cook can hardly believe what he's seeing:
Warning signs from GOPrs (http://www.nationaljournal.com/columns/off-to-the-races/warning-signs-among-the-gop-20110404)

[T]alking with Republican pollsters, strategists and veteran campaign professionals recently, I now hear sounds of concern that havenít been heard in almost two years.

Among the worries the party now has is that a government shutdown could get blamed on the GOP. Additionally, these party insiders believe that taking on entitlements, specifically Medicare, could jeopardize the partyís hold on the House, its strong chances of taking the Senate and the stronghold that the party has been established with older white votersónot coincidentally, Medicare recipients.



Yes, this is a big problem. In fact, you have to wonder if they've just lost their marbles.

He goes on to assure us that the Republicans leadership is "intelligent and reasonable" and are only doing all this because their voters are cretins who insist that they voted for certain things and they want them done.

But the problem isn't just the hooligans. It seems that the vaunted "independent" voters who allegedly believed that Obama had gone way too far by passing health care and the stimulus and so voted out the Democrats are unhappy with the Republicans now --- also for going too far.

Keep in mind the volatility we have seen in the three previous elections. Independent voters swung heavily in favor of Democrats in 2006 and 2008. In 2010, those same independent voters went in the opposite direction to push Republicans forward. If something happens in three consecutive elections, who wants to say that a fourth time is inconceivable?



It isn't. There's an epic political battle going on in this country and these independents don't seem to get that it won't be solved by "punishing" the party that's in office every two years when it does what it promised it was going to do.

If people really feel that the stimulus and health care plans are as radical and destructive as shutting down the government and destroying the safety net, then there's no getting through to them until we have a depression or worse. Until they actively engage and figure out what's what instead of mindlessly swinging back and forth like a pendulum, this will probably continue for some time.

.

Sev
04-05-2011, 02:06 PM
Shutting down the government is really no big deal. Good sensationalism though.

Personally I hope they do. I believe the democrats with take the brunt of the blame this time around.
It would be a nice experiment to see if the conventional wisdom is wrong.

Soflasnapper
04-05-2011, 02:22 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shutting down the government is really no big deal. Good sensationalism though.

Personally I hope they do. I believe the democrats with take the brunt of the blame this time around.
It would be a nice experiment to see if the conventional wisdom is wrong. </div></div>

An increasingly child-like electorate doesn't necessarily understand what's going on, just that they don't like it, don't like what the people in charge are doing, and so they call out 'NEXT!' Meaning, it's been 10 minutes and things aren't great yet, so out with the old, in with the new. Problem: the next 10 minutes, this is still the case, so rinse and repeat.

People did NOT (mainly) vote in the GOP and their ideas-- they fired the Dems. But the GOP is indeed in the probationary status that some of them even admitted early on. Their loonier policy prescriptions only appeal to their hard-core base, while making others think they've lost their minds.

Sev
04-05-2011, 02:27 PM
Only partially true.
The Tea Party had a lot to do with the election results.

However I do not disagree that many in the electorate do not understand what is going on. As far as the child like reaction what do expect from a population that until quite recently has been by enlarge disengaged from the political process and more focused on their personal gratification?

pooltchr
04-05-2011, 02:50 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

[T]alking with Republican pollsters, strategists and veteran campaign professionals recently,
. </div></div>

Those few words do more to pinpoint the problems this country faces than anything I have seen recently.

Our elected representatives have spent years being more concerned with their campaigns and strategy planning, than they have been about doing what is best for the country.

They have dug us into such a deep hole that it is going to be painful to get out. Doing the right thing is not going to be easy. The easy thing is to make sure they don't take away anything from anybody. The right thing, which involves forcing Americans to face up to, and deal with the reality that government is not the answer to all their problems, is going to be ugly.

Government has grown year over year by promising the moon, and for a long time they were delivering. But sooner or later, the bills were going to come due. But they have created a dependent group of voters, who somehow think it is the government's job to give them everything they want.

So what should the Reps do, the right thing, or the easy thing?


Steve

Sev
04-05-2011, 02:54 PM
Well said.

eg8r
04-05-2011, 03:27 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">People did NOT (mainly) vote in the GOP and their ideas-- they fired the Dems.</div></div>Same thing happened in the previous two elections when they voted OUT the Reps. Like you said, rinse and repeat.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
04-05-2011, 03:28 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shutting down the government is really no big deal. Good sensationalism though.

Personally I hope they do. I believe the democrats with take the brunt of the blame this time around.
It would be a nice experiment to see if the conventional wisdom is wrong. </div></div>

An increasingly child-like electorate doesn't necessarily understand what's going on, just that they don't like it, don't like what the people in charge are doing, and so they call out 'NEXT!' Meaning, it's been 10 minutes and things aren't great yet, so out with the old, in with the new. Problem: the next 10 minutes, this is still the case, so rinse and repeat.

People did NOT (mainly) vote in the GOP and their ideas-- they fired the Dems. But the GOP is indeed in the probationary status that some of them even admitted early on. Their loonier policy prescriptions only appeal to their hard-core base, while making others think they've lost their minds. </div></div>

The Insurance Industry, The Republican Corporate Contributors, the Koch Billionaires, all of the corporations who don't want any regulations, spent a fortune, lying to the public, about the Affordable Health Care Bill.

Now that people have seen some of the pluses ivolved, in not being subject to heartless, greedy, for profit, Corporate Insurance CEO's, who would sooner throw a sick person, out of a moving vehicle, than treat them with any human dignity, Americans are not happy that Republicans want to throw them straight back to the wolves, who were eating them alive, in the first place.

More whistle blowers, from the Insurance Industry, have spoken the truth about how the Health Insurance Industry operates.

More disasters have emerged, from deregulatory Republican Policies, which occured before the economic collapse, and led to much of what has gone wrong....the oil industry disaster in the Gulf, didn't endear Americans, to Oil Corporations, the Nuclear Industry, and the disaster in Japan, increasing disasters in the mining of coal, and revelations about the corruption by those greedy CEo's and owners.

Americans are beginning to understand how all of the bad press, paid for by corporations who have been lying to them, and aimed at regulations, and the Dems, whie being protected by the very party who defends them, REPUBS, when they poison the environment, kill their employees, to save a few thousand dollars, while racking up record breaking profits, and endangering all of us.

This is a big country, with multifaceted issues, and needs, safety, health, cloean and safe food water, educational oportunities that wioll helop us to be on top- in thhis world, safe infrastructure, so much needs to be overseen, and taken care of, for the sake of having day to day needs addressed, public safety, public transportation, which many rely on to get to work, it's simply ridiculous to think you can run a huge country, with a small government, and do the job right.

Also, Americans are beginning to understand the whole phenomenon of Republicans only interest in representing the wealthy, now that they have made that perfectly clear, by laying all of the hardship, on the poor and Middle Class, while giving more more more, to the corporations, who skip out on much of their fair share, and given their humongus profits, which don't bring us jobs regardloess of Unions, or taxes, or any of their faux excuses for covering up their greed and thievery, they're all enjoying a free ticket to abuse us all further, compliments of the Republican party.....it's being made pretty obvious, these days.

I don't think it's going to be good to be the Party, who potected the banks, the crooks on Wall st., Big Oil, N.P.PLants, Wall Street shenanigans, which hurt the country, The Health Insurance Industry, all of the gougers,
while at the same time, cutting out money for the tsunami warning system, reducing regulations on oil and nuclear power plants, cutting education, cancer research, loads of things that Americans expect, as well they should expect, from our government, whie at the same time, giving more, more more, to the wealthy.

It makes far more sense, to build, than to retract, and we already know, Republicans are cutting JOBS, not creating them, and "JOBS" was number one, on everybodies list, not the deficit.

We have years to work on the deficit, but dipping back to the brink of Bush's depression, because Repubs cut the hell out of everything that kept people working, is insanity, in the midst of a fragile recovery.

There really aren't that many Tea Partiers IMO. They couldn't even get a crowd of them together for their big Washington D.C. "Rally" if you can call it that...several dozen??? LOL.

Health care costs were killing them, and now, some of us seniors are seeing some damn good results from the AHCA...

Polls show the public would blame Repubs, more than Dems, if the Republican Congress, shuts down the Government.

Boehner and the rest, standing up there yapping about how they refuse to compromise, puts the fault right at their feet.

Compromise, is what Government is all about, and it doesn't say in the beloved Costitution, that ONLY the House, runs everything.....they are expected to work with the Senate, and the White Houe, and COMPROMISE....they've painted themselves into a corner. The Tea Party, is their biggest headache, now, for all but the zany Repubs, who have no shot at winning in 2012, and who are ore of an embarrassment to the Party Faithful, than anything else.

LOL, Same ol' Repubs, it's all about pandering to their wealthy contributors, and throwing everyone else overboard.

Some things never change.... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

G.

Sev
04-05-2011, 04:01 PM
The fact that the democrats have failed to offer any solutions other than more spending seems to indicated that their plan is to rip any republican plan, kick it down the road and then blame republicans for not being able to solve the problem.

As far as compromise goes. Where was it on the health care bill???

pooltchr
04-05-2011, 10:19 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

As far as compromise goes. Where was it on the health care bill??? </div></div>

You mean the same healthcare bill that the evil insurance companies love so much? If the insurance industry is as bad as Gayle says, how can a bill they supported be good for Americans?

Steve

Gayle in MD
04-05-2011, 11:04 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Getting Worriedhttp://www.blogger.com/img/blank.gif

by digby

Charlie Cook can hardly believe what he's seeing:
Warning signs from GOPrs (http://www.nationaljournal.com/columns/off-to-the-races/warning-signs-among-the-gop-20110404)

[T]alking with Republican pollsters, strategists and veteran campaign professionals recently, I now hear sounds of concern that havenít been heard in almost two years.

Among the worries the party now has is that a government shutdown could get blamed on the GOP. Additionally, these party insiders believe that taking on entitlements, specifically Medicare, could jeopardize the partyís hold on the House, its strong chances of taking the Senate and the stronghold that the party has been established with older white votersónot coincidentally, Medicare recipients.



Yes, this is a big problem. In fact, you have to wonder if they've just lost their marbles.

He goes on to assure us that the Republicans leadership is "intelligent and reasonable" and are only doing all this because their voters are cretins who insist that they voted for certain things and they want them done.

But the problem isn't just the hooligans. It seems that the vaunted "independent" voters who allegedly believed that Obama had gone way too far by passing health care and the stimulus and so voted out the Democrats are unhappy with the Republicans now --- also for going too far.

Keep in mind the volatility we have seen in the three previous elections. Independent voters swung heavily in favor of Democrats in 2006 and 2008. In 2010, those same independent voters went in the opposite direction to push Republicans forward. If something happens in three consecutive elections, who wants to say that a fourth time is inconceivable?



It isn't. There's an epic political battle going on in this country and these independents don't seem to get that it won't be solved by "punishing" the party that's in office every two years when it does what it promised it was going to do.

If people really feel that the stimulus and health care plans are as radical and destructive as shutting down the government and destroying the safety net, then there's no getting through to them until we have a depression or worse. Until they actively engage and figure out what's what instead of mindlessly swinging back and forth like a pendulum, this will probably continue for some time.

. </div></div>

Seems to me that although Mr. Cook makes some good points about the Independent voters, he also isn't telling the truth, since Republicans promised Jobs, Jobs, Jobs...remember? Where are the jobs?

Republicans are not doing anything to create jobs, they are doing everything that will destroy new jobs.

Yes, those Independents who foolishly voted for Republicans, when their forte' is telling the "Geatest Story Ever Sold" without any ideas for addressing the main issue, Jobs, Jobs, Jobs....are now suffering from buyers remorse, as welol they should be.

Ryan is destroying every safety net, for the Middle, the ill and the old, while giving more to the wealthy. He is actually privatizing medicare, throwing seniors under the bus, subject to the greed, and monopolized unhumanity of the health Insurance Industry, and calling it "Premium Support" LMAO!

Guess Ryan wasn't watching and listening, back in 05, when the public clearly sent a message to GW Bush, NO PRIVATIZED MEDICARE!!!!

I suppose Mr. Cook wasn't paying attention, either. republicans are not giving the people what they were asking for. The nutty Tea Baggers, are a very small slice of Americanna, particularly, when they don't get to ride on that shiny big bus, provided by Koch Industries, lol...

G.

LWW
04-06-2011, 02:17 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

As far as compromise goes. Where was it on the health care bill??? </div></div>

You mean the same healthcare bill that the evil insurance companies love so much? If the insurance industry is as bad as Gayle says, how can a bill they supported be good for Americans?

Steve </div></div>

You have forced her into doublethink mode again.

To the O-cult ... the insurance companies are evil and hurt people, therefor we must force everyone to deal with them whether they want to or not.

LWW
04-06-2011, 02:19 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[Seems to me that although Mr. Cook makes some good points about the Independent voters, he also isn't telling the truth, since Republicans promised Jobs, Jobs, Jobs...remember? Where are the jobs?

Republicans are not doing anything to create jobs, they are doing everything that will destroy new jobs.

G.

</div></div>

Weren't you just trumpeting how the UE rate was falling?

Gayle in MD
04-06-2011, 10:06 AM
Too late to edit my last post, I misread a paragraph, and didnt reaize that Mr. Cook, was giving a very accurate appraisal. Sorry...
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif