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MaineEAck
09-12-2002, 06:59 PM
I went to a pool tournament in CT, and played with a few players who shoot very very well. The thing is one of the guys I played with the whole weekend had a kinda loopy stroke and a few habits when shooting.

When I came back I started shooting with a little bit of the loopy'niss and when I am shooting a shot if I don't feel right, I get half way up and stroke my stick twice and move my feet a little.
It looks weird ( or so I would think it does) but I am playing a lot and I mean a lot better then normal. It has been working for me for a few days now.

I guess my question is should I stay with the new way and risk looking like I am trying to act like Efren Rayes or any other Philippian players?

Thierry Layani
09-12-2002, 07:20 PM
Hi Jordan,

If you want my modest advice, keep it simple. I've learned with time that when you keep things simple, you don't start worrying about your stroke or anything else, you just play your game and forget about your technique. You actually become your technique. If you're too conscious of your technique, it will actually disturb you because your mind won't be at the right place. For what it means and for what it's worth... keep it simple.
Also keep in mind that for Bustamante or Reyes, their technique is probably very simple to execute. Simple doesn't mean conventionnal.

Thierry Layani
www.layanicues.com (http://www.layanicues.com)

Barbara
09-12-2002, 07:24 PM
Jordan,

Get yourself to an instructor BEFORE you start learning new things, probably which are NOT good mechanics!

Preferably this will be a BCA instructor. Ken Tewksbury is somewhat in your area and he's very good. I think he even made Master Instructor when I took RandyG's Pool School up there. Ken's in Concord, NH - 603-225-8298. Talk to him, he'll probably try to work a couple things over the phone with you.

Jordan, dont' try to copy someone that has that "locomotive stroke". You're too good of a player with your own stroke and you may think that this is working out now, but you could be stonewalling yourself in the future BIG TIME. Please get some professional instruction right now.

Barbara~~~knows Jordan's a very good player and needs the 5 on out from him...

Cueless Joey
09-12-2002, 07:30 PM
I for one believe that practice strokes are not as nearly important as the LAST stroke. So what if Bustamante looks like he's flopping then he slows down pauses and delivers a pure stroke through the ball?
Efren no longer has the loopy stroke. What he has is a fluid rhythm stroke.
If you want to emulate a player with the perfect mechanics, that would be Davenport imo.

MaineEAck
09-12-2002, 07:36 PM
ok, I understand what you guys are saying... The one thing is.. I wasn't copying them... I was just doing it. And I ahve been to Ken Tewksbury 4 or 5 times... The way he theaches just did not go well with me... Although he knows a real lot! The way that I was playing before did not feel right... Now I feel confortable, but if you guys think I should keep it simple, I will go abck to my old ways.... thanks everyone for all the advice.

Cueless Joey
09-12-2002, 07:46 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: MaineEAck:</font><hr> ok, I understand what you guys are saying... The one thing is.. I wasn't copying them... I was just doing it. And I ahve been to Ken Tewksbury 4 or 5 times... The way he theaches just did not go well with me... Although he knows a real lot! The way that I was playing before did not feel right... Now I feel confortable, but if you guys think I should keep it simple, I will go abck to my old ways.... thanks everyone for all the advice. <hr></blockquote>
Simple is what YOU are comfortable with.

09-12-2002, 07:50 PM
many times people get some new little thing that helps them play a little better but its usually for just a little while... that being said if you find that doing this helps you for an extended period of time who am i to tell you not to do it.

MaineEAck
09-12-2002, 07:56 PM
I don't want anyone to think that i am not listening to what you are saying.... I really am and I will take it all to heart... I am not responding aruging... jsut telling you guys what I am thinking... That being said...

Simple seems to slow to me, and it seems If my arm is not moving fast... I feel slow, and don't think of the shot, or the game... I owe all of my skill(which is not much) to one thing...(besides everyone helping me... ect.) When I play...
I am Fascinated with things I do... and I kinda fall in love with my stroke... If that makes any sense at all... /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Rod
09-12-2002, 08:43 PM
Quote Jordan,I am Fascinated with things I do... and I kinda fall in love with my stroke... If that makes any sense at all...

Well in that case allow your arm to give yourself a hug!! Just kiding but I know what you mean, it does make sense. BTW there is nothing wrong with slow. What you may have found is an easier way to be relaxed, hard to say but that's very possible. Notice how your arm and grip feels during the loopy type of stroke, and try to get the same feeling with a normal swing. When ever you do something different and it feels better or may be better try to figure out why and it might be possible adapt a part of it to your routine. Don't copy someone just for the sake of doing it, it has to fit your style of play. One last thought don't move around after your in your stance, move away from the table and set up again.

BLACKHEART
09-12-2002, 11:42 PM
HI Jordan. I can only repeat what works for most things in life, &amp; certainly in pool.......K-I-S-S......KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID...JER

Rich R.
09-13-2002, 04:28 AM
Jordan, is it possible that this new stroke feels so good, and works good, because you are concentrating more on it right now? I'm affraid that when you stop concentrating on it that your mechanics will betray you and your game will go down hill quickly. You shouldn't have to concentrate too much on your stroke. It should just happen. For that reason, I believe the simple way is the better way. More motion takes more thought.
From what I have read in the past, you are a very good, young player. Don't mess with success.
Rich R.~~~a firm believer in KISS.

Patrick
09-13-2002, 07:46 AM
There is only one good way to play pool: The perfect way.
You use that weird stroke because you can't tell the difference because 9-ball is too easy. If Efren would play a harder game like the game Rotation Straight Pool; he would change his stroke into a better one if he was smart enough.
Look at snooker players and pool players, snooker players need a good stroke because you need more accuracy in snooker, pool players use a bad stroke because once they played good with it, they don't even know why! If you know why, then you can change your stroke into the perfect stroke.
So the pros kept using that stroke for the rest of their life, because they think that is a magic stroke, this is very wrong. It is only magic for stupid people.

Patrick

MaineEAck
09-13-2002, 08:06 AM
Well, Efren is not stupid... Thats for sure... How did you ever get to where you "know-so-much" about pool? and are you still from another GaLa...ERRR.. WORL... ERR PLACE?
Or are you still playing the games that i used to play in 4th grade...??? /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif just kidding

Fred Agnir
09-13-2002, 08:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Patrick:</font><hr> It is only magic for stupid people. <hr></blockquote>
I'm changing my quote. This one's too good.

Fred

Patrick
09-13-2002, 07:34 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: MaineEAck:</font><hr> Well, Efren is not stupid... Thats for sure... How did you ever get to where you "know-so-much" about pool? and are you still from another GaLa...ERRR.. WORL... ERR PLACE?
Or are you still playing the games that i used to play in 4th grade...??? /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif just kidding <hr></blockquote>Some autistics are smart but normal people can't see it.

2 years ago I knew very little about pool, now I know more than anyone else because I have more knowledge about things and I know what happens with the balls. All this was done in Virtual pool 3, except stance and stroke, for this I watched a lot of tapes with snooker players. Now I know every little movement that they make with their body.

Higher plane means outside this Universe.

What games?

Patrick

MaineEAck
09-13-2002, 08:37 PM
where can I see some results of REAL pool tourneys you have won? Are you going to the US OPEN? You should be able to win it for sure if you "Know Everything"

Voodoo Daddy
09-13-2002, 09:38 PM
Jordan, dont get into it with this freak. He is just trying to get a rise outta you. The stroke that your using is something you need to try then try it. It wont be permanent and you'll look for other options soon. It works for Efren but thats doesnt mean it will for you. Oh and Patrick...Efren may be THE master at Rotation, with his see-saw stroke and all, moron.

Chris Cass
09-14-2002, 12:16 AM
Hey Kid,

Where you been? Who cares what you look like, IF your making balls? Good to here from ya Jordan. Have you started inlay work yet? I'm trying to figure out a way to make a home made spinner with a drill and what ever they call that thing that holds the other end. I mainly want it to spin my shafts and my wifes and sons. Just for tip and burnishing. Not trying to be a cue man.

Regards,

C.C.

Patrick
09-14-2002, 06:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Voodoo Daddy:</font><hr>Oh and Patrick...Efren may be THE master at Rotation, with his see-saw stroke and all, moron. <hr></blockquote>I didn't say Rotation, I said Rotation Straight Pool. www.angelfire.com/film/rsp/ (http://www.angelfire.com/film/rsp/)

Patrick

Patrick
09-14-2002, 06:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: MaineEAck:</font><hr> where can I see some results of REAL pool tourneys you have won? Are you going to the US OPEN? You should be able to win it for sure if you "Know Everything" <hr></blockquote>1) I don't have money to travel. 2) 9-ball is a stupid luck game. 3) I don't need to show anyone. (It is like showing your skill to insects, they don't care nor understand)

Patrick

bluewolf
09-14-2002, 07:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Patrick:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: MaineEAck:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt; Well, Efren is not stupid... Thats for sure... How did you ever get to where you "know-so-much" about pool? and are you still from another GaLa...ERRR.. WORL... ERR PLACE?
Or are you still playing the games that i used to play in 4th grade...??? /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif just kidding &lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;Some autistics are smart but normal people can't see it.

2 years ago I knew very little about pool, now I know more than anyone else because I have more knowledge about things and I know what happens with the balls. All this was done in Virtual pool 3, except stance and stroke, for this I watched a lot of tapes with snooker players. Now I know every little movement that they make with their body.

Higher plane means outside this Universe.

What games?

Patrick <hr></blockquote>

Patrick,

I agree with your first statements. Nobody understands the autistic mind unless they are autistic. Even someone like me who has worked with and tested them only have a glimmer of understanding.It is like a beach with trillions of specs of sand.It would be arrogant to thank that because I understand one spec of sand that I understand the whole beach.

bw

Sid_Vicious
09-14-2002, 09:38 AM
I'll wager you that the improvement will evaporate in 3 days or less. I can't count the number of times I have "lucked" into a "discovery" and made damn near everything for 2 days, then my 90% shots wouldn't fall. It is my contention that the new thing sets an anchor of confidence and your subconscious gobbles it up and you are a felf king until your fundamentals cry for their attention. Confidence crubbles after that. I'd try it for a while but I would doubt that you will keep your new stroke for long. Just don't allow it to screw you up in general...sid~~~That's my 2c.

MaineEAck
09-14-2002, 08:36 PM
I have been going days now running out from everywhere.... (Not To Brag) Now i ahve to decide between results and taking the advice of many others on the CCB board... I am just afriad that I am going to be missing the big change in my game I have been waiting for....

Tom_In_Cincy
09-14-2002, 08:45 PM
Sounds like you have stumbled into a good rhythem routine for shooting. Keep it up. Go for it. I doubt it will ever completley stop helping your game..

Tom_In_Cincy
09-14-2002, 08:46 PM
Patrick,

Do you adjust for "Squirt" and "Deflection" while using VP3?
Just curious

MaineEAck
09-14-2002, 08:53 PM
Thanks for all the support

Patrick
09-15-2002, 09:23 AM
Quote: Tom_In_Cincy:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick,

Do you adjust for "Squirt" and "Deflection" while using VP3?
Just curious
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Squirt and deflection is the same thing.

Of course, you need to adjust everything on every shot. If I use another speed of the cueball, both the direction to the object ball, and the position play changes. If I change spin on the cueball, I also need to change everything to compensate. You can't just aim and use whatever speed and spin you decide, this doesn't work in higher skill levels. You need to know how the balls rotate to be accurate in compensating.
For the cueball and object ball impact I compensate for deflection, throw, speed, and when the cueball is in the air when it contacts the object ball. For position play I compensate for speed and spin.
If you change one of these, you need to change everything else.

Patrick