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View Full Version : Rumor Mill: The Moron Signed an Illegal EO



llotter
05-06-2011, 01:17 PM
So, I heard that The Pathetic Moron issued an Executive Order to kill bin Laden and if that is true, I wonder if it would legal? Does it matter if it were legal or not?

wolfdancer
05-06-2011, 02:10 PM
I guess your constant referring to the POTUS as a moron, despite his proven intellect;....that evidently did not get the "rise" you expected....so now you have added "pathetic" to your insult.
As to the legality of the executive order. You may be right in your questioning that....it would explain then, why GWB did not pursue the matter more aggressively?
But.....maybe it was an illegal response to an illegal terrorist attack on U.S. soil? It would be interesting to have that debated in the NY Times.

eg8r
05-06-2011, 02:10 PM
Why do you call it illegal in the subject heading with no question mark but then in the body question the legality? Either you know it is or not.

eg8r

pooltchr
05-06-2011, 03:12 PM
The subject line specified that it was a rumor...I don't think he was stating a fact.

And it does raise an interesting question, along the lines of the one I raised a couple of days ago. Is it legal for the POTUS to issue a kill order on an individual?

Steve

llotter
05-06-2011, 03:23 PM
You might check out this for iegality:

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201105020016

To be honest, this is not the source of my thread but I couldn't find it.

Sev
05-06-2011, 03:39 PM
Its floating around out there.

Impeachment for killing Osama???

llotter
05-06-2011, 03:58 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfdancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I guess your constant referring to the POTUS as a moron, despite his proven intellect;....that evidently did not get the "rise" you expected....so now you have added "pathetic" to your insult.
As to the legality of the executive order. You may be right in your questioning that....it would explain then, why GWB did not pursue the matter more aggressively?
But.....maybe it was an illegal response to an illegal terrorist attack on U.S. soil? It would be interesting to have that debated in the NY Times.
</div></div>

I have not seen much evidence of his 'proven intellect' other than where he attended school and if that was the product of affirmative action, it is hard to say what standard he had to meet.

The Moron epithet relates to his observable actions and I think it is wholly fitting. while I would grant that there many, especially from academia and from others who tend to line up behind the professorial class as a matter of habit, who argue in favor of those actions, to those of us on the conservative side, those actions are totally moronic. A problem caused by too much debt is not going to be solved by adding more debt, especially on such a grand scale as we have taken on since The Pathetic Moron took office.

Other than the success of killing OBL which happened to drop into his lap, his foreign policy is as bad or worse. Afghanistan is going to end up a total waste as most anyone could predict, even GWB. Bush had it right to deemphasize that war simply because there is virtually no prospect of developing that country into much of anything more than it is...at least for many decades. And though not forgotten entirely, Bush was probably also right to shine the light away from OBL rather than suffer too much national defeat by our inability to catch him. Obviously, his effectiveness had been severely cramped.

The Pathetic Moron is about to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in Iraq which GWB again was very successful. His handling of Libya could hardly be more incompetent and could potentially prove a much bigger disaster. Iran and Egypt and Syria are being handled with equal incompetence.

IMO, The Pathetic Moron is a label that fits when evaluated by his actions as president of the country but maybe not so well if he were a community organizer or an academic.

Even more generally, I an anti-statist because i value liberty and therefore strongly against policies that foster dependence rather than independence. I think that F. A. Hayek understood the issue better than most anyone and he definitely help develop my thinking.

Gayle in MD
05-09-2011, 12:17 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pooltchr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The subject line specified that it was a rumor...I don't think he was stating a fact.

And it does raise an interesting question, along the lines of the one I raised a couple of days ago. Is it legal for the POTUS to issue a kill order on an individual?

Steve </div></div>

AGAIN!!!!


Who said "Wanted, dead of alive!"

And why were you silent, over the legality of THAT statement?

BWA HA HA HA HA....you've totally exposed yourself as the most devoted lemming on this site.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm sure there will be some who will do their best to turn this into a political battle, but I would really like to see some thoughtful discussion on this topic. One can always hope.

Anyway...

Our country has always had a policy of not assasinating world leaders. Did we change that policy when we sent a SEAL team into Pakistan with the single intention of killing OBL?

Yes, OBL was an evil person, responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent Americans. BUT, he was also the leader of a rather large group of people, not a country, but a large group of like minded people. In some ways, that would make him as much of a world leader as some third world dictators.

There are some who would suggest that Obama was the single individual who was responsible for the decision to move in and kill OBL. IF that is true, have we now given the authority to our POTUS to decide who is worthy of living and who is not? After all, the CIC has the full force of the greatest military in the world under his control.

So now, where do we draw the line? Is it ok to target for death someone who kills 3000 people? How about 2000 people? Does it matter if they were Americans, or Canadians, or Iraquis?

Or, does it matter who the POTUS is? Remember, the office of President is temporary. At least every 8 years, there will be someone different in the office. Do we really want to grant that authority to future presidents, who we doen't even know yet?

And is this limited to leaders who are from other countries? Or do we also now have the ability to target for death any individual who leads a group of people that don't agree with the policies of the current administration?

I am personally not concerned that OBL is dead. The world is probably a better place this week. My concern is that our government actually planned an operation that was designed specifically to kill someone. If it was ok to do this with OBL, is it ok for anyone?

Again, I would hate to see this turn into a Rep/Dem discussion...but rather let's try to keep it on the subject of how our country will make use of our military forces in years to come.

All adult comments would be welcomed.

Steve





How would you define a world leader? Do they have to be a leader of a country? Why? Is the Pope a world leader?
If I buy an island and have a dozen people living there, can I claim status as a country and become a world leader?
Is the leader of China more of a world leader than the POTUS, simply because more people live in that country?
Is it a matter of size, or power, or influence? If it is, then OBL certainly had influence ofer the group he lead.

Your opinion is that OBL would not be considered a world leader, but on what exactly do you base your opinion?

Steve




I agree, but did we cross the line when we went in with the sole intention of killing him? I could understand an operation to capture him, or if that became impossible, then using lethal force. But when the capture option is removed, it creates some serious moral questions.
We are being told he was not armed. Why not try to capture him first? If he resisted, then use whatever force is necessary. I'm pretty sure that a group of Navy SEALS would be quite capable of overpowering the skinny old SOB.

Steve




He may have resisted, but as I pointed out, I'm sure a team of SEALS could have overpowered an unarmed skinny old fart.

But, to my point, how do we decide, and who decides, who we can target for death and who do we target for capture and due process? Yes, if anyone deserved to die, it was OBL...but now it becomes a question of where we draw the line. We have effectively said that the president can decide to send in an assasination squad if he determines it is warrented. How bad do you have to be for it to be ok to become a direct target?

It's like the old joke about the guy who asks the girl if she would sleep with him for a million dollars. When she says yes, he asks if she would sleep with him for a dollar. Her shocked reply "What kind of girl do you think I am?" wwhere he says "We've already determined that..now we are negotiating price"

Steve




Well, the reasonable adult conversation actually held up until woofie and gee had to turn it into another political us-vs-them thread.
I assume their lack of intelligent comment on the TOPIC of the thread indicates they don't have anything of substance to contribute.

Maybe I can put it more simply for them. Did we make a mistake by ordering the murder of Osama on foreign soil? Have we opened the door for this to happen again to someone else? And who will decide who the next victim might be?

This is not a political question....it's a policy question. What should our policy be on ordering a military hit on any individual?

Steve



OK, let me play devil's advocate for a minute.
Suppose the Pakistan government decided that our SEAL team was on their most wanted list for the murder of OBL. Suppose they sent a team of assassins to the US with the specific goal of killing them.
What do you think the US response should be?

Should we perhaps have just gone in, done the job, got out, and not even have claimed credit, or made public, anything about the raid? "OBL found dead in Pakistan home. Police have no suspects"

The whole idea of the so called "black ops" is they are conducted very quietly. Why are we now revealing how we conduct these operations? Are we diluting the possible effectivenes of future operations?

Steve



They seem to have taken a perfectly executed military operation, and mishandled the post ops to the point where they look like a bunch of bumbling idiots.

Steve



Probably not the best description of my feelings. I am happy that he no longer presents a threat to others. I'm sorry that someone felt that assassination was the best solution.

Steve



How would you define a world leader? Do they have to be a leader of a country? Why? Is the Pope a world leader?
If I buy an island and have a dozen people living there, can I claim status as a country and become a world leader?
Is the leader of China more of a world leader than the POTUS, simply because more people live in that country?
Is it a matter of size, or power, or influence? If it is, then OBL certainly had influence ofer the group he lead.

Your opinion is that OBL would not be considered a world leader, but on what exactly do you base your opinion?

Steve


Well, lets just ask your opinon, Steve. Was OBL a world leader, in your opinion? You certainly put him in that status, with your remarks, and concerns. Did you not?

And, just how is it that in one post, you wrote that you couldn't be happy about anyone's death, or celebrate over it, yet you wrote this in another?


Quote:
Why is it so difficult for you to comprehend that I can be happy that OBL is dead, and at the same time, question the motives of this administration in the way they handled things? Unlike you, I will not accept at face value anything this administration says.




So, are you happy OBL is dead, or not? Do you hold him on the same level, as you would a world leader, or not?

G.

[Re: Gayle in MD]
pooltchr pooltchr
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Loc: Charlotte, NC Probably not the best description of my feelings. I am happy that he no longer presents a threat to others. I'm sorry that someone felt that assassination was the best solution.

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#351505 - 07/05/11 09:56 AM Re: Have we opened Pandora's box? [Re: Gayle in MD]
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Registered: 18/04/03
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#351545 - 07/05/11 08:44 PM Re: Have we opened Pandora's box? [Re: pooltchr]
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I don't think the American people would have been happy with any other result. I agree, I do not praise or get excited at the assassination of another human being. I am just happy that Obama gave the order to make sure OBL will not be a danger ever again.

eg8r


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#351554 - 07/05/11 11:26 PM Re: Have we opened Pandora's box? [Re: eg8r]
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#351505 - 07/05/11 09:56 AM Re: Have we opened Pandora's box? [Re: Gayle in MD]
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Registered: 18/04/03
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Loc: Charlotte, NC Probably not the best description of my feelings. I am happy that he no longer presents a threat to others. I'm sorry that someone felt that assassination was the best solution.

Steve
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#351545 - 07/05/11 08:44 PM Re: Have we opened Pandora's box? [Re: pooltchr]
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I don't think the American people would have been happy with any other result. I agree, I do not praise or get excited at the assassination of another human being. I am just happy that Obama gave the order to make sure OBL will not be a danger ever again.

eg8r


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#351554 - 07/05/11 11:26 PM Re: Have we opened Pandora's box? [Re: eg8r]
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#351505 - 07/05/11 09:56 AM Re: Have we opened Pandora's box? [Re: Gayle in MD]
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Registered: 18/04/03
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Loc: Charlotte, NC Probably not the best description of my feelings. I am happy that he no longer presents a threat to others. I'm sorry that someone felt that assassination was the best solution.

Steve
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#351545 - 07/05/11 08:44 PM Re: Have we opened Pandora's box? [Re: pooltchr]
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I don't think the American people would have been happy with any other result. I agree, I do not praise or get excited at the assassination of another human being. I am just happy that Obama gave the order to make sure OBL will not be a danger ever again.

eg8r


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#351554 - 07/05/11 11:26 PM Re: Have we opened Pandora's box? [Re: eg8r]
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#351505 - 07/05/11 09:56 AM Re: Have we opened Pandora's box? [Re: Gayle in MD]
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Registered: 18/04/03
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Loc: Charlotte, NC Probably not the best description of my feelings. I am happy that he no longer presents a threat to others. I'm sorry that someone felt that assassination was the best solution.

Steve
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#351545 - 07/05/11 08:44 PM Re: Have we opened Pandora's box? [Re: pooltchr]
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I don't think the American people would have been happy with any other result. I agree, I do not praise or get excited at the assassination of another human being. I am just happy that Obama gave the order to make sure OBL will not be a danger ever again.

eg8r


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#351554 - 07/05/11 11:26 PM Re: Have we opened Pandora's box? [Re: eg8r]
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#351505 - 07/05/11 09:56 AM Re: Have we opened Pandora's box? [Re: Gayle in MD]
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Registered: 18/04/03
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Loc: Charlotte, NC Probably not the best description of my feelings. I am happy that he no longer presents a threat to others. I'm sorry that someone felt that assassination was the best solution.

Steve
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#351545 - 07/05/11 08:44 PM Re: Have we opened Pandora's box? [Re: pooltchr]
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I don't think the American people would have been happy with any other result. I agree, I do not praise or get excited at the assassination of another human being. I am just happy that Obama gave the order to make sure OBL will not be a danger ever again.

eg8r



Exactly how I feel.

Steve

Still worried today, about your devotion to OBL's right to life???? Still upset over his assassination????


Where was your concern over "Wanted, Dead or Alive!"

</div></div>