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MikeM
09-13-2002, 09:22 AM
Eight ball, you are solids. Can you show me how to get out?

MM

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)END

SPetty
09-13-2002, 12:23 PM
Hi Mike,

You mean in my dream fantasy world, or my imaginary world? /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

dream fantasy world:
If you pocket the seven rail first, that'll knock the 12 outta there. Then bank the five back into the same corner as the seven, while putting perfect powerful draw on it to snug the cue ball up against the same rail as the eight, between it and the 14. The eight is easy from there.

imaginary world:
Pocket the five with a slow roll in the bottom left corner, then the seven very easily in its corner, then gently nudge the eight ball while locking the cue ball between the eight and the rail so tight that your next shot will be ball in hand on the eight!

real world:
SOL, buddy! That is, in my real world. Maybe others can see how it really should be done!

Eric.
09-13-2002, 12:52 PM
Actually Mike, I'd opt to play safe being that your opponent has a hard time getting out with your 7 blocking the pocket. But if you must, try to pocket the 5 with middle right english to touch the stripe ball:
START(
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%Kr0O1%LF1E5%ML7F3%NW4D1%Ok7G9%Pp1X7%WP3W1%Xn3X8%Y E1[3%ZL7X7
%[E6F3%\C5G5%]D2I3%^N2V9
)END

Hope for luck, and maybe you'll get this:
START(
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%Kr0O1%LG9H2%ML1F9%NW4D1%Ok7G9%PJ0F0%WF1F2%XH5F2%Y d8M3%ZO1Z7
%[E6F3%\C5G5%]N5Y5%^C7H4
)END

Eric >looks good on paper

09-13-2002, 01:01 PM
slow roll the 5 ball into the corner CB off the bottom rail but hard enough to come at least straight in on the seven ( a bit high is better) if you end up high play the 7 with a touch of bottom left trying to get to the rack spot to cut the 8 in the corner if you end up straight on the 7 try and draw back off of the side rail to the rack spot.

09-13-2002, 01:04 PM
Almost same idea as mine eric but there is no need to try and go to the long rail for your shot on the 8.. by doing that you really put the 9 and the 13 ball into play stopping at the rack spot eliminates most of the error possiblities... at the very least you wont be hooked and in even bigger trouble

Fred Agnir
09-13-2002, 01:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: MikeM:</font><hr> Eight ball, you are solids. Can you show me how to get out?

MM

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%Kr0O1%LF7E7%ML7F3%NW4D1%Ok7G9%Pp1X7
)END

<hr></blockquote>

Fantasy:


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%A[3B2%Bs8C6%C[8\7%D[5B3%EM5W9%FB8[9%GD5D9%HH9D5%IN3I2%JR8S6
%Kr0O1%LF7E7%ML7F3%NW4D1%Ok7G9%Pp1X7%WO4W6%Xm8X3%Y V0G9%ZT7D4
%eA7b3%_T2D8%`O4N5%aN4W2
)END

START(
%A[3B2%Bs8C6%C[8\7%D[5B3%EB7[8%GD5D9%HH9D5%IN3I2%JR8S6%Kr0O1
%LF7E7%ML7F3%NW4D1%Ok7G9%PV5H8%WF7M7%Xr2D1%Yr1D1%Z W6H6%eB3b6
%`M2_1
)END

START(
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%LF7E7%ML7F3%NW4D1%Ok7G9%PE1M8%WD7F9%XD9K9%YG6Z6%Z D7F2%[S3E8
%\G8Z8%eB3b5%`M2_1
)END

Hope this helps,

Fred

Eric.
09-13-2002, 01:12 PM
Good point. Although, I would prefer to play a drag shot vs. slow rolling, unless I know the table well.

Eric &gt;next question: how do you skin a cat?

MikeM
09-13-2002, 01:12 PM
SPetty, Eric and Downtown,

I modified the diagram to show the 12 closer to the 7 as it was. I apologize, your suggestions were good one for the shot I showed you. In the new one there is no way to get straight in on the 7 after the 5. So I opted to try to throw the 7 into the corner, and come up table close to where I started and try to leave a cut on the 8 after the 5. I over cut the 7 and caught the point.

What I think I should have done now, is slow roll the 5 and then call a safe on the 7 and leave him tight against the 12 which is what I did a couple of shots later. If I had've won this game 8-0 we would have gotten an extra point on the night. I did win but gave up too many balls.

MM

Fred Agnir
09-13-2002, 01:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: d0wnt0wn:</font><hr> slow roll the 5 ball into the corner CB off the bottom rail but hard enough to come at least straight in on the seven ( a bit high is better) if you end up high play the 7 with a touch of bottom left trying to get to the rack spot to cut the 8 in the corner if you end up straight on the 7 try and draw back off of the side rail to the rack spot.

<hr></blockquote>
My bad. When I pasted it on the Instroke Wei Table, the 2-ball looks like it's still on the table.

Fred

MikeM
09-13-2002, 01:15 PM
Fred,

The two was in the pocket, which I also modified. I do like the way I draw the ball in your fantasy world though!

MM

MikeM
09-13-2002, 01:17 PM
Nope it was my bad. This is the firt time for me using the WEI table to diagram a shot. It's an awesome tool!

MM

nAz
09-13-2002, 01:36 PM
If i could run more then two ball id proberly try this...?
what do u think?? 5b 7b draw 2b slightdraw and then the money ball. fantasy /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

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%[r5D7%\F3M3%]J9D8%^j8F0
)END

09-13-2002, 02:02 PM
There has been a few responces here with regards to making the 5 and then rolling up to the 7 for a safety... my opinion on this is that it would be a horrible thing to do for a couple of reasons
a) you make the 5 and roll up to your 7 which is very buried
your opponent has 2 choices... to make a fairly simple kick on the 11 ball leaving you hooked
b) nudging your ball up to the 8 ball...fouling but leaving you no out shot... thus your opponent can then continue to hook you while knocking his balls loose fo the easy out

why make the 5 at all why not just roll it towards the pocket plugging the hole giving you more safety options later. ( although I sometimes make this mistake myself I never advocate making balls if you cant get out)

aggressive out: make the 5 with a controlled amount of right stun english taking the CB off the bottom rail into the 12 ball (worse come to worse 7 ball still plugs the hole if you miss the 5)... you need a bit of luck with regards to where the 8 ball ends up but in most cases i would say the 12 nudges the 8 then gets out of the way leaving the 8 back into that same corner pocket at the very worst. being a more aggressive player myself I think this would be my option as your opponent has one very big thing going for him... strength in numbers.... having only 2 balls left you are sitting in a pretty bad situation... taking an aggresive shot on the 5 at least give you a chance not to let your opponent back.

heater451
09-14-2002, 10:09 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: MikeM:</font><hr> Eight ball, you are solids. Can you show me how to get out?

MM

START(%A[3B2%Bs8C6%C[8\7%D[5B3%EM5W9%FB8[9%GD5D9%HH9D5%IN3I2%JR8S6
%Kr0O1%LF1E5%ML7F3%NW4D1%Ok7G9%Pp1X7)END<hr></blockquote>Okay, I set this up downstair, and tried getting out, by banking the 5 off the short-rail, aiming to split the 12-7. I ended up with four basic results:

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html

START(%A[3B2%Bt0C0%C[8\7%D[5B3%EM5W9%FB8[9%GD5D9%HH9D5%IN3I2%JR8S6
%Kr0O1%LF1E5%ML7F3%NW4D1%Ok7G9%Pp1X7%WN7X8%Xn8X7%Y D7F3%ZC6G8%]D1I3%^L8W2)END

1) The 7 went down, the 12 was knocked out enough to clear the path for the 8, and I was able to shoot the 5 into the same hole, and position for a shot on the 8.

2) The 7 went down, but the 5 pushed the 12 to the rail--still blocking the eight. However, the 5 blocked the 7, yet still had room to be cut out, if you got the chance. (I did this last night, and don't remember if I could clear the 12 when shooting the 5.

3) The 5 hit the 7 too early, and left both balls blocking the pocket, but still moved the 12 a good enough amount to clear shots on all the balls, in case you get to shoot again. The opponent will have problems with the blocked corner, and if you are left safe, the two balls in the corner are a somewhat large target to kick at.

4) Missed the 12-7 cluster completely. . . .


I also thought about cross-kicking the 5 to the 7's corner, or caroming the cue off the 5 to the corner (billiard shot), but figured that they were far too uncontrollable and risky, so didn't even experiment with them.

Something to think about. . . .



======================

nAz
09-14-2002, 11:23 AM
Heater set up the shoot and try the out i came up with, let me know if it works out

heater451
09-14-2002, 05:53 PM
I think MikeM said that the two should have been in the pocket, so it wouldn't be the same. However, I don't see how it won't work, barring a 'bad roll'. . . .

If I get a little time later, I'll try it with and without the two ball, and let you know.


===================

nAz
09-14-2002, 06:44 PM
opps! sorry ill check it again :0

heater451
09-14-2002, 07:57 PM
Another thing, I think the original setup of the 12-7 left the 7 wide open, but Mike changed it, closing up the line to the 7. This is why I went for the split, in my original post.

I tried simulating what you diagrammed, but I was having problems getting the speed right--I kept sending the cue ball into the corner with the 7-12. This sometimes sank the 7, but mostly it pushed it away from the pocket, and left the cue on the pocket side. A drag shot might work, but I was worried about the accuracy on the 5, so I just shot it straight up, as smoothly as I could, and wound up with what I described.



===================

nAz
09-14-2002, 08:14 PM
like i said fantasy lol
dude you have a table at home? Bastard!

MaineEAck
09-14-2002, 08:42 PM
Just after a quick look I would play the 7ball with the Cue ball (low-Left) and Leave a shot on the 5ball that went to the side rail and then back to the bottom rail....
But who am I to give advice..... ??? lol

MikeM
09-14-2002, 09:17 PM
Jordan,

I'm glad someone else would try the 7. That's what I tried in the game but it rattled. My biggest mistake was not going down to look at the 7. I was going to shoot the 5 and changed my mind and tried the 7 without taking the time to walk down and look. Lazy again.

MM

Rod
09-15-2002, 01:03 PM
Mike I set this up from memory last night. looking at the diagram today I see it was real close. I shot this 6 times, the first two I missed the 5 ball. It was then I made an amazing discovery, I needed to aim! Third time I got to deep and scratched off the 7. 4th time I actually hit the 7 and ended up with a perfect shot to the other corner and simple position to the 8.
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%Kr0O1%LH0G5%ML7F3%NW4D1%Ok7G9%PD9E2
)END

Well that was lucky and not the way I had in mind from the begining. The next two times I hit it near perfect and the way I thought about when I first saw your post. What's happening here is off the bottom rail and across the 12. The 12 just banks off the side rail and out of the way. The 7 and 8 never move. Cut the 7 in and send whitey 2 rails for position on the 8. That's all the time I gave it and just another way. Problem is when you need those near perfect strokes it might not happen!

stickman
09-16-2002, 08:28 AM
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%]D5[2%^L9X1
)END

START(
%A[3B2%Bs8C6%C[8\7%D[5B3%EB7\0%FB8[9%GD5D9%HH9D5%IN3I2%JR8S6
%Kr0O1%LF1E5%ML7F3%NW4D1%Ok7G9%PD3R9%UD6F7%VD3R1%W C8C6%XD3D4
%]H0L8%^D7E7%eB4b5
)END

START(
%A[3B2%Bs8C6%C[8\7%D[5B3%EB7\0%FB8[9%GB6B6%HH9D5%IN3I2%JR8S6
%Kr0O1%LF1E5%ML7F3%NW4D1%Ok7G9%PH6M5%Uo3J4%Vs1D2%]r4D2%^I3M3
%eB6b4
)END

START(
%A[3B2%Bt3B6%C[8\7%D[5B3%EB7\0%FB8[9%GB6B6%HH9D5%IN3I2%JR8S6
%Kr0O1%LF1E5%ML7F3%NW4D1%Ok7G9%Pn1K3%UO4C7%Vm3J9%W D6C9%XH0D5
%YJ4D7%ZN1C3%]H5N3%^I3M3%eB4a8
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This was my first thought. I suspected that it would be extremely difficult to actually execute. I tried it twice, and both times, I bumped the 12 ball up against the rail, blocking the pocket for the eight ball. Otherwise, I got very nearly the positions shown on my diagram. I was able to pocket all the balls, but when I got to the eight, all I could do was to bump it up, making the 12, and leaving the eight in front of the pocket. Depending on your opponent, you might, still win the match? Also, I only tried twice. If I had tried enough times, I think it is possible to clear the 12, with a very good shot.

09-17-2002, 12:30 AM
I'd concur with Downtown and Eric that a safe is the shot to play. You made the number 1 mistake in eight ball, you started to run out and messed up. Now, you're in a real hole. But your opponent has a tough rack, and this is one of those racks where knowing your opponent's weaknesses and playing a creative safety can really mess with his head.

You could try to use the five to complicate your opponent's options in breaking the cluster, but you'd probably end up hooked and kicking towards the 8.

I like this option. It's likely to block one or more of the 9, 13, and 14 from the top right pocket, make your opponent's run out even tougher and leaves no easy hook.

START(
%A[3B2%Bs8C6%C[8\7%D[5B3%EM5W9%FB8[9%GD5D9%HH9D5%IN3I2%JR8S6
%Kr0O1%LF1E5%ML7F3%NW4D1%Ok7G9%Pp1X7%UM6Z2%VN6X3%W O3X1%Xn9X9
%YD0G8%ZL9Z8%[b5E4%\C6R9%]D5S7%^L2W3
)END

Alternatively, this shot leaves your opponent no easy shot, and no straightforward safety option.

START(
%A[3B2%Bs8C6%C[8\7%D[5B3%EM5W9%FB8[9%GD5D9%HH9D5%IN3I2%JR8S6
%Kr0O1%LF1E5%ML7F3%NW4D1%Ok7G9%Pp1X7%UJ6Z6%VN6X3%W O3X1%Xn9X9
%YD6X1%ZI0Z7%[V1J7%\C6R9%]D5S7%^L2W3
)END

... unless the 12-7 carom is on, which would leave you in big trouble.

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%Kr0O1%LF1E5%ML7F3%NW4D1%Ok7G9%PD1V8%UC3C2%VC9D4%Y D9G0%ZC9U9
)END

If the carom is on, then this might be a good variant.

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%Kr0O1%LF1E5%MM2F8%NW4D1%Ok7G9%Pp1X7%UM6Z2%VN6X3%W O3X1%Xn9X9
%YD3O6%ZL9Z8%[b5E4%\C6R9%]D6S5%^L2W3%eC0a7%_J5D9%`G4I3%aD2N2
%bK7E2%cK2D7%dJ9C9
)END

You might be able to break out the 7-12 cluster without selling out like this

START(
%A[3B2%Bs8C6%C[3\5%D[5B3%EM5W9%FB8[9%GD5D9%HH9D5%IN3I2%JR8S6
%Kr0O1%LF1E5%MM2F8%NW4D1%Ok7G9%Pp1X7%UM6Z2%VN6X3%W O3X1%Xn9X9
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About the only aggressive option I'd consider is the drag-draw shot. You can't hit the 5 hard because there's no route to the 7. You can hit it soft, but you really need to get close to the 7 to give yourself a chance. So the drag-draw shot should give the angle and control to get to the 7.

START(
%A[3B2%C[3\5%D[5B3%EM5W9%FB8[9%GD5D9%HH9D5%IN3I2%JR8S6%Kr0O1
%LF1E5%MM2F8%NW4D1%Ok7G9%Pp1X7%UD6K0%VN6W4%WP2W5%X n9X9%]E3[1
%^L0X2%eB4b4
)END

Even here, I like the safety. If you use a very soft, max english throw shot, you can call safe, make the seven and leave this. Not too many people will get out. A lot will leave you an easy kick or bank at the 8.

START(
%A[3B2%C[3\5%D[5B3%EM5W9%FB8[9%GB9B9%HH9D5%IN3I2%JR8S6%Kr0O1
%LF9E9%MM2F8%NW4D1%Ok7G9%PE2E4%eB4b4
)END

or softly nudge the 7 off the cushion and leave this :

START(
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%Kr0O1%LE9F4%ML7F3%NW4D1%Ok7G9%PD1E1
)END

The 7 to 8 out is a hero shot. Something like :

START(
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%Kr0O1%LF1E5%ML7F3%NW4D1%Ok7G9%PC8I6%WD0G9%XD3E8%Y H2Z1%ZC6H9
%[K8S4%\H9Z9%eB6b4
)END

You've got way more safety options ... but you never know your luck.

P.S. Isn't RSB fun ?

Klutz