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Qtec
05-29-2011, 12:47 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

WASHINGTON -- Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said on Sunday that the Medicare reform plan authored by House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan would be "on the table" with respect to negotiations over raising the debt ceiling.

"We are going to discuss what ought to be done," McConnell said during an appearance on Meet The Press. "I can assure you that to get my vote to raise the debt ceiling, for whatever that is worth… Medicare will be a part of it." </div></div>

Wasn't there just a vote on the Ryan Plan? Didn't it get rejected?

What planet are they on?

Q......... link (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/29/mcconnell-ryan-medicare-plan-debt-ceiling_n_868569.html)

Sev
05-29-2011, 03:13 PM
The house controls the purse strings. No money flows without its approval.

They are in position to proverbially put a gun to the administration head.

They just have to have the spine to do it.

pooltchr
05-29-2011, 03:50 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The house controls the purse strings. No money flows without its approval.

They are in position to proverbially put a gun to the administration head.

They just have to have the spine to do it. </div></div>

Awww, you shouldn't have said that. They are going to take that as another "crosshairs" reference!

Steve

Sev
05-29-2011, 03:57 PM
Tough.

eg8r
05-29-2011, 08:57 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"We are going to discuss what ought to be done," McConnell said during an appearance on Meet The Press. "I can assure you that to get my vote to raise the debt ceiling, for whatever that is worth… Medicare will be a part of it." </div></div>Finally someone with a head on their shoulders. If you are going to raise your debt ceiling then you better do something about one of the top for expenditures to get it under control. Too bad the lefties are too dumb to understand such simple stuff.

eg8r

pooltchr
05-29-2011, 09:23 PM
I think they probably understand it...but are looking at an opportunity to use it as a political tool to try and get the senior citizen vote.

Steve

Soflasnapper
05-29-2011, 10:27 PM
That's not exactly true.

Or at least, the same is exactly true of the Senate.

It is the Congress together in both houses that controls the purse strings. The only extra power of the House is that spending bills must originate there.

Which means nothing. HR Bill X gets passed, S Bill Y gets passed, and then the House and Senate must do a reconciliation and get it passed by both houses of Congress.

Usually, as the Senate is more fractious and with greater powers for the minority, the House gets its bill's lunch eaten, and the Senate compromise prevails.

Or else we'd have seen a BTU tax during the Clinton years, Cap and Trade in the past few years, etc. The House often passes things that just don't make the final bill, if there is a final bill.

Soflasnapper
05-29-2011, 10:30 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"We are going to discuss what ought to be done," McConnell said during an appearance on Meet The Press. "I can assure you that to get my vote to raise the debt ceiling, for whatever that is worth… Medicare will be a part of it." </div></div>Finally someone with a head on their shoulders. If you are going to raise your debt ceiling then you better do something about one of the top for expenditures to get it under control. Too bad the lefties are too dumb to understand such simple stuff.

eg8r </div></div>

Clearly, however, one cannot solve such a large adjustment need in a rush, as would be required by the looming debt ceiling deadline.

Fact is, the national debt is going up, and must go up, not just in total, but also with regard to how large it is in relation to the gdp. Even if Ryan's full budget is passed, no balance in the budget is achieved for a dozen years or so (and as LWW always points out, even most balanced budget situations also see an increase in the national debt totals).

pooltchr
05-30-2011, 06:27 AM
So, rather than setting an arbitrary hard dollar amount as a debt limit, wouldn't it make more sense to make it a percent of GDP? That way, in good times, Washington can spend more on some of their special projects, but in tough times, would be forced to restrict spending to the bare essentials. Had that been the case over the years, we likely would not be in the mess we are in now.

I know the prevailing view of the left is to just increase taxes, get more money and keep on spending, but until our government is forced to live within their means, we aren't going to get out of this.

Bring down to a personal level. You can limit your personal spending to how much you make, and you will be ok. If an emergency comes up, you deal with it and cut back somewhere else to cover it. The other option is to whip out the credit card at every opportunity, but we all know what happens when option 2 is selected. People build so much debt that they are often forced into bankruptcy.

Why on earth would anyone think that the government is any different from a private individual when it comes to fiscal responsibility?

Steve

eg8r
05-30-2011, 07:11 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Clearly, however, one cannot solve such a large adjustment need in a rush, as would be required by the looming debt ceiling deadline.
</div></div>Prove you mean business by agreeing to drastic cuts in those accounts that cause the most debt to rise. What would be so bad to ask Medicare to take a 10 or 15% reduction like the rest of America? The problem is that there are probably people there that believe similar to you response that think because they cannot solve the problem shortly they might as well not even bother to try. Just keep raising the debt ceiling and continue the inefficiencies currently in place.

eg8r

Qtec
05-31-2011, 02:36 AM
What sacrifice has Goldman Sachs made? Or any other of those crooks?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-size: 26pt'>Goldman Sachs bankers to receive $15.3bn in pay and bonuses</span>

• Goldman Sachs revenues fall 13% but pay pot down only 5%
• Average pay drops as number of Goldman employees rises
• <u>'Compensation ratio' rises to 40% from 35.8% last year</u>



Jill Treanor
guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 19 January 2011 </div></div>

Its tough at the top. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Q

Gayle in MD
05-31-2011, 05:08 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What sacrifice has Goldman Sachs made? Or any other of those crooks?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-size: 26pt'>Goldman Sachs bankers to receive $15.3bn in pay and bonuses</span>

• Goldman Sachs revenues fall 13% but pay pot down only 5%
• Average pay drops as number of Goldman employees rises
• <u>'Compensation ratio' rises to 40% from 35.8% last year</u>



Jill Treanor
guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 19 January 2011 </div></div>

Its tough at the top. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Q </div></div>


Yes, when Bush and Paulson created TARP, they put absolutely no limits or demands on the banks that got the money. Crazy! They are right back to their usual thievery.

Until something is done about the unequal distribution of wealth through Republican social engineering, in this country, things will never get any better for the Middle Class, and hence, the economy will be stagnant, for all but the very wealthiest at the top.

When corporate CEO's scoop up all of the wealth, going from 35 dollars for every dollar an employee gets, to 350 dollars for every dollar, the economy will stay in the mess which Republican policies have created since Reagan years, with a brief respite under Clinton.

Until we invest in renewable fuels, education, and rebuilding the infrastructure, this country will continue to decline. Big Oil and Big Pharma, Health Insurance, health costs, etc., have been tightening the noose around the necsk of Americans, for decades, all the way back to Carter, who got blamed for what big oil did to our economy back in the seventies.

Republicans always want to do the very opposite, of what the country needs, because they are corporate pawns, from launching war in the wrong place, to creating a war on teachers and unions, at a time when the middle class is barely hanging on, and investing in education is the most important investment we should be making. Tightening economic expenditures, at the very time when we should have spent more on the stimulus, at least 1.3 trillion.

Republicans can't handle money, period.

No jobs trickled down, throughout eight damn years of the Bush Fiasco, yet they still refuse to accept that trickle down economics, is a failure.

When you look at where the wealth is going, and HAS been going all along, it is all going up to the top, with income and wages stagnant for the rest.

No economy can thrive, when the middle class is losing economic power for decades, and only the financial sector thrives, when they produce nothing.

No economy can thrive, when five or six huge monopolies of corporate interest, own our representatives, and given even more power to corrupt, compliments of the RW radical, activist fascist supreme court, and are the very cause of loss of American Jobs, in the first place.

G.

eg8r
05-31-2011, 08:42 AM
So you want to change the subject? Stop the stupidity. Reducing government debt by attacking the highest "bills" has nothing to do with Goldman Sachs' bankers receiving paychecks and bonuses.

eg8r

eg8r
05-31-2011, 08:43 AM
Why are you not discussing the subject matter of the original post? qtip goes off subject and you just bandied along.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
05-31-2011, 08:48 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So you want to change the subject? Stop the stupidity. Reducing government debt by attacking the highest "bills" has nothing to do with Goldman Sachs' bankers receiving paychecks and bonuses.

eg8r </div></div>

It has everything to do with it, when you're watching your country turn into a Fascist nation.

When you see one party, continue to take more, more, more from the suffering Middle Class, for their social engineering policies, so they can give billions more to thieves in the oil industry, the corrupt financial industry, Big Pharma, medical Insurance thugs, who drop people when they become ill, etc., etc., polluters who make people sick, it has everything to do with it.

G.

eg8r
05-31-2011, 09:00 AM
Sorry but you are flat wrong and as far from reality as you could get.

People like you are worried about what other people make rather than worry about how wasteful our tax dollars are being spent. Embarrasingly sad. I tend to believe it is jealously driven.

Our government needs to viciously attack those programs that cost us the most money and squeeze every ounce of inefficiencies out of those systems.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
05-31-2011, 09:09 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry but you are flat wrong and as far from reality as you could get.

People like you are worried about what other people make rather than worry about how wasteful our tax dollars are being spent. Embarrasingly sad. I tend to believe it is jealously driven.

Our government needs to viciously attack those programs that cost us the most money and squeeze every ounce of inefficiencies out of those systems.

eg8r </div></div>

So spending billions upon billions, in oil subsidies, for an industry which has broken all profit records, in the history of the world, by taking money that helps the poor and hungry, and the ill, is fine with you?

G.

Gayle in MD
05-31-2011, 09:13 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry but you are flat wrong and as far from reality as you could get.

People like you are worried about what other people make rather than worry about how wasteful our tax dollars are being spent. Embarrasingly sad. I tend to believe it is jealously driven.

Our government needs to viciously attack those programs that cost us the most money and squeeze every ounce of inefficiencies out of those systems.

eg8r </div></div>

Who wasted the tax dollars, Ed?

Bush didn't wast our tax dollars, fighting a war of choice, for Oil Contracts?

Bush and the Repiglican blank check Congress, which brike all former earmark records, didn't run up the unprecedented deficits, which in turn, made us impotent to deal with the crash?

Bush and Repiglican Greenspan, didn't ignore the warnings about the fraud in the financial industry, and pushh for the "Pwnership Society" which floamed the corruption on Wall St.?

You need to look at who the big spenders ad borrowers, who pushed us into the ditch, really were.

G.

LWW
05-31-2011, 10:38 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

WASHINGTON -- Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said on Sunday that the Medicare reform plan authored by House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan would be "on the table" with respect to negotiations over raising the debt ceiling.

"We are going to discuss what ought to be done," McConnell said during an appearance on Meet The Press. "I can assure you that to get my vote to raise the debt ceiling, for whatever that is worth… Medicare will be a part of it." </div></div>

Wasn't there just a vote on the Ryan Plan? Didn't it get rejected?

What planet are they on?

Q......... link (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/29/mcconnell-ryan-medicare-plan-debt-ceiling_n_868569.html) </div></div>

Lave du har nogen influenza i Engelsk at kunne forklare hen til jer hvad det vil sige?

LWW
05-31-2011, 10:41 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Clearly, however, one cannot solve such a large adjustment need in a rush, as would be required by the looming debt ceiling deadline.</div></div>

If not now, when?

We have been racing towards the brick wall since 1933. We are almost certainly going to hit the wall within 10 years. How much longer should we wait? How many generations of Americans should we enslave in debt to pay for the delay?

eg8r
05-31-2011, 11:18 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So spending billions upon billions, in oil subsidies, for an industry which has broken all profit records, in the history of the world, by taking money that helps the poor and hungry, and the ill, is fine with you?
</div></div>If you don't want to stick to the subject then keep your comments to yourself. I cannot continue to spend so much effort keeping you on subject and then have to also discuss your strawman arguments.

eg8r

eg8r
05-31-2011, 11:19 AM
Again, if you cannot keep on subject then keep your comments to yourself.

eg8r

pooltchr
05-31-2011, 12:13 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

So spending billions upon billions, in oil subsidies, for an industry which has broken all profit records, in the history of the world, by taking money that helps the poor and hungry, and the ill, is fine with you?

G. </div></div>

Those oil subsidies you keep crying about doen't even cover the costs to the oil companies to apply for land leases, exploration permits, and drilling permits. Our government continues to extort money from the oil companies, dangling the carrot of oil drilling in front of them, as the collect huge fees and make them jump through legal hoops with no promise of being able to make any return on their investment.

Shell oil has paid over 3 billion to the US government for permits for drilling that have resulted in exactly zero new wells being drilled over the past two years.

During that same time, they have managed to start 400 new wells in other countries. Now, tell us how serious this administration is about developing domestic energy sources and reducing our depending on foreign energy.

Steve

Sev
05-31-2011, 07:56 PM
There is a wonker among us Steve.

Sev
05-31-2011, 08:05 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's not exactly true.

Or at least, the same is exactly true of the Senate.

It is the Congress together in both houses that controls the purse strings. The only extra power of the House is that spending bills must originate there.

Which means nothing. HR Bill X gets passed, S Bill Y gets passed, and then the House and Senate must do a reconciliation and get it passed by both houses of Congress.

Usually, as the Senate is more fractious and with greater powers for the minority, the House gets its bill's lunch eaten, and the Senate compromise prevails.

Or else we'd have seen a BTU tax during the Clinton years, Cap and Trade in the past few years, etc. The House often passes things that just don't make the final bill, if there is a final bill. </div></div>

However currently the house has the stance, "This shall not pass".

Therefore the buck will not move.

Qtec
05-31-2011, 11:40 PM
You were the one who said,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What would be so bad to ask Medicare to take a <span style='font-size: 17pt'> 10 or 15% reduction like the rest of America</span>? </div></div>

What America are you talking about?


Q......Not Wall St. Not the banks. Not the highest earners.


BTW, in Ryan's budget, the top tax rate would be lowered to 25%!!!! Some sacrifice.

LWW
06-01-2011, 04:43 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> You were the one who said,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What would be so bad to ask Medicare to take a <span style='font-size: 17pt'> 10 or 15% reduction like the rest of America</span>? </div></div>

What America are you talking about?


Q......Not Wall St. Not the banks. Not the highest earners.


BTW, in Ryan's budget, the top tax rate would be lowered to 25%!!!! Some sacrifice. </div></div>

And, again, your ignorance is simply amazing.

The Ryan plan also eliminates deductions, which forces all income to be taxed.

Oh ... the banksters and Wall Street are behind dear leader, but you aren't allowed to know such things.

Uw dorp genaamd, ze willen hun idioot terug.

Gayle in MD
06-01-2011, 06:38 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So spending billions upon billions, in oil subsidies, for an industry which has broken all profit records, in the history of the world, by taking money that helps the poor and hungry, and the ill, is fine with you?
</div></div>If you don't want to stick to the subject then keep your comments to yourself. I cannot continue to spend so much effort keeping you on subject and then have to also discuss your strawman arguments.

eg8r </div></div>

LOL, typical.

G.

Gayle in MD
06-01-2011, 06:44 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> You were the one who said,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What would be so bad to ask Medicare to take a <span style='font-size: 17pt'> 10 or 15% reduction like the rest of America</span>? </div></div>

What America are you talking about?


Q......Not Wall St. Not the banks. Not the highest earners.


BTW, in Ryan's budget, the top tax rate would be lowered to 25%!!!! Some sacrifice. </div></div>

We already have a Health Care Plan which lowers costs in Medicare.

It has good structure, for eliminating fraud, which, BTW, is mostly due to CEO fraud, in the Medical, HCI, and Pharmaceutical, industries.

Instead, the right votes those CEO's thieves in the Medical Industry, who commit fraud, into governorships! Rick Scott, Florida, is now writing up laws, for more fraud. Drug Testing? LMAO!

Stunning ignorance, in FloriDUH.

G.

eg8r
06-01-2011, 08:27 AM
Yes you idiot I am the one that said that. It has nothing to do with Goldman Sachs. What it does have to do with are corporations all over America that cut back budget every year to make sure they are able to make ends meet. Quit throwing up strawman arguments and putting words in my mouth.


eg8r

Gayle in MD
06-01-2011, 08:37 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes you idiot I am the one that said that. It has nothing to do with Goldman Sachs. What it does have to do with are corporations all over America that cut back budget every year to make sure they are able to make ends meet. Quit throwing up strawman arguments and putting words in my mouth.


eg8r </div></div>

Corporations all over America, are outsourcing American jobs, polluting the environement, hiding their money off shore, making people sick, paying off Repiglicans to go after the poor, the ill, the old, the Middle Class, so they can continue to steal from the National wealth, for their exorbitant BONUSES, WHILE THEY BUY THEIR FELLOW CORPORATE THIEVES WHO PROTECT THEM WHO ARE ALSO GAMING THE SYSTEM!

Take a good hard look at what your own Governor is doing!!! Why do you think he's at the bottom of the approval ratings in this country???? He's a crook! AND he was a proven crook, before FloriDUH voter him in!


Corporate CEO pay, went from 35$ to $1.00 every American worker made, to over $350 to $1.00, every American Worker made, in the last several decades of Fascist Repiglicna policies!!!

You are focused on the wrong people. It's not at all what you think.

Americans pay taxes, everytime they turn around, regardless of their income level, they all pay taxes, other then the illegals under the table, which, REpiglicans protected the business owners from paying high fines for, for years.


Open up your eyes!

Corporate colusion with government, against the common interests of the country, IS FASCISM.

"Only the little people pay income taxes"

The Queen OF Mean....

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

No country survives and flourishes, when only the top one and a half percent, are actually taking more and more of the nation's wealth.

Trickle down did not produce jobs, for eight years of the Bush Administration.

This president has created more public sector jobs, than Bush, and all in the midst of a Bushwrecked economic CRASH!

We would have seen even better results from the stimulus, by now, if Repiglicans hadn't obstructed everything!!!

The most respected economoists agreed, the stimulus should have been over a trillion, like 1.3 to 1.8....

The beloved Banks, and financial institutions, got theirs, then refused to loosen credit, to turn around the economic stagnation, instead they stuffed it into their bonuses, and kept on trucking!

Who voted against legislation to limit their bonuses???

G.




G.

eg8r
06-01-2011, 08:52 AM
Open your eyes gayle but corporations all over America deal with budget issues and they cut back as needed to meet the bottom line. Our government does not do that EVER. They go back to the well and steal a little more. Surely you are not living life with your eyes closed so you must be happy to throw your money away, well at least whatever is left to owe after legally taking all the tax breaks possible.

eg8r

Qtec
06-01-2011, 09:16 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes you idiot I am the one that said that. </div></div>

How can I be an idiot when I quoted you correctly, moron?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It has nothing to do with Goldman Sachs. What it does have to do with are corporations all over America that cut back budget every year to make sure they are able to make ends meet.</div></div>

What does that have to do with the budget cuts, moron?

NOTHING.

Q

eg8r
06-01-2011, 09:53 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How can I be an idiot when I quoted you correctly, moron?
</div></div>Because idiot, you said that I referenced Goldman Sachs, yet when you quoted me Goldman Sachs was no where to be found. If you refuse to use a little common sense then crawl back under your rock.

eg8r