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Doctor_D
09-16-2002, 06:56 AM
Good morning Billiards Digest CCB Webmaster:

To say that I enjoy the Billiards Digest Discussion Forum, more affectionately known as the CCB, would prove to be an understatement. It is for this reason, coupled with the fact that we are now beginning to experience more then our share of "garbage" which is prevalent on other sites, that I would like to see the following instituted A.S.A.P.!

Anonymous postings should be prohibited! Anyone interested in posting should register, an alias for a screen name would be acceptable as long as information was maintained by Billiards Digest as to who belongs to any given alias, and be authenticated through a verifiable E-Mail address. Too damn many individuals, posting anonymously, are attacking other CCB contributors as well as posting statements and/or opinions that are not suitable for the CCB. If an individual can not post under their true identity, or an alias which can be traced back to their true identity by the CCB, then they should be prohibited from posting.


Dr. D.

This is an "edited" copy of an E-Mail I have issued to the Billiards Digest WebMaster. Whether you agree with my position or not, I would like all of the CCB regulars to share their opinions with the WebMaster as well. We have a great little community and forum here, let's not lose it!

Dr. D.

bluewolf
09-16-2002, 07:01 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Doctor_D:</font><hr>
Good morning Billiards Digest CCB Webmaster:

To say that I enjoy the Billiards Digest Discussion Forum, more affectionately known as the CCB, would prove to be an understatement. It is for this reason, coupled with the fact that we are now beginning to experience more then our share of "garbage" which is prevalent on other sites, that I would like to see the following instituted A.S.A.P.!

Anonymous postings should be prohibited! Anyone interested in posting should register, an alias for a screen name would be acceptable as long as information was maintained by Billiards Digest as to who belongs to any given alias, and be authenticated through a verifiable E-Mail address. Too damn many individuals, posting anonymously, are attacking other CCB contributors as well as posting statements and/or opinions that are not suitable for the CCB. If an individual can not post under their true identity, or an alias which can be traced back to their true identity by the CCB, then they should be prohibited from posting.


Dr. D.

This is an "edited" copy of an E-Mail I have issued to the Billiards Digest WebMaster. Whether you agree with my position or not, I would like all of the CCB regulars to share their opinions with the WebMaster as well. We have a great little community and forum here, let's not lose it!

Dr. D.
<hr></blockquote>

good points dr d. if anonymous cant post, then is there anyway they can still read posts to see if they want to join?

we will have to see what unfolds.

Doctor_D
09-16-2002, 07:22 AM
Good morning Bluewolf:

Unregistered visitors would be entitled and welcome to visit, lurk and read the CCB. However, absent a registration according to the above recommendations, I do not believe they should be eligible to post. We, as CCB regulars and/or registered users, need not know who they are. However, the WebMaster and Billiards Digest would have access to the information. Then, if their posts become offensive and/or in violation of the BD CCB terms and conditions of use, the BD CCB WebMaster could address the issue with the individual and/or revoke their rights to posting.

Dr. D.

bluewolf
09-16-2002, 07:34 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Doctor_D:</font><hr> Good morning Bluewolf:

Unregistered visitors would be entitled and welcome to visit, lurk and read the CCB. However, absent a registration according to the above recommendations, I do not believe they should be eligible to post. We, as CCB regulars and/or registered users, need not know who they are. However, the WebMaster and Billiards Digest would have access to the information. Then, if their posts become offensive and/or in violation of the BD CCB terms and conditions of use, the BD CCB WebMaster could address the issue with the individual and/or revoke their rights to posting.

Dr. D.
<hr></blockquote>

morning drd.people have been bit**ing about this anon stuff for a long time. i am proud of you for taking action.

i tried setting up another alias, which was, silverbullet.the system allowed me to set it up with only an email address, no name.it is the same email i use for bluewolf,but i originally set up bluewolf with the ccb under my aol addie, so maybe that is why it let me do it. i dont think you can have 2 set up for same email. not sure.

since you have started the ball rolling on this, maybe the board will make some changes so that more has to be listed than just an email.so right now, the board has 'silverbullet'listed under my mindspring address. but if you open up the profile, the email and name are not listed.

lots to think about. how to protect the group against vicious people and protect the individual's anonymity at the same time

bw aka sb

Chris Cass
09-16-2002, 07:35 AM
Hi Dr. D.,

Did you see what Bluewolf replied? I don't care too much for her, as you can plainly see. I just can't believe the questions she asks. LOL

I'm not one to laugh at another persons shortcomings, because I too have a lot also. I guess I'm too angry with her to overlook this. I requested the webmaster to throw her, WW and Downtown off the board. They won't but all the same, that's how I feel. I guess I'm upset with the way they treated Fran.

Chris(Cass)Aiardo

Doctor_D
09-16-2002, 07:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Chris Cass:</font><hr> Hi Dr. D.,

Did you see what Bluewolf replied? I don't care too much for her, as you can plainly see. I just can't believe the questions she asks. LOL

I'm not one to laugh at another persons shortcomings, because I too have a lot also. I guess I'm too angry with her to overlook this. I requested the webmaster to throw her, WW and Downtown off the board. They won't but all the same, that's how I feel. I guess I'm upset with the way they treated Fran.

Chris(Cass)Aiardo <hr></blockquote>


Good morning:

While I do respect everyone's opinions, even though I might very well disagree with their position, I would request that all postings to this thread, due to the nature of the issue, remain ON TOPIC.

Dr. D.

Chris Cass
09-16-2002, 09:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Doctor_D:</font><hr> Good morning:

While I do respect everyone's opinions, even though I might very well disagree with their position, I would request that all postings to this thread, due to the nature of the issue, remain ON TOPIC.

Dr. D. <hr></blockquote>

Your absolutly right Dr. D. as usual My bad. I just feel I had to vent. I'm not one to pull any punches and feel bad about the entire mess.

Sincerely,

C.C.

09-16-2002, 09:33 AM
Good morning, Dr. D. I wish I could agree with you on this, but I just can't.

There's a great saying that goes, "You can't legislate stupidity." Requiring people to identify themselves, especially with only an alias, will not stop the influx of assinine posts to this forum.

In addition, I am of the opinion that anonymous postings can sometimes spur debate where none might have been possible without them. Increasingly, this board has taken on some fairly incendiary topics, and it's not realistic or even sensible (IMO) to always put a name to a controversial post.

I have never posted anonymously, but I believe in the right to do so. There are many people very closely tied to the upper echelons of the industry who simply cannot speak freely about problems they are seeing. This is not difficult to appreciate. But isn't it better that now, they have a forum to disclose these issues without fear of retribution?

Would the Watergate scandal have been broken had Deep Throat not been assured anonymity? How many government sources are quoted in newspapers, speaking on "condition of anonymity"? Sure, these situations are more important than the issues we usually discuss, but the principles are the same.

Just the way I see it.

- Steve

09-16-2002, 10:02 AM
On CCB, you either have an open community or you do not. There are dozens of rules and guidelines I can think of that may make CCB a better place, but those are just my opinion and I would hate to have them imposed on the masses.

In an open forum, the majority will eventually rule. Those that find benefit will stay and those that do not will leave--that is the nature of freedom.

I personally find it helpful to view CCB as a newspaper or magazine. There is a lot of stuff that is of no interest, but you simply overlook that to get the stuff that is of interest. You can't please all of the people all of the time--don't waste your time trying.

09-16-2002, 11:08 AM
Dr. D,
As I was reading your post, I got the feeling it was written by someone who is accustomed to being in a position of power, but is powerless in the current situation. Similar to Fran's morality post a while back, we have one person trying to dictate the direction the CCB should take.
Please understand, no matter how strongly you feel regarding this subject, this is a community. Many different people from as many different backgrounds come to visit. Some make valuable pool related contributions. Some contribute general fodder. Some just like to cause trouble.
The trouble makers can definately be handled by ignoring them. I've seen it work in the past. Once a person makes several posts which are not even viewed, they'll get the hint and move on. The only way a goofy, non-pool related thread becomes large is because the posters want it to. The same goes for flame wars. That game is no fun without an opponent.
Limiting the CCB to resistered posters WILL NOT WORK! It is always too easy to get registration through another name and email address.

P.S. I almost posted this annonymously because you are well liked by the group. Anyone who doesn't stand behind you on this issue stands a chance of being shunned by a good portion of the group. Hmmmm, maybe there's a reason annonymous posts are allowed.

Mr Ingrate
09-16-2002, 11:13 AM
Dr. D.

You can get a free e-mail address from hotmail or a number of other sources. Having a valid e-mail address means nothing. While I use my own name on any board I post on, I don't expect others to do the same. I have no problem respecting their privacy. Hell, most of the idiot posts come from registered members anyway. Myself included.

09-16-2002, 11:19 AM
I figured I'd better get registered!
I posted anonymously in the "Dumb Mistakes" thread, I'm the one who rattled the 8 after clearing the table.
I planned on registering anyway so, here I am. I've been on a hiatus of sorts for about 10 years and boy is my game off! /ccboard_2/images/icons/wink.gif Anyway, getting back into it, love the board! Have a nice day!
Chris

griffith_d
09-16-2002, 11:26 AM
I think posters that hide among the others that have no identity are either too scared to show themselves by their repeated idiot remarks or downgrading of other posters, or they feel that they protect themselves from retaliatory remarks.

Either way, I feel that those kinds of posters should follow the old rule:

"It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, then to open it and remove all doubt".

Griff

09-16-2002, 11:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: griffith_d:</font><hr> I think posters that hide among the others that have no identity are either too scared to show themselves by their repeated idiot remarks or downgrading of other posters, or they feel that they protect themselves from retaliatory remarks.

Either way, I feel that those kinds of posters should follow the old rule:

"It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, then to open it and remove all doubt".

Griff <hr></blockquote>

used to agree but don't anymore since q-guy expressed some pretty candid opinions of cuemakers which he couldn't have done were his real name known.

dan

TomBrooklyn
09-16-2002, 11:53 AM
The number of anonymous posts are relatively small. Of those, the great majority are reasonably well phrased legitimate questions or comments.

Anonymous posters are easy targets to pick on. Some registered posters have begun to critisize and even insult anonymous posters whose viewpoints they disagree with, just because they're anonymous.

Just having a registered name does not make your posts more interesting.

Over ninety per cent of the hoopla comes from registered posters. Not that that's a bad thing. I like hoopla. It fills in the gaps between the technical and pool informative posts.

Anonymous is being used as a scapegoat as to why this board is not "better."
However, getting rid of anonymous is not going to make this board better.

The sum of the contributions from all posters will determine the quality of this site.

There are a few anonymous posts that are inflamatory.
It is only due to their nature and the nature of the readers that these tend to stick out and be remembered.

They tend not to bother me because I have little trouble ignoring them. In comparison to situations in real life situations, their little trolling cries for attention seem rather unimportant to me.

It is the plethora of responses they often get that is hard to ignore. The reaction to the anonymous posts is in great disproportion to the actual problem, and is in fact what magnifies what is really a small issue at this time on this board.

=TB=

stickman
09-16-2002, 12:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: DragonSlayer:</font><hr> The trouble makers can definately be handled by ignoring them. I've seen it work in the past. Once a person makes several posts which are not even viewed, they'll get the hint and move on. The only way a goofy, non-pool related thread becomes large is because the posters want it to. The same goes for flame wars. That game is no fun without an opponent. <hr></blockquote>

I agree.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: DragonSlayer:</font><hr> Limiting the CCB to resistered posters WILL NOT WORK! It is always too easy to get registration through another name and email address.
<hr></blockquote>

I'm not sure I agree here. I was a moderator on a very large discussion forum. Registration was required to post. It didn't eliminate all the BS, but I think it reduced it. Some posters will post things anonomously that they would never post otherwise. If you can't stand behind your thoughts, it's probably best to keep them to yourself. Others will speak their mind regardless. Those that repeatedly stirred up trouble were banned. Yep, some were smart enough to reregister, but it didn't take long to identify them. Registration didn't stifle the growth of the forum. There was good information there, and the forum was pretty orderly. There were about 14,000 registered members the last I knew, and the forum was rapidly growing to be one of the largest of it's type. So I would say that registration can work. I'm not trying to be arguementative, just offering another viewpoint.

Whether registration is required or not, I'll still be here. I'll ignore the BS, and I'll lurk if the BS becomes too much for me.

09-16-2002, 12:52 PM
I am comforted and reassured by the fairness and integrity of posts on this issue by Steve Lipsky, CueBald, CarolNYC, DragonSlayer, and TomBrooklyn. ( I almost feel that you are more than anonymous names on a computer screen and that I know you. He,He!)I am frightened by the larger implications (beyond this board)of the attitude expressed by Dr.D. You should be ashamed of yourself.(That reminds me; my country club dues need to be sent in!)

PoolFan
09-16-2002, 02:14 PM
I believe that there is a place for Anonymous posters on this site. The internet has opened the door for individuals to be anonymous and faceless. People are sometimes embrassed or do not have a confidence level to address certain topics without being anonymous. Anonymous posters facilitates open and honest opinons and attracts more individuals into the mix.

Being anonymous can be a very feeling experience. This is why the Catholic religon allows for confession to be behind a curtain. People are not as open without the curtain.

The downside to this approach is we have to deal with the occassional annoying, hateful and sometimes ignorant Anonymous posters who do not share high ethical standards of the regular posters. But I am willing to weed through those posts, because sometimes I find an Anonymous poster who has an insightful opinion.

Hell, I find some regular posters who are not anonymous just as offensive as some anonymous posters.

09-16-2002, 04:56 PM
this is the first time, anywhere on any message board, i've ever seen a call to arms against anonymous posters or anyone.

Doctor_D
09-16-2002, 05:08 PM
Good evening:

Thank-you; one and all, for sharing your comments with me and, although indirectly, with the CCB Administrator. Albeit an impromptu and unofficial survey, an overall appreciation for your sentiments has been received.

Thank-you...

Dr. D.

09-16-2002, 05:59 PM
the availability of ip addresses to the public, as they are here at ccb, borders on invasion of privacy!!! this was pointed out to me by another webmaster who was surprised by the display of everyone's ip addy.

the effect of this is no more evident than in the sudden onslaught of ccb'ers witch hunt to track down identities thru the ip addresses shown at each post.

the result has been or could be, as noted by a few here, that this can EASILY lead to mistaken identities as well.

and also, the webmaster ALREADY has the ability to ban an ip address. so,,,why is it important that you "know where a poster lives"?

09-16-2002, 07:56 PM
Some anonymous posters contribute actual pool related information with substance. A few of the more recent wannabes post nothing but coffee clutch chit chat and hide behind quasi titles or agendas and go out of their way to promote their beliefs or lifestyle on everyone here. Who cares if you are the high priest of whatever business or lifestyle? Wave your flag for those issues in the appropriate chat rooms. Do you know anything about pool? Other than taking lessons, do you have anything to offer that is remotely pool related? There are anonymous posters who have a lifetime of wonderful stories and experiences to share that are pool related. Does it matter that you cannot attach a name or label to their contribution? If it does, that might be more about you than them, if you catch my drift. A few posters here feel they must respond to every post with a meaningless comment. Ironic that these few posters have not played the game long enough to break in a cube of Masters chalk yet they have something to say about everything but their posts rarely have anything to do with the game. It is understandable that most of the old timers have chosen to lurk rather than engage in the phoney babble that has become so prevalent. This is simply one person's observation and it doesn't matter one way or the other if anyone agrees. How I sign my name does not matter. I could sign it
Ralph Jones, Drug Addict
Ralph Jones, PHD
Ralph Jones, MD.
When the game is set and the money is posted, it would be nice if you could play a little pool.
Signed, Lurker

09-16-2002, 08:58 PM
Slayer...I concur. The mere unrest from the recent anonymous posting if reacted upon by enacting "law changes" such as limitations on who can and can't post here due to registration(easily concocted, BTW) seems to be a foolish action. No, a vote to steer the CCB into only registered guests would only slow down the timid, and fuel the "clique" growing within, which in turn would spurn the fresh, less talented players from staying. Until things become lots worse,,,I say keep it just as it is. I've learned to not read an anonymous post, that's the simplest avenue for the educated minds residing here(IMO.) sid

09-16-2002, 09:00 PM

jjinfla
09-17-2002, 07:07 AM
I tend to agree with Lurker. But rather than ban Anon I would like to see a limit of the number of posts an individual can make a day. I don't know what the compulsion is to be one of the top posters here. As for picking on Fran. Well, I can understand why, she just makes it so easy. But I missed her morality post so if anyone knows it please let me know what it is so I can look at it. Sounds like it would add a little humor to my day. She, and a lot of posters here, should remember the old saying, "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen." LOL. As for Patrick I haven't opened one of his posts in so long I forgot why I don't open them, but I do see that whenever he posts he gets a lot of hits so that tells me that people look forward to his posts, whether they want to admit it or not. Jake~~~noticed that my level of play has really improved lately. Seems all the parts have come together. Unfortunately, my desire to play has dropped drastically.

Vagabond
09-17-2002, 09:18 PM
Howdy Dr.Jones,
Are u ,by any chance, from SanAngelo,Texas?( for others: san Angelo is a small town in West texas)
U made excellant points. what is next? Do I have to give my social security number and my girl friend`s telephone number?cheers
Vagabond

09-18-2002, 10:14 AM
Well Shi! I used to be able to just Type in my User Name. Now they axed that too. Ooooo. k. where do you sign up. St ~hates that a few bad Anomanisis give us good Anonomisses a bad name~