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Gayle in MD
06-24-2011, 09:38 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/24/opinion/24fri1.html?_r=1&ref=opinion

Editorial
Their Temper Tantrum
Published: June 23, 2011
Congressional Republicans, who played a major role in piling up the government’s unsustainable debt in the first place, have thrown a tantrum and walked out of the debt limit talks. This bit of grandstanding has brought the nation closer to the financial crisis that Republicans have been threatening for weeks. But, at least now, their real goals are in sharp focus.
<span style='font-size: 17pt'>
The two Republicans in the talks, Representative Eric Cantor, the House majority leader, and Senator Jon Kyl, the minority whip, had no intention of actually negotiating. Negotiations require listening to those on the other side and giving them something they want in exchange for some of your goals.

It has been obvious all along that cutting government services alone is not a solution to either the budget deficit or the mounting national debt. The Democrats, at least, acknowledged that reality at the bargaining table by saying that along with the cuts the Republicans cherish, there would have to be increases in revenue — an end to unnecessary tax loopholes for corporations or the rich.

Those demands were modest — too modest — and Vice President Joseph Biden Jr., who is leading the talks, said they were making progress. But any compromise at all proved too much for the Republicans.

Mr. Cantor said that because he and the House would not support a tax increase, he was walking out of the talks until President Obama “resolved” the tax issue himself with House Speaker John Boehner. In other words, Mr. Cantor and Mr. Kyl preferred striking a Tea Party pose to the hard work of reaching a deal. </span>The negotiators say they have essentially agreed on about $2 trillion in spending cuts over the next 10 years, which could be acceptable if they are phased in gradually and exempt the nation’s most vulnerable. But Democrats in the talks say that in exchange for agreeing to those cuts, they asked for some balancing increases in revenues. Their proposals were not to raise tax rates, but rather to end credits like those for oil and gas companies. One Democratic negotiator, Representative Chris Van Hollen of Maryland, said they also want to curb tax deductions for the very rich.

It was inevitable that Mr. Obama, Mr. Boehner and Senate leaders would have to write the final chapter of these talks, and Republicans were at least correct in asking for a more public role from the president, who has shied away from leadership here. Mr. Boehner has, so far, limited his opposition to tax rate increases, and he may prove more willing to accept reality and the need for revenue than Mr. Cantor.

But at least 11 hard-line Senate Republicans have already said they will oppose any deal that does not include a balanced-budget amendment — a nonstarter for Democrats — and Mitch McConnell, the Senate Republican leader, said this week that all revenue increases are the same as raising taxes and are unacceptable.

The deadline for raising the debt limit or facing a default is Aug. 2. Republicans cannot walk away from their responsibility to pay the bills and keep the economy out of further crisis.



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/24/opinion/24fri1.html?_r=1&ref=opinion

eg8r
06-24-2011, 10:20 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Negotiations require listening to those on the other side and giving them something they want in exchange for some of your goals.
</div></div>While the statement is true the author is very one sided in his argument. Cantor and co. were unwilling to budge just as much as the Dems were unwilling to budge. While I don't agree with them walking out this is no different than those idiot Dems running away from their state.

eg8r

moblsv
06-24-2011, 01:43 PM
negotiate? You can't negotiate with extremists.

I am so disappointed that the Democrats have allowed this debate to be about governments spending. We can't solve the problem by continuing the same practices that created the problem.

Sev
06-24-2011, 01:46 PM
I am all for letting the date pass for raising the debt ceiling.

After all its not the first time the USA has defaulted and we are still here.

LWW
06-24-2011, 03:51 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: moblsv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">negotiate? You can't negotiate with extremists.

I am so disappointed that the Democrats have allowed this debate to be about governments spending. We can't solve the problem by continuing the same practices that created the problem. </div></div>

How do you get it without ever actually getting it?

LWW
06-24-2011, 03:54 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am all for letting the date pass for raising the debt ceiling.

After all its not the first time the USA has defaulted and we are still here. </div></div>

The last time was under the fascist Franklin Delano Roosevelt ... another of the leftist godkings.

Sev
06-24-2011, 03:59 PM
Actually I thought it was under Nixon in 71.

LWW
06-24-2011, 04:13 PM
Nope, Nixon just led us to get off the gold standard.

In 1933 FDR and the democrook congress went on a money printing spree not unlike the recent hedonistic binge.

Holders of WWI bonds, which were specifically worded to repay the investor in gold bullion, started cashing in their bonds.

FDR and the democrooks told them that they were only going to be repaid in depreciated greenbacks ... take it or leave it.

Look at it this way ... suppose you took out a $10K bond when gold was $33 an ounce and the wording said that you would receive 606 ounces of gold 15 years later as repayment of the 303 ounces you had lent Uncle Sam.

Well, today you go to cash in thinking your 606 ounces is worth a little bit north of $900K due to the Fed's printing of fiat money ... and when you showed up they paid you double your $10K initial investment not in gold as the bond specified, but double the initial $10K in $20K of fiat money.

Gayle in MD
06-29-2011, 04:40 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: moblsv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">negotiate? You can't negotiate with extremists.

I am so disappointed that the Democrats have allowed this debate to be about governments spending. We can't solve the problem by continuing the same practices that created the problem. </div></div>

Exactly my friend, but, I think it's obvious to any thinking individual, that Repiglicans don't want to solve our problems, or should I say, the problems THEY created with their own spending while warring, and ignoring threats, as they failed to regulate ANY corporate infractions, including the grand theft which was going on on Wall Street, from 2003 through late 2006.

Recovering from the multi disasters left by the Bush Neocons, was never going to be easy, as all experts stated when the market crashed, however, their main goal since, has been to suck up all of the stimulus money they could, while they simultaneously criticized the President for helping them in their states.

If you look at the Repiglicans who are yapping non stop about the deficit, which, BTW, THEY created, you'll see, the loudest yappers now, were the biggest spenders under Bush, McConnell, among them!


In the real world, people understand, in hard times, one must invest in a brighter future, and bring in more money, by creating jobs, which President Obama has been far more successful in doing, already, and in the struggle of two Bush Wars, and the economic collapse annd loss of jobs under Bush, more jobs in the private sector, than George Bush could manage in eight years.

Repigs, don't want that brighter future to emerge, they can only aim to buy back power, with money from the same corporate thieves who have been stealing from all of the rest of us, like Koch Brothers, who want even more of the pie than they've been stealing from the rest of us all along, byt ONLY at the expense of those they have stolen from the most, the Middle Class, the old, the hungry, the ill, all of those who can least afford it. Repiglicans are destroying America, and it's been going on for thirty years,
G.

LWW
06-29-2011, 05:06 AM
This thread is yet another example of how the party elite can lead the mob around by the nose, simply personally an issue and giving them some hate filled images ... it doesn't take much to get the mob to ignore the truth. They simply feel they must fit in with the rest of the mob.

This forum, again, has it's own little Orwellian "TWO MINUTES HATE" moment.