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Sev
06-24-2011, 06:41 PM
The country need lots more of this. Keep rolling everything back so that working for the government is not very enticing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/24/nyregi...ner=rss&emc=rss (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/24/nyregion/nj-legislature-moves-to-cut-benefits-for-public-workers.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss)

<span style="color: #000000"><span style='font-size: 20pt'>New Jersey Lawmakers Approve Benefits Rollback for Work Force</span>
By RICHARD PÉREZ-PEÑA
Published: June 23, 2011


TRENTON — New Jersey lawmakers on Thursday approved a broad rollback of benefits for 750,000 government workers and retirees, the deepest cut in state and local costs in memory, in a major victory for Gov. Chris Christie and a once-unthinkable setback for the state’s powerful public employee unions.
Enlarge This Image
Rich Schultz/Associated Press


The Assembly passed the bill 46 to 32, as Republicans and a few Democrats defied raucous protests by thousands of people whose chants, vowing electoral revenge, shook the State House. Leaders in the State Senate said their chamber, which had already passed a slightly different version of the bill, would approve the Assembly version on Monday. Mr. Christie, a Republican, was expected to sign the measure into law quickly.

In a statement released after the vote, Mr. Christie said, “We are putting the people first and daring to touch the third rail of politics in order to bring reform to an unsustainable system.”

The legislation will sharply increase what state and local workers must contribute for their health insurance and pensions, suspend cost-of-living increases to retirees’ pension checks, raise retirement ages and curb the unions’ contract bargaining rights. It will save local and state governments $132 billion over the next 30 years, by the administration’s estimate, and give the troubled benefit systems a sounder financial footing, mostly by shifting costs onto workers.

While states around the country have moved to pare labor costs and limit the power of unions, the move is all the more striking here, in a Democratic-leaning state where Democrats control both houses of the Legislature and union membership is among the highest in the country. Most Democratic legislators opposed the benefits reductions, but their leaders voted in favor of the changes, exposing deep, longstanding rifts in the party that lawmakers say could weaken it in coming elections.

The fight over benefits reflected both Mr. Christie’s ability to exploit the divisions among Democrats, through his alliances with more conservative Democratic party bosses and legislators, and his success at using the public-sector unions as a foil in his drive to shrink government spending. It has also allowed a nationally known but highly polarizing governor to claim the mantle of bipartisan conciliation, telling audiences that New Jersey is setting an example that other states and the federal government should follow.

On Thursday, thousands of people wearing union T-shirts and buttons filled the Assembly visitors’ gallery, the State House corridors and, in a high-decibel protest, the sidewalks, lawns and streets around the building. A procession down State Street included a hearse draped with a banner saying “The Soul of the Democratic Party,” and organizers with bullhorns led the crowd in chants of “We’ll remember in November!” and “Kill the bill!”

Unions have been broadcasting advertisements attacking Democrats who support the bill — particularly Stephen M. Sweeney, the Senate president — and this week union leaders have spoken of the difference between “real Democrats and Christie Democrats,” pointedly including in the latter group Mr. Sweeney, who also is an official of the ironworkers’ union.

“This bill is not about savings; it is about breaking the backs of the hard-working men and women of this state,” Assemblyman Patrick J. Diegnan Jr., a Middlesex County Democrat, said Thursday after the session began. “I challenge everyone in this chamber today: how many have even read the full 124 pages of union-busting activities?”

But Assemblyman Angel Fuentes, a Camden Democrat, said, “These reforms are unquestionably bitter pills for us to swallow, but they are reasonable and they are necessary.” He added: “We now have towns across this state that are struggling to afford health benefits for their employees. This has resulted in cities laying off workers.”

The legislation applies to all state employees and to a much larger number of county, town and school district workers, because most local governments participate in the state-run pension and health care systems. When it is fully phased in, after four years, the average government worker will pay several thousand dollars more into the benefit funds.

But union leaders say the bigger issue is what they call a stealth assault on collective bargaining. With just a week remaining in the contracts for the major state employee unions, the unions are now trying to negotiate new agreements with the state.

Most public employees in the state, other than teachers, police officers and firefighters, have had no guarantee of collective bargaining on any issue except for health benefits.

The legislation will supersede that right, allowing the state to impose health care terms unilaterally. For many workers, this means that if contract talks reach an impasse, the government will be able, at least in theory, to dictate all terms, like wages, time off and work rules.

“This bill cuts away the one issue, health care, that the unions could use to trade off against other things,” said Jeffrey H. Keefe, associate professor at the School of Management and Labor Relations at Rutgers University.

Hetty Rosenstein, state director of the Communications Workers of America, said, “This bill is nothing less than Chris Christie’s frontal assault on organized labor.”

Union leaders said they were exploring the possibility that some provisions of the bill, like the suspension of cost-of-living increases for retirees, could be challenged in court.

In his campaign to rein in the unions and shrink government, Mr. Christie has often been helped by New Jersey’s unique political culture, where local political machines still dominate some areas, and many state legislators also hold local government jobs. That gives striking influence in Trenton to mayors, county executives and local party bosses who struggle with rising labor costs and have repeatedly sided with the governor’s push to cut benefits and wages.

<span style="color: #990000"><span style='font-size: 17pt'>Until recently, the public employee unions were among the most feared forces in state politics. They were a major source of votes, campaign cash and foot soldiers for Democrats, but officials in both parties were eager to please them. For years, governors and legislators from both parties sweetened their pension benefits but did not put any money into the system to pay for them.

As a result, the state’s pension funds are among the most underfunded in the nation — estimated last year at $54 billion short of the amount needed to meet future obligations. Mr. Christie and others have warned that mounting pension and health care costs could eventually bankrupt the state and local governments.</span>
</span>
The pendulum has swung back over the last four years, first under Gov. Jon S. Corzine, a Democrat, and then under Mr. Christie, as the state took steps like increasing what workers paid for benefits, raising retirement ages and limiting contract arbitration awards. But the bill now awaiting the Senate’s approval and Mr. Christie’s signature is easily the most far-reaching one yet.

</span>

LWW
06-25-2011, 03:38 AM
It is heartening to see some politicians pursuing the public good.

Sev
06-25-2011, 05:44 AM
The left will be wailing in short order.

LWW
06-25-2011, 02:37 PM
And they have such precious little to say about the union situation in NY?

Sev
06-25-2011, 03:43 PM
They are being swept away by the tidal wave that began in WI.

I heard come come July the layoff numbers in NY will begin to come out.

LWW
06-26-2011, 04:30 AM
But they have a democrook gubner ... so this will be played as union bubbas being taught their place.

hondo
06-26-2011, 07:16 AM
I think every wingnut who wants to return to the "good ole days" before unions should be required to watch Matewan.
The Right wingers attitudes towards the American working people hearkens back even further- to the days of the French aristocracy.

The Right seems to yearning for a 2 class system in America- the working poor, powerless, destitute, and the rich who enslave them.

What gets me is how some folks who have little or nothing buy
into this crap: my wife's cousin Joey, sev, jennings.
One of these days you'll look back and see how you were suckered
into rejoicing over the demise of unions, the ACLU, right to privacy, funding of the arts, health care for all.
You guys might be right about the school system. Sure are a lot of dummies and puppets anymore!

Read 1984 for crying out loud. The real book, not dearless leader's fractured fairy tale version of the Cliffnotes he read.

Qtec
06-26-2011, 09:23 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I heard come come July the layoff numbers in NY will begin to come out.
</div></div>

Yes, that's just what the US needs, more unemployed.

You can't moan about 'where are the jobs' when you support a party that pushes legislation that puts more people out of work.

Q

Qtec
06-26-2011, 09:31 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I think every wingnut who wants to return to the "good ole days" before unions should be required to watch Matewan.</div></div>

Unions exist for a reason. So does the EPA.

Q

LWW
06-26-2011, 09:36 AM
You make the false assumption that all public employees actually work ... watch any road crew and you will see something along the line of:

- 2 guys sitting in the cab of the truck.

- 2 guys sitting on the tailgate of the truck

- 1 guy with a shovel moving some hot tarmac into the pothole.

- 1 guy tamping it into the pothole.

- 2 guys watching.

- 1 guy supervising.

- The obligatory EEOC female waving a flag to keep traffic moving so that few people will see that 8 of the 10 person crew are getting paid to do nothing ... and the other 2 are working at a snail's pace while thousands of taxpayers are made to wait..

Sev
06-26-2011, 07:19 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I heard come come July the layoff numbers in NY will begin to come out.
</div></div>

Yes, that's just what the US needs, more unemployed.

You can't moan about 'where are the jobs' when you support a party that pushes legislation that puts more people out of work.

Q </div></div>

The less people that are working for the government the less taxes they have to collect to pay them.

Sev
06-26-2011, 07:27 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think every wingnut who wants to return to the "good ole days" before unions should be required to watch Matewan.
The Right wingers attitudes towards the American working people hearkens back even further- to the days of the French aristocracy.

The Right seems to yearning for a 2 class system in America- the working poor, powerless, destitute, and the rich who enslave them.

What gets me is how some folks who have little or nothing buy
into this crap: my wife's cousin Joey, sev, jennings.
One of these days you'll look back and see how you were suckered
into rejoicing over the demise of unions, the ACLU, right to privacy, funding of the arts, health care for all.
You guys might be right about the school system. Sure are a lot of dummies and puppets anymore!

Read 1984 for crying out loud. The real book, not dearless leader's fractured fairy tale version of the Cliffnotes he read. </div></div>

Oh please Hondo. I have nothing against private sector unions. Public sector ones however are another story. Even FDR, your hero warned that they would become a problem and his prophecy has come to fruition.
The funding of public unions is theft from the tax payers.

Sev
06-26-2011, 07:28 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I think every wingnut who wants to return to the "good ole days" before unions should be required to watch Matewan.</div></div>

Unions exist for a reason. So does the EPA.

Q </div></div>

To stifle liberty?

hondo
06-26-2011, 08:20 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I think every wingnut who wants to return to the "good ole days" before unions should be required to watch Matewan.</div></div>

Unions exist for a reason. So does the EPA.

Q </div></div>

To stifle liberty? </div></div>

Yep. Soon you'll be free to live in poverty.
Why should wealthy business owners have to pay American workers more than Chinese workers make in China or Mexican workers make in Mexico?

What's that? They can't afford bread anymore?
Let them eat cake.

Sev
06-26-2011, 08:28 PM
Your hyperventilating my man.

The government is the problem. Not the solution.

It is composed of millions of arm chair quarterbacks that have never gained real world experience in the fields of endeavor they seek to regulate.

hondo
06-26-2011, 09:15 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your hyperventilating my man.

The government is the problem. Not the solution.

It is composed of millions of arm chair quarterbacks that have never gained real world experience in the fields of endeavor they seek to regulate. </div></div>

Nope. Not hyperventilating at all.
Just telling the truth.
You at least defend the NRA.
Every other group that stands between you and Big Brother
you want to see eliminated.
If you live long enough you will one day wonder what the fuk happened.

ugotda7
06-26-2011, 10:28 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think every wingnut who wants to return to the "good ole days" before unions should be required to watch Matewan.
The Right wingers attitudes towards the American working people hearkens back even further- to the days of the French aristocracy.

The Right seems to yearning for a 2 class system in America- the working poor, powerless, destitute, and the rich who enslave them.

What gets me is how some folks who have little or nothing buy
into this crap: my wife's cousin Joey, sev, jennings.
One of these days you'll look back and see how you were suckered
into rejoicing over the demise of unions, the ACLU, right to privacy, funding of the arts, health care for all.
You guys might be right about the school system. Sure are a lot of dummies and puppets anymore!

Read 1984 for crying out loud. The real book, not dearless leader's fractured fairy tale version of the Cliffnotes he read. </div></div>

The Matewan days are gone, no longer relevant, and will never be returned to.....and you know that so stop with the sky is falling routine.

LWW
06-27-2011, 03:37 AM
He lives in terror that Bush and Cheney are hiding in the bushes of the holler waiting for him.

LWW
06-27-2011, 03:43 AM
What else is funny is that he learns "HISTORY" from Hollywood films much like how Charlotte "READS" books by watching C-SPAN.

hondo
06-27-2011, 04:28 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ugotda7</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think every wingnut who wants to return to the "good ole days" before unions should be required to watch Matewan.
The Right wingers attitudes towards the American working people hearkens back even further- to the days of the French aristocracy.

The Right seems to yearning for a 2 class system in America- the working poor, powerless, destitute, and the rich who enslave them.

What gets me is how some folks who have little or nothing buy
into this crap: my wife's cousin Joey, sev, jennings.
One of these days you'll look back and see how you were suckered
into rejoicing over the demise of unions, the ACLU, right to privacy, funding of the arts, health care for all.
You guys might be right about the school system. Sure are a lot of dummies and puppets anymore!

Read 1984 for crying out loud. The real book, not dearless leader's fractured fairy tale version of the Cliffnotes he read. </div></div>

The Matewan days are gone, no longer relevant, and will never be returned to.....and you know that so stop with the sky is falling routine. </div></div>

I wish you were right. Unfortunately, you're not.

hondo
06-27-2011, 04:33 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He lives in terror that Bush and Cheney are hiding in the bushes of the holler waiting for him. </div></div>

And you wonder why nobody has any interest in discourse with you.
West Virginians are dumb hillbillies; Japanese are stereotyped
as B grade characters from 50s movies; Blacks are all lazy gangstas in your mind.
You're dispicable!

hondo
06-27-2011, 04:34 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What else is funny is that he learns "HISTORY" from Hollywood films much like how Charlotte "READS" books by watching C-SPAN. </div></div>

Is that right, Godzilla?

LWW
06-27-2011, 04:43 AM
You've been peeking through the keyhole again?

ugotda7
06-27-2011, 08:47 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ugotda7</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think every wingnut who wants to return to the "good ole days" before unions should be required to watch Matewan.
The Right wingers attitudes towards the American working people hearkens back even further- to the days of the French aristocracy.

The Right seems to yearning for a 2 class system in America- the working poor, powerless, destitute, and the rich who enslave them.

What gets me is how some folks who have little or nothing buy
into this crap: my wife's cousin Joey, sev, jennings.
One of these days you'll look back and see how you were suckered
into rejoicing over the demise of unions, the ACLU, right to privacy, funding of the arts, health care for all.
You guys might be right about the school system. Sure are a lot of dummies and puppets anymore!

Read 1984 for crying out loud. The real book, not dearless leader's fractured fairy tale version of the Cliffnotes he read. </div></div>

The Matewan days are gone, no longer relevant, and will never be returned to.....and you know that so stop with the sky is falling routine. </div></div>

I wish you were right. Unfortunately, you're not. </div></div>

No, you're wrong. Well, that was easy. Hey, this could be fun.

Now if you'd like to do more and actually back up your statement about Matewan with some parallels to today you just might get taken a bit more seriously.

LWW
06-27-2011, 10:02 AM
What is this madness of which you speak?

A cabalist doing research that doesn't involve a spoon?

Sev
06-27-2011, 11:23 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your hyperventilating my man.

The government is the problem. Not the solution.

It is composed of millions of arm chair quarterbacks that have never gained real world experience in the fields of endeavor they seek to regulate. </div></div>

Nope. Not hyperventilating at all.
Just telling the truth.
You at least defend the NRA.
Every other group that stands between you and Big Brother
you want to see eliminated.
If you live long enough you will one day wonder what the fuk happened. </div></div>

You do realize the unions in the federal government were illegal until I believe the 1970's. That status should never have been changed.

Like I said private sector unions are fine. Businesses go under if they dont operate efficiently. The government does not.

The Dept's of Education and Energy also did not exist until the relatively recently. Their function and performance is very questionable.

I am not a fan or Homeland security or the patriot act. We survived with out either for a very long time.

The EPA serves a function. However it powers are to far over reaching and it needs to be reined in. It is a tyrannical organization. The DEC is becoming much the same way.

The US government is operating outside its constitutional mandate and needs to put back in its box. Our personal liberties should not be sacrificed for some perceived security.

hondo
06-27-2011, 02:13 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You've been peeking through the keyhole again? </div></div>

I'm not banned, honey. You are.

hondo
06-27-2011, 02:17 PM
As more and more folks lose their jobs and the agencies that would stand for fairness are abolished, we will see more and more drudgery for wages that folks cannot survive on.
But you don't care as long as you get yours, right, yugo?

LWW
06-27-2011, 02:42 PM
And you can thank dear leader for winning the war on prosperity.

Sev
06-28-2011, 05:45 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As more and more folks lose their jobs and the agencies that would stand for fairness are abolished, we will see more and more drudgery for wages that folks cannot survive on.
But you don't care as long as you get yours, right, yugo? </div></div>

What agencies have been abolished???
If anything more have been and are on their way to being created.

And by the way. With the literally millions of laws on the books today if we dont have it covered by now we never will.

LWW
06-28-2011, 05:50 AM
He is operating only on the images from the mob leaders, any rational review of the actual facts would lead to the same conclusion as you.

It is astounding the things that the demopimps can get their bots to believe.

Sev
06-28-2011, 06:37 AM
Democracies begin to fall as soon as the population figures out they can vote themselves raises.

The foundation of the USA used to be drive, hard work, determination and a desire to succeed.

Today its a determination to find a way to get a free ride on the backs of others.

LWW
06-28-2011, 06:49 AM
<span style='font-size: 11pt'>"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can for your country"</span>
-John Fitzgerald Kennedy-
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<span style='font-size: 11pt'>"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same."</span>
-Ronald Wilson Reagan-
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<span style='font-size: 11pt'>"Follow me on Twitter."</span>
-Barack Hussein Obama Junior-

Sev
06-29-2011, 07:47 AM
OH how the mighty have fallen. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

hondo
06-29-2011, 08:08 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OH how the mighty have fallen. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div>

'Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same."

So meanwhile, you and you kind fight like hell to abolish
virtually everything other than NRA that helps us hang on to what we have.
Classic doublethink.

LWW
06-29-2011, 03:33 PM
Isn't it astounding that the "ENGLISH TEACHER OF THE YEAR" uses phrases like "YOU AND YOU KIND" to demonstrate his point?

hondo
06-29-2011, 04:16 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Isn't it astounding that the "ENGLISH TEACHER OF THE YEAR" uses phrases like "YOU AND YOU KIND" to demonstrate his point? </div></div>

ABSOLUTELY! The fact that I had a typo is mind boggling.
you know ,dub, you never were much, but you have just become a shell of your former pathetic self.
I really do pity you.
A sad lonely man. No job. No career. No family. No friends otherthan your 2 butt buddies on here. no accomplishments.
I'm starting to think I should leave you alone and let you wallow in your misery.
BTW, I lefta few typos for you so you can grasp at your fantasy of superiority.
Who else would do that for you, little buddy?

Have a nice evening typing away. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

LWW
06-29-2011, 05:30 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> http://gamersushi.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/crybaby.jpg </div></div>

hondo
06-29-2011, 06:46 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> http://gamersushi.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/crybaby.jpg </div></div> </div></div>


Your baby picture? You haven't changed much.
Get a life!

hondo
06-29-2011, 06:50 PM
"A sad lonely man. No job. No career. No family. No friends other than your 2 butt buddies on here. No accomplishments."

Ever been on a vacation? I think you need one, little buddy.

Sev
06-29-2011, 07:41 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OH how the mighty have fallen. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div>

'Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same."

So meanwhile, you and you kind fight like hell to abolish
virtually everything other than NRA that helps us hang on to what we have.
Classic doublethink. </div></div>

I think you have a bit wrong there my man.

We are supposed to have a limited federal government and strong state governments. Currently the opposite is true.

LWW
06-30-2011, 04:25 AM
http://jasonjeffrey.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/obama-constitution-teleprompter.jpg