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Sid_Vicious
07-05-2011, 04:16 PM
At the level of up to 95% of all players shooting abilities, I say no. The average and above average players will less than likely break and run on even a great break shot, and there are so many times when that hammer break results in loss of control and actually gives the other guy the open runout...what's the major deal in this adage, "The break shot is the most important shot of 9B."

Take Allison Fisher as an example. She came over her years ago with a "reserved" break speed, always made a ball on the break as I remember, ran out or at least controlled the table, and demolished the US players, including the Jeanettes and the Texas Tornados and everyone in between. Allison was in #1 spot for years with that style. IMHO, Allison lost a lot when she went to a hammer break, and fell from her perch on the top. My point is, if you can be at a high percentage of making a ball on the break, and maintaining control, without all the hammer, then why do people get pushy and say, "Oh she/he's gotta work on that break shot?" Duel made a good living with a soft break, so what is wrong with an average break speed with control? Hardly any of us shoot good enough to figure to finish a rack of 9B, even with a jolting sledgehammer brake, and selling out late in a run could almost me a trap for opponents knowing the other player hardly runs out through the 9. I guess I just don't get it. When playing local players, there's almost always a shot coming back after an opponent smashes the daylights out of a rack in 9B, lots of time with BIH. Most of us run in that circle of talent anyway, not with the Earls and Archers. What's the big deal???sid

LWW
07-06-2011, 02:51 AM
I concur.

BCA Master Instr
07-06-2011, 07:44 AM
What is the desired result of a 9-Ball Break?
randyg

JJFSTAR
07-06-2011, 08:39 AM
IMHO “good” breaking is very important at the level that I am once you get past say TAP or APA SL4 meaning 5’s, 6’s and 7’s yes it is “THAT” important. That is not to say that “good” breaking equals power breaking. Neither my 9ball or 8ball default break is the power break but if the balls are not falling for me on that table then the CB comes to the center and up goes the power.

I am no great pool player but plenty of the games I win I have won because I had control of the table right from the very start. Sure we may only be talking about %5-%8 but that’s huge. So I say yes it is very very important but I also say that hitting the pack as hard as you possibly can is not all that essential as your average 9ball player thinks.

JJFSTAR
07-06-2011, 08:49 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCA Master Instr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the desired result of a 9-Ball Break?
randyg </div></div>

The answer is too obvious, so I don’t quite understand what are you getting at?

jjinfla
07-06-2011, 11:40 AM
What is the desired result of a 9-Ball Break?
randyg

Keep control of the table.

07-06-2011, 11:48 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCA Master Instr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the desired result of a 9-Ball Break?
randyg </div></div>

To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women. ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PQ6335puOc


Eric

Sid_Vicious
07-06-2011, 02:18 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jjinfla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the desired result of a 9-Ball Break?
randyg

Keep control of the table. </div></div>

Give that man the prize! Like my example of Allison and Duel and thier reserved styles, that target of result was achieved. Corey didn't get the criticism that Fisher got in her early days, but Duel didn't sit on the throne for as long as Allison did, and SHE was almost constantly barked at by the announcers for needing to eventually work on that break. It was beautiful to watch her "control break", make a ball, and then execute shot after shot to finish a rack. What needed changing with those results? sid

pooltchr
07-06-2011, 03:02 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jjinfla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the desired result of a 9-Ball Break?
randyg

Keep control of the table. </div></div>

We have a winner!

Steve

JJFSTAR
07-06-2011, 04:56 PM
Well what I desire and what I strive to do I think are 2 different things. I think this OP should have been titled “Is power on the break THAT important?” And the answer to that question is obvious, no it really isn’t.

TV and the movies do send social players the message that the break should be a shot you send the CB into the pack with every bit of bang you can muster. I think any really good pool player can give you the reason not to do that. Sometimes you even see some experienced players in strait pool see a cluster shot and give it an uncontrolled wallop.

So is it important to have a good power break? If you watch enough good pool the answer that you should come up with is positively yes! And once you get above the average tournament players’ skill level it just about doubles in its importance.

There are darn few players who have found the balance between enough power to send a ball in a hole any more than every once in a while and not so much that it lets the CB “go loose”. When I say few I mean even among the better local players. Quite frankly I didn’t until I was well into my 30’s.

This is kind of where I am “Is the break in 9ball THAT important?” To that question I have to say yes. But I think the real question is “Is blasting the hell out of the rack important?” not only is it not important it isn’t a good idea. Even though on TV it looks like that’s exactly what they are doing.

Fran Crimi
07-06-2011, 06:40 PM
Just to clarify, Allison didn't come over to the U.S. with a reserved break. I can tell you exactly when that happened because her first reserved break happened against me. It was when we first started using the Sardo rack. Allison had gotten the rack before any of us did and she had the jump on us in practicing her break and realizing that a soft, cut break made the corner ball, so she was ready at the first Sardo event. I happened to draw her my first match that event and pretty much went into shock watching her break softly. Everyone eventually had no choice but to use the soft cut break if they wanted to make the corner ball with the Sardo Rack. But for years before that she was breaking hard --- well, she was trying to break hard.

Fran Crimi
07-06-2011, 06:40 PM
Keep control of the table ---- How?

BCA Master Instr
07-07-2011, 06:47 AM
The object of a 9-Ball Break:


1. Learn to control my cue ball at any speed. (Stop Shot)
2. Learn what break speed is the best to pocket a ball on that particular table. (50% is good)

Hitting the sweet spot in the rack is foremost over more speed.

thanks,

JJFSTAR
07-07-2011, 12:09 PM
Well Fran its more “Get control of the table” I guess with pro’s it’s probably somewhat different but you can force a player to solve the problems of the rack for you with good safety play, thus you are “keeping control of the rack”. With most of us (in 9ball) “safety battles” are not common. After being safed for most of us the better odds are a “poke n hope” rather than attempting to safe someone back.

Sid_Vicious
07-07-2011, 04:40 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fran Crimi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just to clarify, Allison didn't come over to the U.S. with a reserved break. I can tell you exactly when that happened because her first reserved break happened against me. It was when we first started using the Sardo rack. Allison had gotten the rack before any of us did and she had the jump on us in practicing her break and realizing that a soft, cut break made the corner ball, so she was ready at the first Sardo event. I happened to draw her my first match that event and pretty much went into shock watching her break softly. Everyone eventually had no choice but to use the soft cut break if they wanted to make the corner ball with the Sardo Rack. But for years before that she was breaking hard --- well, she was trying to break hard.



</div></div>

Allison sure "seemed" to appear on the scene here in premier fashion with her break and game, while being criticized. That is my point. Duel perfected the soft break later. Can you argue against that? Yet Allison was chastised for a weak break. sid

Fran Crimi
07-07-2011, 06:38 PM
Well, I thought we were talking about the break, though. How does a player keep control of the table from the break? I would guess that the answer is to first, pocket a ball on the break to stay at the table. Forgetting about the Sardo Rack for a minute, there is a legitimate school of thought where players feel that they maximize their opportunity to make a ball on the break with a hard break. They also feel that it maximizes their opportunity for a trouble-free runout with the least amount of clusters.

Players should vary their break depending on what the table allows. If a softer break is the only way to pocket a ball on a particular table or with a particular rack, then that's what the player should do.

JJFSTAR
07-08-2011, 08:14 AM
Yes I agree with all that; I failed to say, and this is my fault that the reason these guys are saying “to keep control of the table” is just as you said yes pot a ball but it is just as important not to loose the CB forward because if you do your chances of having to roll out, having a low percentage shot or having a low percentage safety are quite high; they are lower in your category so you folks can (and should) hit it very much harder than the average even very strong league player can or should.

I guess I just thought it went without saying that they were saying hit it hard enough to pot a ball and leave the CB in the center of the table so you stay at the table (retaining control of it) with an excellent possibility of a high percentage shot or high percentage safety. It’s really funny that in my mind I didn’t consider the possibility that “keeping control of the table” could mean anything else.

Fran Crimi
07-08-2011, 10:51 AM
I'm not sure what you mean about Allison, but regarding Cory, all players go through periods of experimentation. Cory's soft break does not necessarily work on every type of table with every type of rack. You have to learn how to quickly assess the conditions in front of you and maximize your opportunities. Sometimes that means breaking the balls as hard as you can. Sometimes it doesn't.

Fran Crimi
07-08-2011, 10:56 AM
There's this one break where you leave the cb in the center of the table and the 1-Ball always winds up in the middle of the top rail, leaving you no shot. I can't tell you how many times that happens. I have yet to figure out how to prevent it and still leave the cb in the center of the table. Maybe it's just me, but because of that I'm not a fan of trying for that break.

JJFSTAR
07-08-2011, 02:20 PM
Perhaps this is a learning moment for me I am kind of stuck in the 2 ideas I do have about the 9ball break. I am in %100 agreement with you about feeling out any table (that’s why I have more than 1 break in my arsenal). I think this is best covered in a separate thread please post in my discussion as I value your input in high regard.

07-08-2011, 04:55 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fran Crimi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's this one break where you leave the cb in the center of the table and the 1-Ball always winds up in the middle of the top rail, leaving you no shot. I can't tell you how many times that happens. I have yet to figure out how to prevent it and still leave the cb in the center of the table. Maybe it's just me, but because of that I'm not a fan of trying for that break. </div></div>

If you are talking about breaking from 1 ball space off the side rail, on the balk line, I find that being able to hit the break a lil bit harder, driving the 1 ball 3 rails, leaves a shot into the same corner pocket you were breaking from.


Eric &gt;assuming I dont miscue

Fran Crimi
07-09-2011, 09:04 AM
"Eric &gt;assuming I dont miscue"


Yep. I'll give it a try. Hitting it that hard with that kind of accuracy makes it tough.