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Qtec
07-07-2011, 01:38 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Closing The Hedge Fund Manager Tax Loophole Would Raise $4 Billion Annually From The 25 Richest Managers



During the negotiations regarding raising the nationís debt ceiling, congressional Republicans have gone to the mat to defend all manner of unwarranted tax breaks, including those for oil companies and corporate jet owners. Despite the drain on the Treasury caused by these tax breaks ó and the negligible benefit they provide ó Republicans have threatened to allow the nation to default on its obligations rather than abandon them.

One of the tax breaks upon which President Obama has focused is a provision that allows hedge fund managers ó who make billions annually ó to receive a substantial tax break. <u>This particular tax break, known as the carried-interest loophole, allows hedge fund managers to treat the money they receive from investors as capital gains, subject to a 15 percent tax rate.</u> Though this money is a paycheck received for services, just like a movie star receiving a bonus if her movie does well, itís treated as investment income.

Since hedge fund managers are some of the richest people in the country, this tax break actually causes a significant loss of revenue. In fact, according to calculation by RJ Eskow, closing this loophole would raise more than $4 billion per year just from the 25 richest hedge fund managers:

The top 25 hedge fund managers in the United States collectively earned $22 billion last year, and yet they have their own cushy set of tax rules. If they operated under the same rules that apply to other people ó police officers, for example, or teachers ó the country could cut its national deficit by as much as $44 billion in the next ten years.

That may seem like a lot of revenue to raise from just a few people, but itís simply what would happen if the income hedge fund managers receive to manage other peopleís money was treated the same as income earned by other workers. Economist Robert Reich estimates that closing the hedge fund loophole could raise as much as $20 billion a year in revenue, overall.
<span style='font-size: 14pt'>
The top hedge fund manager at the moment, John Paulson, makes more hourly than most It would take the combined income of 441,000 middle-class families to equal the income made by just the 25 richest hedge fund managers. Americans will earn in a lifetime, while paying a lower tax rate. This is an egregious loophole, <u>but the GOP refuses to consider it as part of a deal to avoid default and an economic catastrophe.</u></span>

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Q

LWW
07-07-2011, 03:31 AM
Back where the air is thick, people realize it would do no such thing ... although it probably would drive the funds into tax havens such as the Cayman Islands, further decimating the tax base.

Now impress me ... what is a hedge fund? Also, why do you believe a hedge fund is bad?

Qtec
07-07-2011, 03:51 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">although it probably would drive the funds into tax havens such as the Cayman Islands, </div></div>

They are already there, that's the problem.

Q

LWW
07-07-2011, 03:59 AM
Make up your mind ... are they here and taxable, or are they already gone?

And, again, without googling ... what is a hedge fund? Why is a hedge fund bad?

Qtec
07-07-2011, 04:05 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And, again, without googling ... what is a hedge fund? Why is a hedge fund bad </div></div>

<span style='font-size: 26pt'>OK genius, show me, and all who read this, where I said Hedge Funds were bad?</span>

Q

LWW
07-07-2011, 04:35 AM
You are wanting to punish them, so it would be a logical assumption ... but I forgot I was dealing with an illogical person.

Now ... without web searching ... impress me, what <span style='font-size: 11pt'><u>IS</u></span> a hedge fund?

Soflasnapper
07-07-2011, 10:53 AM
It's a group of no more than 99 investors (I think is the limit) who have pooled their money for investments, who are not required to file government reports because they keep their membership below the threshold for which that reporting is required (if 99 is correct, than 100 such persons creates the requirement of SEC or other governmental reporting. If that's slightly off, then whatever is the limit is just 1 below the reporting requirement).

It isn't PUNISHING anyone to say if you make over $1 billion a year, as some of these hedge fund managers do-- some, SEVERAL TIMES a BILLION-- you shouldn't be taxed at a preferred special rate at under half the top bracket rate.

It's not even an intended consequence of tax law, but an accidental loophole gained by gaming how they characterize the income to the hedge manager.

eg8r
07-07-2011, 12:13 PM
I am in favor of simplifying the tax code tremendously and treating everyone the same. If these greedy politicians want the extra percentage of these people's income then they should be taking the same percentage from everyone else.

eg8r

ugotda7
07-07-2011, 12:35 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And, again, without googling ... what is a hedge fund? Why is a hedge fund bad </div></div>

<span style='font-size: 26pt'>OK genius, show me, and all who read this, where I said Hedge Funds were bad?</span>

Q </div></div>

If you went beyond simple copying and pasting and put forth some actual thought then folks here would at least have a hint about what you're trying to convey. Yeah, I know, that's just asking for too much from you huh?

Qtec
07-08-2011, 12:08 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you went beyond simple copying and pasting and put forth some actual thought then folks here would at least have a hint about what you're trying to convey. Yeah, I know, that's just asking for too much from you huh? </div></div>

I think my posts are self evident. I bolded this part.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The top hedge fund manager at the moment, John Paulson, makes more hourly than most It would take the combined income of 441,000 middle-class families to equal the income made by just the 25 richest hedge fund managers. Americans will earn in a lifetime, while paying a lower tax rate. <u>This is an egregious loophole, but the GOP refuses to consider it as part of a deal to avoid default and an economic catastrophe. </u></div></div>

The GOP is obviously not interested in reducing the deficit.

Q

Qtec
07-08-2011, 12:30 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ugotda7</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And, again, without googling ... what is a hedge fund? Why is a hedge fund bad </div></div>

<span style='font-size: 26pt'>OK genius, show me, and all who read this, where I said Hedge Funds were bad?</span>

Q </div></div>

If you went beyond simple copying and pasting and put forth some actual thought then folks here would at least have a hint about what you're trying to convey. Yeah, I know, that's just asking for too much from you huh? </div></div>


You have made 5 replies but never once offered an opinion on the topic, just attacked me for throwing up a topic for discussion!

I work for a living. I made 4 or 5 new threads, that takes time.

Q

LWW
07-08-2011, 04:17 AM
So ... what is a hedge fund?

LWW
07-08-2011, 04:20 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if you make over $1 billion a year, as some of these hedge fund managers do-- some, SEVERAL TIMES a BILLION-- </div></div>

When did they start earning this much ... and whom did they back for POTUS?

ugotda7
07-08-2011, 08:17 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you went beyond simple copying and pasting and put forth some actual thought then folks here would at least have a hint about what you're trying to convey. Yeah, I know, that's just asking for too much from you huh? </div></div>

I think my posts are self evident. I bolded this part.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The top hedge fund manager at the moment, John Paulson, makes more hourly than most It would take the combined income of 441,000 middle-class families to equal the income made by just the 25 richest hedge fund managers. Americans will earn in a lifetime, while paying a lower tax rate. <u>This is an egregious loophole, but the GOP refuses to consider it as part of a deal to avoid default and an economic catastrophe. </u></div></div>

The GOP is obviously not interested in reducing the deficit.

Q

</div></div>

So you just want to parrot someone else's words.....not surprising.

LWW
07-08-2011, 08:26 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's a group of no more than 99 investors (I think is the limit) who have pooled their money for investments, who are not required to file government reports because they keep their membership below the threshold for which that reporting is required (if 99 is correct, than 100 such persons creates the requirement of SEC or other governmental reporting. If that's slightly off, then whatever is the limit is just 1 below the reporting requirement).</div></div>

1 - I didn't ask you.

2 - I didn't ask how many members a hedge fund may have.

3 - Hedge funds are not exempt from SEC filings.

4 - I asked what a hedge fund was, without using a web search.

5 - You don't know what a hedge fund is either.

LWW
07-08-2011, 08:27 AM
Good analogy.

He can squawk for days on end ... "SQUAWK - HEDGE FUND - SQUAWK" ... without the slightest clue what a hedge fund actually is.

LWW
07-10-2011, 04:28 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Closing The Hedge Fund Manager Tax Loophole ...

Since hedge fund managers ...

the 25 richest hedge fund managers ...

The top 25 hedge fund managers ...

hedge fund managers receive ...

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>
The top hedge fund manager ...

the 25 richest hedge fund managers...</span></div></div>


Q

</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style='font-size: 14pt'>Hedge Funds ...</span>

Q </div></div>

OK, you have convince me you cancut and paste the words "HEDGE FUND" ... now, what is a hedge fund?

Qtec
07-10-2011, 10:09 AM
What a hedge fund is is irrelevant but here you go. link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedge_fund)

What is relevant is,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Because the manager is compensated with a profits interest in the fund, the bulk of its income from the fund is taxed, not as compensation for services, but as a return on investment. Typically, when a partner receives a profits interest (commonly referred to as a "carried interest"), the partner is not taxed upon receipt, due to the difficulty of ascertaining the present value of an interest in future profits.[2] Instead, the partner is taxed as the partnership earns income. In the case of a hedge fund, this means that the partner defers taxation on the income that the hedge fund earns, which is typically ordinary income (or possibly short-term capital gains), due to the nature of the investments most hedge funds make. <span style='font-size: 14pt'>Private equity funds, however, typically invest on a longer horizon, with the result that income earned by the funds is long-term capital gain, taxable to individuals <u>at a maximum 15% rate.</u> Because the 20% profits share typically is the bulk of the managerís compensation, and because this compensation can reach, in the case of the most successful funds, enormous figures, concern has been raised, both in Congress and in the media, that managers are taking advantage of tax loopholes to receive what is effectively a salary <u>without paying the ordinary 35% marginal income tax rates that an average person would have to pay on such income</u></span> </div></div>

Q

Soflasnapper
07-10-2011, 01:22 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's a group of no more than 99 investors (I think is the limit) who have pooled their money for investments, who are not required to file government reports because they keep their membership below the threshold for which that reporting is required (if 99 is correct, than 100 such persons creates the requirement of SEC or other governmental reporting. If that's slightly off, then whatever is the limit is just 1 below the reporting requirement).</div></div>

1 - I didn't ask you.

2 - I didn't ask how many members a hedge fund may have.

3 - Hedge funds are not exempt from SEC filings.

4 - I asked what a hedge fund was, without using a web search.

5 - You don't know what a hedge fund is either. </div></div>

If you wanted someone to say the purpose of this group of investors getting their money pooled together in a limited partnership under the hedge fund general managing partner's management is to HEDGE their portfolio against any market turn, and prospectively earn 20% per annum plus doing it, it's.... it's.... it's right there in the name!

A little obvious. Perhaps you could explain in what respect you ask the question, instead of complaining the exact part of the definition was left out.

If the question is WHEN did these hedge fund managers get their less than half-price tax rate (15% on unlimited amounts of compensation, including a half dozen of these guys bringing in more than $1 billion a year in income), that was as of one or another of the W tax rate reductions. I suppose it was the second round, where cap gains and dividends and interest were given preferred treatment to max out the tax due on them to 15%. While it's true these guys have been making this kind of money for some time, it used to be they paid at the top marginal rate for ordinary income. So, since you were fishing for Clinton's name to be mentioned, apparently, they paid 39.6% on their income during his terms, and for a little while into W's first term. Before W dropped their top rate on this kind of income to 38% of the previous rate.

LWW
07-10-2011, 01:50 PM
Thanks for confirming that you had no idea. You cut and pasted how a HF manager is compensated ... but have shown not a twinkle of a clue what one is.

LWW
07-10-2011, 01:58 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's a group of no more than 99 investors (I think is the limit) who have pooled their money for investments, who are not required to file government reports because they keep their membership below the threshold for which that reporting is required (if 99 is correct, than 100 such persons creates the requirement of SEC or other governmental reporting. If that's slightly off, then whatever is the limit is just 1 below the reporting requirement).</div></div>

1 - I didn't ask you.

2 - I didn't ask how many members a hedge fund may have.

3 - Hedge funds are not exempt from SEC filings.

4 - I asked what a hedge fund was, without using a web search.

5 - You don't know what a hedge fund is either. </div></div>

If you wanted someone to say the purpose of this group of investors getting their money pooled together in a limited partnership under the hedge fund general managing partner's management is to HEDGE their portfolio against any market turn, and prospectively earn 20% per annum plus doing it, it's.... it's.... it's right there in the name!

A little obvious. Perhaps you could explain in what respect you ask the question, instead of complaining the exact part of the definition was left out.

If the question is WHEN did these hedge fund managers get their less than half-price tax rate (15% on unlimited amounts of compensation, including a half dozen of these guys bringing in more than $1 billion a year in income), that was as of one or another of the W tax rate reductions. I suppose it was the second round, where cap gains and dividends and interest were given preferred treatment to max out the tax due on them to 15%. While it's true these guys have been making this kind of money for some time, it used to be they paid at the top marginal rate for ordinary income. So, since you were fishing for Clinton's name to be mentioned, apparently, they paid 39.6% on their income during his terms, and for a little while into W's first term. Before W dropped their top rate on this kind of income to 38% of the previous rate.


</div></div>

1 - I still didn't ask you.

2 - That isn't what a hedge fund is.

3 - Hedge fund managers pay the same income tax rates as anyone else.

4 - They also pay the same capital gains tax rate as anyone else.

5 - I wasn't fishing for anyone's name.

Soflasnapper
07-10-2011, 05:37 PM
Like Egypt's Great <s>Sphincter</s> Sphinx, excuse me, you are a cryptic one.

LWW
07-11-2011, 03:33 AM
Stop projecting and it will all become clear.

Qtec
07-11-2011, 05:57 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ugotda7</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you went beyond simple copying and pasting and put forth some actual thought then folks here would at least have a hint about what you're trying to convey. Yeah, I know, that's just asking for too much from you huh? </div></div>

I think my posts are self evident. I bolded this part.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The top hedge fund manager at the moment, John Paulson, makes more hourly than most It would take the combined income of 441,000 middle-class families to equal the income made by just the 25 richest hedge fund managers. Americans will earn in a lifetime, while paying a lower tax rate. <u>This is an egregious loophole, but the GOP refuses to consider it as part of a deal to avoid default and an economic catastrophe. </u></div></div>

The GOP is obviously not interested in reducing the deficit.

Q

</div></div>

So you just want to parrot someone else's words.....not surprising.


</div></div>

My own words.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-size: 26pt'>The GOP is obviously not interested in reducing the deficit.</span>

Q </div></div>

Nothing to say? Thought so.

Unlike you and the rest of the drive-by one liner posters, I take the trouble to make a point and provide SOME kind of support for my argument. You guys say, "That's BS" and leave it at that.

Try making a post that has more than 20 syllables supported by more than your own biased opinion.



Q......

LWW
07-11-2011, 03:34 PM
So what's a hedge fund?