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Qtec
07-12-2011, 05:41 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama declared on Monday there would be no deal on raising the government's debt limit if Republicans won't compromise, and he said he would not sign a short-term extension raising the stakes on volatile negotiations with the clock ticking toward an Aug. 2 deadline.

"I don't see a path to a deal if they don't budge. Period," the president said in a challenge to his political opponents, accusing Republicans of having a "my way or the highway" posture on taxes. </div></div>

This blows away the MYTH that Obama is a Tyrant. HE is the one willing to comprimise. Its the GOP who are holding a gun to US finacial credibility while saying,


<span style='font-size: 17pt'>"Do what we want or the US gets it."</span>

terrorists (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/11/obama-debt-ceiling-press-conference_n_894416.html)

Q

Sev
07-12-2011, 06:17 AM
There is no reason to raise taxes on those that create jobs.

The US has more than enough revenue coming in to service the interest on our debt.
And there is no reason to raise the debt limit.

The president is lying about the need to raise it and the use of the 14 amendment.

eg8r
07-12-2011, 03:49 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> HE is the one willing to comprimise.</div></div>This isn't about what HE is willing to do since HE does not get to vote at the moment. The issue is the Dems won't budge and neither will the Reps. How is it that such a simple concept is so tough for you to understand.

eg8r

LWW
07-12-2011, 05:13 PM
What compromise has he made?

Qtec
07-13-2011, 12:47 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> HE is the one willing to comprimise.</div></div>This isn't about what HE is willing to do since HE does not get to vote at the moment. <u> The issue is the Dems won't budge and neither will the Reps.</u> How is it that such a simple concept is so tough for you to understand.

eg8r </div></div>


This should be a straight up or down vote, raise the debt ceiling or not - like it was 7 times under Bush.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This Q&A with <span style='font-size: 14pt'>former Reagan adviser Bruce Bartlett</span> is a must read. Some choice items:

Q. <u>Why are the Republicans so militant now while they voted seven times to raise it during the tenure of George Bush ?</u>

A. Bruce Bartlett : <span style='font-size: 14pt'>Obviously, because there is a Democrat in the WH.</span> </div></div>

Obama has offered huge cuts that will be difficult for him to convince Dems to agree on. The GOP have offered nothing. They are the ones who will not budge because they refuse to raise taxes on the most wealthy. ie everyone earning more than $500,000.
Obama doesn't have to bargain at all. Top Republicans have already said that it must be raised.



Q

BTW, Govt revenue is now at 15% of GDP while it has always been around 20%. The USA also has a revenue problem.

LWW
07-13-2011, 02:57 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Obama has offered huge cuts that will be difficult for him to convince Dems to agree on.

Q </div></div>

Really?

What are they?

What's that?

There aren't any?

eg8r
07-13-2011, 05:17 AM
And McConnell capitulates.

eg8r

eg8r
07-13-2011, 05:19 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This should be a straight up or down vote, raise the debt ceiling or not - like it was 7 times under Bush.
</div></div>However this time we have a few people in Congress that see the danger in doing so and are requesting instead of keeping the status quo which put us here in the first place, let's do something to try and fix it or at least try to steer this ship away from the glacier.

Then we have people like you that tell us glaciers are not real and just a fantasy. Full steam ahead.

eg8r

LWW
07-13-2011, 05:54 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This should be a straight up or down vote, raise the debt ceiling or not - like it was 7 times under Bush.
</div></div>However this time we have a few people in Congress that see the danger in doing so and are requesting instead of keeping the status quo which put us here in the first place, let's do something to try and fix it or at least try to steer this ship away from the glacier.

Then we have people like you that tell us glaciers are not real and just a fantasy. Full steam ahead.

eg8r </div></div>

What's funny is the O-cult was bleating <span style='font-size: 11pt'>"CHAAAANGE - CHAAAANGE - CHAAAANGE"</span> when they were told that were for change.

Now that they are told by dear leader that they were really for mor of the same the entire time, what bleat do we hear?

<span style='font-size: 11pt'>"SAAAAME - SAAAAME - SAAAAME"</span>

LWW
07-13-2011, 05:58 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/obama-big-brother1.jpg

<span style='font-size: 26pt'><span style='font-family: Comic Sans MS'>WE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN AT WAR WITH EASTASIA!</span></span>

http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/obama-big-brother1.jpg</div></div>

eg8r
07-13-2011, 07:18 AM
I find it absolutely hilarious that we have 10 years of lefties crying about how horrible Bush was but then when they want to do something bad like raise the debt ceiling they tell us, "Come on Bush did it why can't Obama".

eg8r

Sev
07-13-2011, 07:34 AM
Obama is proving to be Bush III.

I dont see the Dems lining up to excoriate Obama for the blood on his and Holders hands in regards to Operation Fast & Furious.

I guess dead Mexicans are acceptable as long as theirs are still maintaining their gardens.

Gayle in MD
07-13-2011, 07:34 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama declared on Monday there would be no deal on raising the government's debt limit if Republicans won't compromise, and he said he would not sign a short-term extension raising the stakes on volatile negotiations with the clock ticking toward an Aug. 2 deadline.

"I don't see a path to a deal if they don't budge. Period," the president said in a challenge to his political opponents, accusing Republicans of having a "my way or the highway" posture on taxes. </div></div>

This blows away the MYTH that Obama is a Tyrant. HE is the one willing to comprimise. Its the GOP who are holding a gun to US finacial credibility while saying,


<span style='font-size: 17pt'>"Do what we want or the US gets it."</span>

terrorists (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/11/obama-debt-ceiling-press-conference_n_894416.html)

Q </div></div>

Don't expect the right to have enough sense to see this for what it is.

First of all, they have no understanding of what the results would be if the Repiglican block raising the debt limit.

Additionally, they still refuse to acknowledge that the wealthy top one to three percent, do not create any jobs, nor do they stimulate the economy, when Repiglicans spend our revenues to give away more and more of them to the wealthy top, and the corporate fascists pigs.


The range of their denials, is simply a result of their ignorance. WE all saw what happened to job creation, under the Bush spending of our revenues, by giving away our money to the wealthy, and allowing hedge funders, to get away with paying far less than they owed on their multi billions, as they ran up costs for all of they rest of Americans.

The right is a waste of time. They have proven, over and over again, they have no knowledge of results, and no ability to understand economics.

"The deficits don't matter!"

For eight years, that was their mantra. WE are clearly in this mess dues to Repiglican FAILED policies, but the bible thumpers are so easily distracted by the Do Nothing Hhypocrites of the Repiglican Party, still harping on Gay Marriage, Abortion, and demonizing teachers and Unions, as they continue with their usual tactic, distracting the bible thumpers in the flyover states, with social issues, as they continue to spend our revenues on the top richest in our country, who produced nothing in the jobs market, and the Repiglican Liars, care about nothing but continuing to create the fascist country which Freidman, Reagan, Bush and Bush dreamed of throughout their lives.

The shock doctrine, is well underway.

G.

eg8r
07-13-2011, 07:40 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First of all, they have no understanding of what the results would be if the Repiglican block raising the debt limit.
</div></div>Maybe not all of the Reps would have an understanding but as of that speech the ones on social security will have a real good understanding. It is a shame that Obama would attack the group of people he can depend on for a vote.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Additionally, they still refuse to acknowledge that the wealthy top one to three percent, do not create any jobs, nor do they stimulate the economy,</div></div>And you refuse to acknowledge that this same group of people already pay 50% of the taxes in this country. When are the poor going to join in and pay their fair share?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"The deficits don't matter!"

For eight years, that was their mantra.</div></div>Actually this is a lie, but you are comfortable repeating it since that has been your nature for the past 10 years.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
07-13-2011, 07:44 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find it absolutely hilarious that we have 10 years of lefties crying about how horrible Bush was but then when they want to do something bad like raise the debt ceiling they tell us, "Come on Bush did it why can't Obama".

eg8r </div></div>

You just proved your own gross ignorance of the full meaning of, and results of, failing to raise the debt ceiling.

McConnell, is now seeking to change the constitution, in order to cop out of taking the responsibility his constituents expected.

Your continuted denial of how the right destroyed our economy, becomes more and more ridiculous.

Tax cuts for the wealthy, amount to spending ON THE WEALTHY. We all saw, the Bush tax cuts did not create jobs. The Bush tax cuts, did not pay for themselves. The Bush tax cuts were bad for the deficit, and for our economy, hence, the rEpiglican policies, of cutting taxes, warring, spending, borrowing, and removing regulations, led to a economic crash, and tremendous costs in the form of national disasters, such as in the Gulf of Mexico, our water table, our air and food.

Ignoring the unsustainable health costs for profit, triggered more hard working Americans going into default on their mortgages. Greedy investors, were a huge part of the "Walk out annd leave the keys on the counter" defaulters, and the Greenspan/Bush "Ownership Society" which called for irraionally low interest rates, flamed the Real Estate Bubble.

Repiglican policies desttroyed the economy, annd you STILL do understand how.

Amazing!

You either dcon't see through the Repigloican game playing, or you are so completely partisan, that you jump onto the bandwagon of lies, our of pure ignorance, or out of that religious collar and leash you wear.

Too bad. You guys haven't learned a damn thing, after all of the evidence, you are still living in denial.

McConnell is TRULY a POS and a coward!

G.

eg8r
07-13-2011, 07:45 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You just proved your own gross ignorance of the full meaning of, and results of, failing to raise the debt ceiling.
</div></div>All I have proved is your gross hypocrisy.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
07-13-2011, 08:50 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You just proved your own gross ignorance of the full meaning of, and results of, failing to raise the debt ceiling.
</div></div>All I have proved is your gross hypocrisy.

eg8r </div></div>

LOL, dream on. Tax cuts ARE spending, Ed. Our tax dollars being spent by Repiglicans, who have had a long standing policy of taking tax revenues from the country at large, and giving them to the wealthiest Americans, and the richest corporations, many of them responsible for our illnesses through their pollution, annd gougeing the public for daily needs, like energy, for example, and outsourcing our jobs, and continuing to spend our tax dollars on them, while the Middle Class becomes the poor.

It is social engineering at it's worst, promoted by the new Hitlers, Rupert Murdoch, and Grover Norquest, originally launched by Ronald Reagan and Milton Friedman.

G.

eg8r
07-13-2011, 11:26 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tax cuts ARE spending, Ed</div></div>Only in your twisted view. That is like someone getting a pay cut and telling everyone he does not have as much because he is spending more. You really have this stuff backwards.

eg8r

Soflasnapper
07-13-2011, 11:36 AM
The way things have been done is to use tax cuts to substitute for evil spending programs.

That is, the government faces a problem, where putting some money toward a problem looks like the best way to handle it.

Instead of the government making a spending program, and sending checks to people, they decide to make it a tax credit instead. The net effect to the government's balance sheet is identical. Only the anti-spending, pro-tax cut people think it is far superior, since all spending is bad, and all tax-cutting is good.

But what exactly is the difference to the government's deficit/surplus mix? No difference at all. The only difference is the tax code gets cluttered with yet another form to go in the year end tax filing, and taxpayers complain about how complicated the tax code has gotten. Yes, it's complicated, because of all the spending programs hidden as cuts in tax rates, as having some income subject to preferred rates, or putting in tax credits.

The child tax credit is one such example of hundreds, prolly. The feds decided people with minor dependent children were especially hurting, and should get (at first, it was) $500 per child from the government. Now it's $1,000. Rather than cut checks, it's receivable (if you file the right form) as a tax credit-- that amount of money off any net tax you'd otherwise owe.

As I've mentioned here already, the total of such tax spending is about $1.4 trillion annually, or enough to cut the current large deficit to zero, if such tax expenditures were cut to nothing.

We've had a fair amount of attention to spending programs, per se, and almost no attention to tax spending done as an exact alternative to a spending program.

Gayle in MD
07-13-2011, 01:19 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tax cuts ARE spending, Ed</div></div>Only in your twisted view. That is like someone getting a pay cut and telling everyone he does not have as much because he is spending more. You really have this stuff backwards.

eg8r </div></div>

No, you have it backwards.

Tax cuts, ARE spending. Additionally, your analogy is absurd, as usual.

G.

Gayle in MD
07-13-2011, 01:20 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The way things have been done is to use tax cuts to substitute for evil spending programs.

That is, the government faces a problem, where putting some money toward a problem looks like the best way to handle it.

Instead of the government making a spending program, and sending checks to people, they decide to make it a tax credit instead. The net effect to the government's balance sheet is identical. Only the anti-spending, pro-tax cut people think it is far superior, since all spending is bad, and all tax-cutting is good.

But what exactly is the difference to the government's deficit/surplus mix? No difference at all. The only difference is the tax code gets cluttered with yet another form to go in the year end tax filing, and taxpayers complain about how complicated the tax code has gotten. Yes, it's complicated, because of all the spending programs hidden as cuts in tax rates, as having some income subject to preferred rates, or putting in tax credits.

The child tax credit is one such example of hundreds, prolly. The feds decided people with minor dependent children were especially hurting, and should get (at first, it was) $500 per child from the government. Now it's $1,000. Rather than cut checks, it's receivable (if you file the right form) as a tax credit-- that amount of money off any net tax you'd otherwise owe.

As I've mentioned here already, the total of such tax spending is about $1.4 trillion annually, or enough to cut the current large deficit to zero, if such tax expenditures were cut to nothing.

We've had a fair amount of attention to spending programs, per se, and almost no attention to tax spending done as an exact alternative to a spending program.

</div></div>

Thank you! Don't hold your breath expecting anyone from the right to understand your excellent post, however!

G.