PDA

View Full Version : Debt Ceiling: Worst-Case Scenario



llotter
07-12-2011, 10:17 AM
The title is the 'worst-case scenario' but after reading it you could more likely conclude that not raising the debt limit would be the best-case scenario.

http://www.americanthinker.com/printpage...e_scenario.html (http://www.americanthinker.com/printpage/?url=http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/../2011/07/debt_ceiling_worst_case_scenario.html)

LWW
07-12-2011, 11:14 AM
<span style='font-size: 26pt'>HOW DARE YOU EXPECT THE OMNIPOTENT, OMNISCIENT, OMNIPRESENT AND OMNIVOROUS STATE TO SUBSIST ON ONE THIN DIME LESS!

IF THE FLY OVER BUBBAS CANNOT SURVIVE ON WHAT WEALTH THEIR BETTERS IN GOVERNMENT ALLOW THEM TO KEEP, THEN LET THEM STARVE!</span>

Sev
07-12-2011, 11:54 AM
Well Obama just lied about not being able to guarantee that Soc Sec and military checks being sent out if the debt ceiling isnt raised.

llotter
07-12-2011, 12:03 PM
It is not possible to hold a moron to account for any of his actions and unfortunately, we have put a moron in charge of who gets paid and who doesn't.

Soflasnapper
07-12-2011, 02:32 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The title is the 'worst-case scenario' but after reading it you could more likely conclude that not raising the debt limit would be the best-case scenario.

http://www.americanthinker.com/printpage...e_scenario.html (http://www.americanthinker.com/printpage/?url=http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/../2011/07/debt_ceiling_worst_case_scenario.html) </div></div>

You didn't notice his sleight of hand I guess.

He's talking about funding 14 months on the projected 2012 revenues, not 12 months, sorta sliding by the 'almost over' 2011 fiscal year, which will still have TWO MONTHS TO GO as of Aug. 4 (ends Sept. 30).

Oh, and sure, we can IMMEDIATELY CLOSE all overseas bases basically tomorrow and save ALL that money.

Yes, sure, if we can shoehorn 14 months into 12 months' budgeting, AND wave magic wands to achieve impossible things, there should be no real problems.

llotter
07-12-2011, 03:01 PM
If there is a sleight of hand, it is coming from you.

The author did not include the 2 mo. revenue or expense from 2011 but that doesn't imply that there would no revenue from those two months. He did explain that using 2012 as an example because the number are clearly agreed on.

Nor did he say that overseas bases would be closed tomorrow and therefore save all that money. He only suggested those might be areas to save the 33% needed under his model without stating anything about how much it would save specifically.

Soflasnapper
07-13-2011, 08:48 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If there is a sleight of hand, it is coming from you.

The author did not include the 2 mo. revenue or expense from 2011 but that doesn't imply that there would no revenue from those two months. He did explain that using 2012 as an example because the number are clearly agreed on.

Nor did he say that overseas bases would be closed tomorrow and therefore save all that money. He only suggested those might be areas to save the 33% needed under his model without stating anything about how much it would save specifically. </div></div>

He left out of the discussion anything about the remaining two months of this fiscal year, even though the debt ceiling is reached as of then. What do you call that?

llotter
07-13-2011, 09:56 AM
There is nothing unique about the remaining 2 months of this fiscal year...there will be expenses and there will be income but it wouldn't be worth the effort to try to hone in on exactly how much that is in real time just for the propose to a general discussion. He used 12 months of income against 12 months of expenses using OMB numbers for 2012 as he clearly explained.

LWW
07-13-2011, 02:47 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If there is a sleight of hand, it is coming from you. </div></div>

The only sleight of hand is that which you just attempted.

LWW
07-13-2011, 02:50 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He left out of the discussion anything about the remaining two months of this fiscal year, even though the debt ceiling is reached as of then. What do you call that? </div></div>

I call that someone who didn't have exact income/expense data for those two months.

I would call what you attempted to be at best a gross misunderstanding ... and at worst a gross attempt at deception.

Sev
07-13-2011, 03:00 PM
They wont accomplish anything until the end of the month.
The theater is to good for the players to leave the stage early.

Personally I hope nothing gets past the house.

Soflasnapper
07-13-2011, 04:03 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is nothing unique about the remaining 2 months of this fiscal year...there will be expenses and there will be income but it wouldn't be worth the effort to try to hone in on exactly how much that is in real time just for the propose to a general discussion. He used 12 months of income against 12 months of expenses using OMB numbers for 2012 as he clearly explained. </div></div>

FWIW: from a comment on Talkingpointsmemo.com:

Cornyn claimed: The Obama Administration would have more than needed to keep sending checks to Social Security recipients, or Medicare patients, or to our soldiers serving abroad.

Cornyn is -- surprise! -- wrong.

On August 3, the government will have $12 billion of revenue and $32 billion of obligations to meet, including $23 billion in Social Security payments. That's according to a Bush 41 budget official who was on NPR last night.

So in Cornyn's world, a $20 billion deficit on day one of the default is "more than needed" to keep everything humming along.

Apparently, the rhetorical trick Cornyn tried was saying any ONE of those three could be paid for (just not all of them, or two of them). But he even got that wrong, as SS alone is more than the income.

Government income doesn't all come in on exactly the same intervals, or in equal parts of the annual totals.

llotter
07-13-2011, 06:07 PM
Don't you ever tire of changing the subject and building straw men to attack?

cushioncrawler
07-13-2011, 09:17 PM
".....As I understand it, if the debt ceiling is not raised, the federal government cannot borrow any more money. That should mean it can only spend only what it raises in revenue. But what would that mean? Would the federal government have to default (stop making interest payments on its existing debt)? Would Social Security checks have to be cut? How big are the cuts we are talking about?....."

".......That should mean it can only spend only what it raises in revenue......."

".......should......"

Hmmmmmm -- do i detekt that the debt ceiling only applys to borrowing?????? -- not to spending?????

If so then mackanomix kan save theusofa. In mackanomix the gov duznt borrow any $$$$$ at any time, the gov just spends spends spends.
Mackanomix iz Keynesian ekonomix, but applyd each and every day, not just when in a depression.
mac.

Gayle in MD
07-13-2011, 11:08 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The title is the 'worst-case scenario' but after reading it you could more likely conclude that not raising the debt limit would be the best-case scenario.

http://www.americanthinker.com/printpage...e_scenario.html (http://www.americanthinker.com/printpage/?url=http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/../2011/07/debt_ceiling_worst_case_scenario.html) </div></div>

BULL!

Are you really THAT uninformed?

Stunning! Repiglicans are destablizing the credit markets. Repiglicans are unrealistic, and ignorant. They are committing political suicide, fine with me, except they are hurting the economy with their political tactics. Americans are catching on to the fact that refusal to negotiate, over something that has never been used as a political tactic, proves that they are impotent to legislate.

Boehner is proving that his job is beyond his ability.

Cantor and McConnell, are chomping at the bit, to replace Boehner.

Moody's is already throwing out a flare, to the Repiglican idiots.

And you think all is well!

Stunning ignorance, but no surprise. And, where are all of those jobs REpiglicans kept yapping about???

Over eighty anti-abortion bills, and not a single jobs bill yet, and in fact, Repiglican governors are destroying jobs at every turn!



LIARS!

G.

LWW
07-14-2011, 04:17 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't you ever tire of changing the subject and building straw men to attack? </div></div>

I don't think they ever do.

llotter
07-14-2011, 08:32 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The title is the 'worst-case scenario' but after reading it you could more likely conclude that not raising the debt limit would be the best-case scenario.

http://www.americanthinker.com/printpage...e_scenario.html (http://www.americanthinker.com/printpage/?url=http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/../2011/07/debt_ceiling_worst_case_scenario.html) </div></div>

BULL!

Are you really THAT uninformed?

Stunning! Repiglicans are destablizing the credit markets. Repiglicans are unrealistic, and ignorant. They are committing political suicide, fine with me, except they are hurting the economy with their political tactics. Americans are catching on to the fact that refusal to negotiate, over something that has never been used as a political tactic, proves that they are impotent to legislate.

Boehner is proving that his job is beyond his ability.

Cantor and McConnell, are chomping at the bit, to replace Boehner.

Moody's is already throwing out a flare, to the Repiglican idiots.

And you think all is well!

Stunning ignorance, but no surprise. And, where are all of those jobs REpiglicans kept yapping about???

Over eighty anti-abortion bills, and not a single jobs bill yet, and in fact, Repiglican governors are destroying jobs at every turn!



LIARS!

G.
</div></div>

I would object to the Nanny State even if it were paid for by the generation that 'benefits' from it but the truth is that it the liberal utopia is economic suicide. Not only has the public debt grown out of control but the unfunded mandates total well over $100 tillion so when our government invokes 'the full faith and credit', it is indenturing our kids and grandkids with our excess demands. What of their 'freedom'? What of our responsibility?

The truth is that the Republicans are not going far enough to get us back on track. Even though their rhetoric strikes the right tone occasionally, we have managed to entice so many people into dependency on checks from the state that any solutions become politically untenable.

We must get on a track and totally dismantle the Nanny State, most especially entitlements if we are ever to restore to the future of succeeding generations the freedom and opportunity that we inherited. It will, no doubt, take a long time and be painful to undo the damage that the 'something for nothing' crowd has wrought but ideally, getting on the right track will help finance the bad decisions we have made historically.

Now, I ask you Gayle, wouldn't you rather bequeath freedom to your grandkids than debt?

LWW
07-14-2011, 08:44 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now, I ask you Gayle, wouldn't you rather bequeath freedom to your grandkids than debt? </div></div>

I can't believe you asked that question.

In the collectivist mob/hive mentality of the cabal ...

<span style='font-size: 26pt'>WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH</span>

Soflasnapper
07-14-2011, 10:37 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't you ever tire of changing the subject and building straw men to attack? </div></div>

I disagree that this was a straw man or a change of subject. It was on point.

My discussion was to the point of arguing the easy solution from the guy you quoted was not so easy as he said, because of the missing two months. As indeed the two months of spending vs income was not addressed, it was a fair point. The current post you now complain about is to show how much of a problem the two elided months represent.

llotter
07-14-2011, 12:24 PM
The straw man in this case was that neither of your points were valid and in this case, as well as the thread about the 10 poorest cities you attack the integrity of the original authors rather than address the post.

Gayle in MD
07-14-2011, 01:03 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The title is the 'worst-case scenario' but after reading it you could more likely conclude that not raising the debt limit would be the best-case scenario.

http://www.americanthinker.com/printpage...e_scenario.html (http://www.americanthinker.com/printpage/?url=http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/../2011/07/debt_ceiling_worst_case_scenario.html) </div></div>

BULL!

Are you really THAT uninformed?

Stunning! Repiglicans are destablizing the credit markets. Repiglicans are unrealistic, and ignorant. They are committing political suicide, fine with me, except they are hurting the economy with their political tactics. Americans are catching on to the fact that refusal to negotiate, over something that has never been used as a political tactic, proves that they are impotent to legislate.

Boehner is proving that his job is beyond his ability.

Cantor and McConnell, are chomping at the bit, to replace Boehner.

Moody's is already throwing out a flare, to the Repiglican idiots.

And you think all is well!

Stunning ignorance, but no surprise. And, where are all of those jobs REpiglicans kept yapping about???

Over eighty anti-abortion bills, and not a single jobs bill yet, and in fact, Repiglican governors are destroying jobs at every turn!



LIARS!

G.
</div></div>

I would object to the Nanny State even if it were paid for by the generation that 'benefits' from it but the truth is that it the liberal utopia is economic suicide. Not only has the public debt grown out of control but the unfunded mandates total well over $100 tillion so when our government invokes 'the full faith and credit', it is indenturing our kids and grandkids with our excess demands. What of their 'freedom'? What of our responsibility?


<span style="color: #990000">Do you ever address the points made in other people's posts? </span>

The truth is that the Republicans are not going far enough to get us back on track. Even though their rhetoric strikes the right tone occasionally, we have managed to entice so many people into dependency on checks from the state that any solutions become politically untenable.


<span style="color: #990000">Our debts were a result of warring while cutting taxes, during the Bush/Repigliocan blank check majority, failing to address the economic issues which were driving our economy into the ditch, like a corrupt Wall Street, corrupt Lending and insurance Industries, and Bush's "OPwnership Society" which ushered in unrealistic interest rates, by Repiglican Alan Greenspan, and a "Look the other way" philosophy in the SEC, and in Wall street rating Agencies.

Those enticed into dependency on checks from the state???? If you check out the vast loss of revenue from the Bush Tax Cuts, you'll find plenty enough money to meet our American values, of giving some aid to those less fortunate, and seeing that the ill, the old and the hungry, do not go the way of similarly suffering people in third world countries.

The wealth has been redistributed to the top, wealthiest Americans, on the backs of the rest, who do not have access to loopholes, and subsidies, nor to a top of the line education, or to the best Health Care, and Health Insurance, that money can buy.

Yet, these same billionaires, who hide their money offshore, and outsource our jobs, not only get tax loopholes, but subsidies from our government, AND collect Social Security, AND go on Medicare when they are old enough, thereby hoarding even more of the wealth of the country, many of them after having polluted the envioronment, fired Anerican employees so they could turn thhe company assets into more money in their own pockets, AND outsourced American jobs, AND thrown others out of their HC Insurance policies. Is that what you call liberty and freedom???? Equal opportunity???? Fair Market Economics??? </span>

We must get on a track and totally dismantle the Nanny State,


<span style="color: #990000">That's fine, but make sure you are aware of where most of our tax dollars are being spent!!!! Where and byy whom trillions in tax revenues are being hidden, and by whom!!!!

Where and by whom, much of the costly illnesses caused by polluting corporations, originate!!!!

I can assure you that between corporate loopholes, hidden tax dollars, subsidy advantages from our tax structure, our economy suffers from an unfair tax structure, by which the wealthiest pay the least of what they rightfully owe.

When twenty percent of the wealth, is owned by one percent of the population, hence, how can a service, and retail economy survive???

The top one and a half percent, are NOT job creators, as all government charts prove, including labor statistics.</span>

most especially entitlements

<span style="color: #990000">We don't have entitlements in this country, we have social insurance, which provide for those who are old, ill and/or poor. These are not people who were lazy, or on the dole, these are hard working Amerricans, who have watched their wages go down into the dumpster, while the Repiglicans continued to bring about a redistribution of our wealth, upwards, in their unfair tax codes, unfair loopholes, and their general social engineering, advantaging the wealthiest, and charging it all to the Middle Class. </span>



if we are ever to restore to the future of succeeding generations the freedom and opportunity that we inherited.

<span style="color: #990000"> <span style='font-size: 14pt'> BWA HA HA HA HA! Bush and the blank check REpiglicans started charging everything to future generations way back in 2002!!!! didn't hear you complaining about it back then. Our worst debts, are still the result of Bush's Administration!!! Bush's wars. Bush's owenership society. the Halliburton Loopholes, the costs of which have never been calculated, according to the health devastations which resulted. </span> </span>


It will, no doubt, take a long time and be painful to undo the damage that the 'something for nothing' crowd has wrought but ideally, getting on the right track will help finance the bad decisions we have made historically.

<span style="color: #990000"> Yes, well you can find that "something for nothing crowd, on the golf Courses, living in mansions behind gates, flying around in their own designer jets, and cruising on their yachts to their hidden bank accounts, off shore! But, I call them the "Plenty for Nothing" entitled, though, because that is how much REpiglicans have made it legal for them to steal from all of the rest of us!</span>

Now, I ask you Gayle, wouldn't you rather bequeath freedom to your grandkids than debt? </div></div>


<span style="color: #990000">Don't ask me, ask the Repiglicans, and George W, Bush, who were the ones who stole their futures away from them!

Ask Bachmann, Boehner, McConnell, Frist, Cheney, Ensign, Jordan, Kay Baily Hutchison, Palin, Barbour, rumsfeld, as all of the Repiglicans who lost and threw away billions upon billions in the Middle East, to secure oil contracts for thheir wealthy energy CEO's, while they bilked the country out of trillions in revenues with their idiotic, unfair, unrealistic, and skewed tax cuts, and their grossly expensive, and un-necessary wars, unpaid for prescription drug programs, growing debts, none of which they bothered to pay for, and all of which deprived our country of trillions of dollars, while they passed off all of the debts to that next generattion you are suddenly, and so very late, in getting around to worrying about!

G. </span>