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View Full Version : Handwriting on wall, GOP's humiliating walkback



Soflasnapper
07-17-2011, 01:25 PM
They are using the trusted Paul Ryan to make their case to their freshmen TParty-crazed caucus. (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-debt-talks-20110716,0,3724140.story)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Reporting from Washington—
Republican leaders in the House have begun to prepare their troops for politically painful votes to raise the nation's debt limit, offering warnings and concessions to move the hard-line majority toward a compromise that would avert a federal default.

For weeks, GOP conservatives, particularly in the House, have issued demands about what they would require in exchange for their votes to increase the debt limit. In negotiations with the White House, Republican leaders have found those demands were unattainable. Unwilling to risk the economic and political consequences of a federal default, which could come as early as Aug. 2, they have started the difficult process of standing down.

At a closed-door meeting Friday morning, GOP leaders turned to their most trusted budget expert, Rep. Paul D. Ryan of Wisconsin, to explain to rank-and-file members what many others have come to understand: A fiscal meltdown could occur if Congress fails to raise the debt ceiling.

House Speaker John A. Boehner of Ohio underscored the point to dispel the notion that failure to allow more borrowing is an option.

"He said if we pass Aug. 2, it would be like 'Star Wars,'" said Rep. Scott DesJarlais, a freshman from Tennessee. "I don't think the people who are railing against raising the debt ceiling fully understand that."

The warnings appeared to have softened the views of at least some House members who, until now, were inclined to dismiss statements by administration officials, business leaders and outside economists that the economic impact would be dire if the federal government were suddenly unable to pay its bills.

Freshman Rep. Steve Womack (R-Ark.) said the presentation about skyrocketing interest rates that could result from downgraded bond ratings was "sobering."</div></div>

LWW
07-17-2011, 01:42 PM
If the RINO's cave they have no clue what they will have unleashed against themselves.

Stretch
07-17-2011, 02:20 PM
Well if they didn't "cave" they also would not know what was unleashed upon them. The only thing the same in both scenerio's is that they have no clue. St.

LWW
07-17-2011, 02:25 PM
Seriously ... what do you think would happen if no deal is reached?

Stretch
07-17-2011, 02:40 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seriously ... what do you think would happen if no deal is reached? </div></div>

For one, the cost of borrowing would skyrocket, as well it would hurt companys like banks who hold US debt as core reserves. It would be inevitable that interest rates would go way up killing an economy already on life support. St.

LWW
07-17-2011, 04:24 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stretch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seriously ... what do you think would happen if no deal is reached? </div></div>

For one, the cost of borrowing would skyrocket, St. </div></div>

Why?

1 - The gubmint would be doing no borrowing.

2 - Their is plenty sufficient income to cover interest, principle due, SSI, MEDICARE, all govt pensions and the military.

So, seriously, on what basis do you believe this?

IMHO the polar opposite would result from a serious effort to get state spending under control.

Capital that is sucked into the state is capital than cannot be used in the private sector to spur growth.

The biggest issues currently facing the US economy is that capital for economic expansion is still quite tight, and businesses make plans years out and our current tax/spending future is very much in the air.

cushioncrawler
07-17-2011, 05:09 PM
I would like to see the circus continue.
The usofa will deserve what it will get.
Karnt wait.
I might get Fox cable.
mac.

Sev
07-17-2011, 05:15 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stretch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seriously ... what do you think would happen if no deal is reached? </div></div>

For one, the cost of borrowing would skyrocket, as well it would hurt companys like banks who hold US debt as core reserves. It would be inevitable that interest rates would go way up killing an economy already on life support. St. </div></div>

I say let the government fail. Let it effect all levels of society.
Generating abject hatred of the federal government would be the single best thing that could happen so that we may tare it down.

Soflasnapper
07-17-2011, 06:11 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the RINO's cave they have no clue what they will have unleashed against themselves. </div></div>

YES THEY DO.

That's the reason it's taking so long to bring them to their senses. The huge political risk, that they have now brought themselves by recklessly talking up a tough guy party bluff.

Soflasnapper
07-17-2011, 06:14 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seriously ... what do you think would happen if no deal is reached? </div></div>

I doubt anyone knows for sure. So you say, trust me, what could possibly go wrong?

Moody's and other rating agencies have said every municipality would also lose its AAA rating (those that have it, that is) if the US default comes a cropper.

Soflasnapper
07-17-2011, 06:17 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stretch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seriously ... what do you think would happen if no deal is reached? </div></div>

For one, the cost of borrowing would skyrocket, as well it would hurt companys like banks who hold US debt as core reserves. It would be inevitable that interest rates would go way up killing an economy already on life support. St. </div></div>

I say let the government fail. Let it effect all levels of society.
Generating abject hatred of the federal government would be the single best thing that could happen so that we may tare it down. </div></div>

This is the position of the actual Tea Party itself, I think. Not that there wouldn't be massive damage, but that we should cause this massive damage ourselves, for no particularly good reason, and without any idea of the carnage that would ensue.

BTW, this is not a conservative position in any true meaning of that word. It's closer to an anarchist's position.

Anarchy is the enemy of all people and of business as well, except ammo and gun dealers. Not everyone has your arsenal.

LWW
07-18-2011, 02:25 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seriously ... what do you think would happen if no deal is reached? </div></div>

I doubt anyone knows for sure. So you say, trust me, what could possibly go wrong?</div></div>

So you have no reason to believe it will be a disaster ... other than the regime tells you that you believe it will be a disaster?

And, OTOH, we all know the end result of continuing the ways of the past.

Only bots would follow a pied piper and accept sure destruction rather than risk short term discomfort to fix the problem.

LWW
07-18-2011, 02:26 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not everyone has your arsenal. </div></div>

That's because they trust the state to care for them.

LWW
07-18-2011, 02:29 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seriously ... what do you think would happen if no deal is reached? </div></div>

I doubt anyone knows for sure. So you say, trust me, what could possibly go wrong?

Moody's and other rating agencies have said every municipality would also lose its AAA rating (those that have it, that is) if the US default comes a cropper. </div></div>

Documented by?

Qtec
07-18-2011, 05:17 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2 - Their [ sic- There ] is plenty sufficient income to cover interest, principle due, SSI, MEDICARE, all govt pensions and the military. </div></div>

So what doesn't get paid?

Q

Sev
07-18-2011, 06:50 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stretch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seriously ... what do you think would happen if no deal is reached? </div></div>

For one, the cost of borrowing would skyrocket, as well it would hurt companys like banks who hold US debt as core reserves. It would be inevitable that interest rates would go way up killing an economy already on life support. St. </div></div>

I say let the government fail. Let it effect all levels of society.
Generating abject hatred of the federal government would be the single best thing that could happen so that we may tare it down. </div></div>

This is the position of the actual Tea Party itself, I think. Not that there wouldn't be massive damage, but that we should cause this massive damage ourselves, for no particularly good reason, and without any idea of the carnage that would ensue.

BTW, this is not a conservative position in any true meaning of that word. It's closer to an anarchist's position.

Anarchy is the enemy of all people and of business as well, except ammo and gun dealers. Not everyone has your arsenal. </div></div>

Its being inflicted on us like a slow growing cancer. The longer it goes on the worse the end will be.

Get is over with. Chances are no matter what happens our AAA rating is going to be downgraded to AA.
The economy is not improving no matter how they spin it. That certain sectors are doing better than others means little. The country is still shedding jobs and business's. They already revised the estimate for the housing market. I heard 7 years before it recovers now.

Every day the European financial situation becomes worse and closer to collapse. That will act like tsunami for our economy as the shock waves move through the international market. The antics in Washington may prove to be a moot point in the very near future.

We are living in a financial house of cards that needs to be kick over so that we can restructure the government so this type of situation can not arise again.
The financial parlor shop games in Washington are destroying the nation.
Both sides are guilty of it and both sides need to be punished.

The government is not the solution. It is the problem.

As far as my "arsenal" goes.
Intelligent people invest in lead and brass. Allowing ones self to be completely at the mercy of others in bad times is not an intellectually sound decision.

Soflasnapper
07-18-2011, 10:55 AM
An interesting position. Complaints that Obama's policies have not made things better enough, but really, the answer is to make things a lot worse anyway? Because it's inevitable, and might as well get it over with?

If it were a short, sharp shock, that might be one thing, and I might agree. But there's no reason to think it might not go on a decade or more, and with enough privation to spark civil disorder and the imposition of martial law, although tyrannical overreach of the government is also the stated concern. We would not likely re-emerge with any kind of republic, but maybe a military junta.

And I doubt you have enough ammo for a 10 year siege.

Soflasnapper
07-18-2011, 10:59 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seriously ... what do you think would happen if no deal is reached? </div></div>

I doubt anyone knows for sure. So you say, trust me, what could possibly go wrong?

Moody's and other rating agencies have said every municipality would also lose its AAA rating (those that have it, that is) if the US default comes a cropper. </div></div>

Documented by? </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Moody's warns may downgrade U.S. muni debt ratings
reuters

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On Wednesday June 29, 2011, 10:39 pm EDT

By Walter Brandimarte

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Moody's on Wednesday warned it may downgrade some Aaa-rated U.S. states and municipalities if the country loses its top-notch rating or if federal funding falls significantly as part of a plan to reduce the nation's deficit.

Most states and some municipalities rely on federal funding for operational purposes. The most susceptible to federal budget cuts would be those with greater economic volatility and that rely more heavily on capital markets to refinance their debt, Moody's senior analyst Anne Van Praagh told Reuters in an interview.

"To the extent that Treasuries markets are volatile (in the case of a U.S. default and downgrade), then that could pass through in the form of additional interest costs for states or local governments," she said.</div></div>

Some, if perhaps not all. (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Moodys-warns-may-downgrade-US-rb-179865864.html?x=0)

Soflasnapper
07-18-2011, 11:09 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seriously ... what do you think would happen if no deal is reached? </div></div>

I doubt anyone knows for sure. So you say, trust me, what could possibly go wrong?</div></div>

So you have no reason to believe it will be a disaster ... other than the regime tells you that you believe it will be a disaster?

And, OTOH, we all know the end result of continuing the ways of the past.

Only bots would follow a pied piper and accept sure destruction rather than risk short term discomfort to fix the problem. </div></div>

I am listening to experts in the field of economics and banking. You are listening to lawyers with no such knowledge, at best, or political hacks, at worst.

Back when the GOP was more factually grounded in its positions, and Reagan listened to his experts, he took a position close to mine. Nowadays, as the GOP has turned instead into a Know-Nothing caucus (even people on the right call it 'the stupid party' -- see Michele Malkin for one), and disdains any and all expert advice, they turn instead to inchoate rage and Fox commentators to decide what they think.

LWW
07-18-2011, 02:23 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2 - Their [ sic- There ] is plenty sufficient income to cover interest, principle due, SSI, MEDICARE, all govt pensions and the military. </div></div>

So what doesn't get paid?

Q </div></div>

<span style='font-size: 26pt'>LEARN (http://www.americanthinker.com/printpage/?url=http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/../2011/07/debt_ceiling_worst_case_scenario.html)</span>

LWW
07-18-2011, 02:28 PM
So you read an article claiming some might and passed that along as everyone would ... interesting, not surprising but interesting.

Now ... if you actually read and digest what your link is telling you, it would become clear that these few municipalities have a AAA rating not because they deserve it but because the federal gubmint forces the cold steel bayonet of the state into the spine of credit worthy Americans and forces them to pay for the excesses of those who aren't.

The sad thing is, is that this is the left's idea of what America should be about.

LWW
07-18-2011, 02:31 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seriously ... what do you think would happen if no deal is reached? </div></div>

I doubt anyone knows for sure. So you say, trust me, what could possibly go wrong?</div></div>

So you have no reason to believe it will be a disaster ... other than the regime tells you that you believe it will be a disaster?

And, OTOH, we all know the end result of continuing the ways of the past.

Only bots would follow a pied piper and accept sure destruction rather than risk short term discomfort to fix the problem. </div></div>

I am listening to experts in the field of economics and banking. You are listening to lawyers with no such knowledge, at best, or political hacks, at worst.

Back when the GOP was more factually grounded in its positions, and Reagan listened to his experts, he took a position close to mine. Nowadays, as the GOP has turned instead into a Know-Nothing caucus (even people on the right call it 'the stupid party' -- see Michele Malkin for one), and disdains any and all expert advice, they turn instead to inchoate rage and Fox commentators to decide what they think. </div></div>

Actually what you are doing is wearing the blinders installed by the regime to keep you from seeing what your own links are actually telling you.

As an example ... in your logic if you read that Bill Gates's deadbeat relative might get their car repossessed if their co-signer (Bill Gates) dies, therefore every car in America will be repossessed if Mr Gates dies.

Soflasnapper
07-19-2011, 05:16 PM
Stupid party is as stupid party does.

I swear, the powers that be have infected O's opposition with madness to a degree the people can now see it, to better effect his re-election.

Why are you falling for it? God knows we need an effective (but sane) GOP in this country. This isn't it.

LWW
07-20-2011, 02:15 AM
Why isn't it?

Did Obama not run promising to cut the deficit in half?

Didn't you slavishly agree with the promise?

Did Obama's regime not increase the deficit many times over?

Didn't you slavishly agree with them doing it?

Has Obama not struggled mightily to thwart any and every attempt to reduce the deficit?

Didn't you slavishly agree with him for so doing?

And then you have the audacity to question the sanity of others?

LWW
07-20-2011, 02:59 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stupid party is as stupid party does.</div></div>

You read this:

"NEW YORK (Reuters) - Moody's on Wednesday warned it <span style='font-size: 14pt'><u>may</u></span> downgrade <span style='font-size: 14pt'><u>some</u></span> Aaa-rated U.S. states and municipalities <span style='font-size: 14pt'><u>if</u></span> the country loses its top-notch rating or <span style='font-size: 14pt'><u>if</u></span> federal funding falls significantly as part of a plan to reduce the nation's deficit."

and came up with this:

"Moody's and other rating agencies have said <span style='font-size: 14pt'><u>every municipality would also lose its AAA rating</u></span> (those that have it, that is) if the US default comes a cropper. "

and you call others stupid?

Precious, simply precious.

Gayle in MD
07-20-2011, 07:31 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seriously ... what do you think would happen if no deal is reached? </div></div>

I doubt anyone knows for sure. So you say, trust me, what could possibly go wrong?</div></div>

So you have no reason to believe it will be a disaster ... other than the regime tells you that you believe it will be a disaster?

And, OTOH, we all know the end result of continuing the ways of the past.

Only bots would follow a pied piper and accept sure destruction rather than risk short term discomfort to fix the problem. </div></div>

I am listening to experts in the field of economics and banking. You are listening to lawyers with no such knowledge, at best, or political hacks, at worst.

Back when the GOP was more factually grounded in its positions, and Reagan listened to his experts, he took a position close to mine. Nowadays, as the GOP has turned instead into a Know-Nothing caucus (even people on the right call it 'the stupid party' -- see Michele Malkin for one), and disdains any and all expert advice, they turn instead to inchoate rage and Fox commentators to decide what they think. </div></div>

Seems there are quite a few of the old line Republicans, who are horrified by the changes in their party, now that it is full of clueless idiots, suffering from narcisscism and Tourettes, Repiglicans are quite crippling to any serious progress for the country!

I take comfort in knowing that most people in our country are disgusted with the Republican policies, AND their candidates, as is reflected by polling data, showing that Repiglican approval numbers are the lowest on the totem pole.

G.

LWW
07-20-2011, 08:07 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seriously ... what do you think would happen if no deal is reached? </div></div>

I doubt anyone knows for sure. So you say, trust me, what could possibly go wrong?</div></div>

So you have no reason to believe it will be a disaster ... other than the regime tells you that you believe it will be a disaster?

And, OTOH, we all know the end result of continuing the ways of the past.

Only bots would follow a pied piper and accept sure destruction rather than risk short term discomfort to fix the problem. </div></div>

I am listening to experts in the field of economics and banking. You are listening to lawyers with no such knowledge, at best, or political hacks, at worst.

Back when the GOP was more factually grounded in its positions, and Reagan listened to his experts, he took a position close to mine. Nowadays, as the GOP has turned instead into a Know-Nothing caucus (even people on the right call it 'the stupid party' -- see Michele Malkin for one), and disdains any and all expert advice, they turn instead to inchoate rage and Fox commentators to decide what they think. </div></div>

<s>Seems there are quite a few of the old line Republicans, who are horrified by the changes in their party, now that it is full of clueless idiots, suffering from narcisscism and Tourettes, Repiglicans are quite crippling to any serious progress for the country!

I take comfort in knowing that most people in our country are disgusted with the Republican policies, AND their candidates, as is reflected by polling data, showing that Repiglican approval numbers are the lowest on the totem pole.</s>

[TRANSLATED]

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h219/pjcomix/blog/crybaby1.jpg

<span style='font-size: 11pt'>WE WANT THE BOB DOLE, JOHN MC CAIN, DENNIS HASTERT RINOS BACK IN CHARGE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY!</span>

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>WHAAAAAAA ... WHAAAAAAA ... WHAAAAAAA ...</span>

http://rlv.zcache.com/its_all_bushs_fault_crybaby_barack_obama_shirt_mou sepad-p144272024754864326trak_400.jpg

G.



</div></div>

Gayle in MD
07-20-2011, 09:25 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stupid party is as stupid party does.

I swear, the powers that be have infected O's opposition with madness to a degree the people can now see it, to better effect his re-election.

Why are you falling for it? God knows we need an effective (but sane) GOP in this country. This isn't it. </div></div>

And, the rest of the country know that, all but the Tea Party sheep, that is.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43813173/ns/politics/#

Gayle in MD
07-20-2011, 09:36 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stretch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seriously ... what do you think would happen if no deal is reached? </div></div>

For one, the cost of borrowing would skyrocket, as well it would hurt companys like banks who hold US debt as core reserves. It would be inevitable that interest rates would go way up killing an economy already on life support. St. </div></div>

So true, and Repigs are proving their lack of reason to even consider promoting their fear mongering tactics, during a fragile recovery.

Frankly, it's been a pleasure to watch as Americans turn against Repiglican FASCIST policies in verry large numbers, and watching this party of NO, dig their own grave!

Things are going swimmingly!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43813173/ns/politics/#

Soflasnapper
07-20-2011, 09:58 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stupid party is as stupid party does.</div></div>

You read this:

"NEW YORK (Reuters) - Moody's on Wednesday warned it <span style='font-size: 14pt'><u>may</u></span> downgrade <span style='font-size: 14pt'><u>some</u></span> Aaa-rated U.S. states and municipalities <span style='font-size: 14pt'><u>if</u></span> the country loses its top-notch rating or <span style='font-size: 14pt'><u>if</u></span> federal funding falls significantly as part of a plan to reduce the nation's deficit."

and came up with this:

"Moody's and other rating agencies have said <span style='font-size: 14pt'><u>every municipality would also lose its AAA rating</u></span> (those that have it, that is) if the US default comes a cropper. "

and you call others stupid?

Precious, simply precious. </div></div>

Right, although you hardly needed to point out what I flagged myself when I provided the link to the report you asked a cite for. Some could, not all would. Far less dire, but still a dire potential outcome.

LWW
07-20-2011, 10:08 AM
Some could get hit by a meteor during this November's Leonids also ... the point is that you read something that was a spoon fed exaggeration and then stretched it to proportions that would embarrass Chicken Little.

Soflasnapper
07-20-2011, 10:21 AM
Why isn't it?

Did Obama not run promising to cut the deficit in half?

Yes, he did. His plan included specifically not extending the Bush tax rate cuts for the top bracket when they expired, and he was not able to accomplish that given the extreme GOP opposition to that part of the deficit reduction program.

Didn't you slavishly agree with the promise?

Not at all. I did not. Never did. Why would assume that, given no evidence whatsoever to support that claim?

Did Obama's regime not increase the deficit many times over?

Not true, unless a 16.7% increase is 'many times over.' (CBO's projection as I've linked to said it would be $1.2 trillion, and it went up that year instead to $1.4 trillion or so).

Didn't you slavishly agree with them doing it?


Since they didn't do that, this is an improper question. Did I think it wise to slightly increase the deficit? Yes, but it wasn't an unconsidered slavish assent, but an informed assent. It actually should have been a larger temporary increase in the deficit to be more effective than it was. It was too small a stimulus and an increase in the deficit, as many can be found to say.

Has Obama not struggled mightily to thwart any and every attempt to reduce the deficit?

No, that's ridiculous. Ending the tax rate cut for the top bracket would have cut the deficit-- he favored that and tried to get it, and it was his opponents who prevented that. Honoring the W deadline for withdrawal of combat troops in Iraq cut our expenses there, cutting the deficit, and O has done that deficit reducing action. O has put in a wage freeze, which will (slightly) reduce the deficit in the future. And of course, he's been recently offering the big deal, involving over $4 trillion in spending cuts over a 10 year time horizon, plus asking for additional revenues, both of which would cut the deficits.

Didn't you slavishly agree with him for so doing?

Again not a proper question, lacking a true predicate. You haven't paid attention, as I have often opposed the specifics of most O plans. I find some of the above objectionable, as the big deal relies on squeezing the most vulnerable, the elderly and the sick.

And then you have the audacity to question the sanity of others?

There must be some reason for such a false and incoherent take as yours. Tell me some alternative answer, if you claim full sanity.

Soflasnapper
07-20-2011, 10:30 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stupid party is as stupid party does.</div></div>

You read this:

"NEW YORK (Reuters) - Moody's on Wednesday warned it <span style='font-size: 14pt'><u>may</u></span> downgrade <span style='font-size: 14pt'><u>some</u></span> Aaa-rated U.S. states and municipalities <span style='font-size: 14pt'><u>if</u></span> the country loses its top-notch rating or <span style='font-size: 14pt'><u>if</u></span> federal funding falls significantly as part of a plan to reduce the nation's deficit."

and came up with this:

"Moody's and other rating agencies have said <span style='font-size: 14pt'><u>every municipality would also lose its AAA rating</u></span> (those that have it, that is) if the US default comes a cropper. "

and you call others stupid?

Precious, simply precious. </div></div>

Here's a great example of the difference between us.

I misremembered something I'd read a week or so ago, and paraphrased it wrongly. When I re-read the article, I saw I was wrong, and mentioned I'd mischaracterized it, and was wrong, as part of the link.

You do this all the time with the link in front of you, directly linked in your thread, not as a memory issue apparently, but a reading issue. Then when it's pointed out that the source actually doesn't say what you said it says, you object that the objection is a false blind defense of dear leader, and that your false rendition is still true.

I attempt to admit and correct my errors. You dig in, say your patent errors are correct, and your critics are dishonest shills who have no point in their corrections.

LWW
07-20-2011, 03:35 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did Obama's regime not increase the deficit many times over?

Not true, unless a 16.7% increase is 'many times over.' (CBO's projection as I've linked to said it would be $1.2 trillion, and it went up that year instead to $1.4 trillion or so).</div></div>

Are you denying that when senator Obama took office with the democrook congress that the "MESS THEY INHERITED" consisted of an annual deficit that was a small fraction of what it is today?

Are you denying that as recently as 2008 CBO (http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/93xx/doc9385/06-17-LTBO_Testimony.pdf) was projecting that we wouldn't reach the federal gubmint consuming 25% of GDP until 2082?

LWW
07-20-2011, 03:37 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You haven't paid attention, as I have often opposed the specifics of most O plans. </div></div>

You keep saying that ... yet the only actual objection that I can recall is that you didn't think he wasn't enough of a moonbat crazy leftist.

LWW
07-20-2011, 03:40 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Has Obama not struggled mightily to thwart any and every attempt to reduce the deficit?

No, that's ridiculous. Ending the tax rate cut for the top bracket would have cut the deficit-- he favored that and tried to get it, and it was his opponents who prevented that. </div></div>

No. what you posed is ridiculous.

As have been demonstrated ad infinitum is that the tax cuts flooded the treasury ... and congress pizzed it away.

As has also been shown is that the democrooks practicing stupidonoimics has not only exploded spending but imploded the tax base.

LWW
07-20-2011, 03:42 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And then you have the audacity to question the sanity of others?

There must be some reason for such a false and incoherent take as yours. Tell me some alternative answer, if you claim full sanity. </div></div>

Your <s>inabaility</s> unwillingness to digest non party approved data is not my problem to correct.

LWW
07-20-2011, 03:44 PM
That was simply precious.

The difference between you and I is that I see reality and deal with it, while you bury your head in the sand and create a new reality between your ears.

Soflasnapper
07-20-2011, 03:55 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did Obama's regime not increase the deficit many times over?

Not true, unless a 16.7% increase is 'many times over.' (CBO's projection as I've linked to said it would be $1.2 trillion, and it went up that year instead to $1.4 trillion or so).</div></div>

Are you denying that when senator Obama took office with the democrook congress that the "MESS THEY INHERITED" consisted of an annual deficit that was a small fraction of what it is today?

Are you denying that as recently as 2008 CBO (http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/93xx/doc9385/06-17-LTBO_Testimony.pdf) was projecting that we wouldn't reach the federal gubmint consuming 25% of GDP until 2082? </div></div>

Yes, and the Titanic was making excellent time, about to set the trans-Atlantic crossing record, for 99.99% of its journey.

Something. Happened.

Soflasnapper
07-20-2011, 03:57 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You haven't paid attention, as I have often opposed the specifics of most O plans. </div></div>

You keep saying that ... yet the only actual objection that I can recall is that you didn't think he wasn't enough of a moonbat crazy leftist. </div></div>

I have termed his, and the Democratic Party's, current policy direction, soft fascism, a velvet gloved-chain mail fist.

Which is hardly an endorsement.

Sev
07-20-2011, 07:23 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You haven't paid attention, as I have often opposed the specifics of most O plans. </div></div>

You keep saying that ... yet the only actual objection that I can recall is that you didn't think he wasn't enough of a moonbat crazy leftist. </div></div>

I have termed his, and the Democratic Party's, current policy direction, soft fascism, a velvet gloved-chain mail fist.

Which is hardly an endorsement. </div></div>

You read Levins book then?

cushioncrawler
07-20-2011, 08:39 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.....Yes, and the Titanic was making excellent time, about to set the trans-Atlantic crossing record, for 99.99% of its journey. Something. Happened....</div></div>USS ENTERPRIZE (2007)
mac..... Mr Friedman, congratulations on your YesBull SurPrize for Krappynomix Science.
Milton........ Thanku very much.
mac..... We all take MacroKrappynomix for granted now, but in the oldendayz navigation woz more a matter of luck than science.
Milton....... Yes. In the oldendayz ships had Captains and big rudders.
mac..... What about Maynard Keynes – in hiz paper “Iceburgs, LifeBoats, LifeJackets, and Drowning”, he theorized that HMS Titanic didn’t hav enuff lifeBoats.
Milton....... Yes, but this iz completely contrary to modern Krappynomix. I mean, here we hav a ship with a double hull, unsinkable, yet the passengers’ confidence woz entirely destroyed simply by having lifeboats, albeit a small number, in full view.
mac..... Confidence iz the key.
Milton....... Yes, passenger confidence iz the number one main paramount thing with navigation. I karnt stress this too much.
mac..... But, HMS Titanic didn’t hav a big rudder.
Milton....... Yes, but it would hav been much better with a much smaller rudder, in fakt, in an ideal world, zero rudder.
mac..... What about the danger of icebergs, and drownings.
Milton....... A small level of drownings iz acceptable, in fakt, in our system, necessary – about 10% iz a good number. Look, with zero drownings things would heat up, and then glaciers would spawn even more icebergs. All Krappynomicysts agree on this.
mac..... The lifeJackets didn’t help much.
Milton....... No, of course not – inflation (spit) iz the big problem here. I mean, sure, u kood hav twice az many lifeJackets, and they kood be twice az big allso, but this would do more harm than good. It would simply give rize to inflationary (spit) pressures.
mac..... Inflation iz a Krappynomicysts major fear.
Milton....... Exaktly. It duznt matter how bad thingz get, if u had high inflation (spit) thingz would be much much worse. Putting it another way, if u had zero inflation then passenger confidence would be high no matter what happened.
mac..... And passenger confidence iz paramount. Milton....... Exaktly.
mac..... Changing the subjekt -- it looks like there iz likely to be a YesBull SurPrize this year for MicroKrappynomix Science.
Milton....... Yes, one of my ex-students haz dunn some excellent theorizing on MicroKrappynomix. And, seeing az none of hiz theory can ever be prooven correct or incorrect, I think that a YesBull SurPrize shood be awarded.
mac..... This theory iz about swimming lessons.
Milton....... Yes. Hiz paper iz about “Swimming Lessons, Anchors, and Drowning”. He showz how fewer swimmers would drown if lifeSavers were properly equipped with anchors.
mac..... But lifeSavers hav allwayz thrown anchors to drowning people.
Milton....... Yes, but ordinary anchors rust. How can a rusty anchor do much good in the long-term, when what a drowner really needz iz a golden anchor, or at least a silver anchor.
mac..... What about a goldPlated anchor.
Milton....... No, no, no, no, no. It must be solid gold or solid silver. Its lucky for us that Treasury happenz to hav thousands of tons of solid gold anchors buryd somewhere -- if they were simply gold plated then swimming simply wouldnt exist and nobody would hav the constitutional right to drown.
mac..... And swimming lessons do more harm than good.
Milton....... Yes, swimming lessons are nothing but pure socialist (spit) dogma, favored only by left wing extremists. And, swimming lessons are unconstitutional -- if the Foundling Farters had favored swimming lessons, then they would hav written them into the Constitution.
mac..... Well, thank u Professor Friedman. I look forward to talking with u after our next dizaster, probly next year.

Gayle in MD
07-20-2011, 09:17 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You haven't paid attention, as I have often opposed the specifics of most O plans. </div></div>

You keep saying that ... yet the only actual objection that I can recall is that you didn't think he wasn't enough of a moonbat crazy leftist. </div></div>

I have termed his, and the Democratic Party's, current policy direction, soft fascism, a velvet gloved-chain mail fist.

Which is hardly an endorsement. </div></div>


How Sofla? How are Democratic policies, fascist?

G.

cushioncrawler
07-20-2011, 09:35 PM
Terry KrepelConWebWatch.com founder and editor, Media Matters senior editor Posted: May 15, 2009 01:09 AM BIO Become a Fan Get Email Alerts Bloggers' Index Liberty and Tyranny -- And Misinformation

For all of the conservative media's rapturous reviews of radio host Mark Levin's new book, Liberty and Tyranny, you'd think the book would have something new to say.

Rush Limbaugh, for instance, found the book "readable, understandable, inspiring." The Washington Times insisted it "will convert many Americans to conservative thought the way Milton Friedman's Newsweek essays converted an earlier generation." Terry Jeffrey effused that Levin "writes with unmatched authority and clarity about the conservative vision."

In reality, Levin's book is just right-wing talking points served up in a different format -- as the beliefs of "Conservatives" and how they differ from "Statists" (spoiler: conservatives are good, statists are bad), concluded by a bullet-point "conservative manifesto." Anyone familiar with hard-right conservative ideology already knows what's in it.

Term limits for judges? Yep. Flat tax? Sure. Eliminate tenure for teachers and unions for federal employees? Check. Attacks on immigration and "multiculturalism"? Check. Calling Social Security "a scheme whereby a grandparent would be stealing future earnings from his own grandchild"? Double check.

And the misinformation Levin displays to back up his conclusions? You've heard most of that before too.

Levin put the Community Reinvestment Act at the top of the list of culprits for "the housing bust of 2008," asserting that the amount of "CRA-eligible loans" tops $4.5 trillion. In fact, the vast majority of subprime loans were made by financial institutions not subject to CRA guidelines, and according to the article Levin cites for that $4.5 trillion number, the figure covers all loans made under the CRA since its 1977 inception, not recent loans, as Levin suggests.

Levin also falsely attacks the Employee Free Choice Act, writing that if it passes, "Gone will be the secret ballot." In fact, the act would shift the choice of whether to hold a secret-ballot election to form a union from the employer to the workers.

In railing against "Enviro-Statism," Levin writes that "numerous experts are now claiming that, once again, the world is cooling," citing the work of Marc Morano, a former aide to global warming skeptic Sen. James Inhofe (R-OK). Meanwhile, actual experts say the Earth remains in a long-term warming trend and that human-caused global warming is very much a reality.

Levin misleadingly claims that Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards "have not reduced America's importation of oil," ignoring the fact that the number of cars and light trucks on the road has nearly doubled from 132 million in 1975, when CAFE standards were introduced, to 243 million in 2006. Moreover, the Government Accountability Office reported that "many experts have concluded that CAFE has helped save oil," noting, for instance, a National Academy of Sciences study estimating that "in 2002 CAFE contributed to saving 2.8 million barrels of fuel a day, or 14 percent of consumption in that year."

Levin exhibits more than a little cognitive dissonance in declaring that conservatives believe in the "rule of law" as the basis of "civil society," while also asserting that expecting the Bush administration to obtain court approval in order to wiretap people in the United States "is contrary to all legal precedent, historical practice and highly impractical."

On the subject of waterboarding, Levin claims that it "reportedly led to securing important information that prevented dozens of planned al-Qaeda attacks." He doesn't mention other reports supporting the argument that waterboarding resulted in little usable information from at least one detainee subjected to it.

Peddling such misinformation is old hat for conservatives like Levin. More disturbing is Levin's attack on immigration, which seems to betray a tinge of racial animosity.

Levin quotes an assertion by the late Madeleine Cosman that "many illegal aliens harbor fatal diseases that American medicine fought and vanquished long ago." While Levin provides no data to back this up, Cosman falsely asserted in the 2005 article Levin cites that reported cases of leprosy in the United States had "suddenly" increased from 900 to more than 7,000 "in the past three years."

Further, Levin complains that a 1965 immigration law permitted "a substantial increase in immigration from Latin America, Asia, and Africa -- to the detriment of previously favored aliens from Europe" and frets over "another problem with the mass Hispanic migration to the United States": a "fertility surge" among Hispanic teenagers and unmarried women.

Levin attempts a pre-emptive defense of these views, writing that "those who dissent" from the "Statist" view on immigration "are often characterized as exclusionists, nativists, xenophobes, or even racists." But at least some of those nouns might indeed apply to Levin.

Levin's book could be called old wine in new bottles, but since Levin resorts to the same old misinformation to sell his brand of conservatism, the bottles aren't all that new either.

Gayle in MD
07-20-2011, 10:32 PM
Freidman, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif a fascist!

G.

LWW
07-21-2011, 03:30 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did Obama's regime not increase the deficit many times over?

Not true, unless a 16.7% increase is 'many times over.' (CBO's projection as I've linked to said it would be $1.2 trillion, and it went up that year instead to $1.4 trillion or so).</div></div>

Are you denying that when senator Obama took office with the democrook congress that the "MESS THEY INHERITED" consisted of an annual deficit that was a small fraction of what it is today?

Are you denying that as recently as 2008 CBO (http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/93xx/doc9385/06-17-LTBO_Testimony.pdf) was projecting that we wouldn't reach the federal gubmint consuming 25% of GDP until 2082? </div></div>

Yes, and the Titanic was making excellent time, about to set the trans-Atlantic crossing record, for 99.99% of its journey.

Something. Happened.



</div></div>

Quite true ... twas the iceberg and bad welds what killed the TITANIC, twas a leftist congress with 4 consecutive leftist regimes practicing stupidonomics what killed the economy.

LWW
07-21-2011, 03:33 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You haven't paid attention, as I have often opposed the specifics of most O plans. </div></div>

You keep saying that ... yet the only actual objection that I can recall is that you didn't think he wasn't enough of a moonbat crazy leftist. </div></div>

I have termed his, and the Democratic Party's, current policy direction, soft fascism, a velvet gloved-chain mail fist.

Which is hardly an endorsement. </div></div>

That's funny ... because every time I've pointed out that dear leader is instituting a fascist economy the cabal goes into fits of apoplexy that anyone would dare suggest such a thing.

Perhaps all my efforts are paying off.

Qtec
07-21-2011, 03:35 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">every time I've pointed out that dear leader is instituting a fascist economy </div></div>

Give one example.

Q

LWW
07-21-2011, 03:35 AM
I remember when I offered to send my copy of Levin's book to any leftist who would agree to send me a book of their choosing that they felt best reflected leftist ideology and then we could discuss them online.

As I sadly suspected ... the cabal ran under their collective couches and wet their own selves at the thought of reading something which the party had not approved for them.

LWW
07-21-2011, 03:36 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Freidman, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif a fascist!

G. </div></div>

Very much so ... but I have an advantage in that I know what the word means.

LWW
07-21-2011, 04:02 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">every time I've pointed out that dear leader is instituting a fascist economy </div></div>

Give one example.

Q </div></div>

LET'S START (http://billiardsdigest.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=3&Number=352784&Searchpage=1&Main=33468&Words=fascist+LWW&topic=0&Search=true#Post352784) with a thread on the topic that the cabal ran in terror from.

And then proceed:

OH DEAR! (http://billiardsdigest.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=3&Number=354606&Searchpage=1&Main=33579&Words=fascist+LWW&topic=0&Search=true#Post354606)

OH MY! (http://billiardsdigest.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=3&Number=355176&Searchpage=1&Main=33624&Words=fascist+LWW&topic=0&Search=true#Post355176)

JIMINY CRICKET! (http://billiardsdigest.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=3&Number=356783&Searchpage=1&Main=33785&Words=fascist+LWW&topic=0&Search=true#Post356783)

GOOD GOSH! (http://billiardsdigest.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=3&Number=355979&Searchpage=1&Main=33711&Words=fascist+LWW&topic=0&Search=true#Post355979)

BE CAREFUL OF Q's HEAD EXPLODING!! (http://billiardsdigest.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=3&Number=357173&Searchpage=1&Main=33821&Words=fascist+LWW&topic=0&Search=true#Post357173)

IT'S LIKE A NIGHTMARE Q, IT KEEPS GETTING WORSER AND WORSER! (http://billiardsdigest.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=3&Number=357091&Searchpage=1&Main=33806&Words=fascist+LWW&topic=0&Search=true#Post357091)