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09-17-2002, 09:32 PM
Just out of curiosity, does anyone have any strong opinions on wood to wood joints over steel joints? Or vice versa?

09-17-2002, 10:57 PM
steel joints = KLANK!

wood to wood = shhhugh!

i prefer wood to wood i get better cueball control.

TonyM
09-17-2002, 11:36 PM
There are some reasonable technical arguments for minimizing the amount of metal in the joint area of a cue. But when faced with the evidence of a nice Szamboti or other finely crafted metal jointed cue, those arguments don't seem to hold as much weight as some would have you believe.

I think that the joint is important, but not as important for the "playability" of the cue as many players and even cuemakers believe.

I think it is hard to make a case for one or the other, when many fine players seem to perform well with either.

Tony
-thinks that there are other things that are more important....

Chris Cass
09-18-2002, 12:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr> steel joints = KLANK!

wood to wood = shhhugh!

i prefer wood to wood i get better cueball control. <hr></blockquote>

Hi Anon,

I don't know if I would actually agree with you pertaining to the better cb control part. This has really nothing to do with control. I think maybe you mean, the feeling of control you've experienced.

I shoot with a South West cue. I think it's wood to phenolic or implex, whatever. I have played all my life with either wood to wood or the implex type joint. I've tried the steel jointed cues but I can't feel the hit as much. Thinking, the steel absorbs the hit vs the vibrations passing through the cue freely.

I'm so much more in tune with the implex feeling. The feeling I feel from the hit that travels through the cue. I know when everything is right by this feeling and the sounds I hear when I'm hitting the balls right. Not only from vibrations running through my hand but the sounds of the cb being hit, and the ball being pocketed. Maybe, I'm weird but when I hear these certain sounds, feel the vibrations in my grip hand I know, I'm in dead punch.

When I walk in cold. I'll search for these sounds and once I hear it, I'll latch on to the feeling in my grip hand. Then there's nothing that can stop me. JMHO

Regards,

C.C.~~could be the 60's too. LOL

Cueless Joey
09-18-2002, 01:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr> steel joints = KLANK!

wood to wood = shhhugh!

i prefer wood to wood i get better cueball control. <hr></blockquote>
I agree. How can wood reasonate honestly if you place a heavy stainless steel between them?
My favorite joint is a SW pin or radial pin with buckhorn collar.

AustinFilAm
09-18-2002, 08:45 AM
Hi Chris,
Good post! I used to shoot with a steel joint mali cue and thought I liked it. Now I shoot with a wood to wood Black Heart. Whenever I go back to the mali, it is never the same and I couldn't figure it out. Your description of vibration and sound was the answer I've been looking for. It just feels good to hear and feel your shots. It puts you in the zone. Hard to believe, but pool is more enjoyable now more than ever.

Best regards... Angelo

BLACKHEART
09-18-2002, 08:56 AM
Actually Chris, if any part of the wood in the shaft is touching the wood of the buut, it's considered a wood to wood joint...JER

Chris Cass
09-18-2002, 10:29 AM
Hi JER,

I know, put in the key, turn the key, put the stick in "D", and press on a pedal. If it goes forward? It was the gas. LOL

Thanks JER,

C.C.

Chris Cass
09-18-2002, 11:15 AM
Thanks Angelo,

Glad to hear I'm not going insane. LOL I don't know what my answer would have been if I started out with a steel jointed cue. I know I've change Socrates mind already. LOL He know likes the wood to wood feel.

Really, it's a matter of preference. I also have noticed through the yrs that it's also a matter of geological location. Schon steel jointed cues seem to do well in sales out hear in corn country. When I was in Georgia, they seemed to like Meucci'.

The whole key to this sound and feeling thing is mainly to anchor it. An anchor, meaning something for your mind to latch on to when your playing your best pool. To keep it in thought and recall it when needed.

Our minds are so powerful we can recall certain memories and times to control our nervous system into relaxation. Relaxation is when we shoot are best. We are free to stroke and get into our individual rhythm.

I'm not a psychologist but these anchors, work. One day I had started to hiccup. My friend who is an avid reader said to me. When was the last time you saw a White Rabbit? It stunned me. I couldn't remember the last time I saw one. In his next breathe he asked, "Are you still huccuping?" I said know. Some weird stuff huh?

Then one day my 10 yr old son started to hiccup. So, I wanted to test this theroy out and impress the wife. So, I said, "Son, when was the last time you saw a White Rabbit?" He said, "Last night, dad." I said, "Where did you see a White Rabbit?" In disbelief of course. He replied, "I watched the Matrix last night." LOL He kept hiccuping and my wife couldn't stop laughing. hahaha


Regards,

C.C.

Voodoo Daddy
09-18-2002, 07:27 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Cueless Joey:</font><hr>
steel joints = KLANK!

Unless its a solid S/S with Ivory ferruled cue, which makes the perfect "ping"...{got goosebumps just thinking about it}

wood to wood = shhhugh!

More like "clunk" unless the shaft was threaded tight, then its more like a "thud".

Cueless Joey
09-18-2002, 07:57 PM
Hey Voodoo, I own A003. I didn't give you permission to display it. :-)

Voodoo Daddy
09-18-2002, 08:52 PM
You got a good one Joe...well all of Petes cues are jam-up!!

socrates
09-18-2002, 09:26 PM
Chris did open my mind to wood to wood. When I started playing again in 1990 I used a stanless piloted joint for about 10 years. For the past two years I have been using a wood to wood with a long 3/8 10 pin. Two reasons really:

I believe I have a better feel with the wood to wood joint and have a better sensation of the tip through the cue ball. I am of the opinion that my touch has improved since switching to wood to wood.

Reason #2 - Balance point of the cue. I think the weight of a stainless joint tends to make the cue a bit top heavy compared to a lighter wood to wood implex joint. The lighter joint seems to move the balance point of the cue closer to the wrap and as a matter of personal preference this is what I prefer.

Vagabond
09-18-2002, 09:27 PM
Howdy,
Most three cushion players use wood to wood.Not many makers use wood to wood for plying pool.A cue made under the name of MARIPOSA uses wood to wood.I like it.Cheers
Vagabond

TonyM
09-18-2002, 10:31 PM
"The whole key to this sound and feeling thing is mainly to anchor it."

And it seems that players that prefer a stainless steel joint like the sound and have no problem with "feel".

I think the feedback due to feel in your grip hand is highly overrated.

3 cushion players play with a rubber wrap!

Tony
-uses sound, and sight more than feel...

Chris Cass
09-18-2002, 11:42 PM
Can't disagree with you Tony. I think it's all a matter of personal preference. I think the shooter makes the cue. There's alot of reasons why people prefer one cue maker over another as well. If you ask a beginner they'll tell ya they can't feel the difference between a soft tip and a hard one. To each his own.

3 cushion players using rubber wraps? I guess with the balls weighing more, they must feel something? I don't know. I have played it with the Vietnamese before in a ph my buddy owned. Got in a tourney at Chris' in Chicago once. I prefer Caroms or TicTic myself. It's an ok game but personally I prefer to play with a house cue. If you play some 3 cushion with your personal cue for the entire day. Then, go to a 9ft and play some 9ball, you'll feel the difference, believe me.

Regards,

C.C.

09-19-2002, 12:23 AM
Howdy,
I love using wood to wood and wood to implex joints. I shoot with a softer stroke and like the feel of the hit in this manner. (I use Huebler and Viking cues with either wood to wood, or wood to implex using a 3/8-10 pin) In my younger days when I hit the balls harder and was playing more 9 ball, I used metal to implex or even metal to metal (double threaded) These cues produced a very hard hit, and over time, I did'nt like it. Overall, I don't think any joint style has an advantage over another in terms of playability, it's just a personal preference. However, there are cue manufacturers like Mike Seigel and Bob Meucci who prefer to stay away from metal joints. They claims that the metal joint contributes to deflection. Hmmmmmm..

Thanks,
Tony

SPetty
09-19-2002, 09:44 AM
Hi Socrates,

Since I started playing again, I've been playing with a wood-to-wood jointed cue, believing that it was better because it was more akin to a one piece cue.

I have recently acquired a metal jointed cue, and seem to have experienced an improvement in my game, I think due to the cue. (Yes, maybe it's because it's new and it's that temporary new cue improvement, but I just don't think so...) The balance point is more forward, as you suggest, and that seem to help me more. And, I believe I've noticed the sound of the tip hitting the ball "better" than with the wood-to-wood joint. I think the wood-to-wood joint somewhat mutes the sound. At least with the cue I was using. There is a difference with the tips, though; the new cue has a LePro tip while the old cue has a Talisman...

I guess I either don't recognize or don't need the feedback to my grip hand as much.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: socrates:</font><hr> Chris did open my mind to wood to wood. When I started playing again in 1990 I used a stanless piloted joint for about 10 years. For the past two years I have been using a wood to wood with a long 3/8 10 pin. Two reasons really:

I believe I have a better feel with the wood to wood joint and have a better sensation of the tip through the cue ball. I am of the opinion that my touch has improved since switching to wood to wood.

Reason #2 - Balance point of the cue. I think the weight of a stainless joint tends to make the cue a bit top heavy compared to a lighter wood to wood implex joint. The lighter joint seems to move the balance point of the cue closer to the wrap and as a matter of personal preference this is what I prefer. <hr></blockquote>

09-21-2002, 03:05 AM
Blackheart,

I didn't know this. I own two Kikel cues, both piloted. One has a phenolic joint, the other an ivory joint, or so I've come to believe because that's what Dave called them. Trouble is, there is an inner "ring" of wood in the butt that contacts an inner "ring" of wood in the shaft. In other words, both cues have thick, open cylinders or sleeves, not solid pieces, of the respective materials pressed over the wood. From your definition, these are wood to wood joints, correct? If so, I've certainly been under a wrong impression.

Bob

nAz
09-22-2002, 12:19 AM
When i play 3-C and i dont have my cue for it i use my break cue, dont want to damage my main cue, it seems to play well but the damn ferrul is to long!

Rod
09-22-2002, 01:30 AM
I've played with steel joints forever. No strong opinion either way but I don't feel the signal as much with a steel joint. Wood to wood sends a little more harsh signal and it doesn't agree with my feel. Personal preference area IMO.