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Qtec
08-07-2011, 02:27 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HOUSTON — Standing on a stage surrounded by thousands of fellow Christians on Saturday morning, Gov. Rick Perry of Texas called on Jesus to bless and guide the nation’s military and political leaders and “those who cannot see the light in the midst of all the darkness.”

“Lord, you are the source of every good thing,” Mr. Perry said, as he bowed his head, closed his eyes and leaned into a microphone at Reliant Stadium here. <span style='font-size: 14pt'>“You are our only hope,</span> and we stand before you today in awe of your power and in gratitude for your blessings, and humility for our sins. Father, our heart breaks for America. We see discord at home. We see fear in the marketplace. We see anger in the halls of government, and as a nation we have forgotten who made us, who protects us, who blesses us, and for that we cry out for your forgiveness.” </div></div>

No point in voting for Perry then. His only solution is divine intervention!

link (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/us/politics/07prayer.html?ref=us)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mr. Perry had invited his fellow governors to join him, but only Gov. Sam Brownback of Kansas, a Republican, attended. Gov. Rick Scott of Florida made a video statement that was played in the stadium. </div></div>


Q


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As the Washington Post reported on Thursday, professors have been ranked according to how profitable they were to the university. Previous reports suggested Perry wanted to treat students as "customers" and tie teacher bonuses to anonymous student evaluations.

One reason that might explain his hostility toward the system: He didn't do very well in it. A source in Texas passed The Huffington Post Perry's transcripts from his years at Texas A&M University. The future politician did not distinguish himself much in the classroom. While he later became a student leader, he had to get out of academic probation to do so. <u>He rarely earned anything above a C in his courses -- earning a C in U.S. History, a D in Shakespeare, <span style='font-size: 17pt'>and a D in the principles of economics.</span> Perry got a C in gym.
</u>
Perry also did poorly on classes within his animal science major. In fall semester 1970, he received a D in veterinary anatomy, a F in a second course on organic chemistry and a C in animal breeding. He did get an A in world military systems and “Improv. of Learning” -- his only two As while at A&M.

"A&M wasn't exactly Harvard on the Brazos River," recalled a Perry classmate in an interview with The Huffington Post. "This was not the brightest guy around. We always kind of laughed. He was always kind of a joke." </div></div>

eg8r
08-07-2011, 03:44 PM
I like Perry more and more every day.

eg8r

Soflasnapper
08-07-2011, 08:14 PM
He ought to have prayed for Texas and its residents.

ugotda7
08-07-2011, 09:21 PM
He should have prayed for an intelligent thread from Qtip.

Qtec
08-08-2011, 12:00 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ThinkProgress has compiled the top outlandish beliefs from pastors associated with Perry’s prayer rally:

–<span style='font-size: 14pt'> Oprah is a sign of the Apocalypse:</span> In his channel on GOD TV, Mike Bickle called Oprah a “forerunner to the harlot movement.” Bickle also warned that traditional “marriage will be…defiled” as the “gay marriage agenda, which is rooted in the depths of Hell,” progresses.

– <span style='font-size: 14pt'>Blackbirds are dying because of gay soldiers:</span> Dr. Cindy Jacobs recorded a video declaring a connection between the repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell and the sudden death of blackbirds in Beebee, Arkansas as a divine punishment. She also called “girl-on-girl kissing” a “plague on society” and asked divine forgiveness for the violation of a woman’s “natural use.”

– <span style='font-size: 14pt'>The Statue of Liberty is a “demonic idol”:</span> In various sermons, John Benefiel called the Statue of Liberty a “demonic idol.” He also expressed a belief that homosexuality is a plot contrived by the Illuminati “to limit the world population.”

– <span style='font-size: 14pt'>Hurricane Katrina was divine retribution for the city’s “sin”:</span> John Hagee said residents of New Orleans were at fault for Hurricane Katrina: “I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God and they were recipients of the judgment of God for that.” Hagee has also insinuated that “the Holocaust…was the fault of Jews themselves” and Hitler acted as a “hunter” corralling the Jews into Israel.

–<span style='font-size: 14pt'> Gay rights movement from the “pit of hell”</span>: Dwight McKissic denounced comparisons between the civil rights movement and the gay rights movement because the latter is a “satanic anointment…inspired by the anti-Christ” that comes from the “pit of hell.” McKissic also said that “God uses natural disasters to punish evil,” pointing to Hurricane Katrina because “New Orleans flaunts sin.”

– <span style='font-size: 14pt'>Jesus actually opposed the minimum wage: Influential pastor David Barton has made a name for himself by distorting Biblical text to support his claim that Jesus opposed the minimum wage and the capital gains tax. Barton has also argued that public school students are getting “homosexual indoctrination.”</span> </div></div>

etc. link (http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/08/03/280108/profile-the-outlandish-beliefs-of-rick-perrys-prayer-rally-endorsers/)


Q

eg8r
08-08-2011, 05:25 AM
While I guess he was a bit more macro-thinking and qtip chose not to mention it but he decided to pray for this country, our President and his family.

eg8r

eg8r
08-08-2011, 05:27 AM
LOL, it is exciting to see fear him so much. That would lead us to believe he is exactly what this country needs.

eg8r

LWW
08-08-2011, 05:43 AM
Ditto.

Leftists always attempt to destroy what they fear.

Soflasnapper
08-08-2011, 11:08 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ThinkProgress has compiled the top outlandish beliefs from pastors associated with Perry’s prayer rally:

–<span style='font-size: 14pt'> Oprah is a sign of the Apocalypse:</span> In his channel on GOD TV, Mike Bickle called Oprah a “forerunner to the harlot movement.” Bickle also warned that traditional “marriage will be…defiled” as the “gay marriage agenda, which is rooted in the depths of Hell,” progresses.

– <span style='font-size: 14pt'>Blackbirds are dying because of gay soldiers:</span> Dr. Cindy Jacobs recorded a video declaring a connection between the repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell and the sudden death of blackbirds in Beebee, Arkansas as a divine punishment. She also called “girl-on-girl kissing” a “plague on society” and asked divine forgiveness for the violation of a woman’s “natural use.”

– <span style='font-size: 14pt'>The Statue of Liberty is a “demonic idol”:</span> In various sermons, John Benefiel called the Statue of Liberty a “demonic idol.” He also expressed a belief that homosexuality is a plot contrived by the Illuminati “to limit the world population.”

– <span style='font-size: 14pt'>Hurricane Katrina was divine retribution for the city’s “sin”:</span> John Hagee said residents of New Orleans were at fault for Hurricane Katrina: “I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God and they were recipients of the judgment of God for that.” Hagee has also insinuated that “the Holocaust…was the fault of Jews themselves” and Hitler acted as a “hunter” corralling the Jews into Israel.

–<span style='font-size: 14pt'> Gay rights movement from the “pit of hell”</span>: Dwight McKissic denounced comparisons between the civil rights movement and the gay rights movement because the latter is a “satanic anointment…inspired by the anti-Christ” that comes from the “pit of hell.” McKissic also said that “God uses natural disasters to punish evil,” pointing to Hurricane Katrina because “New Orleans flaunts sin.”

– <span style='font-size: 14pt'>Jesus actually opposed the minimum wage: Influential pastor David Barton has made a name for himself by distorting Biblical text to support his claim that Jesus opposed the minimum wage and the capital gains tax. Barton has also argued that public school students are getting “homosexual indoctrination.”</span> </div></div>

etc. link (http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/08/03/280108/profile-the-outlandish-beliefs-of-rick-perrys-prayer-rally-endorsers/)


Q </div></div>

I think it a reasonable argument to suggest the many statues of goddesses, and even the obelisk forming the Washington Monument, are remnant proofs of how the very old pagan mystery religions are still adhered to today, sub rosa, among secretive parts of the ruling elite.

Even the Dome of the Capitol features a) a goddess statue on its top, and b) the mural painting of The Apotheosis of Washington inside the cupola, where that man is all but deified, certainly beatified, ascending bodily to heaven like Jesus to be received by angels.

But that's just me.

Soflasnapper
08-08-2011, 11:20 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL, it is exciting to see fear him so much. That would lead us to believe he is exactly what this country needs.

eg8r </div></div>

Congratulations. Any crazy mo-fo opposed by the left for that reason would be thought 'just exactly what this country needs,' on that opposition alone.

What if it's more that they are a crazy mo-fo?

Or at least, an ignorant C- minus student of no known intellectual prowess who struts around presiding over the largest minimum wage workforce in the country and says he's done a good job, which he'll repeat at the national level. Hmmm. Under-informed, aggressively religious, strutting and preening governor of Texas??? What could go wrong with that?!?!

Actually, the people of this country get it, that last paragraph, and his chances are nil, because the party bosses on that side know it as well. They'd prefer to have a candidate with a shot at winning in 2012. It is only their lack of such a candidate in this field that has a few daydreaming about this horrible candidate instead.

eg8r
08-08-2011, 06:35 PM
LOL, the more you guys worry the more I think he is exactly what we need. Your failed policies have driven us deep enough into debt even deeper than we would have thought and certainly will result in even deeper than the "estimators", used by the current WH, tell us. I like that Perry has tried to distance himself from W and is not a Bush-look-alike.

eg8r

cushioncrawler
08-08-2011, 09:11 PM
Founding Fathers Pagan grave sites

For those who wish to grasp the Pagan nature of our founding fathers, just examine their grave markers. A grave and its markings reflects the legacy and personal views of those who have died. You will find that our American fathers paid little heed to religion during their life or at their death. To the chagrin of the religious-right who attempt to distort history, most of our founding father's graves omit any mention of Judeo-Christian religions, a rather odd feature if, indeed, they thought of themselves as Christian. The following describes just six of our most influential American founders grave sites.

Benjamin Franklin's Tomb

Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790) Statesman, inventor, and the greatest American scientist of the period.

Although his tomb sits on the property of the Christ Church burial ground in Philadelphia, his modest tomb had no references to Christianity. This shouldn't surprise anyone considering that the deist Franklin criticized Christianity.

Note the pennies thrown on the grave for good luck (a Pagan practice that persists to this day).



Thomas Paine's Pagan monument

Thomas Paine (1737-1809). Political Philosopher and Advocate of freethought and free expression. Perhaps the single most important person to influence Americans toward independence. He authored Common Sense, The American Crisis, Rights of Man, The Age of Reason, Agrarian Justice, Dissertation on First Principles of Government, and much more.

Because of his attacks against Christianity, Christians accused him of atheism and denied him burial on "consecrated" grounds. They buried Paine at New Rochelle on 10 June 1809. In 1819, William Cobbett dishumed Paine's bones and took them to Liverpool where they remained until Cobbett's death in 1836 as part of the property of his son, who became bankrupt. The bones were last heard of in possession of a Mr. Tilly in 1844. A monument erected at New Rochelle in 1839 [photo at left] cites Paine's own words.

" ~ my country is the world, and my religion is to do good ~ "
Rights of Man, part 2, 1792

As a Deist and freethinker, clearly Paine's life and death reflects a legacy of freethought Paganism.



George Washington's vault

George Washington (1732-1799), American General of the Revolutionary war and 1st President of the United States.

George Washington gave his own instructions to build a modest brick grave site on his own land, Mount Vernon. The grave marker reads: "Within this Enclosure Rest the remains of Gen. George Washington." Nothing about the grave resembles a Christian burial site; no crosses, no appeals to God or heaven. Inside the brick building sits a modest vault (Egyptian style).

Note the two Pagan Egyptian obelisks. The obelisk on the left went to the memory of Bushrod Washington, Associate Supreme Court Justice appointed by John Adams, nephew of George Washington. The obelisk on the right went to the memory of John Augustine Washington, nephew of Bushrod Washington.



Thomas Jefferson's Pagan tombstone

Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), our greatest American founder, author of the Declaration of Independence and 3rd President of the United States.

Thomas Jefferson designed his own tombstone and inscription. Nowhere does it include a Christian cross or any reference to a Judeo-Christian religion. Instead he designed his tombstone after a Pagan Egyptian obelisk!

Jefferson gave strict instructions as to the wording to go on it. In his, "A Memorandum (Rules of Etiquette)", written in November 1803, Jefferson wrote:

on the faces of the Obelisk the following inscription, & not a word more:

'Here was buried Thomas Jefferson
Author of the Declaration of American Independence
of the Statute of Virginia for religious freedom
& Father of the University of Virginia.'


John Adams Pagan vault

John Adams (1735-1826), 2rd President of the United States

John Adams died on the very same day of Thomas Jefferson's death. Adams burial vault located in Quincy, Massachusetts, looks like those used in ancient Egypt. Not a single crucifixion or appeals to a Christian god anywhere.



James Madison's Pagan tombstone

James Madison (1751-1836) chief architect of the United States Constitution, 4th President of the United States.

Madison's burial site sits on his own grounds of Monpelier (where the architectural style reflects Pagan Greek and Roman tastes). Again, no references to Christianity. Moreover, his tombstone resembles a Pagan Egyptian obelisk.



If interstellar aliens researching the behavior of earthlings ever visit the gravestones of our founders they would most likely think of them as Egyptian!

cushioncrawler
08-08-2011, 09:11 PM
Democracy and Republicanism: Pagan concepts to the very core

The formation of the United States began a grand experiment in government. The ratification of the U.S. Constitution marked the first time any nation had dared to put a formal distance between church and state. Our founding fathers carefully studied the ancient governing states and kingdoms from the Greeks and Romans, the Saxons, and the theocracies of the medieval era. They had seen the dangers of church-state unions of both Europe and colonial America. They knew, first-hand, about state-sponsored religious persecution. Our American founders wisely took the best features from various governments and left out the worst features, those that would impinge on personal freedoms. Fortunately they left out the Judeo-Christian theocracies.

Through careful thought, our founding fathers produced a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy as some people falsely believe. In fact, nowhere in the Declaration of Independence or the U.S. Constitution does it mention democracy. Article IV, Section 4 of the Constitution guarantees "to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government."

So when the Christian president like George W. Bush describes America as a democracy, he hasn't a clue as to what kind of government he wishes to rule.

Although a Republic evolved out of past democratic governments, and our local governments retain some elements of democracy, the U.S. system relies on representatives to establish laws rather than through the voting public or imperial minded presidents. During the Constitutional Convention of 1787 no one supported a direct form of democracy. On the contrary, our founders feared pure democracy because it provides no checks and balances on the people themselves.

Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and conflict; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.

-- James Madison


The ancient Greeks invented democracy. The word comes from the Greek demos meaning "the people," and kratein meaning "to rule." The two words combined literally means "rule by the people." Later, the Romans took some of their governmental ideas from the Greeks and evolved a representative democracy which had representatives from the nobility in the Senate and representatives from the commoners in the Assembly. The Roman government divided between these two branches and they voted on various issues. Even Common Law derives from the Pagan Romans and Saxons.

Our founding fathers based the United States government on the Greek, Roman, and Anglo-Saxon ideas along with freethought ideas from the Enlightenment. Jefferson saw the Anglo-Saxons as originators of the institutions of representative government and trial by jury. The terms, "Life and liberty," "The pursuit of happiness," Self-evident truths," according to Mapp, "were not just glittering ornaments to brighten somber discourse. They were terms specifically defined in the writings of the Scottish Enlightenment to which Jefferson had been introduced by William Small and which he continued to study with great avidity." [Mapp] Of course the Enlightenment went against the grain of Christian, Jewish, and Islamic thought, and by this standard, meets the requirements of Pagan thought.

Of course the ancient Greeks, Romans and Anglo-Saxons practiced Paganism and thus our form of government derives entirely from Pagan ideas.

cushioncrawler
08-08-2011, 09:11 PM
The Constitution of the United States, a Pagan document

The only mention of religion in the Constitution comes from exclusionary wording:

Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion

no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

Frustrating to both Pagans and Christians, nowhere in the Constitution does it mention a god. Or does it?

Fear not my fellow Pagans. Indeed it does! Within Amendment XX, you will find the word "January" which comes from the Latin Janus which refers to our God Janus, the Roman god of doors and gateways. Sunday (mentioned in Article 1, Sec.7) comes from the word Sunne which refers to the Saxon Sun god. March (see Amendment XII), comes from the Latin, Martius, and refers to our Pagan God Mars.




Some Christians have tried to claim the ratification date at the end of the document as referring to Jesus [2] but this fails for the reason that no Christian worships dates while nothing prevents Pagans around the world from worshiping the God Janus in January, Mars in March and the Saxon Sun god on Sunday.

Of course Pagan Enlightenment thinking also influenced the Constitution, as well as many early American Deists. Deism served such a powerful force in the formation of a naturalistic and scientific viewpoint in the minds of our founding fathers that it shouldn't surprise anyone that in 1787-1788, opponents frequently argued that the Constitution represented a deistic conspiracy to overthrow the Christian commonwealth. [Kramnick]

The Constitution also uses words like "Senate," "Justice," "Liberty" which describe Greek and Roman concepts, all of them Pagan to the very core, not to mention that our very concept of democracy came from the Pagan Greeks (see below).

cushioncrawler
08-08-2011, 09:12 PM
The Declaration of Independence, a Pagan document

Although strictly not a lawful document, the Declaration of Independence, a pre-government document, revealed the first attempt by the American colonists to establish their own independence from Great Britain. The Declaration also mentions god where the religious-right of modern times have tried to use as evidence for their Christian god. But does the god of the Declaration speak about a Biblical god? No, not at all. Clearly the god mentioned describes a Pagan concept. Lets look at the Declaration's words directly:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume, among the Powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

Thomas Jefferson thought of himself as a scientist more than he did a politician. Consider that the "Laws of Nature" describe a materialist viewpoint, many times referred to as Newton's laws in the years following Newton's discovery of the laws of gravity, light, and calculus mathematics. (Thomas Jefferson greatly admired Isaac Newton and anyone who visits Monticello will see the influence he had on Jefferson.) Clearly Jefferson intended "Nature's God," not to refer to the personal god of superstitious Christianity, but of a physical god of nature, the laws of physics-- Nature's God. In 1809 Jefferson wrote, "Nature intended me for the tranquil pursuits of science, by rendering them my supreme delight." Clearly Jefferson thought of Nature as God.

But even if you do not feel persuaded that Nature's God means the Laws of Nature and you insist that it refers to a supernatural god, then you still cannot use it to support a Judeo-Christian god. Why? Because to call the God of the Bible as Nature's God would not only contradict the Bible but would constitute heresy in the minds of 18th century Christian leaders of both the Protestant and Catholic faith. Nature's God describes a Pagan concept because nature describes the world. The Biblical concept of nature describes the earth (the world), the planets, plant, man and animal as nature, but certainly not as a part of God. According to Christianity God and Jesus come from above. The God of Christianity does not come from this world:

The alleged Jesus said, "You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world." [John 8:23] and "My kingship is not of this world..." [John 18:36]

But to the Pagans, many gods of nature exist. The Egyptian, Hindu, Greek and Roman religions describe a plethora of gods of nature. Below gives just a few examples of Pagan nature gods from various religions:


A Few Examples of Pagan Nature Gods




The Egyptians worshiped Anuket- Goddess of the Nile, Baal- God of the Desert, Yamm- God of the sea, etc. The Hindus worshiped Vedic Gods: Surya- God of the Sun, Agni- God of fire, Varuna- God of Rain, etc. The Greeks had Apollo- God of the Sun, Aphrodite- Goddess of love, Poseidon- God of the Sea, etc. The Romans honored Ceres- Goddess of Corn, Libertas- Goddess of Liberty, Neptune- God of the Sea, etc. The Pagan nature gods number in the thousands.

Clearly then, to worship a god of nature regardless of whether you think it means the laws of nature of a supernatural god of nature means practicing Paganism by the very meaning of the word.

To continue with words in the Declaration:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.

The Declaration echoes John Locke's idea [1] that in the "state of nature," all human beings lived free and equal (Locke would remain a hero of Jefferson throughout his life). [Mapp] The idea that "all men are created equal" goes against Biblical doctrine. The Bible supports inequality from a top down hierarchy: God-man-woman-beast (Catholic dogma adds the church and their priests between God and man). Moreover the word "Creator" describes a Deistic term in the 1700s.

Jefferson, in his many papers and correspondences throughout his life expressed a Deistic view of religion. Deists did not believe in miracles, revealed religion, the authority of the clergy, or the divinity of Jesus. Jefferson regarded ethics, not faith, as the essence of religion. Of course Deists believed in a creator, but thought that the original Creator no longer lived or did not play any part in the world or influenced the lives of people. That goes to the very reason why the American founding fathers knew that they (We the people) had to form the laws of the land, laws based on human reasoning.

Note also that the Declaration says, "their Creator," not "our Creator." This implies that everyone has a unique creator instead of a universal "our" creator (A Judeo-christian god). "Their Creator" could mean several things. It could mean a personal pagan god (as often seen in pagan societies who's members worship their own personal god). It could mean their parents, who provided them with their life, rights, and their ability to achieve happiness. It could also mean whatever natural or physical laws created them. "Their Creator" implies everything but a Judeo-christian god.

Nowhere else in the Declaration (or any other founding document) do we find mention of gods or creators. The entire bases of connecting god with the U.S. government rests entirely on only three words, "Nature's God" and "Creator." Nothing more. And even these three words come from a deist describing a Pagan concept!

cushioncrawler
08-08-2011, 09:12 PM
Pre-independence America

Although the first colonists in America came from Europe (mostly Great Britain, Spain, and Holland), many of them to escape religious persecution (Christian persecution no less!), to establish a place of free Christian worship, these early European-Americans eventually succumbed to the government of Great Britain. The religious-right propagandists like to put emphasis on this period of American history because, indeed, these first European-Americans did live under Christian rule and it makes it seem as if these first colonists established the government of the United States. They did not.

Of course the first Americans did not practice Christianity at all. Native Indians lived in America thousands of years before the Christians invaded their land. These original Americans got dispossessed, slaughtered, or segregated to the will of intolerant Christians. Today's religious-right Christians conveniently leave out any mention of the original Americans, Pagan to the very core. Only a very brief period before the formation of the United States could Christians call America their land. The following gives a brief historical summary:

The Spanish founded the first European colony in North America at St. Augustine, Florida, in 1565. In 1607, the London Company founded the Jamestown colony. In 1620 the Mayflower ship lands at Cape Cod, Massachusetts and its colonists formed the Mayflower Compact (a true Christian document) to establish a form of local government. But these early Christian colonies (the Puritans) became so religiously intolerant that a few of the colonists began to rebel. In 1636 Roger Williams founded Providence and Rhode Island because his fellow Christians banished him from Massachusetts. Why? Because of his "new and dangerous opinions" calling for religious and political freedoms, including separation of church and state. Providence then became a haven for many other colonists fleeing religious intolerance. Just a few years later in 1646, the Massachusetts general court approved a law that made religious heresy punishable by death! In 1692 hysteria grips Salem, Massachusetts as suspects accused of witchcraft got arrested and imprisoned. These religious Puritans accused one-hundred-fifty people of their own citizens and they executed twenty of them. In 1700, Massachusetts passes a law ordering all Roman Catholic priests to leave the colony within three months upon penalty of life imprisonment or execution (New York passes a similar law). In 1702 in Maryland, the Anglican Church gets established as the official church. In 1706 South Carolina also established the Anglican Church as its official church.

All of this occurred well before the establishment of the United States.

These early European Americans began to feel very suspicious of the growing encroachment of Christianity upon government and personal freedoms. By the mid 1750s, a few of the colonists began to introduce heretical ideas. Benjamin Franklin publishes Poor Richard's Almanac, and he begins to question Christian principles. More and more Americans become wary of religious and political impositions on their life. In January of 1776, Thomas Paine publishes "Common Sense" in Philadelphia which criticized King George III's allegiance to Monarchy, and argues for American independence. It becomes an instant best-seller. Paine, a Pagan deist would later write "Age of Reason" where he rejected Judeo-Christian tenets and scriptures.

Remember that at this time the colonies belonged to Great Britain.

Things had come to a head. The most influential American colonists rebelled against Great Britain and their taxes, institutional churches, and desired to form an independent government free from religion and Monarchies. On July 4, 1776, The Declaration of Independence (written by a Pagan deist) announced their independence to the world.

cushioncrawler
08-08-2011, 09:13 PM
The United States: A Country founded on Paganism
Satire by Pagan Jim
Originated: 20 March 2005
Additions: 18 Jan. 2010


Pagan n. 1. A person who is not a Christian, Moslem, or Jew; heathen. 2. One who has no religion.

--The American Heritage Dictionary



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Although the common meaning of Paganism seems to imply atheism, a Pagan can worship any other god not common to the god of the Torah, the Bible or the Koran. This also includes those who worshiped gods before the advent of the Judeo-Christian religions. As Mortimer Adler put it: "Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle, Marcus Aurelius, Epictetus, and Cicero were Western pagans. The Western peoples of pre-Christian antiquity were all pagans in the sense defined. Many remained pagans during the early centuries of the Christian era; and from the 16th century on, the number of pagans living in communities that were predominantly Christian or Muslim has steadily increased." [Adler]

So if we wish to find the origins of a government based on Paganism, we must establish two things: 1. The lawful documents, symbols and mottoes of the founding government do not contain any mention of Christian, Moslem, or Jewish religions. 2. The documents, symbols and mottoes of the founding government describe Pagan deities and concepts.

Since the government in question involves the founding documents and symbols of the United States of America, we must satisfy the above two criteria with evidence for Paganism and a lack of evidence for Christianity, Judaism, or Islam.

This becomes evermore interesting in light of the recent religious-right movement in their attempt to convince citizens that the American government derived from Christian principles. The inspiration for creating this article came from deceptive claims by right-wing Christians about Moses and the 10 commandments depicted on the Supreme Court building and other state courthouses (more about this below). This article shows their error by examining the very documents establishing the United States of America (the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution) and the symbols and mottoes used by the early Americans. In every case, Paganism prevails and Christianity does not. In fact, Paganism reveals itself so predominantly that it should give the reader pause to consider the power of Christian propaganda to deceive and disguise these obvious facts for so long.

When I was a boy
World was better spot.
What was so was so,
What was not was not.
Now I am a man;
World have changed a lot.
Some things nearly so,
Others nearly not.
There are times I almost think
I am not sure of what I absolutely know."
--The opening words to the song, "A Puzzlement" from Rodgers and Hammerstein's, "The King and I".

cushioncrawler
08-08-2011, 09:14 PM
United States government Pagan buildings

If, indeed, the United States rests upon a Christian foundation, then why oh why did our American leaders and architects not construct U.S. government buildings on the foundations of the Temple of Solomon, or Cathedral architecture from the Holy Dark Ages? Why didn't they construct buildings to worship Jehovah, Jesus, or Allah? Of course they didn't because of their obvious and blatant intent to reflect the United States as a Pagan nation. This gives the reason why the architects of the United States Capitol building, state capitol buildings, court buildings, libraries, and national banks throughout America modeled their buildings after Pagan Greek and Roman architecture.

The Greek Parthenon and the Roman Pantheon, perhaps the greatest buildings in history has served as the template for many U.S. buildings. The Supreme Court Building, the Second Bank of the United States, and the Lincoln Memorial, for example, took their design from the Parthenon, a religious Greek temple dedicated to the Goddess Athena. The Pantheon with its majestic dome has influenced the design of many government buildings including the Jefferson Memorial and the U.S. Capitol building. In fact the word "Capitol" comes from the name of an ancient temple of Jupiter on the Capitoline Hill in Rome.





The Parthenon, built and designed in Athens in 477-438 BCE by Greek Pagans for the purposes of worshiping Athena, the Goddess of Wisdom.

Many American government buildings used the Parthenon as inspiration for their design.
The Pantheon built and designed in Rome in 118-35 CE by Roman Pagans for the purposes of worshiping the Roman Gods.

The U.S. Capitol dome, for example resembles the Pantheon dome.



Examples of Pagan Influence on American Government buildings



And what do we find on the top of the U.S. Capitol Building? A cross? A menorah? A figure of the "Immaculate" Mary? No. We find the Pagan statue of Freedom!

Twelve stars surround the headdress of the Statue of Freedom which represents the Zodiac, an ancient Pagan astrological concept.

You have to look to Paganism for ideas about freedom because the Bible, the Torah, and the Koran do not even recognize freedom as a viable notion.




And what do we find standing in the entrance of the U.S. Capitol building? A statute tribute to our God Mars, the Roman God of War and agriculture!



Presidential Memorials modeled after Pagan architectures



So whenever you walk into a classically designed American government building, think of our Pagan Gods and our American Pagan founding fathers who thoughtfully made our country into a Pagan nation. (You may want to kneel down in reverence to our Pagan Gods at this point before reading on.)

cushioncrawler
08-08-2011, 09:15 PM
The Pagan Goddess of Justice



Our Justice system also derived from Pagan Greek and Roman concepts. Courthouses throughout America honor our Goddess of Justice with magnificent statues.

Justitia, a Roman goddess of justice symbolizes the fair and equal administration of the law, without corruption, avarice, prejudice, or favor; goddess of divine justice. Sculptors often portray her as evenly balancing both scales and a sword and wearing a blindfold (but often times without one). She sometimes holds the fasces (a bundle of rods around an ax) symbolizing judicial authority in one hand, and a flame in the other hand, symbolizing truth.

The ancient Greeks referred to her as Themis, originally the organizer of the "communal affairs of humans, particularly assemblies." Her ability to foresee the future enabled her to become one of the oracles at Delphi, which in turn led to her establishment as the goddess of divine justice. Classical representations of Themis did not show her blindfolded (because of her talent for prophecy, she had no need of a blindfold) nor did she hold a sword (because she represented common consent, not coercion).

The ancient Egyptians also had a goddess of Justice referred to as Ma'at and often depicted as carrying a sword with an ostrich feather in her hair (but no scales) to symbolize truth and justice. The term magistrate derived from Ma'at because she assisted Osiris in the judgment of the dead by weighing their hearts.

The Spirit of Justice statute (also referred to as Minnie Lou) stands in the Great Hall of the Justice department building.

She also represents the Goddess of Justice in Art Deco style. Unfortunately, John Ashcroft (a right-wing Christian pictured in front of the statue) felt offended by her naked metal breasts so he had the statue covered, thus insulting American Pagans countrywide.



So whenever you serve jury duty or happen to need the services of a U.S. court of law, give reverence to the Saxons and Romans, and pray to Justitia our Pagan Goddess of Justice.

cushioncrawler
08-08-2011, 09:16 PM
United States Pagan currency

None of the first currency minted in the United States contained any mention of God; no godly images, no religious mottoes, nothing.

First American Coin

The first coin minted in America did not use the motto "In God We Trust." Instead we find Benjamin Franklin's motto, "Mind Your Business." Even the Pagan references appear hidden. However the sundial, invented by the ancient Egyptians suggests its Pagan origins.



Not until the late 1700s do we finally find any image of a deity on currency and medals and what deity do we find? An image of Allah? The god of Moses? Jesus Christ? NO! Instead we find our Pagan Goddess of Liberty!


"1776" Libertas Americana medal

This 1775 early American medal showing a woman with flowing hair depicts the Goddess of Liberty (also called Lady Liberty) and refers to the Roman Goddess Libertas.

Benjamin Franklin conceived the idea of the Libertas Americana medal and suggested the motifs.

The opposite side shows Minerva (Goddess of wisdom) clad in breastplate and plumed helmet, holds a shield bearing the fleur de lys of France. The infant Hercules (representing the new American nation) kneels in the protective shadow of Minerva's shield, grasping a strangled serpent in each tiny fist. The reptiles represent the defeats of General "Gentleman Johnny" Burgoyne (17 October, 1777) and General George Cornwallis (19 October, 1781). The British lion stands, forepaws upon Minerva's shield. Its tail is between its rear legs, a heraldic signal of cowardice or defeat, as, indeed, it may also be in nature. (Information derived from here...)





The 1794 American half-cent, above, shows the Goddess Liberty on one side and a wreath on the other. The wreath depicts a Pagan kotynos, an olive branch worn by Olympian champions and Pagan Roman emperors. The Greek ambassadors of peace, in order to indicate their intentions, offered an olive branch to their interlocutors (an olive branch also appears on the American Great Seal). The idea of putting the image of Goddess Liberty on coins comes from the ancient Romans who depicted Gods and Goddesses on many of their coins throughout the Roman era.

Of course our Goddess of Liberty appears in many forms including the Statue of Liberty which stands proudly in the New York city harbor.



Although we call it the Mercury dime, the official designation refers to it as "Winged Liberty Head." It actually depicts Goddess Liberty wearing a Phrygian cap (typically worn by freed slaves during the Roman Empire), symbolizing freedom of thought. The "In God We Trust" motto (put on coins long after the establishment of our government), must then refer to our Pagan deity Liberty!

The United States Trade dollar depicts the Pagan emperor, Vespasian. Vespasian ruled (AD 69-79) during the destruction of the Temple at Jerusalem and had charge of the suppression of the Jewish Revolt, which of course put him at odds with the Jews and the Christians.

The Great Seal (a Pagan symbol)

On the dollar bill we find the Great Seal which depicts a left eye over an unfinished pyramid with 13 steps. No one knows exactly what it means and many theories exist. Freemasons claim it as a Masonic symbol, others say it represents an occult symbol, others yet say it describes a Satanic mark (the Evil Eye), etc. But one thing no one can deny: the pyramid. Pyramids, of course originate from the ancient Egyptians. The Egyptian's also had their Eye of Horus. And because Egyptian pyramids came from Pagans, no one can deny that this symbol represents a Pagan symbol.

The Latin term ANNUIT COEPTIS does not refer to the Christian God as some Right-Wingers want us to believe. Gaillard Hunt, the Department of State's first publisher on the seal in 1892, took official notice .... Hunt described Annuit Coeptis as an allusion to line 625 of Virgil's book IX of the Aeneid, "JUPPITER OMNIPOTES, AUDACIBUS ANNUE COEPTIS," (All-powerful Jupiter favor [my] daring undertakings). To translate the motto, the translator must supply the subject of the verb and the tense. In his 1892 brochure, Hunt suggested that the missing subject, in effect, represents the eye at the apex of the pyramid ... and he translated the motto-in the present tense-as "it (the Eye of Providence) is favorable to our undertakings." Regardless of how you translate it, the eye can only refer to the eye of the God Jupiter, the Supreme God of the Pagan Romans.

The illustration [left] depicts the opposite side of the Great Seal. The front side shows the familiar American Eagle holding an olive branch (a Pagan Greco-Roman symbol) in one claw and 13 arrows in the other claw.

cushioncrawler
08-08-2011, 09:19 PM
Medal of Honor, an award from the Pagan Goddess




General George Washington created the Badge of Military Merit on 7 August 1792 but it fell into disuse after the Revolutionary War. Not until the Civil War did the medal come back in the form of the Purple Heart and a medal of valor called the Medal of Honor. On 17 February 1862, the Senate authorized the medal for the Army and followed the pattern of a similar award approved for Naval personnel in December 1861.

The Army Medal of Honor depicts the head of our Goddess Minerva, the Roman Goddess of wisdom, invention, the arts, and martial prowess. The Navy and Marine Corps' medal shows Minerva, personifying the United States, standing with a left hand resting on a fasces and Her right hand holding a shield blazoned with the United States arms. She repulses Discord, represented by snakes (the insignia also known as, "Minerva Repulsing Discord"). The Air Force medal insignia represents our Goddess Liberty, modeled after the Statue of Liberty.

Note also the star pointing downward (inverted pentagram), a symbol used by Pagan occultists. The inverted pentagram so infuriates Christians that they accuse Pagans of Satan worship, which of course has no validity whatsoever. Satan describes a Christian concept and Satanism represents an inverted form of Christianity, and has nothing to do with Paganism at all. [3]

So whenever you honor and salute our brave Medal of Honor recipients, give thanks to our Pagan Deities for giving them the courage to defend our nation.

cushioncrawler
08-08-2011, 09:21 PM
The Ten Commandments subterfuge
The Christian hullaballoo concerning the Ten Commandments and the U.S. comes mainly from the very few references to Moses and the tablets that appear on the Supreme Court building (and a few other state courthouses). Deceptively, Christians will trot out the image of Moses without the context from which the statue sits (it always amazes me how Christians love to accuse others of out-of-context ploys when they, themselves, always get the context wrong.). By using this subterfuge technique, political Christians want you to believe that, somehow, Moses and the tablets on the Supreme Court building represents proof that U.S. laws derived from the Ten Commandments. Nothing could stand further from the truth.

In the first place, Moses does not sit alone on the Supreme Court Frieze. Christians don't want you to know that Moses sits next to two Pagans-- Confucius and Solon:


Confucius, Moses, and Solon


This sculptural frieze appears on the back of the Supreme Court Building (the east side), not the main entrance, where you would expect him to appear if the sculptor intended him to hold a special place. Moses sits next to Confucius and Solon holding two blank tablets. These fellows represent three lawgivers from the East, thus they appear on the east side of the building. Characters from the fable of the Tortoise and the Hare also appear on this frieze (go figure).

Moreover, Christians don't tell you that figures of 17 other lawgivers appear on the Supreme Court building. Notorious pagans such as Hammurabi, Menes, Lycurgus, Draco, Augustus, and Justinian also appear among the lawgivers. Even Mohammed holding the Koran appears on the building! (Can you imagine the uproar that would occur if U.S. Muslims declared that Constitutional law derived from Allah and the Holy Koran?) Friezes appear on all four sides of the building and on the inside. The Moses statue appears no larger than any of the other lawgivers. According to the Curator's office, Weinman designed for the Courtroom friezes, a procession of "great lawgivers of history," from many civilizations, to portray the development of secular law. (bold characters, mine).

Also in the Great Hall of the Supreme Court building, one will find ornamental metopes which include some our beloved Pagan Gods and Goddesses (Minerva, Zeus, Mercury, and Juno). Not a single Judeo-Christian God appears anywhere. And the display of these Pagan gods, my dear Christians, blatantly violates at least one the Ten Commandments ("You shall have no other gods before me," or "You shall not make idols").

As for the main entrance to the Supreme Court, Moses does not appear there at all. Instead, we see on the main door, relief panels that depict Pagan reflections such as the Shield of Achilles, the Justinian Code, the Magna Carta, Etc. (Click here for graphic details).

And what do we find on the main entrance frieze to the Supreme Court building? This:


(Image source: Album: Washington DC)


No depictions of Moses or the Ten Commandments appear at all, at all, on the main entrance. The three central figures describe Pagans that represent Order, Liberty Enthroned, and Authority. The other figures represent American justices and the sculptor of the pediment, Robert Aitken. The Supreme Court literally reeks of magisterial Paganism. Here's a photo of the entire entrance:


Supreme Court Main Entrance (Click onthe image to see an enlarged view)
(Image source: Raich v. Ashcroft Gallery)


Now here comes the kicker: nowhere does the image of Jesus appear on the Supreme Court building nor anywhere else in our government symbols! Since Jesus represents the lawgiver for Christians (remember that, according to Christian beliefs, Jesus replaced the laws of the Old Testament, with the New Covenant). Moses represents a Jewish figure and the Ten Commandments represent Hebraic laws, not Christian laws.

And no matter how much a Christian wants to read the Ten Commandments into U.S. law, not one of the commandments appears in the U.S. Constitution either explicitly or implicitly. (See, "How the U.S. Constitution violates the Ten Commandments")

To make matters worse for the Christian argument (not to mention embarrassing), the Supreme Court building came into existence between 1932 and 1935, long after the establishment of the United States government. It can't possibly represent the founding principles of the U.S. government, simply because it got built well after its formation. Nor should we use the art of obscure sculptors who's aim went toward establishing historical references for artistic sake only, as a bases for our law establishment.

Of course the observant reader will also recognize that we can't use it to establish a Pagan origin for the same reasons, but this essay represents satire, and if Christians insist on using anachronisms for evidence, then we Pagans insist on using the very same unreliable methods too.

cushioncrawler
08-08-2011, 09:24 PM
Conclusion

As I have shown, the intent of our most influential American founding fathers constructed our government based on Pagan ideas. Even their graves reflect Pagan inscriptions and design. The first political document, the Declaration of American Independence, describes Nature's God, a Deist Pagan concept, not the God of Jesus , Moses, or Mohammed. The United States Constitution reflects an exclusion of religion with no reference to a Judeo-Christian god at all. Yet it does indirectly refer to our Pagan Gods, Janus, Mars, Sunne by using the calendar words "January," "March," and "Sunday." American currency symbols reflect Pagan gods and goddesses with references to the Goddess of Liberty, Goddess of Justice, Minerva, and Hercules. None of the early American currency used the motto "In God We Trust." American buildings reflect ancient Greek and Roman Pagan architectural design with many references to our cherished Pagan Gods.

In virtually every case, the thoughts of our most influential American founders consisted of Pagan freethought. So why do Christians claim America as a Christian nation? Because unbeknownst to them, they refer to God symbols put on coins and pledges placed long after the formation of the U.S. government. Sometimes they refer to the words of political Christians like Patrick Henry who proposed a tax to help sustain "some form of Christian worship" for the state of Virginia, or to pious Americans who had little influence on the government. These early Americans who fought for a Christian presence in the American government lost the day. Instead the Pagans prevailed and they won by a large margin with its crowning glory, the Constitution, the American document that serves as the Pagan Law of the Land. Right-wing Christians will also dishonestly (or through ignorance) use quotes from early Americans who wrote in their youth but had not yet changed their minds against Christianity (this especially holds true with the Christian raised Franklin who strongly criticized Christianity in his later life).

So for those of you who have believed incorrectly all these years, you can now reconsider your beliefs and come home to the truth of the matter: the United States of America stands on a foundation of Pagan ideas. Praise Goddess Libertas!

cushioncrawler
08-08-2011, 09:27 PM
A small revelation

The astute reader will realize that I wrote this essay as satire against those Christians who go around claiming America as a Christian nation because of the few Judeo-Christian symbolic references found on various artifacts ("God" on coins, 10 Commandments in front of court houses, etc.). If we use mottoes, pledges, and pictures of coins as a means to determine our founding principles, then the Christians will lose by a large margin considering the numerous pagan references that far outstrip the number of Christian references.

Although I have attempted to present an accurate history of pagan references above, I have purposely hidden the secular reasons for the founding principles of U.S. government. Our founding fathers never intended our country to reflect religious pagan or Christian principles. They formed a secular government (the first in the world) in order to separate religion from politics which includes the separation of pagan, and Judeo-Christian religions. Yes, indeed, American founders founded our government upon pagan ideas, but not on pagan religious ideas.

The references to pagan deities do not violate separation of church and state because the religions of these deities no longer exist. Through force, Christianity and Islam virtually wiped out all the European and middle-east pagan religions from the 4th century onward by labeling them heretics, burning them at the stake, and destroying their sacred texts. Our founding fathers used pagan symbols to represent the ideas of liberty and freedom, not to promote pagan religions. The use of "God" in the Pledge of Allegiance and on currency, on the other hand, got put there precisely to promote Christianity. These uses of a monotheistic "God" points to an existing religion, and for this reason, violates separation of church and state.

In this tongue-and-cheek historical lesson, I presented myself as pagan, but of course I don't really practice pagan worship any more than I do Christianity or Judaism. Nor did any of our most influential founding fathers. I find no offense in using dead pagan symbology, but the use of monotheistic Christian symbols certainly offends many freethinkers, atheists, or the polytheistic religious.

So if anyone points to the 10 Commandments, the Pledge of Allegiance, or the word "God" on a coin, and tries to claim America as Christian, give them a lesson about our pagan roots.

cushioncrawler
08-08-2011, 09:28 PM
Notes:

[1] See Locke's An Essay Concerning Human Understanding and the Second Treatise of Civil Government

[2] Christians have objected to these claims and attempted to put in their own spin. For example, some dishonest Christians have tried to claim that because the end of the Constitution records the year of its ratification, "the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven," that this means the Constitution refers to Christianity. Although, indeed, it uses the word "Lord", it does not refer to Jesus but rather to the dating method. The term simply conveys a written English form of the Latin, Anno Domini (AD). This scripted form served as a common way of dating in the 1700s.

[3] Satanism derives from Judeo-Christian-Islam beliefs, usually in the form of a rebellion by ex-Christians, ex-Jews, or ex-Islamics. Pagan beliefs, on the other hand, have nothing to do with Satanism because Pagans don't believe in Satan or a Judeo-Christian god. They only see forms of Christian Satanism, Islamic Satanism, and Jewish Satanism, but not Pagan Satanism. These anti-Judeo-Christian-Islam beliefs represent the opposite side of the same religious coin. [See God and Satan: Two Sides of the Same Coin.]

LWW
08-09-2011, 01:32 AM
You seem to be trying awfully hard to convince yourself Mac.

cushioncrawler
08-09-2011, 01:52 AM
I am lazy, but luckyly there iz lots of stuff out there written by experts who hav dunn the hard work.
mac.

eg8r
08-09-2011, 07:50 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Benjamin Franklin's Tomb

Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790) Statesman, inventor, and the greatest American scientist of the period.

Although his tomb sits on the property of the Christ Church burial ground in Philadelphia, his modest tomb had no references to Christianity. This shouldn't surprise anyone considering that the deist Franklin criticized Christianity.

Note the pennies thrown on the grave for good luck (a Pagan practice that persists to this day).
</div></div>LOL, the pennies definitely still happen. I have been traveling to Philly roughly 20 times a year for the past 4 years (heading back in a few weeks)and every time we have a new person travel with us they want to tour around Philly. We always take them to this grave because it is amazing that such an amazing and important person is sooooo accessible. However, each time we toss a coin on the grave for good luck. My first time going there my coin (a quarter nonetheless) almost rolled off. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif I was horror stricken for that type of bad luck considering I was on business travel and missing Valentines Day with my wife. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif

Your attack on all things biblical though is a bit saddening. There are things you are interested in and mentioned often on the board but no one here takes the time to attack you for it or to attack whatever it is you are interestd in. In retrospect everyone seems to enjoy hearing about what you are doing. Why do you feel the need to be negative all the time?

eg8r

cushioncrawler
08-09-2011, 04:12 PM
I am surrounded by stupidity and madness and selfishness. Theze are the dark ages -- they make the brightest sad. To be truly happy iz to be truly ignorant i am afrayed.
And the biggest enemy of now and the future iz Godma and Krappynomix.

But, u havta get some pleasure where u kan. And some of my friends (and relatives) are biblists. Green atheists are the future.
mac.

Soflasnapper
08-10-2011, 10:03 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL, the more you guys worry the more I think he is exactly what we need. Your failed policies have driven us deep enough into debt even deeper than we would have thought and certainly will result in even deeper than the "estimators", used by the current WH, tell us. I like that Perry has tried to distance himself from W and is not a Bush-look-alike.

eg8r </div></div>

Oh, Ed! You obviously do not know the history of the increase in debt in Texas under this guy's terms of office.

I've read it is as much up percentage wise as the federal government's, OR HIGHER.

I don't have the facts on this, but if it is true, surely you must take back what you said?

eg8r
08-10-2011, 10:30 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've read it is as much up percentage wise as the federal government's, OR HIGHER.
</div></div>That is definitely not what we are looking for but if he is on track to spend like Obama then must call those points "even" and look at the rest. As far as the rest, I take Perry over Obama any day.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't have the facts on this, but if it is true, surely you must take back what you said? </div></div>So basically what you are saying is that you want to make up a statement and then ask me to recant what I have said? The thing is...nothing what you said discounts the fact that the Dems have driven our debt even higher than W and Perry is doing a good job at trying to distance himself from W. If the debt in Texas went up because of Perry, that has nothing to do with the Obama debt that is going to drive into oblivion. We already know that all the estimates out this WH have been wrong on every issue so that means the estimates on the costs for the HC bill will be wrong also. What doesn't give us a warm fuzzy is that none of the estimates have been wrong to the "good" but all have been to the bad.

If there is a Dem candidate that actually voted against all the spending increases, voted for simplifying the debt, did not receive donor money from the same evil people that donated to the RNC and Obama, ran on shrinking the government drastically then I would vote for them. I don't follow the letter in the parenthesis like you guys (namely gayle). If that doesn't happen and Perry decides to run then at this point in the game (still quite early) I will vote for him over Obama hands down.

eg8r

Soflasnapper
08-10-2011, 12:02 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am surrounded by stupidity and madness and selfishness. Theze are the dark ages -- they make the brightest sad. To be truly happy iz to be truly ignorant i am afrayed.
And the biggest enemy of now and the future iz Godma and Krappynomix.

But, u havta get some pleasure where u kan. And some of my friends (and relatives) are biblists. Green atheists are the future.
mac. </div></div>

A long while ago in this thread I agreed with the notion that many of our national icons are pagan. That is entirely true, and I'll add that the lengthy statements of other examples in the meantime seem equally true. (Just as it is true that many relatively scoffed-at religious sects, say, the Jehovah's Witnesses, or the 7th Day Adventists, have a lot of true things that they alone among the other religions are willing to state publicly).

I draw the further conclusion that the real religion of the key power groups in the world appears to be the old Egyptian religion, run through Masonic mystical symbolism as a cover. Which might be the real Judaism, or at least its mystical side as we see it in the Kabbalah. Apart from Jerusalem, there was a very influential center for Judaism in Egypt (at Alexandria, iirc), where in fact Jesus may have received considerable early training. (The Holy Family fled to Egypt, we are told, and then there is a blackout in accepted scripture as to what Jesus was doing in His childhood until He went back to Jerusalem and astonished the rabbis there with his preternatural knowledge as a youngster.)

Is there any evidence to support this notion? Why yes, thank you for asking!

Richard Hoagland has run a lot of recent world history through an astronomy program, which can run the sky forward or backward, to show where given planets and stars are at critical times in history.

Over and over again, events that were planned, and events that were supposedly unplanned, take place with various stars sacred to the Egyptians (Sirius, e.g., other stars in Orion's belt, and others) at critical Masonic sacred angles (or hyperdimensional model angles) above the skies (or below the horizon) where these events took place, or over the area of the world most affected.

Running the numbers, these coincidences are extremely unlikely to result from chance, which rather indicates that even the supposedly unplanned events (such as the attempted but failed assassination of Reagan) were actually planned to occur under such auspices.

These were originally found around the NASA events in our space program, as if, at least, our space program was guided by such pagan ideas from on high, if nothing else was. Then, upon this probable cause, the astronomy program was used, and many many other events in world history apart from NASA events showed the same coinkidinks.

How many coincidences before we call it treason? (http://www.enterprisemission.com/table_of_coincidence.htm)

Soflasnapper
08-10-2011, 02:08 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've read it is as much up percentage wise as the federal government's, OR HIGHER.
</div></div>That is definitely not what we are looking for but if he is on track to spend like Obama then must call those points "even" and look at the rest. As far as the rest, I take Perry over Obama any day.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't have the facts on this, but if it is true, surely you must take back what you said? </div></div>So basically what you are saying is that you want to make up a statement and then ask me to recant what I have said? The thing is...nothing what you said discounts the fact that the Dems have driven our debt even higher than W and Perry is doing a good job at trying to distance himself from W. If the debt in Texas went up because of Perry, that has nothing to do with the Obama debt that is going to drive into oblivion. We already know that all the estimates out this WH have been wrong on every issue so that means the estimates on the costs for the HC bill will be wrong also. What doesn't give us a warm fuzzy is that none of the estimates have been wrong to the "good" but all have been to the bad.

If there is a Dem candidate that actually voted against all the spending increases, voted for simplifying the debt, did not receive donor money from the same evil people that donated to the RNC and Obama, ran on shrinking the government drastically then I would vote for them. I don't follow the letter in the parenthesis like you guys (namely gayle). If that doesn't happen and Perry decides to run then at this point in the game (still quite early) I will vote for him over Obama hands down.

eg8r </div></div>

From Politifact Texas (http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2010/mar/04/bill-white/white-says-texas-debt-has-doubled-under-perry/) (note, analysis from FY 2009)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Debt has almost doubled in Austin under Gov. Perry," White said. "They think you will not notice this!"

Game on.

Is White right?

We checked with the Texas Bond Review Board, which oversees the state's issuance of most bonds used to fund numerous activities, from helping local governments with economic development to building prisons to making housing loans to veterans. According to the board's annual reports, Texas had $34.08 billion in outstanding bonds and notes as of Aug. 31 — the end of the 2009 fiscal year.

Perry took office Dec. 21, 2000 — nearly five months into fiscal year 2001. At the end of that year, Texas had $13.7 billion in outstanding bonds and notes. Adjusting for inflation, that would have equaled $16.6 billion in 2009.

[...]

It's clear the amount of state debt has more than doubled since Perry became governor.

We rate White's statement as True.
</div></div>

A more current statement of Texas debt finds this:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Texas has a total state debt of $81,128,512,515 when calculated by adding the total of outstanding debt, pension and OPEB UAAL’s, unemployment trust funds and the 2010 budget gap as of July 2010.[4]</div></div>

Link (http://sunshinereview.org/index.php/Texas_state_budget)

Just taking the ballpark quotient of 81.13B/13.7B = 5.92, apparently under Perry's governorship, Texas debt is up 592%, making W's 95% increase in 8 years seem modest.

Perry is big on increasing debt, like he's big with Big Oil, and like he's big with the same Bilderburgers that put W's father, Clinton, W, and Obama in office.

AmericanFreePress (http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/perry_bilderberg_271.html)

Got to look these gift horses in the mouth, closely!

Gayle in MD
09-14-2011, 10:40 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HOUSTON — Standing on a stage surrounded by thousands of fellow Christians on Saturday morning, Gov. Rick Perry of Texas called on Jesus to bless and guide the nation’s military and political leaders and “those who cannot see the light in the midst of all the darkness.”

“Lord, you are the source of every good thing,” Mr. Perry said, as he bowed his head, closed his eyes and leaned into a microphone at Reliant Stadium here. <span style='font-size: 14pt'>“You are our only hope,</span> and we stand before you today in awe of your power and in gratitude for your blessings, and humility for our sins. Father, our heart breaks for America. We see discord at home. We see fear in the marketplace. We see anger in the halls of government, and as a nation we have forgotten who made us, who protects us, who blesses us, and for that we cry out for your forgiveness.” </div></div>

No point in voting for Perry then. His only solution is divine intervention!

link (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/us/politics/07prayer.html?ref=us)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mr. Perry had invited his fellow governors to join him, but only Gov. Sam Brownback of Kansas, a Republican, attended. Gov. Rick Scott of Florida made a video statement that was played in the stadium. </div></div>


Q


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As the Washington Post reported on Thursday, professors have been ranked according to how profitable they were to the university. Previous reports suggested Perry wanted to treat students as "customers" and tie teacher bonuses to anonymous student evaluations.

One reason that might explain his hostility toward the system: He didn't do very well in it. A source in Texas passed The Huffington Post Perry's transcripts from his years at Texas A&M University. The future politician did not distinguish himself much in the classroom. While he later became a student leader, he had to get out of academic probation to do so. <u>He rarely earned anything above a C in his courses -- earning a C in U.S. History, a D in Shakespeare, <span style='font-size: 17pt'>and a D in the principles of economics.</span> Perry got a C in gym.
</u>
Perry also did poorly on classes within his animal science major. In fall semester 1970, he received a D in veterinary anatomy, a F in a second course on organic chemistry and a C in animal breeding. He did get an A in world military systems and “Improv. of Learning” -- his only two As while at A&M.

"A&M wasn't exactly Harvard on the Brazos River," recalled a Perry classmate in an interview with The Huffington Post. "This was not the brightest guy around. We always kind of laughed. He was always kind of a joke." </div></div> </div></div>


<span style='font-size: 20pt'>
In a memo to his House Republican caucus released after Obama spoke on Monday afternoon, Majority Leader Eric Cantor doubled down on his insistence that there be no tax increases included in the next round of deficit negotiations. Though this position ignores the fact that taxes are set to go up automatically in 2013 if Congress does not cut a deal with President Obama, it also suggests that the current debilitating gridlock in Washington is not a passing issue. Score it as a point for Standard & Poor’s.
“There will be pressure to compromise on tax increases,” Cantor writes. “We will be told that there is no other way forward. I respectfully disagree.”

The memo also makes clear that Republicans will not simply sit by as Obama tries to pressure Republicans to pass his stimulative measures. “Our primary focus must be to get the economy going and get people back to work,” Cantor writes. “While I will be providing you with a more detailed list of legislative proposals before we return in September, it is my intention that the House will take continual and steady action on bills to reduce or eliminate regulatory barriers to job creation this fall.”

The entire memo is produced in full below.

MEMORANDUM

TO: House Republicans
FR: Eric Cantor
DT: August 8, 2011
RE: S&P Downgrade of U.S.

Like many of you, I spent the weekend attempting to put Standard and Poor’s Friday night downgrade of U.S. government debt into context and understand its point of view. After hearing from many of you and from respected experts outside of government, I wanted to take a brief moment and outline my initial thoughts. I welcome and would appreciate any feedback you may have.

Two Crises:

As we all know, America is facing two related but separate crises. The first is the federal government’s debt crisis that is the result of decades of fiscal mismanagement by both political parties. The second is the economic and jobs crisis, which has resulted in record unemployment and made it harder for businesses to grow and create jobs. I believe that America’s jobs crisis has been compounded by the Obama Administration’s anti-business, hyper-regulatory, pro-tax increase agenda –which has led to dangerous uncertainty in our economy. While much of our time this Congress has been focused on the former, it is the latter that is most directly and dramatically impacting the lives of individuals, families, and small businesses throughout this country.

Anyone who has looked at the numbers cannot seriously discount S&P’s concerns over our government’s rising public debt burden. I do, however, believe its analysis is overly focused on resolving the debt crisis in a manner that would greatly worsen the jobs crisis, which would be a catastrophic mistake. This is not surprising, as S&P’s job is to opine on the federal government’s balance sheet. Indeed, S&P makes clear in its Friday report that it takes, “no position on the mix of spending and revenue measures that Congress and the Administration might conclude is appropriate for putting the U.S.’s finances on a sustainable footing.”

As legislators focused not just on our debt crisis, but also on getting the 14 million currently unemployed Americans back to work, we cannot afford to be so ambivalent when it comes to revenues. As I learned during the two months of debt limit negotiations, ‘revenues’ is just a code word for the President’s desire to tax individuals, families, and small business people earning over $200-250,000 per year.

S&P seems particularly focused on what it sees as the inability of the political parties to bridge our differences on the best way to eliminate the deficit. By this it means – in part – our unwillingness to raise taxes. The bottom of page four of the S&P analysis describes that a base case scenario, which results in the AA+ rating with a negative outlook, “now assumes that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, due to expire by the end of 2012, remain in place. We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the [Budget Control Act].”

Now to be fair, S&P is also clearly concerned about what it perceives as an unwillingness to tackle our insolvent entitlement programs, which are the biggest drivers of our debt, “the containment of which [S&P] and most other independent observers regard as key to long-term fiscal sustainability.”

So Where Does This Leave Us?

In all of the discussions Speaker Boehner and I have had with the President this year, the President has repeatedly made clear that even if we agree to all of his requested tax increases, he would never support the type of structural changes to Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security necessary to make these programs solvent as envisioned in our budget resolution.

More disturbingly, the President and Congressional Democrats have also argued that they will only consider modest changes to our current entitlement programs if we agree to tax increases.

For those 14 million Americans currently looking for work, this is a trade we simply cannot afford to make. Raising taxes in this economy will only make it harder for working families and the very small businesses we are counting on to create jobs and get our economy going.

But don’t take my word for it; here is what two Harvard economists concluded in a 2009 study about the various approaches to closing budget deficits, “For fiscal adjustments we show that spending cuts are much more effective than tax increases in stabilizing the debt and avoiding economic downturns. In fact, we uncover several episodes in which spending cuts adopted to reduce deficits have been associated with economic expansions rather than recessions.” (Alesina, A. and Ardagna, S., “Large Changes in Fiscal Policy: Taxes Versus Spending,” National Bureau of Economic Research, Working Paper No. 15438, Oct. 2009, p. 3, available at http://www.nber.org/papers/w15438.)

The Path Forward:

Over the next several months, there will be tremendous pressure on Congress to prove that S&P’s analysis of the inability of the political parties to bridge our differences is wrong. In short, there will be pressure to compromise on tax increases. We will be told that there is no other way forward. I respectfully disagree.

As we have said from the beginning of the year, the new Republican Majority was elected to change the way Washington does business. We were not elected to raise taxes or take more money out of the pockets of hard working families and business people. People understand Washington can’t keep spending money that it doesn’t have. They want to see less government – not more taxes. This means that spending must be reduced from its current level of 24% of GDP. This is why we were elected, and we are doing the things that we promised we would do. Since we only control one-half of one-third of Washington, these changes are happening incrementally – but make no mistake, they are happening. And that is a sign of progress.

With the Budget Control Act, we made a $917 billion down payment on deficit reduction without raising taxes. The Joint Committee created by the legislation presents another opportunity for an additional $1.2 to $1.5 trillion in savings by the end of the calendar year. Based on the savings identified in our Budget Resolution and in the Biden Group, I firmly believe we can find bipartisan agreement on savings from mandatory programs that can be agreed to without tax increases. I believe this is what we must demand from the Joint Committee as it begins its work.

Now these efforts alone will not solve our debt crisis. That will require fundamental structural reform to our entitlement programs in order to preserve the safety net for the next generation without bankrupting our nation.
Just a few weeks ago, the President himself acknowledged the resistance of his own party to such reforms, as well as the reality that without reform, entitlement programs are unsustainable. On July 11, President Obama said, “…the vast majority of Democrats on Capitol Hill would prefer not to have to do anything on entitlements; would prefer, frankly, not to have to do anything on some of these debt and deficit problems. And I’m sympathetic to their concerns, because they’re looking after folks who are already hurting and already vulnerable, and there are a lot of families out there and seniors who are dependent on some of these programs. And what I’ve tried to explain to them is, number one, if you look at the numbers, then Medicare in particular will run out of money and we will not be able to sustain that program no matter how much taxes go up. I mean, it’s not an option for us to just sit by and do nothing.”
But doing nothing is exactly what the President did in his budget. The President remains opposed to any structural reforms, and would only nibble around the edges of these programs IF taxes are increased on job creators. Given that reality, I firmly believe that these are issues that will be central to the decision that voters will make in the 2012 election.

On Fox News this past Sunday, our colleague Paul Ryan perhaps summed it up best. When discussing the Joint Committee and the goals being set for it, he said, “I think people are overemphasizing what the Committee is going to achieve. I don’t think the Committee will have a full fix to the problems. Democrats do not want to address the health care bill or put out a plan. The President hasn’t put out a specific plan to fix the problem and they don’t want to go with structural entitlement reform which is what you have to do to get the economy growing… I want to make sure people understand that I don’t think [the committee] is going to fix all of our fiscal problems. I hope it is a Committee that will get a down payment on the problems. Ultimately, I think the leadership in Washington needs to be changed.”

This is our challenge for the next 15 months.

In the meantime, our primary focus must be to get the economy going and get people back to work, which is why I have been working with many of our Committee Chairmen to prepare a fall legislative agenda focused on economic growth through reducing the regulatory and tax burden on job creators. While I will be providing you with a more detailed list of legislative proposals before we return in September, it is my intention that the House will take continual and steady action on bills to reduce or eliminate regulatory barriers to job creation this fall.

The new Republican Majority is finally holding Washington accountable, and has begun to business as usual. Our country currently faces two very serious crises – debt and jobs. These two crises are not mutually exclusive, but they are equally dangerous. That is why it is absolutely critical that as policies are developed to overcome each, we consider their impact upon each other. Anything less would be negligent.

Thank you,
Eric


Read more: http://swampland.time.com/2011/08/08/eri.../#ixzz1XwhtwNza (http://swampland.time.com/2011/08/08/eric-cantor-shoots-back-still-no-compromise-on-taxes/#ixzz1XwhtwNza) </span>