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LWW
08-13-2011, 07:17 AM
Salt was the food preservative that allowed the human species to survive, store food, and use the free time available thereafter to develop modern civilization.

Salt is a key ingredient in the chemical actions which power the human body.

Too little salt in one's system will cause a variety of neurological problems.

In spite of all of this, what does the nanny state propose?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... Brooklyn assemblyman, Felix Ortiz, has proposed a bill that would make it illegal for restaurants to use salt in the preparation of food. Period.

Plain as day, or perhaps unsalted french fries, Assembly Bill A10129, introduced last Friday, says, <span style='font-size: 17pt'>“No owner or operator of a restaurant in this state shall use salt in any form in the preparation of any food for consumption by customers of such restaurant, including food prepared to be consumed on the premises of such restaurant or off the premises.”</span>

The measure proposes fines of $1,000 for each violation.

Mr. Ortiz, a Democrat ... </div></div>

Soflasnapper
08-13-2011, 11:32 AM
Nobody really denies that the state overreaches. Some differ on what that overreaching involves, and in what cases it's occurring.

Here, of course, the governmental body isn't the federal government, or even the state of NY, but a city government member, one guy, without any information that the city will pass this proposed ordinance. So, perhaps an example of ATTEMPTED overreach, at the most, so far.

But your setup is hilariously misleading.

You pretend that halting the use of salt in restaurant cooking will put the population at risk for 'neurological' problems?

Well, no, it will cause electrolyte problems, and hyponatremia leads to heart problems, not neurological problems.

But are Americans at risk, so near the lowest minimum required levels of sodium intake, so as to actually require that restaurant foods have additional salt added?

Of course not! Average Americans get 3,600 mg of sodium a day, when they need 1,800 to 2,200 mg or so per day. There is FAR MORE sodium intake than is required for health, and likely so much more, that it contributes to DISEASE and malfunction.

This bill is aimed at reducing the OVERDOSING of the population with sodium, not threatening to cause the population to have inadequate intake levels.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> On average, the higher an individual's salt (sodium chloride) intake, the higher an individual's blood pressure. Nearly all Americans consume substantially more salt than they need. Decreasing salt intake is advisable to reduce the risk of elevated blood pressure. Keeping blood pressure in the normal range reduces an individual's risk of coronary heart disease, stroke, congestive heart failure, and kidney disease. Many American adults will develop hypertension (high blood pressure) during their lifetime. Lifestyle changes can prevent or delay the onset of high blood pressure and can lower elevated blood pressure. These changes include reducing salt intake, increasing potassium intake, losing excess body weight, increasing physical activity, and eating an overall healthful diet. </div></div>

From Health.gov's Nutritional Guidelines page on Na and K (http://www.health.gov/DietaryGuidelines/dga2005/document/html/chapter8.htm)


Is it a worthwhile effort, or worthless? I withhold my opinion pending seeing some epidemiological data. It might be very worthwhile.

LWW
08-13-2011, 11:35 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nobody really denies that the state overreaches. Some differ on what that overreaching involves, and in what cases it's occurring.
</div></div>

You do ... incessantly.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here, of course, the governmental body isn't the federal government, or even the state of NY, but a city government member, one guy, without any information that the city will pass this proposed ordinance. So, perhaps an example of ATTEMPTED overreach, at the most, so far.</div></div>

See ... you just did it again in the very next paragraph.

LWW
08-13-2011, 11:40 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But your setup is hilariously misleading.

You pretend that halting the use of salt in restaurant cooking will put the population at risk for 'neurological' problems?

Well, no, it will cause electrolyte problems, and hyponatremia leads to heart problems, not neurological problems. </div></div>

It never ceases to amaze me how many topics you pontificate upon about which you know nearly nothing at all about:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have a low sodium level, you can experience a number of symptoms, ranging from mild physical discomfort to severe neurological problems. It also can be fatal.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/473964-the-effects-of-low-sodium-levels/#ixzz1UvpQuIlu</div></div>

LWW
08-13-2011, 11:42 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But are Americans at risk, so near the lowest minimum required levels of sodium intake, so as to actually require that restaurant foods have additional salt added?</div></div>

And, of course, nobody suggested such a thing ... yet Alinskyism requires all leftists to act as if the topic is something other than what it actually is.

Soflasnapper
08-13-2011, 11:42 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Reduce Your Salt Intake Now!
Posted Aug 25 2008 3:05pm

Salt is something that we need everyday for our food but it is also a 'poison' that could slowly lead us to death without any warning. This is because excessive sodium (the main component of salt) in our body will increase the chance of getting not only hypertension but also heart disease and stroke.



The American Medical Association (AMA) has, therefore, urged the US federal government to take immediate action to reduce excess salt in food. It is believed that this will help save thousands of lives in the future.



Research also shows that most Americans consume 2 to 3 times the amount of sodium required for the body. About 75 to 80 percent of their daily intake of sodium come from processed and restaurant foods. AMA believes that if the salt intake can be reduced by 50 percent over the next 10 years, at least 150,000 lives a year could be saved.



United States is not the first country to make such request to their citizens. Countries like Finland and Britain have already taken actions on salt and promising results have been seen. </div></div>

LWW
08-13-2011, 11:46 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of course not! Average Americans get 5,000 to 7,000 mg of sodium a day, when they need 1,800 to 2,200 mg or so per day. There is FAR MORE sodium intake than is required for health (2x or 3x as much), and likely so much more, that it contributes to DISEASE and malfunction.

This bill is aimed at reducing the OVERDOSING of the population with sodium, not threatening to cause the population to have inadequate intake levels.

Is it a worthwhile effort, or worthless? I withhold my opinion pending seeing some epidemiological data. It might be very worthwhile.</div></div>

And, in closing, you defend the overreaching power of the nanny state.

Nobody of knowledge will deny that too much salt can cause health risks ... but common sense dictates that if liberty has been diminished by the nanny state to the point where a citizen can't use the seasoning of their choice on food, then the idea that we are fee citizens is ridiculous.

LWW
08-13-2011, 11:48 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Reduce Your Salt Intake Now!
Posted Aug 25 2008 3:05pm

Salt is something that we need everyday for our food but it is also a 'poison' that could slowly lead us to death without any warning. This is because excessive sodium (the main component of salt) in our body will increase the chance of getting not only hypertension but also heart disease and stroke.



The American Medical Association (AMA) has, therefore, urged the US federal government to take immediate action to reduce excess salt in food. It is believed that this will help save thousands of lives in the future.



Research also shows that most Americans consume 2 to 3 times the amount of sodium required for the body. About 75 to 80 percent of their daily intake of sodium come from processed and restaurant foods. AMA believes that if the salt intake can be reduced by 50 percent over the next 10 years, at least 150,000 lives a year could be saved.



United States is not the first country to make such request to their citizens. Countries like Finland and Britain have already taken actions on salt and promising results have been seen. </div></div>

</div></div>

You just can't help but defend tyranny can you?

It's just not in you to be free.

Soflasnapper
08-13-2011, 01:17 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nobody of knowledge will deny that too much salt can cause health risks ... but common sense dictates that if liberty has been diminished by the nanny state to the point where a citizen can't use the seasoning of their choice on food, then the idea that we are f[r]ee citizens is ridiculous. </div></div>

This proposed action would not prevent restaurants from having salt on the table, or prevent salt from being sold at the market, or citizens having salt in their home to use as they wish, or prevent them from taking salt into the restaurant if they wish to. What it does is give the consumers the power to know the level of salt in the prepared food (none), as they do not know it at all now, and then control the level of salt they are consuming when eating at the restaurant, by themselves putting the salt amount they want on the food.

That is, it would PREVENT the current situation where a consumer has no ability to know, let alone control, the level of salt he or she gets eating out, and EMPOWER them with both the knowledge and complete control over it.

It would prevent the locally-LICENSED public accommodations from using it preparing foods without limit, and not any of the above other parties and situations from having it, and as much as they want.

We don't consider the local requirements that restaurants be licensed and subject to health inspections to be tyranny. (Well, perhaps YOU do, and if so, let's hear it!)

LWW
08-13-2011, 02:48 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> That is, it would PREVENT the current situation where a consumer has no ability to know, let alone control, the level of salt he or she gets eating out, and EMPOWER them with both the knowledge and complete control over it. </div></div>

That is ridiculous.

1 - Any restaurant will prepare a dish without added salt if requested.

2 - Anyone who can taste can tell if food is heavily salt seasoned ... and as with any restaurant, if the food is acceptable people return. If not, they don't.

3 - Adding salt ONTO foods is not always the same as adding salt INTO foods while being prepared.

Now ... this is where you explain how you don't always defend the gubmint by always defending the gubmint.

cushioncrawler
08-13-2011, 07:06 PM
I looked into salt a long time ago. Salt aint bad. Doctors talk krapp.
No study will find any major problem with eating lots of salt.
There iz a very very minor statistik floating around somewhere -- something like 0.1% of something iz something or aint something. Not worth worrying about. I like lots of salt on allmost everything.
I allways jokes that if ever i go missing in the bush around here at least i know that one day they will find my arse.
mac.

LWW
08-14-2011, 04:24 AM
Salt, or lack thereof, in the extreme can cause issues ... as can be said of most anything.

Iodized ... table salt ... has far more benefits than risks.

Basic table salt is a mixture with small amounts of salts containing iodine. Despite our resident neurologists august opinion ... a lack of iodine in the diet can thyroid issues including goiter ... and iodine deficiency is the leading preventable cause of mental retardation.

But, as with all things statist ... facts be darned, the gubmint needs more power.

Although this bill didn't pass ... it is a sign of our times that we have enough moonbattery for it to be even suggested.

But ... the suggestion comes from the same green death camp which has caused countless human misery due to malaria by the DDT ban.

cushioncrawler
08-14-2011, 05:30 AM
DDT kills innocent mosquitos. Humans are the guilty carriers. We need something that kills humans, and then we kan lick malaria.
mac.

Qtec
08-14-2011, 05:36 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1 - Any restaurant will prepare a dish without added salt if requested. </div></div>

McDonalds will make you a salt free Big Mac?????????

They would first have to order the 'beef' from Argentina.


So if you don't mind waiting.................




Q

LWW
08-14-2011, 05:53 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1 - Any restaurant will prepare a dish without added salt if requested. </div></div>

McDonalds will make you a salt free Big Mac?????????

They would first have to order the 'beef' from Argentina.


So if you don't mind waiting.................




Q </div></div>

Thanks for proving your stupidity.

The bill would have banned the use of salt in preparation of the Big Mac ... not in it's content from the supplier.

And ... yes ... McD's will make you a Big Mac without adding salt if you ask.

Qtec
08-14-2011, 06:19 AM
It was a joke!

The whole idea is ridiculous.

Q

LWW
08-14-2011, 08:45 AM
If so, I apologize.

You have a history, however, of stating patently ridiculous things and clinging to them like a starving dog clings to a bone.

Perhaps you might insert a smiley in the future when you are none serious.

Soflasnapper
08-14-2011, 11:12 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Salt, or lack thereof, in the extreme can cause issues ... as can be said of most anything.

Iodized ... table salt ... has far more benefits than risks.

Basic table salt is a mixture with small amounts of salts containing iodine. Despite our resident neurologists august opinion ... a lack of iodine in the diet can thyroid issues including goiter ... and iodine deficiency is the leading preventable cause of mental retardation.

But, as with all things statist ... facts be darned, the gubmint needs more power.

</div></div>

If you have any facts showing that restaurants use iodized salt, or that restaurant foods' content of iodized salt is critical for the population to get their iodine, please show them.

Here's a little of what I found upon a search:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Iodine Content of Fast Foods Contributes Little to Iodine Levels in the Body

Katherine Kahn, DVM

April 28, 2010 (Boston, Massachusetts) — Only 1 major fast food restaurant — Burger King — consistently uses iodized salt in food preparation, a new study finds. However, the use of iodized salt makes very little difference in levels of urinary iodine among consumers, because iodine levels are generally low in most fast foods, with the exception of some milk and fish products. The findings of the study were presented here at the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists (AACE) 19th Annual Meeting.</div></div> Link (http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/720930)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> What About Restaurant Foods and Fast Food?

Although restaurants generally use non-iodized salt, it is not possible to know whether a particular restaurant is using iodized salt or sea salt. The manager or serving staff may not know what product is being used, or whether butter or other dairy products are present in foods. The ingredients that chain and fast-food restaurants use may change.</div></div> link (http://www.thyca.org/rai.htm)

This source ties a reduction in iodine intake to increased restaurant, fast food, and processed food intake:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Salt used in processed foods is not iodized. Given that people are cooking less at home and buying either restaurant or processed foods, iodine intakes in the U.S. have declined from about 250 μg/day to 157 micrograms/day.</div></div>

link (http://www.saltinstitute.org/Uses-benefits/Salt-in-Food/Essential-nutrient/Iodized-salt)

LWW
08-14-2011, 02:56 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Salt, or lack thereof, in the extreme can cause issues ... as can be said of most anything.

Iodized ... table salt ... has far more benefits than risks.

Basic table salt is a mixture with small amounts of salts containing iodine. Despite our resident neurologists august opinion ... a lack of iodine in the diet can thyroid issues including goiter ... and iodine deficiency is the leading preventable cause of mental retardation.

But, as with all things statist ... facts be darned, the gubmint needs more power.

</div></div>

If you have any facts showing that restaurants use iodized salt, or that restaurant foods' content of iodized salt is critical for the population to get their iodine, please show them.
</div></div>
http://www.roundeyesupply.com/v/vspfiles/photos/DE404582-2.jpg

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cargill High Grade Granulated Iodized Salt 25 Lb.

One of the most widely used salts in foodservice, Diamond Crystal granulated salt should always be on hand in your kitchen. </div></div>

Available in 25# and 50# packages. (http://www.roundeyesupply.com/Cargill-High-Grade-Granulated-Iodized-Salt-25-Lb-p/de404582.htm)

Anything else I can help you with?

Soflasnapper
08-14-2011, 08:10 PM
One of the most widely used salts in foodservice

As is well known, marketing puffery need not be accurate to be legal.

Taking it at face value, it says directly that there are other salts 'most widely used' in foodservice, perhaps even exceeding this company's offering as a market share.

Who provides them, and do they include iodine? This marketing puffery is silent on the issue, so your claim that this shows anything like you hoped it would must be taken with a grain of salt.

Soflasnapper
08-14-2011, 08:16 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cargill Diamond Crystal Granulated Plain Salt 25 Lb.
One of the most widely used salts in foodservice, Diamond Crystal granulated salt should always be on hand in your kitchen.
Also available in 50 lb. bags as Cargill Top-Flo salt, and in 25 and 50 lb bags as Cargill Hi-Grade Plain and Iodized salt.</div></div>

So Cargill also supplies plain salt (i.e., without iodine), and IT AS WELL is one of the most widely used salts in foodservice (they say).

Oh my!

LWW
08-15-2011, 04:11 AM
What is your point?

You wanted evidence that salt provided health benfits ... I provided it ... you wanted evidence that restaurants used iodized salt ... I provided it ... and now you bury your head even further up your nether orifice by claiming the exception to be the rule ... imagine that?

Just admit it ... you will cheer at every opportunity for your beloved party to encroach upon the liberty of others.

El Dubb Dubb shops at sofa's pet shop ... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyyNNPNv1a4)

Soflasnapper
08-15-2011, 10:57 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is your point?

You wanted evidence that salt provided health benfits ... I provided it ... you wanted evidence that restaurants used iodized salt ... I provided it ... and now you bury your head even further up your nether orifice by claiming the exception to be the rule ... imagine that?

Just admit it ... you will cheer at every opportunity for your beloved party to encroach upon the liberty of others.
</div></div>

Here's the evidence I asked for:

If you have any facts showing that restaurants use iodized salt, or that restaurant foods' content of iodized salt is critical for the population to get their iodine, please show them.

You have shown that some salt used in restaurants is iodized, but not that the majority of it is. I provided citations stating that, to the contrary, generally, salt used in restaurants is not iodized, and that in particular, fast food burger chains do not use iodized salt (with but one exception).

You have not shown at all that whatever amount of iodine may be used by some number of restaurants (which may well be the minority of restaurants to begin with), it is in any way critical to the health of Americans, so as to instead HARM Americans if salt was forbidden in the preparation.

Nor have you shown that even at those very restaurants, lack of salt in preparation would mean no salt at the table (might even be that iodized kind).

It's fine to decide that intruding the state (or city, in this case) into such restaurant matters is an over-reach. I'd have that reaction myself until I learned what the pros and cons as to public health involved.

But the claim that doing so would harm the public health has not been provided evidence. Nor is that argument even necessary to believe this is unwarranted interference.

However, going to the public health card as part of your argument opens up that question on the other side. If, in fact, contrary to what you claim, the benefit of restricting salt in restaurant food preparation is far more than any detriment, then this is exactly the cost/benefit analysis that supports this public act of a government for the health of the people.

LWW
08-16-2011, 02:15 AM
TRANSLATED:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I MUST DEFEND BIG GOVERNMENT ...</div></div>