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Gayle in MD
09-01-2011, 10:53 AM
In a press release on its website, the National Religious Campaign Against Torture chastised Cheney for his views on waterboarding.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the release, Rev. Richard Killmer, Executive Director of the National Religious Campaign Against Torture, said, "Mr. Cheney refuses to learn the lesson learned by civilized countries around the world after WWII -- that torture is always immoral and can never be justified under any circumstances. The National Religious Campaign Against Torture is saddened that the former vice president, who authorized various methods of torture including waterboarding, extremes of heat and cold, sleep deprivation, long-term isolation, sensory deprivation and stress positions, continues to defend his authorization of such torture." </div></div>

LWW
09-01-2011, 12:07 PM
There is o credible evidence that has ever been presented that shows that we ever actually tortured anyone ... using the pre Bush non moonbat revised definition of torture of course.

Anyone who believes that what we used at GITMO was actually "WATERBOARDING" ... as defined by the Japanese war crime used against allied POW's ... is truly clueless on the topic.

Anyone that believes the GITMO version of "WATERBOARDING" actually amounted to torture is either clueless or a seditionist.

Anyone that believes the new moonbat definition of "TORTURE" ... which includes putting someone in the same room with a caterpillar ... is actually torture is someone completely bereft of intelligence.

hondo
09-01-2011, 03:19 PM
And remember, folks, dearless leader allowed himself to be waterboarded for 2 solid hours without even saying "uncle" in order to win a million dollar bet from 9ballPaul which Paul shamefully never paid.
I personally don't believe DL had a million dollars had he lost.
This 2 hour "non-torture" was actually witnessed by dl's inflatable sex doll ( Mrs LWW) and dl's cousin Undercover Brother.
Also, sev said he didn't actually witness it but that he would swear that he heard it was true.
If it is true it explains a lot about Lawrence Wilson W's behavior on here.
I feel that Lawrence Wilson willing to sustain brain damage
for the Cheney cause is very admirable.
Don't you?

ugotda7
09-01-2011, 05:02 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And remember, folks, dearless leader allowed himself to be waterboarded for 2 solid hours without even saying "uncle" in order to win a million dollar bet from 9ballPaul which Paul shamefully never paid.
I personally don't believe DL had a million dollars had he lost.
This 2 hour "non-torture" was actually witnessed by dl's inflatable sex doll ( Mrs LWW) and dl's cousin Undercover Brother.
Also, sev said he didn't actually witness it but that he would swear that he heard it was true.
If it is true it explains a lot about Lawrence Wilson W's behavior on here.
I feel that Lawrence Wilson willing to sustain brain damage
for the Cheney cause is very admirable.
Don't you? </div></div>

Been drinkin' some shine huh?

Soflasnapper
09-01-2011, 06:18 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is o credible evidence that has ever been presented that shows that we ever actually tortured anyone ... using the pre Bush non moonbat revised definition of torture of course.

Anyone who believes that what we used at GITMO was actually "WATERBOARDING" ... as defined by the Japanese war crime used against allied POW's ... is truly clueless on the topic.

Anyone that believes the GITMO version of "WATERBOARDING" actually amounted to torture is either clueless or a seditionist.

Anyone that believes the new moonbat definition of "TORTURE" ... which includes putting someone in the same room with a caterpillar ... is actually torture is someone completely bereft of intelligence. </div></div>

Don't portray yourself as a moral monster. Of course, the waterboarding that was done was torture. Whether the PLANNED waterboarding that was DESCRIBED was torture is immaterial, because that is not what was done.

The disparity from what was (arguably) planned, and has been stated as the plan, and what was done, is quite clear from the details of those sessions. (One guy, 186 times in a month (or whatever the number)??!!?!?)

For, they had to make sure a doctor was there, and they had to institute a regime of soft foods or liquid diets, because they were literally drowning these people into unconsciousness and experienced the prisoners' aspirating their own vomit back into their lungs. The doctor was necessary so that these people wouldn't die from the results of these techniques, which you claim weren't torture or torturous.

Even under the psychopathic apologetics claim of the infamous 'torture memo,' that torture is only REALLY torture when there is pain inflicted the equivalent of organ failure and death, since about a hundred prisoners in custody and subjected to something you say is not torture were killed in what the military acknowledged and investigated as 'homicides,' that sick, all-too-high threshhold was met and surpassed in 100+ prima facia cases.

The taxi driver at Baghran Air Base was held under rules of 'interrogation' that allowed for 'slaps' and 'baton hits.' Over time, and for fun, those turned into a means of killing him, by brutalizing his thighs. Evidently, the personnel was amused as he cried out for God's help and mercy (using the wrong name for God, of course, so he must have deserved the treatment). The coroner who examined the body said he'd never seen such pulverization of flesh except if someone had been rolled over by a heavy truck. He bled to death from hemorrhaging in his leg muscles. This is not torture, according to moral monsters.

It was Ronald Reagan who proudly signed into law the War Crimes Act, making those who violated the international laws of war felons under the US code.

As Alberto Gonzalez, then-head of the White House Counsel's Office (prior to his appointment to the AG position), explained to the Bush administration, their roles in the chain of command ordering and authorizing these 'non-torture' tortures made them subject to felony prosecution, and subject to receiving the death penalty if convicted, 'if a different administration were to discover these facts.'(paraphrasing)

And that is when the CYA 'unitary executive theory' was proposed, to say that no law would apply to stop or punish any action by the president under his war time powers, when the country was at war. For the exact reason that the War Crimes Act clearly otherwise applied, and made Bush/Cheney & Co. felons, subject to felony charges, clearly guilty of them, and thus subject to the death penalty.

Gonzalez had the wisdom to understand they were in serious jeopardy, and needed a 'get out of jail free' card to play to block such a future prosecution and result.

I don't respect Gonzo, as he thought his job in high office was to serve and protect W instead of the law, or our Constitution, or the people of the United States, but I must say I agree with his analysis in this case.

raboin
09-02-2011, 01:46 AM
I hope christian turns a heel
And I think the man in green is hurricane helms








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LWW
09-02-2011, 01:51 AM
IMHO a moral monster is one who would put the lives of innocents at risk so that they didn't have to deal with discomforting a murderer by pouring a tad of water up his nose.

This is an example of the war crime of water boarding was like:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">During World War II both Japanese troops, especially the Kempeitai, and the officers of the Gestapo,[106] the German secret police, used waterboarding as a method of torture.[107] During the Japanese occupation of Singapore the Double Tenth Incident occurred. This included waterboarding, by the method of binding or holding down the victim on his back, placing a cloth over his mouth and nose, and pouring water onto the cloth. In this version, interrogation continued during the torture, with the interrogators beating the victim if he did not reply and the victim swallowing water if he opened his mouth to answer or breathe. When the victim could ingest no more water, the interrogators would beat or jump on his distended stomach. </div></div>

This is what was used at GITMO:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The United States's Office of Legal Counsel stated the CIA's definition of waterboarding in a Top Secret 2002 memorandum as follows:
In this procedure, the individual is bound securely to an inclined bench, which is approximately four feet by seven feet. The individual's feet are generally elevated. A cloth is placed over the forehead and eyes. Water is then applied to the cloth in a controlled manner. As this is done, the cloth is lowered until it covers both the nose and mouth. Once the cloth is saturated and completely covers the mouth and nose, air flow is slightly restricted for 20 to 40 seconds due to the presence of the cloth... During those 20 to 40 seconds, water is continuously applied from a height of twelve to twenty-four inches. After this period, the cloth is lifted, and the individual is allowed to breathe unimpeded for three or four full breaths... The procedure may then be repeated. The water is usually applied from a canteen cup or small watering can with a spout... You have... informed us that it is likely that this procedure would not last more than twenty minutes in any one application. </div></div>

As any open minded person can see ... the differences are astounding. The first is actual torture. The second is a scare tactic, leading one to believe that actual torture was imminent.

A key advantage that we once had with these thugs is that they assumed that we would treat them as they would have treated us under the same circumstance. In the theater of the mind ... this was a quite compelling reason to comply as the fear of actual torture being upcoming was at the forefront of their minds.

In the left's demented view of compassion ... this has been taken away fro those who defend our nation, and has almost certainly cost US lives just so the seditious left can get a warm and fuzzy that they are somehow superior to moral monsters such as myself.

LWW
09-02-2011, 02:00 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ugotda7</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And remember, folks, dearless leader allowed himself to be waterboarded for 2 solid hours without even saying "uncle" in order to win a million dollar bet from 9ballPaul which Paul shamefully never paid.
I personally don't believe DL had a million dollars had he lost.
This 2 hour "non-torture" was actually witnessed by dl's inflatable sex doll ( Mrs LWW) and dl's cousin Undercover Brother.
Also, sev said he didn't actually witness it but that he would swear that he heard it was true.
If it is true it explains a lot about Lawrence Wilson W's behavior on here.
I feel that Lawrence Wilson willing to sustain brain damage
for the Cheney cause is very admirable.
Don't you? </div></div>

Been drinkin' some shine huh? </div></div>

Aitch is simply on the Haterade again.

I assume your training has involved water boarding?

This is something I have won 3 bets on now ... not counting the $20K that "No Balls Paul" has reneged on ... over whether I could endure the GITMO water boarding.

Amazingly all 4 have made the same claim that I wouldn't last 10 seconds.

I can say this ... you could never get me to release war secrets under the GITMO version of this if you water boarded me 1,860 times. Especially being that I know that the actual threat of following through and drowning me is non existent.

Gayle in MD
09-02-2011, 08:29 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is o credible evidence that has ever been presented that shows that we ever actually tortured anyone ... using the pre Bush non moonbat revised definition of torture of course.

Anyone who believes that what we used at GITMO was actually "WATERBOARDING" ... as defined by the Japanese war crime used against allied POW's ... is truly clueless on the topic.

Anyone that believes the GITMO version of "WATERBOARDING" actually amounted to torture is either clueless or a seditionist.

Anyone that believes the new moonbat definition of "TORTURE" ... which includes putting someone in the same room with a caterpillar ... is actually torture is someone completely bereft of intelligence. </div></div>

Don't portray yourself as a moral monster. Of course, the waterboarding that was done was torture. Whether the PLANNED waterboarding that was DESCRIBED was torture is immaterial, because that is not what was done.

The disparity from what was (arguably) planned, and has been stated as the plan, and what was done, is quite clear from the details of those sessions. (One guy, 186 times in a month (or whatever the number)??!!?!?)

For, they had to make sure a doctor was there, and they had to institute a regime of soft foods or liquid diets, because they were literally drowning these people into unconsciousness and experienced the prisoners' aspirating their own vomit back into their lungs. The doctor was necessary so that these people wouldn't die from the results of these techniques, which you claim weren't torture or torturous.

Even under the psychopathic apologetics claim of the infamous 'torture memo,' that torture is only REALLY torture when there is pain inflicted the equivalent of organ failure and death, since about a hundred prisoners in custody and subjected to something you say is not torture were killed in what the military acknowledged and investigated as 'homicides,' that sick, all-too-high threshhold was met and surpassed in 100+ prima facia cases.

The taxi driver at Baghran Air Base was held under rules of 'interrogation' that allowed for 'slaps' and 'baton hits.' Over time, and for fun, those turned into a means of killing him, by brutalizing his thighs. Evidently, the personnel was amused as he cried out for God's help and mercy (using the wrong name for God, of course, so he must have deserved the treatment). The coroner who examined the body said he'd never seen such pulverization of flesh except if someone had been rolled over by a heavy truck. He bled to death from hemorrhaging in his leg muscles. This is not torture, according to moral monsters.

It was Ronald Reagan who proudly signed into law the War Crimes Act, making those who violated the international laws of war felons under the US code.

As Alberto Gonzalez, then-head of the White House Counsel's Office (prior to his appointment to the AG position), explained to the Bush administration, their roles in the chain of command ordering and authorizing these 'non-torture' tortures made them subject to felony prosecution, and subject to receiving the death penalty if convicted, 'if a different administration were to discover these facts.'(paraphrasing)

And that is when the CYA 'unitary executive theory' was proposed, to say that no law would apply to stop or punish any action by the president under his war time powers, when the country was at war. For the exact reason that the War Crimes Act clearly otherwise applied, and made Bush/Cheney & Co. felons, subject to felony charges, clearly guilty of them, and thus subject to the death penalty.

Gonzalez had the wisdom to understand they were in serious jeopardy, and needed a 'get out of jail free' card to play to block such a future prosecution and result.

I don't respect Gonzo, as he thought his job in high office was to serve and protect W instead of the law, or our Constitution, or the people of the United States, but I must say I agree with his analysis in this case.






</div></div>

There more than enough, documented proof, that the Waterboarding was horendous, including what you have written.

I've seen a number of respected Military Generals, speak on this subject. Waterboarding isn't something that changes according to the "Style", Waterboarding is Waterboarding, forcing water down into one's

Regardles, even the other "Enhanced Interrogation" versions, of what they were doing to prisoners, is against the Geneva Conventions.

There is no doubt, The entire top level of the Bush Administration, committed treason, and committed War Crimes, and broke the FISA Laws, committed unconstitutional offenses.

I haven't seen any of them leave the country, but two have canceled trips, after learning that the International Human Rights Watch Organization,(Can't recall the correct name of it at this time) was intending to arrest them, both Cheney, and Rumsfeld.

Several countries have out and out warned them, if they show up, they will be arrested.

Cheney thinks he can justify his crimes, and the American People will be stupid ennough to think he was a hero, for breaking our laws, and Treaties.

Hmmm, only the ignorant righties, Dickhead!

The most evil man to ever show up in the American political arena.

G.

Gayle in MD
09-14-2011, 09:51 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> In a press release on its website, the National Religious Campaign Against Torture chastised Cheney for his views on waterboarding.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the release, Rev. Richard Killmer, Executive Director of the National Religious Campaign Against Torture, said, "Mr. Cheney refuses to learn the lesson learned by civilized countries around the world after WWII -- that torture is always immoral and can never be justified under any circumstances. The National Religious Campaign Against Torture is saddened that the former vice president, who authorized various methods of torture including waterboarding, extremes of heat and cold, sleep deprivation, long-term isolation, sensory deprivation and stress positions, continues to defend his authorization of such torture." </div></div> </div></div>


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