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Qtec
09-03-2011, 01:40 AM
link (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/09/02/310818/small-business-contradicts-gop-taxes-regulation/)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Contrary To GOP Claims, Small Businesses Say Taxes And Regulation Aren’t Holding Back Hiring


Predictably, Republicans reacted to today’s dismal jobs number — which showed that zero net jobs were created in August — by blaming the supposed avalanche of taxes and regulations put in place by the Obama administration. <u>“Private-sector job growth continues to be undermined by the triple threat of higher taxes, more failed ‘stimulus’ spending, and excessive federal regulations.</u> Together, these Washington policies have created a fog of uncertainty that’s left small businesses unable to hire and American families worried about the future,” said House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) in a statement today.

However, McClatchy conducted a survey of small business and found that they don’t blame taxes or regulations for their hesitancy to hire:

Politicians and business groups often blame excessive regulation and fear of higher taxes for tepid hiring in the economy. <u>However, little evidence of that emerged when McClatchy canvassed a random sample of small business owners across the nation.</u> [...]

McClatchy reached out to owners of small businesses, many of them mom-and-pop operations, to find out whether they indeed were being choked by regulation, whether uncertainty over taxes affected their hiring plans and whether the health care overhaul was helping or hurting their business.

Their response was surprising.

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>None of the business owners complained about regulation in their particular industries, and most seemed to welcome it. Some pointed to the lack of regulation in mortgage lending as a principal cause of the financial crisis that brought about the Great Recession of 2007-09 and its grim aftermath.</span>

Some small business pointed to the <u>cost of health insurance</u> as holding them back. Others cited <u>a simple lack of customers (consistent with an economic slump caused by lack of demand).</u> “I think the business climate is so shaky that I would not want to undergo any expansion or outlay capital,” said Andy Weingarten, who owns Almar Auto Repair in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Several respondents actually pointed to the 2009 Recovery Act (i.e. the stimulus), which was almost unanimously opposed by Republicans, as helping to boost their businesses. “It allowed those folks to spend and have money and pay for the essentials,” said Rip Daniels, who owns four businesses.

Republicans, however, are continuing to insist on debilitating budget cuts that are not causing the private sector to hire, but that have contributed to an absolute hemorrhaging of jobs in the public sector. <span style='font-size: 14pt'>Since the official end of the recession, the public sector has lost 600,000 jobs.</span> </div></div>

<u>Lack of demand.</u>

The GOP solution is more unemployment and a cut back in spending.

Q

LWW
09-03-2011, 02:23 AM
Yet they don't cite a single one of these small business owners?

I wonder why?

Soflasnapper
09-03-2011, 12:16 PM
Because it was a survey which promises the respondents anonymity, as all polling does.

Perhaps you can find an example of a poll that reveals the names of its respondents, but I doubt it.

Qtec
09-03-2011, 12:41 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><u>Yet they don't cite a single one of these small business owners?</u> </div></div>

Actually, they do. link (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/09/01/122865/regulations-taxes-arent-killing.html#storylink=omni_popular)

Q

Soflasnapper
09-03-2011, 04:11 PM
Oh, THAT kind of survey! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif

Gayle in MD
09-03-2011, 06:22 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh, THAT kind of survey! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif

</div></div>

Nothing for you to be embarrassed about. It wasn't a survey that revealed the names of everyone taking it, anyway, so you were correct in your statement... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Gayle in MD
09-03-2011, 06:28 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> link (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/09/02/310818/small-business-contradicts-gop-taxes-regulation/)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Contrary To GOP Claims, Small Businesses Say Taxes And Regulation Aren’t Holding Back Hiring


Predictably, Republicans reacted to today’s dismal jobs number — which showed that zero net jobs were created in August — by blaming the supposed avalanche of taxes and regulations put in place by the Obama administration. <u>“Private-sector job growth continues to be undermined by the triple threat of higher taxes, more failed ‘stimulus’ spending, and excessive federal regulations.</u> Together, these Washington policies have created a fog of uncertainty that’s left small businesses unable to hire and American families worried about the future,” said House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) in a statement today.

However, McClatchy conducted a survey of small business and found that they don’t blame taxes or regulations for their hesitancy to hire:

Politicians and business groups often blame excessive regulation and fear of higher taxes for tepid hiring in the economy. <u>However, little evidence of that emerged when McClatchy canvassed a random sample of small business owners across the nation.</u> [...]

McClatchy reached out to owners of small businesses, many of them mom-and-pop operations, to find out whether they indeed were being choked by regulation, whether uncertainty over taxes affected their hiring plans and whether the health care overhaul was helping or hurting their business.

Their response was surprising.

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>None of the business owners complained about regulation in their particular industries, and most seemed to welcome it. Some pointed to the lack of regulation in mortgage lending as a principal cause of the financial crisis that brought about the Great Recession of 2007-09 and its grim aftermath.</span>

Some small business pointed to the <u>cost of health insurance</u> as holding them back. Others cited <u>a simple lack of customers (consistent with an economic slump caused by lack of demand).</u> “I think the business climate is so shaky that I would not want to undergo any expansion or outlay capital,” said Andy Weingarten, who owns Almar Auto Repair in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Several respondents actually pointed to the 2009 Recovery Act (i.e. the stimulus), which was almost unanimously opposed by Republicans, as helping to boost their businesses. “It allowed those folks to spend and have money and pay for the essentials,” said Rip Daniels, who owns four businesses.

Republicans, however, are continuing to insist on debilitating budget cuts that are not causing the private sector to hire, but that have contributed to an absolute hemorrhaging of jobs in the public sector. <span style='font-size: 14pt'>Since the official end of the recession, the public sector has lost 600,000 jobs.</span> </div></div>

<u>Lack of demand.</u>

The GOP solution is more unemployment and a cut back in spending.

Q </div></div>

yes, they must be defeated if we are to move forward.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
McClatchy reached out to owners of small businesses, many of them mom-and-pop operations, to find out whether they indeed were being choked by regulation, whether uncertainty over taxes affected their hiring plans and whether the health care overhaul was helping or hurting their business.

Their response was surprising.

None of the business owners complained about regulation in their particular industries, and most seemed to welcome it. Some pointed to the lack of regulation in mortgage lending as a principal cause of the financial crisis that brought about the Great Recession of 2007-09 and its grim aftermath.
Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/09/01/12...r#ixzz1WwGYgL4w (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/09/01/122865/regulations-taxes-arent-killing.html#storylink=omni_popular#ixzz1WwGYgL4w) </div></div>

Small Business owners are not as uninformed as Tea party types, most of whom are really the ones on the dole.

Just like most of the Repiglican candidates, and most of the righties on here, as well, are all either on the government dole, or living off government contracts, or, in the case of their presidential candidates, getting subsidies, and tax breaks, AND on the government payrole most of their lives!!!

Colossal Hypocrisy!

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

LWW
09-03-2011, 06:50 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><u>Yet they don't cite a single one of these small business owners?</u> </div></div>

Actually, they do. link (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/09/01/122865/regulations-taxes-arent-killing.html#storylink=omni_popular)

Q </div></div>

Are you so unfamiliar with English that you don't understand a question mark?

If you want to make the point of who they contacted you should post in your quote that data.

Even with that, they only show that they were abvle to find people who agreed with them ... with no hint of how many they needed to sort through to find said agreement.

Open wide ... they will have a new spoonful of "TRUTH" for you soon.

Soflasnapper
09-04-2011, 01:03 PM
I'm a small business owner, and I'd guess a medium size land developer. Small, as to employees involved in the land development side, but larger as to monies involved.

For the small business, we have little issue with either taxes or regulation. Our main problematic interface with government is for applicants for unwarranted unemployment claims (people fired for cause try it all the time, so we have had to paper up their personnel file adequately to defend such claims), and sometimes, issues with municipal or county licensing or inspections.

For the developing, we've had a lot of obstruction and had to jump through many hurdles that delay us, at many levels of government. One, to turn an office park into rental apartments, found significant local citizen opposition, and the city was responsive to their concerns and turned down the proposal on some bogus needed waivers (about two of them) after a lengthy year or more was spent on trying to gain the city approvals required. Prior to that, the city had imposed a beautification zone requiring significant landscaping upgrades, although the site is invisible to the nearest street. The city's delay of several weeks to inspect and finalize approval after we'd done it all at the expense of $85,000 saw a hurricane come in and destroy all the newly-planted foilage. The city imposed some large daily fine, and we now have a lien of over $400,000 accumulated (although they've now offered to drop it to $120,000).

For the marina and hotel site development, it was far harder. We had city, county, state, federal, and local water management districts to all satisfy. The EPA made us take mud drilling core samples to show there were no protected endangered species worms in the silt we'd be disturbing with the 157 slip marina we proposed. The hotel required installing a $500,000 water filtration vault, to protect the waterway, and funding for its 20 year maintenance. To grease the skids with the city council, we were more or less extorted to agree to a $200,000 'donation' to some municipal purpose or other. We were forced to perform 5 iterations of architectural drawings for the hotel's application process. This whole thing has taken 5 years or more, with the final marina approvals just accomplished last month.

So I draw a distinction between actual small business, where at least in my case there is no real impediment from government, and these development businesses, which are quite a bit larger scale, involving multi-million dollar sums. In the latter case, there is no question that there were massive impediments from regulation and the overlapping jurisdictions, all of which had to be satisfied. Even though the city itself was strongly in favor of the project, they (or rather, staff) put up many hurdles, and then there were the OTHER 5 or 6 governmental bodies to also satisfy. Which is why, among other things, including the drying up of financing, that all the other major projects in that city have mainly ended.

Qtec
09-05-2011, 04:23 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><u>Yet they don't cite a single one of these small business owners?</u> </div></div>

Actually, they do. link (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/09/01/122865/regulations-taxes-arent-killing.html#storylink=omni_popular)

Q </div></div>

Are you so unfamiliar with English that you don't understand a question mark?

If you want to make the point of who they contacted you should post in your quote that data.

<span style="color: #3333FF">LOL. The author makes claims and provides links, I know its a process you're not familiar with.</span>

Even with that, they only show that they were abvle to find people who agreed with them ... with no hint of how many they needed to sort through to find said agreement.

<span style="color: #3333FF"><span style='font-size: 14pt'>Now you are making a claim, <u>any links?</u></span></span>

Open wide ... they will have a new spoonful of "TRUTH" for you soon. </div></div>

So, without any proof at all, just because the evidence contradicts the BS being spouted by the GOP - that you lick off their spoon- you go into denial.

"It must be a fix because it would make me be wrong about something and that can't be."



http://blog.karmona.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/ostrich.jpg

Q

Qtec
09-05-2011, 05:15 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I draw a distinction between actual small business, where at least in my case there is no real impediment from government, and these development businesses, </div></div>

This one of the problems, if not the major one,

'what is a small business?'

Under the GOP definition, its anything under 500 employees. Ask the man in the street and he thinks its Joe the Plummer with 20 workers tops!

The GOP says small business when they really mean BIG business.

In every country in Europe there are the same problems. As soon as you want to develop property, there are conditions and regulations. Its nothing unique to the USA.
As you point out, <u>the real problem is the amount of time it takes to process these applications and get approval.</u>



One could argue that there is a case to be made for increasing govt workers to speed up the process.


Thanks for the info.


Talking about regulations, check this out. This is FKN unbelievable.

Q........... link (http://billiardsdigest.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=364474#Post364474)

LWW
09-05-2011, 08:14 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I draw a distinction between actual small business, where at least in my case there is no real impediment from government, and these development businesses, </div></div>

This one of the problems, if not the major one,

'what is a small business?'

Under the GOP definition, its anything under 500 employees. Ask the man in the street and he thinks its Joe the Plummer with 20 workers tops!

The GOP says small business when they really mean BIG business.</div></div>

HERE (http://www.sba.gov/content/guide-size-standards) are the size standards put in place by your beloved state. I must assume that neither the Obama regime nor the democrook congress disagreed with them as they have been on the books for years with no effort to change them.

Based on industry, a "small business" can have as many as 1,500 employees.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Construction – General building and heavy construction contractors have a size standard of $33.5 million in average annual receipts. Special trade construction contractors have a size standard of $14.0 million. The size standard for Land Subdivision is $7.0 million in average annual receipts. The size standard for Dredging is $20.0 million in average annual receipts.

Manufacturing – For approximately 75 percent of the manufacturing industries, the size standard is 500 employees. A small number have a 1,500 employee size standard and the balance have a size standard of either 750 or 1,000 employees.

Mining – All mining industries, except mining services, have a size standard of 500 employees.

Retail Trade – The size standard for most retail trade industries is $7.0 million in average annual receipts. A few, such as grocery stores, department stores, motor vehicle dealers and electrical appliance dealers, have higher size standards. None are above $29.0 million.

Services – For the service industries, the most common size standard is $7.0 million in average annual receipts. Computer programming, data processing and systems design have a size standard of $25.0 million. Engineering and architectural services have different size standards, as do a few other service industries. The highest annual receipts size standard in any service industry is $35.5 million. Research and development and environmental remediation services are the only service industries with size standards stated in number of employees.

Wholesale Trade – For all wholesale trade industries, a size standard of 100 employees is applicable for loans and other financial programs. When acting as a dealer on Federal contracts set aside for small business or issued under the 8(a) program, the size standard is 500 employees and the firm must deliver the product of a small domestic manufacturer, as set forth in SBA’s nonmanufacturer rule, unless waived by the SBA for a particular class of product. However, for those procurements made under the Simplified Acquisition Procedures of the FAR and where the purchase does not exceed $25,000, the nonmanufacturer may deliver the goods of any domestic manufacturer. </div></div>

eg8r
09-05-2011, 07:50 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I draw a distinction between actual small business, where at least in my case there is no real impediment from government, and these development businesses, which are quite a bit larger scale, involving multi-million dollar sums. In the latter case, there is no question that there were massive impediments from regulation and the overlapping jurisdictions, all of which had to be satisfied. Even though the city itself was strongly in favor of the project, they (or rather, staff) put up many hurdles, and then there were the OTHER 5 or 6 governmental bodies to also satisfy. Which is why, among other things, including the drying up of financing, that all the other major projects in that city have mainly ended. </div></div>And you would just love it if they added more red tape and hoops. That is what government does for us.

eg8r

Qtec
09-06-2011, 12:49 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And you would just love it if they added more red tape and hoops. That is what government does for us.

eg8r </div></div>

Talk about being spoon fed.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A couple of years ago, a Republican committee staff director told me candidly (and proudly) what the method was to all this obstruction and disruption. Should Republicans succeed in obstructing the Senate from doing its job, it would further lower Congress's generic favorability rating among the American people. By sabotaging the reputation of an institution of government, the party that is programmatically against government would come out the relative winner.

A deeply cynical tactic, to be sure, but a psychologically insightful one that plays on the weaknesses both of the voting public and the news media. There are tens of millions of low-information voters who hardly know which party controls which branch of government, let alone which party is pursuing a particular legislative tactic. These voters' confusion over who did what allows them to form the conclusion that "they are all crooks," and that "government is no good," further leading them to think, "a plague on both your houses" and "the parties are like two kids in a school yard." <span style='font-size: 14pt'>This ill-informed public cynicism, in its turn, further intensifies the long-term decline in public trust in government that has been taking place since the early 1960s - a distrust that has been stoked by Republican rhetoric at every turn ("Government is the problem," declared Ronald Reagan in 1980).</span> </div></div>

...and then he tripled the nat debt!

Q

eg8r
09-06-2011, 11:50 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Talk about being spoon fed.
</div></div>Your quote says nothing contrary to what I posted in respnose to sofla.

eg8r

Soflasnapper
09-06-2011, 02:19 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I draw a distinction between actual small business, where at least in my case there is no real impediment from government, and these development businesses, which are quite a bit larger scale, involving multi-million dollar sums. In the latter case, there is no question that there were massive impediments from regulation and the overlapping jurisdictions, all of which had to be satisfied. Even though the city itself was strongly in favor of the project, they (or rather, staff) put up many hurdles, and then there were the OTHER 5 or 6 governmental bodies to also satisfy. Which is why, among other things, including the drying up of financing, that all the other major projects in that city have mainly ended. </div></div>

And you would just love it if they added more red tape and hoops. That is what government does for us.

eg8r </div></div>

I thought I made my frustration clear. Obviously, I do not think that. Streamlining these processes would make it easier to do business, and that is what I favor.

However, it was really a worse experience with just one city than with the competing 5 jurisdictions' satisfaction. Although the duplicative or over-lapping jurisdictions did present their own issues, we finally got that one done, whereas we did not achieve our sought approvals from the one sovereign, the city.

Some of the problems were that staff had their own agenda, contrasting with the political leadership. I would think that the politicians would have staff more in tune with their policies, and maybe that was more true than I understand to this very day.

Soflasnapper
09-06-2011, 02:22 PM
HERE are the size standards put in place by your beloved state. I must assume that neither the Obama regime nor the democrook congress disagreed with them as they have been on the books for years with no effort to change them.

All these 'definitions' are is the limit beyond which the SBA will not do loans. There may well be differing definitions for other purposes.

Oddly, then, the larger scale land developments I'm involved in are (likely) small businesses (by these definitions), whereas what I thought was my actual and only small business concern is NOT a small business, by gross proceeds and profit determinations.

Who knew? Color me surprised.

Soflasnapper
09-06-2011, 02:26 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I draw a distinction between actual small business, where at least in my case there is no real impediment from government, and these development businesses, </div></div>

This one of the problems, if not the major one,

'what is a small business?'

Under the GOP definition, its anything under 500 employees. Ask the man in the street and he thinks its Joe the Plummer with 20 workers tops!

The GOP says small business when they really mean BIG business.</div></div>

HERE (http://www.sba.gov/content/guide-size-standards) are the size standards put in place by your beloved state. I must assume that neither the Obama regime nor the democrook congress disagreed with them as they have been on the books for years with no effort to change them.

Based on industry, a "small business" can have as many as 1,500 employees.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Construction – General building and heavy construction contractors have a size standard of $33.5 million in average annual receipts. Special trade construction contractors have a size standard of $14.0 million. The size standard for Land Subdivision is $7.0 million in average annual receipts. The size standard for Dredging is $20.0 million in average annual receipts.

Manufacturing – For approximately 75 percent of the manufacturing industries, the size standard is 500 employees. A small number have a 1,500 employee size standard and the balance have a size standard of either 750 or 1,000 employees.

Mining – All mining industries, except mining services, have a size standard of 500 employees.

Retail Trade – The size standard for most retail trade industries is $7.0 million in average annual receipts. A few, such as grocery stores, department stores, motor vehicle dealers and electrical appliance dealers, have higher size standards. None are above $29.0 million.

Services – For the service industries, the most common size standard is $7.0 million in average annual receipts. Computer programming, data processing and systems design have a size standard of $25.0 million. Engineering and architectural services have different size standards, as do a few other service industries. The highest annual receipts size standard in any service industry is $35.5 million. Research and development and environmental remediation services are the only service industries with size standards stated in number of employees.

Wholesale Trade – For all wholesale trade industries, a size standard of 100 employees is applicable for loans and other financial programs. When acting as a dealer on Federal contracts set aside for small business or issued under the 8(a) program, the size standard is 500 employees and the firm must deliver the product of a small domestic manufacturer, as set forth in SBA’s nonmanufacturer rule, unless waived by the SBA for a particular class of product. However, for those procurements made under the Simplified Acquisition Procedures of the FAR and where the purchase does not exceed $25,000, the nonmanufacturer may deliver the goods of any domestic manufacturer. </div></div>
</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> This Guide is advisory only, and carries no legal weight. SBA has written it in non-technical language.

[...]

SUMMARY OF SIZE STANDARDS BY INDUSTRY DIVISION

To qualify as a small business concern for most SBA programs, small business size standards define the maximum size that a firm, including all of its affiliates, may be. The SBA has established two widely used size standards – 500 employees for most manufacturing and mining industries and $7.0 million in average annual receipts for most nonmanufacturing industries.</div></div>

eg8r
09-06-2011, 07:34 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought I made my frustration clear. Obviously, I do not think that. Streamlining these processes would make it easier to do business, and that is what I favor.
</div></div>The sarcasm was not very clear. I know you would prefer to streamline it but that is not what increased regulation does, that is not what government does. It is impossible to add to the headcount if they are making it easier for companies like yours to get your permits and approvals quicker.

eg8r

Qtec
09-07-2011, 01:05 AM
The point of the thread - yes it went over your head- was that the BS about 'regulations' holding back job creation, is exactly that. BS.

After 11 years of Voodoo Economics, the country is in a disastrous state. The GOP answer is, <span style='font-size: 14pt'>more of the same</span>....and you guys lap it up.



Q

eg8r
09-07-2011, 08:41 AM
So you are saying you jumped into a side conversation and ran your mouth? Sounds like you...

eg8r

Gayle in MD
09-14-2011, 09:36 AM
We must destroy Repiglican Fascism before it's too late!