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View Full Version : A picture that's worth 1,000,000 words II.



LWW
09-15-2011, 04:42 AM
http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/sk091311dAPR20110913024517.jpg

Qtec
09-15-2011, 05:26 AM
Yes. That is the typical conservative response. Total BS of course.

SS is sound. With minor modification its safe for the next 75 years.

The GOP want to steal that cash and use it for tax cuts for the rich, their base.

Q

LWW
09-15-2011, 05:41 AM
What cash?

Sev
09-15-2011, 05:48 AM
Yah huh? Ya think?

The fox is in the hen house.

eg8r
09-15-2011, 01:46 PM
Obama is the giving tax cuts to the rich right now.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
09-15-2011, 02:48 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes. That is the typical conservative response. Total BS of course.

SS is sound. With minor modification its safe for the next 75 years.

The GOP want to steal that cash and use it for tax cuts for the rich, their base.

Q

</div></div>


Precisely!


More of the same thing that put us into the ditch! REdirecting all of the money upwards to the thieves!

Repiglicans never change.

Their lies are so obvious, only the terminally stupid would still be buying them!



G.

Sev
09-15-2011, 03:50 PM
Remember what the doctor said about your blood pressure dear.

LWW
09-15-2011, 04:38 PM
What cash?

LWW
09-15-2011, 04:39 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Obama is the giving tax cuts to the rich right now.

eg8r </div></div>

They have always supported tax cuts for the rich ... it was Bush who stopped it from happening.

Obama is also proposing raising taxes on the middle class ... which they also now believe they always supported.

Soflasnapper
09-16-2011, 04:32 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What cash? </div></div>

The cash owed for the demand bonds that the government sold to the SS trust fund.

Either the government comes up with that money that is owed, or it doesn't. If it doesn't, then the money that would otherwise be paid to SS to pay its recipients goes to them instead.

LWW
09-17-2011, 03:09 AM
Cash owed is not cash.

Cash is cash.

Soflasnapper
09-17-2011, 01:06 PM
Geebus!

Let's break it down.

Cash owed, if paid, reduces cash available for other things or persons.

Cash owed, if not paid, increases cash available for other things or persons.

The goal is to not pay what is owed back to SS, so as to make that cash available for Wall Street and the investment banks, and for tax cutting for the poor rich people who need a lot more incentive than their current state of riches to be interested in making jobs, allegedly.

cushioncrawler
09-17-2011, 04:20 PM
I am thinking that cash sitting in a bank iz available for other things and iz in theory loaned out in fakt loaned out by a faktor of 10 or 20 or in reality by az much az possible.
Cash in a nonbank pocket or under a nonbank mattress iz available for the owner of the pocket or mattress but duznt do anything and just sits there untill it sees the light of day.

But seeing az the reality iz that banx loan out az much az they possibly kan, regardless of what cash they are holding, then the above stuff iz nowhere.
mac.

LWW
09-17-2011, 05:33 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Geebus!

Let's break it down.

Cash owed, if paid, reduces cash available for other things or persons.

Cash owed, if not paid, increases cash available for other things or persons.

The goal is to not pay what is owed back to SS, so as to make that cash available for Wall Street and the investment banks, and for tax cutting for the poor rich people who need a lot more incentive than their current state of riches to be interested in making jobs, allegedly. </div></div>

Your assumption is faulty in that it assumes one has the cash with which to pay.

Here's how reality works:

1 - I sign a note the bank.

2A - I create wealth with which to repay the note.

2B - Someone else creates wealth with which I repay the note.

2C - I counterfeit the wealth with which to repay the note, which lands me a penalty.

2D - I default, which lands me a penalty.

Heres how it works with the stae:

1 - The state pledges a debty to you.

2A - The state robs someone else of their wealth to pay you the debt through taxation, which punishes everyone.

2B - The state counterfeits the wealth with which to pay the debt, which punishes everyone.

Soflasnapper
09-18-2011, 09:02 PM
You left out the option of refinancing the note, where you re-borrow the amount from another willing lender, and pay back the first lender with the proceeds of the second loan.

The special issue Treasury bonds held by the SS system pay at a face interest of 6%. Money is begging for a yield with security, and currently is taking a mere 2-1/2% for 10 years to have that security. I see little reason that the special issue Treasuries held by the SS system couldn't convert to publicly traded Treasury bonds at market.

The ability to pay can be because we have cash, or because we have borrowing facilities available. That latter is how this country has almost always taken care of debt instruments when they matured and came due-- we borrowed it at market again.

LWW
09-19-2011, 02:54 AM
You left out that we are now printing fiat money to refinance our debt as there are no more willing lenders out there.

Soflasnapper
09-19-2011, 11:29 AM
Says here (http://www.treasurydirect.gov/RI/OFNtebnd) we've been steadily issuing T notes, bills and bonds at auction several times a month, achieving sales at the face, above the face, and slightly below the face interest rates.

LWW
09-19-2011, 12:16 PM
I didn't say we weren't selling them.

I said we are printing fiat money to buy them with.

The reason banks are sitting on so much money is that they have been given the money by the fed.

If they take that money and invest it at 1% they have a 100% profit margin being that they have no actual investment in the funds.

However, even that wasn't enough to prop up the house of cards ... so the fed is buying T-notes on it's own.

Meanwhile ... CHINA IS DUMPING TREASURIES (http://www.kiowacountysignal.com/opinions/x528728496/Is-China-Preparing-to-Dump-its-1-Trillion-of-Treasuries) ... JAPAN IS DUMPING THE DOLLAR (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/the-demise-of-the-dollar-1798175.html) ... FRANCE IS DUMPING THE DOLLAR (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/the-demise-of-the-dollar-1798175.html) ... RUSSIA IS DUMPING THE DOLLAR (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/the-demise-of-the-dollar-1798175.html) ... THE ARABS ARE DUMPING THE DOLLAR (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/the-demise-of-the-dollar-1798175.html) ... but as long as dear leader has a printing press ...

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/gm080318.jpg

Soflasnapper
09-19-2011, 05:03 PM
The reason banks are sitting on so much money is that they have been given the money by the fed.


Almost. They are being paid interest on their reserves, even in excess of what is legally required to be held as reserves.

If all those countries were (at the time of the article, in Oct. '09) "dumping their dollar holdings" (which the article doesn't say they are), where do we see those results?

Fact is that DSK's removal, and Gaddafi's removal, both helped quash the IMF and Arab move away from the dollar as the world's reserve currency. Japan may have been taught a covert lesson by their earthquake, tsunami and nuclear disaster events.

Perhaps more importantly, the problems in the Euro zone seem to make the Euro most immediately in danger of collapse, and since IT is the only option as a single world reserve currency, that option is also off the table.

China has NOT dumped Treasuries in the two years from this article's publication, but SAID they would stop BUYING new ones. They haven't even done that, as they now buy through intermediaries in London.

Whether these persons quoted as advocating the reduced holdings of international currency reserves have any say-so in those events is questionable. If they were the decision makers, they would announce that decision, not simply say it ought to be done.

But I admit both that there is a central bank of China in the first place, and how it's structured with who in control, have escaped my notice to date.

LWW
09-20-2011, 12:54 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">where do we see those results?
</div></div>

Higher gold, silver, petroleum prices.

Anything else?

Soflasnapper
09-21-2011, 11:17 AM
Late July oil was at $100, and now it is at $86. Which does not really support your point.