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Sev
09-20-2011, 07:21 AM
As we enter the "Fall of Hope"
Home building drops another 5%.

The only thing that appears to be shovel ready is burying the economy.



<span style="color: #000000"><span style='font-size: 23pt'>August home building fell 5 pct., slide continues</span>

(AP) WASHINGTON Builders broke ground on fewer homes in August, a reminder that the housing market remains depressed.

The Commerce Department said Tuesday that builders began work on a seasonally adjusted 571,000 homes last month, a 5 percent decline from July. That's less than half the 1.2 million that economists say is consistent with healthy housing markets.

Single-family homes, which represent roughly two-thirds of home construction, fell 1.4 percent. Apartment building plunged 12.4 percent. Building permits, a gauge of future construction, rose 3.2 percent.

Hurricane Irene also slowed construction in the Northeast.

Overall, homebuilding fell to its lowest levels in 50 years in 2009, when builders began work on just 554,000 homes. Last year was not much better.

While home construction represents a small portion of the housing market, it has an outsize impact on the economy. Each home built creates an average of three jobs for a year and about $90,000 in taxes, according to the National Association of Home Builders.

After previous recessions, housing accounted for at least 15 percent of economic growth in the United States. Since the recession officially ended in June 2009, it has contributed just 4 percent.

Cash-strapped builders are struggling to compete with deeply discounted foreclosures and short sales, when lenders allow borrowers to sell homes for less than what is owed on their mortgages. And few homes are selling.

New-home sales fell in July to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 298,000, the weakest pace in five months. This year is shaping up to be the worst for sales on records dating back a half-century.

Renting has become a preferred option for many Americans who lost their jobs during the recession and were forced to leave their homes. Still, the surge in apartments has not been enough to offset the loss of single-family homebuilding.

Another reason sales have fallen is that previously occupied homes are a better deal than new homes. The median price of a new home is nearly 28 percent higher than the median price for a re-sale. That's almost twice the markup in a healthy housing market.

The trade group said Monday that its survey of industry sentiment fell slightly to 14 in September. The index has been below 20 for all but one month during the past two years. Any reading below 50 indicates negative sentiment about the housing market. The index hasn't reached 50 since April 2006, the peak of the housing boom.
__________________</span>

Soflasnapper
09-20-2011, 09:44 AM
Besides the financial big bang explosion, this housing thing is the biggest part of what has hosed America. (And of course, they were related problems.)

Unless and until the housing market is straightened out, the economy will be an insolvable problem.

Unless and until people decide the federal government has to solve this, it won't get done in any even medium term time frame.

However, many people are convinced the federal government should do nothing in particular (well, maybe 5 or 6 functions, but no more than that).

That is, for ideological reasons, the country will not be allowed to do what is necessary.

Yes, it would be quite an intervention to have the government do something in the private real estate market comparable to what it did with commercial real estate in the S&L debacle. In that case, something north of 60% of all commercial real estate was taken into the RTC's receivership, and liquidated. Probably this is exactly what is needed now in the home market.

Gayle in MD
09-21-2011, 07:11 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Besides the financial big bang explosion, this housing thing is the biggest part of what has hosed America. (And of course, they were related problems.)

Unless and until the housing market is straightened out, the economy will be an insolvable problem.

Unless and until people decide the federal government has to solve this, it won't get done in any even medium term time frame.

However, many people are convinced the federal government should do nothing in particular (well, maybe 5 or 6 functions, but no more than that).

That is, for ideological reasons, the country will not be allowed to do what is necessary.

Yes, it would be quite an intervention to have the government do something in the private real estate market comparable to what it did with commercial real estate in the S&L debacle. In that case, something north of 60% of all commercial real estate was taken into the RTC's receivership, and liquidated. Probably this is exactly what is needed now in the home market.

</div></div>

If only!

I think it's pretty obvious that as long as Repiglicans hold the majority in the House, nothing will improve.

They filibustered the recovery, and everything else they could get away with when Dems had majority, then won the majority and proceeded to obstruct absolutely everything they could.

Most Americans are aware that this is The Bush/blank check Repiglican majority Recession.

Years of unprecedented spending and borrowing, warring, adding a prescription drug program, and cutting taxes, annd ignoring the many, many warnings about the growing bubble, and the corruption on Wall St., is how we got into this mess. The VAST MAJORITY of Americans know this, annd have watched the Repiglicans turn right around, after spending this country into a ditch, and block spending to recover from the ditch they dug for this country.

They are PIGS, and must be removed from office. That is our only hope to strengthen the Middle Class, end this Bush recession, protect and fulfill the promise of publcic education by investing in our schools, and retraining our workers, invest in our crumbling infrastructure, to create jobs, and by investing in clean renewable fuels, that will not make more people sick from pollution, or contribute to the existing REAL threats from climate change, and protect the ill, the hungry and homeless, AND our food, air and water.

Polls show that Americans by a huge margin, are against Repiglican policies, every single one of their policies.

They spend, when we should not spend, and prevent spending when we must spend.

IDIOTS!!!

G.

Sev
09-21-2011, 07:54 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Besides the financial big bang explosion, this housing thing is the biggest part of what has hosed America. (And of course, they were related problems.)

Unless and until the housing market is straightened out, the economy will be an insolvable problem.

Unless and until people decide the federal government has to solve this, it won't get done in any even medium term time frame.

However, many people are convinced the federal government should do nothing in particular (well, maybe 5 or 6 functions, but no more than that).

That is, for ideological reasons, the country will not be allowed to do what is necessary.

Yes, it would be quite an intervention to have the government do something in the private real estate market comparable to what it did with commercial real estate in the S&L debacle. In that case, something north of 60% of all commercial real estate was taken into the RTC's receivership, and liquidated. Probably this is exactly what is needed now in the home market.

</div></div>

Unfortunately the housing market debacle is directly related to government interference.
Now we have the added problem of over 40,000 companies having moved out of the US.
So now not only do we have a government induced recession which has lead to high unemployment. We also have a declining pool of business located in the US that are willing to hire.

The simple fact of the matter the environment for business in no longer friendly.
I just read an article where the DOE is regulating showers heads based on the amount of water flow. It is causing product diversity in this area to decline.

The government has become far to intrusive in the free market and is stifling its growth. Until that changes dont expect the economy to become healthy any time soon.

Sev
09-21-2011, 08:00 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Besides the financial big bang explosion, this housing thing is the biggest part of what has hosed America. (And of course, they were related problems.)

Unless and until the housing market is straightened out, the economy will be an insolvable problem.

Unless and until people decide the federal government has to solve this, it won't get done in any even medium term time frame.

However, many people are convinced the federal government should do nothing in particular (well, maybe 5 or 6 functions, but no more than that).

That is, for ideological reasons, the country will not be allowed to do what is necessary.

Yes, it would be quite an intervention to have the government do something in the private real estate market comparable to what it did with commercial real estate in the S&L debacle. In that case, something north of 60% of all commercial real estate was taken into the RTC's receivership, and liquidated. Probably this is exactly what is needed now in the home market.

</div></div>

If only!

I think it's pretty obvious that as long as Repiglicans hold the majority in the House, nothing will improve.

They filibustered the recovery, and everything else they could get away with when Dems had majority, then won the majority and proceeded to obstruct absolutely everything they could.

Most Americans are aware that this is The Bush/blank check Repiglican majority Recession.

Years of unprecedented spending and borrowing, warring, adding a prescription drug program, and cutting taxes, annd ignoring the many, many warnings about the growing bubble, and the corruption on Wall St., is how we got into this mess. The VAST MAJORITY of Americans know this, annd have watched the Repiglicans turn right around, after spending this country into a ditch, and block spending to recover from the ditch they dug for this country.

They are PIGS, and must be removed from office. That is our only hope to strengthen the Middle Class, end this Bush recession, protect and fulfill the promise of publcic education by investing in our schools, and retraining our workers, invest in our crumbling infrastructure, to create jobs, and by investing in clean renewable fuels, that will not make more people sick from pollution, or contribute to the existing REAL threats from climate change, and protect the ill, the hungry and homeless, AND our food, air and water.

Polls show that Americans by a huge margin, are against Repiglican policies, every single one of their policies.

They spend, when we should not spend, and prevent spending when we must spend.

IDIOTS!!!

G.

</div></div>

Funny Gayle a new poll shows that 24% blame Obama and 36% blame Bush. That's a 10% jump. We are coming up on 3 years and Obama's ability to lead or lack there of is becoming apparent to the public.
You can blame the republicans all you want.
However Obama lack of ability to move anything forward rests on his shoulders. He was elected to be a leader after all.

Gayle in MD
09-21-2011, 08:28 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Besides the financial big bang explosion, this housing thing is the biggest part of what has hosed America. (And of course, they were related problems.)

Unless and until the housing market is straightened out, the economy will be an insolvable problem.

Unless and until people decide the federal government has to solve this, it won't get done in any even medium term time frame.

However, many people are convinced the federal government should do nothing in particular (well, maybe 5 or 6 functions, but no more than that).

That is, for ideological reasons, the country will not be allowed to do what is necessary.

Yes, it would be quite an intervention to have the government do something in the private real estate market comparable to what it did with commercial real estate in the S&L debacle. In that case, something north of 60% of all commercial real estate was taken into the RTC's receivership, and liquidated. Probably this is exactly what is needed now in the home market.

</div></div>

If only!

I think it's pretty obvious that as long as Repiglicans hold the majority in the House, nothing will improve.

They filibustered the recovery, and everything else they could get away with when Dems had majority, then won the majority and proceeded to obstruct absolutely everything they could.

Most Americans are aware that this is The Bush/blank check Repiglican majority Recession.

Years of unprecedented spending and borrowing, warring, adding a prescription drug program, and cutting taxes, annd ignoring the many, many warnings about the growing bubble, and the corruption on Wall St., is how we got into this mess. The VAST MAJORITY of Americans know this, annd have watched the Repiglicans turn right around, after spending this country into a ditch, and block spending to recover from the ditch they dug for this country.

They are PIGS, and must be removed from office. That is our only hope to strengthen the Middle Class, end this Bush recession, protect and fulfill the promise of publcic education by investing in our schools, and retraining our workers, invest in our crumbling infrastructure, to create jobs, and by investing in clean renewable fuels, that will not make more people sick from pollution, or contribute to the existing REAL threats from climate change, and protect the ill, the hungry and homeless, AND our food, air and water.

Polls show that Americans by a huge margin, are against Repiglican policies, every single one of their policies.

They spend, when we should not spend, and prevent spending when we must spend.

IDIOTS!!!

G.

</div></div>

Funny Gayle a new poll shows that 24% blame Obama and 36% blame Bush. That's a 10% jump.


<span style="color: #CC0000">SO WHAT? I can show you plenty of polls in which the majority, three to one, blame Bush still. The fact is, the housing bubble grew into major disaster, on BUSH'S AND Greenspan's watch, with no oversight by the SEC, and Repiglicans got rid on the one man who was trying to stop it, and the one woman who warned Greenspan of how stupid his policies were, of allowing corporations to regulate themselves.</span>
We are coming up on 3 years and Obama's ability to lead or lack there of is becoming apparent to the public.


<span style="color: #990000">Wrong, as usual. The public is overwhelmingly in approval of President Obama's jobs program, and Repiglicans get the lowest approval numbers, of any group, THE LOWEST EVER! </span>
You can blame the republicans all you want.
However Obama lack of ability to move anything forward rests on his shoulders. He was elected to be a leader after all. </div></div>


<span style="color: #990000">President Obama's achievements were unprecedented. I won't bother to list them, just for you, your not worth it, but it is clear, that the majority of historians, and the people in this country do not agree with you. Hence, repiglicans have the lowest approval ratings of any group, in history!

The crash happened on Bush's watch, and grew under a Repiglican majority. Every majjori economist, has stated that it grew to dangerous levels, and was a done deal, by the end of 06, actually even earlier than that, totally under complete Repiglican control of government, a Rw government, which ignored every single warning.

Every respected economist, has stated, that the bulk of the problem was corruption on Wall St. flamed by Greenspans's unjustifiably low interest rates, fraud on Wall St., ignored, warning after warning to Bush and Greenspan, predatory lending, and over-investing by wealthy investors. WE had a hidden, shadow corrupt Wall St., which ended up stealing from all of us, with Bush's help, TARP!

Repiglican policies put us where we are today, spending, borrowing, and warring, and failing to pay for any of it, big giveaway's to oil and big pharma, while cutting taxes, which lowered revenues, followed by incredible gall of Repiglican's Obstructionism, Repiglicans filibustered and blocked the fragile recovery, after the stimulus, even blocking their own former policies, in their quest to keep everything from recovering, for their own sicko political motives.

AMERICANS KNOW THIS!

HENCE, REPIGS HAVE THE LOWEST APPROVAL RATINGS OF ANY GROUP!

Corporations are not going to hire Americans, when they can be in colusion with fascist, communist nations, and scruff up on slave labor, people making 80 cents an hour.

They outsource our jobs, and then hide their profits offshore, regardless of what our tax policies, health policies, or regulatory policies, might be.

Corporations are destroying this country, on ever level, with the help of the Roberts activist, Fascist Supreme Court, including the destroying the power of our votes, and corrupting the entire voting process, with corporate money, even foreign money, buying up the Repiglicans they need, to continue to steal from the rest of us..

Corporate America, is corrupt, and without honor, or patriotism.

Hence, the VAST MAJORITY of Americans, are against the Ryan plan, against the tax cuts for millionaires, and billionaires, and against giving loopholes and tax cuts to pigs on Wall St., job outsourcers, and to polluters, the same corporate pigs, who don't pay their taxes.

YOU are out of touch with reality. We have ten years of evidence on our side, that tax cuts for the wealthy, do not produce JOBS!

Your views are anachronistic, ANd totally incorrect...

Nothing new there.

G. </span>

Qtec
09-21-2011, 09:49 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As we enter the "Fall of Hope"
Home building drops another 5%.

The only thing that appears to be shovel ready is burying the economy.
</div></div>

This was the REAL Ponzi con. 'Buy now, double your money in 3 years! "...they said.

Q

Gayle in MD
09-21-2011, 10:17 AM
Yes, and most of the defaults were by the well to do investors, buying up three and four properties, and then leaving the keys on the counter. I know dozens of them myself.

Of the early defaulters, 62% lost their homes due to unsustainable health care costs, after becomming ill, and then being dropped by the corrupt health Insurance Industry.

Many were Middle Class people, who watched as the Bush regime oversaw the largest drop in Middle Class wages, since The Great Depression, as Repiglicans redistributed wealth to the top three percent, who borrowed on their homes, while the costs of everything went up, under Bush, and Middle Calss wages, went down, and Bush gave away subsidies and tax cuts, to corporations who outsourced out jobs, and hid their profits, off shore...

There is no question, that had the Repiglicans not spent us into a debt ditch, for six years under Bush, and launched pre-emptive war, and given out no bid contracts, and unpaid for drug entitlements, actually, pharma giveaways, and borrowed us into this ditch, none of this would be happening.

that deficit the right is always whining about, was grown by the RIGHT. The REPIGLICANS, and the interest on all of Bush's warring, borrowing spending, and failing to pay for any of it.

then, they have the nerve to bash the guy who inherited the worst economy since the Great Depression. Bush's, "Ownership Society" LMAO!

G.

LWW
09-21-2011, 11:05 AM
So <span style='font-size: 11pt'>B-B-B-BOOOOSH</span> ruined the housing market again ... this will force dear leader to have to fix it again.

Soflasnapper
09-21-2011, 01:36 PM
Of course, that's not entirely true.

What Bush did to enable the housing collapse was quite bad, but there were thousands of others doing more.

What his administration DID do was push through a zero down payment plan policy. And intervened to prevent states from shutting down egregious predatory lending practices. Quite bad enough to put some of the blame on him, although far from majority blame, IMO.

And since it has never been fixed, there isn't any basis to say he rebroke it. It's still broken, and his part of it is fixed in history, even if it is not the majority part of the blame.