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Sev
09-27-2011, 07:34 AM
3 million individuals is a pretty big sample.

<span style='font-size: 23pt'>Can Herman Cain Deliver? Consumers Think So</span>

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2011/09/can-herman-cain-deliver-consumers-think-so.html
http://news.consumeraffairs.com/files/cain-herman.png
He likes to compare himself to Rodney Dangerfield, saying he doesn't get the respect he deserves from party leaders. But pizza magnate Herman Cain's Florida straw poll victory may force GOP leaders -- and the press -- to take him a bit more seriously.

It may be, of course, that Cain is polling well simply because he is still a relative unknown, though a seemingly likeable one, while sometime front-runners Mitt Romney, Rick Perry and Michele Bachmann's warts have been exposed in gory detail.

But whatever the reason, Cain has maintained a stunningly positive net sentiment with consumers for the last 12 months, according to a ConsumerAffairs.com analysis of nearly 3 million consumer comments on Facebook, Twitter and other blogs and social media.
Photo
Blue line shows net sentiment
http://news.consumeraffairs.com/files/cain-trend1.png
While Cain was a virtual unknown a year ago, he enjoyed an approval rating approaching 100% among the few consumers who were aware of him. A year later, he is at 80%, having never dipped below the 50% mark, despite a few well-publicized gaffes.

What do consumers like about him?

Photo
http://news.consumeraffairs.com/files/cain-sentiment.png
Photo

Like Lilly, consumers who commented on the media we sampled seem to find Cain to be a take-charge, no-nonsense businessman possessed of a magnetic personality and -- something rare these days -- a sense of humor that he often turns on himself.

PhotoCain's 9-9-9 tax plan also resonates well because of its simplicity and apparent fairness. He has proposed:

a 9% flat tax on business with a deduction for investments, purchases and dividends;
a 9% flat income tax with a deduction for charitable contributions; and
a 9% national sales tax, which would significantly expand the tax base by collecting taxes from consumers who currently pay little or no tax.

Like most of the candidates, Cain experienced a bump in August, when the Iowa straw poll got everyone's attention. Most candidates collected gobs of both positive and negative comments as potential voters began sizing them up. Cain, on the other hand, may have found Ronald Reagan's secret stash of Teflon. He collected very few strongly negative comments in August, or any other time for that matter.

Romney fading?


While the pizza business may be small change to Mitt Romney, the onetime private equity fund baron would no doubt like to exchange trendlines with Cain. Although Romney has managed to stay in positive territory for the last year, he started at a relatively modest 55% last September and today, coming off a straw poll win in Michigan, is at an anemic 29%.
Photo
http://news.consumeraffairs.com/files/romney-trend.png
Blue line shows net sentiment

Perry gets thrown


Then there's Gov. Rick Perry, one of the few candidates who actually has a job at the moment and who has proven himself to be a vote-getter, at least in Texas, where he is currently serving an unprecedented third term as governor.

But if politics is like a rodeo -- and who's to say it isn't? -- Perry has a hard time staying upright in the saddle of public sentiment. He started the year as an unknown in the "other" 49 states and has had a wild up-and-down ride ever since.

Photo
http://news.consumeraffairs.com/files/perry-trend.png
Blue line shows net sentiment

However, judging from the 720,000 comments we analyzed, Perry's lows are lower than his competitors and his highs -- well, they're lower too. He has never broken the 40% barrier and currently is back in the dust at 3%.

About the best he can hope for now is that he gets out of the ring before a mule kicks him.

Bumpy ride

Though hardly a cowgirl, Michele Bachmann has also had a bumpy ride, falling into negative territory twice in the past year, hitting what may have been her peak -- 54% -- in August, then plunging back nearly to zero in late September.

Photo
http://news.consumeraffairs.com/files/bachmann-trend.png
Above the fray

Then there's Ron Paul, the candidate nearly everyone likes but few vote for. He may be the Adlai Stevenson (Don't know the name? Look it up!) of this generation -- the guy who seems too smart, too pure, too idealistic to be President.

His trend line more closely resembles Herman Cain's than that of any other candidate, hovering in positive territory all year as his loyal fans stay loyal but most everyone else wanders off in another direction. If the obstetrician-turned-politician can't find a way to slap-start his campaign, it may die aborning.

Photo
http://news.consumeraffairs.com/files/paul-trend.png
Usual caveats

Unlike opinion sampling, which chooses supposedly representative individuals to serve as stand-ins for others of theoretically like mind, the sentiment analysis portrayed here looks at millions of comments by "real" people. It uses no extrapolation and does not assume that one Akron tire worker's opinion mirrors others.

There is no scientific basis for this kind of reporting. It simply does what journalism has always done -- collects, collates and passes along the comments, hopes, fears and malaise of those who pass by our listening post.

On the other hand, there is no coercion, reward or arm-twisting, as has been known to occur at straw polls.

Take it for what it's worth.

LWW
09-27-2011, 08:12 AM
Herman is the anti Obama

Soflasnapper
09-27-2011, 08:46 AM
Sentiment, and NET sentiment?

These are not standard measures in political science, so it's hard to know what to make of them. They may be slightly better measures than Rasmussen's 'net intensity' measures.

Sentiment will not got voters into primary booths to vote. That takes organization and money. And this is where low 'sentiment' Romney has his big edge, most likely fielding very robust orgs well across the country in the first primary states, and very much in the fundraising lead (probably at 2-1 to the entire rest of the field, I'd guess).

Unless Cain is going to be self-financed (which I doubt; he simply doesn't have that kind of money, to my knowledge), or is willing to run a shoestring kind of campaign ala Ron Paul, you will do better to look at the financial filings to see his chances more realistically.

Typically the outsider/newbie candidate wannabe relies on an early primary win somewhere to supercharge his/her fundraising early, to last into the later primaries. Presumably, should Cain be able to get one, maybe he can follow that pathway to get among the leaders for the nomination for a time. But straw polls wins are not enduring boosts to a campaign (cf: Bachmann).

Gayle in MD
09-27-2011, 09:29 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sentiment, and NET sentiment?

These are not standard measures in political science, so it's hard to know what to make of them. They may be slightly better measures than Rasmussen's 'net intensity' measures.

Sentiment will not got voters into primary booths to vote. That takes organization and money. And this is where low 'sentiment' Romney has his big edge, most likely fielding very robust orgs well across the country in the first primary states, and very much in the fundraising lead (probably at 2-1 to the entire rest of the field, I'd guess).

Unless Cain is going to be self-financed (which I doubt; he simply doesn't have that kind of money, to my knowledge), or is willing to run a shoestring kind of campaign ala Ron Paul, you will do better to look at the financial filings to see his chances more realistically.

Typically the outsider/newbie candidate wannabe relies on an early primary win somewhere to supercharge his/her fundraising early, to last into the later primaries. Presumably, should Cain be able to get one, maybe he can follow that pathway to get among the leaders for the nomination for a time. But straw polls wins are not enduring boosts to a campaign (cf: Bachmann).

</div></div>

LOL, Desperation can create rosey assumptions... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

llotter
09-27-2011, 09:52 AM
Cain seems to me the second coming of Ross Perot; identify the problem and fix it. All of our major problems have been exacerbated by just such simplistic thinking. The truth is, when it comes to social engineering, politicians can never identify the problem and fix it because they are too complex for human understanding. It is for this reason that freedom works so well...the social engineering is left to the smallest segment of society, the individual to work on his own problem.

Gayle in MD
09-27-2011, 10:05 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cain seems to me the second coming of <span style='font-size: 11pt'>another nutjob, </span> Ross Perot; <span style='font-size: 11pt'>lie about </span> the problem and <span style='font-size: 11pt'>pretend to </span> fix it. All of our major problems have been exacerbated by just such <span style='font-size: 11pt'>Repiglican</span> thinking. The truth is, when it comes to social engineering, <span style='font-size: 11pt'>Repiglicans</span> can never <span style='font-size: 11pt'>admit their policies created </span> the problem and fix it because they are too <span style='font-size: 11pt'>corrupt and without conscience</span> for human understanding. It is for this <span style='font-size: 11pt'>Repiglican legacy and push for fascism </span> that <span style='font-size: 11pt'>massive poverty </span> works so well...the social engineering is <span style='font-size: 11pt'> the policy transferal of 90% of the wealth</span> to the smallest segment of society, the <span style='font-size: 11pt'>Top one percent </span> to <span style='font-size: 11pt'>sit on, accumulate and enjoy </span> on his own <span style='font-size: 11pt'>individual massive wealth</span> . </div></div>

LMAO!
The social engineering was a result of Bush's tax cuts, loopholes, and subsidies, no bid contracts, deregulatory policies on Wall St., and resulted in the top 1% owning 90% of the wealth, and expecting the other 10% to share the crumbs, left over....


G.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In short, the Koch Bros increased their wealth by 30% in the last 2 years [ its a recession remember!!!]. At the same time they layed off 67,000 American workers.

</div></div>

Gayle in MD
09-27-2011, 11:19 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Re: Can Herman Cain Deliver? </div></div>



Pizza's only.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

llotter
09-27-2011, 11:47 AM
Here I was, making an objective, non-partisan comment and you have to trash it up with anti-republican, anti-Bush comments. I admit, it was funny but don't you think that you are repeating the lie too much? I know that Goebbels said that the propaganda lie must be told over and over until it is believed but you are missing some of other key principles.

The Koch Bros. didn't layoff 67000 people, it was more like 13000 or 14000. I don't know why The Moron didn't give them some of our money so they could pay them for a while longer.

cushioncrawler
09-27-2011, 03:33 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Photo
http://news.consumeraffairs.com/files/cain-sentiment.png
Photo
</div></div>Herman's pizza looks good. The slices are a weird size and color, but consumers commented on the take-charge slice, the no-nonsense slice, the magnetic slice and -- something rare these days -- a sense of humor slice. Cain's 999 flat-tax pizza deduction plan will allso hav an expanding base.
mac

Sev
09-27-2011, 05:51 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sentiment, and NET sentiment?

These are not standard measures in political science, so it's hard to know what to make of them. They may be slightly better measures than Rasmussen's 'net intensity' measures.

Sentiment will not got voters into primary booths to vote. That takes organization and money. And this is where low 'sentiment' Romney has his big edge, most likely fielding very robust orgs well across the country in the first primary states, and very much in the fundraising lead (probably at 2-1 to the entire rest of the field, I'd guess).

Unless Cain is going to be self-financed (which I doubt; he simply doesn't have that kind of money, to my knowledge), or is willing to run a shoestring kind of campaign ala Ron Paul, you will do better to look at the financial filings to see his chances more realistically.

Typically the outsider/newbie candidate wannabe relies on an early primary win somewhere to supercharge his/her fundraising early, to last into the later primaries. Presumably, should Cain be able to get one, maybe he can follow that pathway to get among the leaders for the nomination for a time. But straw polls wins are not enduring boosts to a campaign (cf: Bachmann).

</div></div>

Cain may be positioning for a VP position.

Soflasnapper
09-27-2011, 06:02 PM
He's got a good angle, if he wants the VP slot.

No black man has ever been elected VP who didn't later become president in his own right.

Of course, no black man who has been elected POTUS has ever been defeated for re-election, either.

A lot of funny things are true about the null set.

Backing up to lloter's point, though, it's been said that for every complicated problem, there is a simple, obvious, and easily stated solution, but those always turn out to be false.

I haven't heard a lot of such simplistic nostrums from Cain, but his 9/9/9 is such a nostrum. However, I take him as above average in intelligence, and think then that he'd be intelligent and flexible, more than many. Still, CEOs do NOT have to deal with the likes of a Congress, even with a disputatious board of directors. I question his real world abilities with our political system to work with.

Sev
09-27-2011, 07:16 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He's got a good angle, if he wants the VP slot.

No black man has ever been elected VP who didn't later become president in his own right.

Of course, no black man who has been elected POTUS has ever been defeated for re-election, either.

A lot of funny things are true about the null set.

Backing up to lloter's point, though, it's been said that for every complicated problem, there is a simple, obvious, and easily stated solution, but those always turn out to be false.

I haven't heard a lot of such simplistic nostrums from Cain, but his 9/9/9 is such a nostrum. However, I take him as above average in intelligence, and think then that he'd be intelligent and flexible, more than many. Still, CEOs do NOT have to deal with the likes of a Congress, even with a disputatious board of directors. I question his real world abilities with our political system to work with. </div></div>

Its interesting that people are so conditioned that they believe life long politicians and litigators are the only people qualified to run for office.
Neither of whom generally have any real world experience.

hondo
09-28-2011, 06:18 AM
Can Herman Cain Deliver? Consumers Think So.


But does he guarantee that his pizza will be hot?

[ Sorry, Gayle. Just saw your post]

LWW
09-28-2011, 06:41 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Re: Can Herman Cain Deliver? </div></div>



Pizza's only.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can Herman Cain Deliver? Consumers Think So.


But does he guarantee that his pizza will be hot?

[ Sorry, Gayle. Just saw your post] </div></div>

Why are you two spouting your racist haterade across the forum?

Why do you both fear a genuine brother, who has actually achieved something sans affirmative action?

Why do you both fear a black man who isn't an Uncle Tom?

The questions are rhetorical in nature and the answers self evident.

Sev
09-28-2011, 06:50 AM
Its simple Larry.

Our guy is blacker than their guy.
It pisses them off.

Remember Herman Cain is certified black enough. Possibly with real slave blood.
There is no question about his pedigree.

He would also be Americas first full blooded black president. Obama would forever be relegated to half breed status.

The left cant have that.

Gayle in MD
09-28-2011, 07:09 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here I was, making an objective, non-partisan comment and you have to trash it up with anti-republican, anti-Bush comments. I admit, it was funny but don't you think that you are repeating the lie too much? I know that Goebbels said that the propaganda lie must be told over and over until it is believed but you are missing some of other key principles.

The Koch Bros. didn't layoff 67000 people, it was more like 13000 or 14000. I don't know why The Moron didn't give them some of our money so they could pay them for a while longer. </div></div>


LMAO!

Your comment was objective and non partisan??? LMAO!

Wake up!

Additionally, what I wrote about the redistribution of wealth, under the Bush REgime, is a FACT, FYI!

Just as what I wrote about Koch Brothers, is a FACT!

Drop the offensive accustaions about lies, and look it up!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In short, the Koch Bros increased their wealth by 30% in the last 2 years [ its a recession remember!!!]. At the same time they layed off 67,000 American workers.

</div></div>

Oh, and BTW, every time you call women who exercise their Constitutional rights, murderers, it's a lie, according to the Supreme Court, AND according to Science.

G.

LWW
09-28-2011, 07:43 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its simple Larry.

Our guy is blacker than their guy.
It pisses them off.

Remember Herman Cain is certified black enough. Possibly with real slave blood.
There is no question about his pedigree.

He would also be Americas first full blooded black president. Obama would forever be relegated to half breed status.

The left cant have that. </div></div>

It can't be that simple can it?

Of course, I myself do possess more slave blood in my veins than dear leader ... and with oppresses native American blood.

I am considering restarting my campaign, but if Mr Cain continues to lead in the polls I will likely remain on the sidelines ... unless I decide to challenge Obama in the primaries, assuming Hillary doesn't.

hondo
09-28-2011, 08:03 AM
Oops! Sorry! I could have sworn he was a pizza magnate.
Was I wrong?
Also, didn't realize that pizza delivery only referred to black men. I have actually had white girls deliver my pizza, believe it or not.
Again, I apologize, but I can't help but wonder why you thinking only black men deliver pizzas makes you less of a racist.

hondo
09-28-2011, 08:07 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its simple Larry.

Our guy is blacker than their guy.
It pisses them off.

Remember Herman Cain is certified black enough. Possibly with real slave blood.
There is no question about his pedigree.

He would also be Americas first full blooded black president. Obama would forever be relegated to half breed status.

The left cant have that. </div></div>

WOW! I make a play on words about a pizza magnate delivering pizzas after you ask if he can deliver.
That makes me a racist in dubbie's eyes and a hater of Cain in your eyes.
You guys are so full of shit that I don't even know why I bother to respond anymore.

hondo
09-28-2011, 08:09 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its simple Larry.

Our guy is blacker than their guy.
It pisses them off.

Remember Herman Cain is certified black enough. Possibly with real slave blood.
There is no question about his pedigree.

He would also be Americas first full blooded black president. Obama would forever be relegated to half breed status.

The left cant have that. </div></div>

It can't be that simple can it?

Of course, I myself do possess more slave blood in my veins than dear leader ... and with oppresses native American blood.

I am considering restarting my campaign, but if Mr Cain continues to lead in the polls I will likely remain on the sidelines ... unless I decide to challenge Obama in the primaries, assuming Hillary doesn't.
</div></div>

Quote dubbie: I'm blacker than Obama is! I';m blacker than Obama is!

ROTHFLMFAO! You're the biggest racist on these boards, brutha.

LWW
09-28-2011, 08:17 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Quote dubbie: I'm blacker than Obama is! I';m blacker than Obama is!</div></div>

Can you quote where I actually said that?

What's that?

You made it up?

But ... I already knew that.

Gayle in MD
09-28-2011, 08:27 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its simple Larry.

Our guy is blacker than their guy.
It pisses them off.

Remember Herman Cain is certified black enough. Possibly with real slave blood.
There is no question about his pedigree.

He would also be Americas first full blooded black president. Obama would forever be relegated to half breed status.

The left cant have that. </div></div>

Respectfully, Sev, I don't think "My side" really cares much about the color of a person's skin.

I think we on the left, have the most concern about the fact that Republican policies always lead to more wealth for the wealthy, and an economic slide, for everyone else, which was the legacy of both the Bush and Reagan Administrations.

They both promised to cut taxes and government spending, but neither of them cut spending, in fact, they both grew the government, AND spending.

Cutting taxes while increasing spending, always leads to higher deficits, and that is actually what Ronald Reagan and George Bush did, which in both cases, led to far higher deficits, after greater government spending, which even though Reagan acquiesced, and did raise taxes a number of times, it wasn't enough to avoid the vast growth in the deficit by a very huge number.

Both left the country in recession, both grew the void between the rich, and everyone else.

Reagan was able to punch up the Stock Market, and increase jobs, initially, but the deficit legacy for his policies, and Bush's, were not worth it, unless you were among the wealthy at the outset, that is.

Neither of them addressed the deficits they grew. Both insisted that there was nothing wrong with the economy, toward the end of their administrations, when in fact, there was plenty wrong, due to their policies, and they both left recessions behind them, and a weaker Middle Class, greater poverty, and greater suffering for most AMericans.

Defense spending inceased by a huge margin, under each of them, yet our threats did not subside through their policies.

G.

LWW
09-28-2011, 08:53 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Quote dubbie: I'm blacker than Obama is! I';m blacker than Obama is!</div></div>

Since you love to say stupid things:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a247/lww/ONLINE%20ARGUMENTS/LWW-OBAMA.png

On the left is Obama's official White House photo. On the right is the photo you linked to of myself. To give you the benefit of a doubt ... and God almighty knows that you need every edge possible ... my photo had a flash blasted in my face.

I report, you decide.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/imagecache/admin_official_lowres/administration-official/ao_image/President_Official_Portrait_HiRes.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a247/lww/Dayton/PsychWard.jpg

hondo
09-28-2011, 09:00 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Quote dubbie: I'm blacker than Obama is! I';m blacker than Obama is!</div></div>

Can you quote where I actually said that?

What's that?

You made it up?

But ... I already knew that. </div></div>

"Of course, I myself do possess more slave blood in my veins than dear leader"
LOL! That was easy. Hoist by thine owne petar!

hondo
09-28-2011, 09:01 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its simple Larry.

Our guy is blacker than their guy.
It pisses them off.

Remember Herman Cain is certified black enough. Possibly with real slave blood.
There is no question about his pedigree.

He would also be Americas first full blooded black president. Obama would forever be relegated to half breed status.

The left cant have that. </div></div>

Respectfully, Sev, I don't think "My side" really cares much about the color of a person's skin.

I think we on the left, have the most concern about the fact that Republican policies always lead to more wealth for the wealthy, and an economic slide, for everyone else, which was the legacy of both the Bush and Reagan Administrations.

They both promised to cut taxes and government spending, but neither of them cut spending, in fact, they both grew the government, AND spending.

Cutting taxes while increasing spending, always leads to higher deficits, and that is actually what Ronald Reagan and George Bush did, which in both cases, led to far higher deficits, after greater government spending, which even though Reagan acquiesced, and did raise taxes a number of times, it wasn't enough to avoid the vast growth in the deficit by a very huge number.

Both left the country in recession, both grew the void between the rich, and everyone else.

Reagan was able to punch up the Stock Market, and increase jobs, initially, but the deficit legacy for his policies, and Bush's, were not worth it, unless you were among the wealthy at the outset, that is.

Neither of them addressed the deficits they grew. Both insisted that there was nothing wrong with the economy, toward the end of their administrations, when in fact, there was plenty wrong, due to their policies, and they both left recessions behind them, and a weaker Middle Class, greater poverty, and greater suffering for most AMericans.

Defense spending inceased by a huge margin, under each of them, yet our threats did not subside through their policies.

G. </div></div>

Excellent post!

hondo
09-28-2011, 09:03 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Quote dubbie: I'm blacker than Obama is! I';m blacker than Obama is!</div></div>

Since you love to say stupid things:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a247/lww/ONLINE%20ARGUMENTS/LWW-OBAMA.png

On the left is Obama's official White House photo. On the right is the photo you linked to of myself. To give you the benefit of a doubt ... and God almighty knows that you need every edge possible ... my photo had a flash blasted in my face.

I report, you decide.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/imagecache/admin_official_lowres/administration-official/ao_image/President_Official_Portrait_HiRes.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a247/lww/Dayton/PsychWard.jpg
</div></div>


Quote dubbie:

"Of course, I myself do possess more slave blood in my veins than dear leader"

Uh, you look whiter than me or Obama.

LWW
09-28-2011, 09:40 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Quote dubbie:

"Of course, I myself do possess more slave blood in my veins than dear leader"</div></div>

That's not what you claimed that I said.

How can you expect me to believe that you were once "ENGLISH TEACHER OF THE YEAR" when you can't comprehend the English language ... much less learn how to use the quote function?

hondo
09-28-2011, 10:13 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Quote dubbie:

"Of course, I myself do possess more slave blood in my veins than dear leader"</div></div>

That's not what you claimed that I said.

How can you expect me to believe that you were once "ENGLISH TEACHER OF THE YEAR" when you can't comprehend the English language ... much less learn how to use the quote function? </div></div>

Your crap and spins get worse and worse.
Poor mis-understood dubbie.
Since you can't be honest I think I'll take a break from responding to your horseshit.
Please carry on.
I see you're bombarding AZ with your posts again.
Stay away from Godzilla.

LWW
09-28-2011, 11:04 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since you can't be honest I think I'll take a break from responding to your horseshit.</div></div>

10 ...

9 ...

8 ...

Sev
09-28-2011, 06:46 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its simple Larry.

Our guy is blacker than their guy.
It pisses them off.

Remember Herman Cain is certified black enough. Possibly with real slave blood.
There is no question about his pedigree.

He would also be Americas first full blooded black president. Obama would forever be relegated to half breed status.

The left cant have that. </div></div>

Respectfully, Sev, I don't think "My side" really cares much about the color of a person's skin.



G. </div></div>

I cant quite agree with that as the left was and is still is beating the drum that their opposition are a bunch of racists.

The Tea party is the latest target. Prior to that the argument was being made that anybody that disagreed with Obama was a racist and not actually in disagreement with the mans policies.

Farrakhan being at the top of the list.

hondo
09-29-2011, 07:07 AM
You gotta love the Right. When they are accused of being sexist they toss Sarah Palin out there.
Now they toss Cain out and you guys crow how much blacker than Obama he is.
Heck, little dubbie even said he was blacker than Obama but then he said he didn't say that and when I posted it, he still said I didn't say it. LOL! You guys kill me!

P.S. Now dubbie will come on here saying that I said I wasn't going to post on here for a while but I never said that and he
can't find a post that says I did, but he'll try to spin it.
I simply said I wasn't going to respond to his crap for a while and I'm not.

Sev
09-29-2011, 07:20 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You gotta love the Right. When they are accused of being sexist they toss Sarah Palin out there.
Now they toss Cain out and you guys crow how much blacker than Obama he is.

</div></div>

Its called turn around Hondo.
I was hoping you would catch the irony of the post.
By the way it was not directed specifically at you. Sorry for the confusion.

Here is some more.

Herman Cain is certified black enough with real slave blood in his veins.

As opposed to Obama, whom the left questioned being black enough. And Al Sharpton who stated Obama was not there for the struggle.

Sev
09-29-2011, 07:24 AM
By the way.
Herman Cain is now polling #3 at 17% nationally.
Its estimated that 50% of the nation is not yet aware of him.

That's pretty good polling considering the lack of recognition.

Soflasnapper
09-29-2011, 08:39 AM
That's indeed a good polling considering the lack of familiarity with him.

However, here's a question as well:

How many of those who currently support him are fully aware of his prior presidency of the St. Louis Regional Federal Reserve, and what that really means? (i.e., he's a stinking banker type)?

Qtec
09-29-2011, 08:52 AM
Good question. Some of these candidates have a history not many know about. history (http://billiardsdigest.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=367319#Post367319)

Q

Sev
09-29-2011, 11:09 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's indeed a good polling considering the lack of familiarity with him.

However, here's a question as well:

How many of those who currently support him are fully aware of his prior presidency of the St. Louis Regional Federal Reserve, and what that really means? (i.e., he's a stinking banker type)? </div></div>

Not sure.
However I can live with that since he wants to get rid of the EPA, Dept of Ed and IRS.
He also wants to secure the border and is not concerned with what Mexico thinks.

Gayle in MD
09-29-2011, 12:08 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its simple Larry.

Our guy is blacker than their guy.
It pisses them off.

Remember Herman Cain is certified black enough. Possibly with real slave blood.
There is no question about his pedigree.

He would also be Americas first full blooded black president. Obama would forever be relegated to half breed status.

The left cant have that. </div></div>

<span style="color: #990000"> </span>

Respectfully, Sev, I don't think "My side" really cares much about the color of a person's skin.



G. </div></div>

I cant quite agree with that as the left was and is still is beating the drum that their opposition are a bunch of racists.

<span style="color: #CC0000"> What does that have to do with how Dems judge Candidates? WE wouldn't want Cain, because he's a Republican, not because he's black, obviously, since we voted for President Obama. </span>

The Tea party is the latest target. Prior to that the argument was being made that anybody that disagreed with Obama was a racist and not actually in disagreement with the mans policies.

<span style="color: #CC0000">I think the Tea Paraty has been accused of racism, due to the signage they have displayed, and unprecedented accusations against the president during the campaign, annd since.

For example, accusing him of not being a citizen, and ridiculous accusations Like Palin made, that he was paling round with terrorists?

People from the right, stannding outside of campaign stops, yelling out "Terrorist! Obama is a Terrorist!" and additionally, many former pliticians, from both sides of the isle have stated that there has been a decline in the traditional respect shown for the office of the Presidency, coming from the right, due to racism.

I'd say, there is quite a lot of proof out there, that there have been consistant racial slurs, in e-mails, on signs, in actualy unprecedented disrespectful behavior, like a Republican yelling out "YOU LIE!" during the President's SOTU Address, and in other racist rhetoric, as well, in the media, ad from the right.

IOW, I don't think whatever charges of racism we have heard, resulted from Dems, playing a race card, I'd say, instead that they came from actual exihibitions of racist behavior.

G.</span>

Farrakhan being at the top of the list. </div></div>

Sev
09-29-2011, 02:00 PM
Turns out the president did lie.
However that has nothing to do with racism.

Come on now we both know that people on the left such as the women on The View, Garapolo(sp?) and others were accusing people that dont like Obama as it simply being a case of them being racists.
I have seen interviews on the MSM with people saying the exact same thing.
We have also seen all sorts of racism to Clarance Thomas. Thats a matter of record.

Its not that people are actually racist. Its a campaign to paint people as being racist.

You can add Sharpton, Jessie Jackson and West to the list as well.

Now as far as there being unsavory activity on an individual basis in the Tea Party I am sure there has been.
But then on the left I recall posting an article out of CA about a lefty that bit off a 70 year old mans finger at a Tea Party rally simply because he thought man was a racist.

For anybody to declare that nobody on their side engages in questionable activity is being disingenuous at the very least.

If Herman Cain actually gets traction I fully expect him to be lambasted as being an Uncle Tom by his opposition.

Gayle in MD
09-29-2011, 03:42 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Turns out the president did lie.
However that has nothing to do with racism.

Come on now we both know that people on the left such as the women on The View, Garapolo(sp?) and others were accusing people that dont like Obama as it simply being a case of them being racists.
I have seen interviews on the MSM with people saying the exact same thing.
We have also seen all sorts of racism to Clarance Thomas. Thats a matter of record.

Its not that people are actually racist. Its a campaign to paint people as being racist.

You can add Sharpton, Jessie Jackson and West to the list as well.

Now as far as there being unsavory activity on an individual basis in the Tea Party I am sure there has been.
But then on the left I recall posting an article out of CA about a lefty that bit off a 70 year old mans finger at a Tea Party rally simply because he thought man was a racist.

For anybody to declare that nobody on their side engages in questionable activity is being disingenuous at the very least.

If Herman Cain actually gets traction I fully expect him to be lambasted as being an Uncle Tom by his opposition. </div></div>

I don't think I stated anywhere in my post, that there isn't racism anywhere, and everywhere.

What I did say, was that the accusations of racism, that I heard on the news, and in the papers, came after there had been racism on display.

I've personally found racism among both Republican, and Democratic sides of the isle, in my personal life.

I simply don't think that to say that there were no incidents on the right, which were clearly racist, would be an honest assessment.

Also, what are you saying that the President lied about. Surely, after all of the proof we've seen, you don't still subscribe to the belief that President Obama, wasn't born in Hawaii? Even the most far right radicals, have gotten off that one.

G.

hondo
09-29-2011, 04:05 PM
It is nice to see you and Sev being able to discuss the issues.
Brought a little tear to my eye.
Plus, lotter has some good posts at times.
Eg at least supports the regulars when attacked.
And jennings is apparently gone.
dubbie's alter ego johnny d. is gone for a while.
There's some hope for this forum after all.
If only dubbie would leave and yugo would stay away
or stop the hate.
Oh, well, baby steps, Gayle, baby steps. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Sev
09-29-2011, 04:48 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Turns out the president did lie.
However that has nothing to do with racism.

Come on now we both know that people on the left such as the women on The View, Garapolo(sp?) and others were accusing people that dont like Obama as it simply being a case of them being racists.
I have seen interviews on the MSM with people saying the exact same thing.
We have also seen all sorts of racism to Clarance Thomas. Thats a matter of record.

Its not that people are actually racist. Its a campaign to paint people as being racist.

You can add Sharpton, Jessie Jackson and West to the list as well.

Now as far as there being unsavory activity on an individual basis in the Tea Party I am sure there has been.
But then on the left I recall posting an article out of CA about a lefty that bit off a 70 year old mans finger at a Tea Party rally simply because he thought man was a racist.

For anybody to declare that nobody on their side engages in questionable activity is being disingenuous at the very least.

If Herman Cain actually gets traction I fully expect him to be lambasted as being an Uncle Tom by his opposition. </div></div>

I don't think I stated anywhere in my post, that there isn't racism anywhere, and everywhere.

What I did say, was that the accusations of racism, that I heard on the news, and in the papers, came after there had been racism on display.

I've personally found racism among both Republican, and Democratic sides of the isle, in my personal life.

I simply don't think that to say that there were no incidents on the right, which were clearly racist, would be an honest assessment.

Also, what are you saying that the President lied about. Surely, after all of the proof we've seen, you don't still subscribe to the belief that President Obama, wasn't born in Hawaii? Even the most far right radicals, have gotten off that one.

G.

</div></div>

We agree for the most part.
However race baiting exists prior to any evidence of racism occurring first.

Sorry about the confusion. The "you lied" pertained to abortion not being by the healthcare bill. There is a small portion that now is.

Sev
09-29-2011, 04:51 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is nice to see you and Sev being able to discuss the issues.
Brought a little tear to my eye.
Plus, lotter has some good posts at times.
Eg at least supports the regulars when attacked.
And jennings is apparently gone.
dubbie's alter ego johnny d. is gone for a while.
There's some hope for this forum after all.
If only dubbie would leave and yugo would stay away
or stop the hate.
Oh, well, baby steps, Gayle, baby steps. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div>

Funny guy. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Sev
09-29-2011, 06:28 PM
Ok.
Jehmu Green just called Herman Cain a bigot on O'Reilly tonight.

ugotda7
09-29-2011, 06:43 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is nice to see you and Sev being able to discuss the issues.
Brought a little tear to my eye.
Plus, lotter has some good posts at times.
Eg at least supports the regulars when attacked.
And jennings is apparently gone.
dubbie's alter ego johnny d. is gone for a while.
There's some hope for this forum after all.
If only dubbie would leave and yugo would stay away
or stop the hate.
Oh, well, baby steps, Gayle, baby steps. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div>

Translated - if only those meanies would leave us to our inbred selves. How West Virginian of you.

ugotda7
09-29-2011, 06:44 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok.
Jehmu Green just called Herman Cain a bigot on O'Reilly tonight. </div></div>

She's an idiot....and the more she talked the more she proved Cain's point.

Gayle in MD
09-29-2011, 06:55 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Turns out the president did lie.
However that has nothing to do with racism.

Come on now we both know that people on the left such as the women on The View, Garapolo(sp?) and others were accusing people that dont like Obama as it simply being a case of them being racists.
I have seen interviews on the MSM with people saying the exact same thing.
We have also seen all sorts of racism to Clarance Thomas. Thats a matter of record.

Its not that people are actually racist. Its a campaign to paint people as being racist.

You can add Sharpton, Jessie Jackson and West to the list as well.

Now as far as there being unsavory activity on an individual basis in the Tea Party I am sure there has been.
But then on the left I recall posting an article out of CA about a lefty that bit off a 70 year old mans finger at a Tea Party rally simply because he thought man was a racist.

For anybody to declare that nobody on their side engages in questionable activity is being disingenuous at the very least.

If Herman Cain actually gets traction I fully expect him to be lambasted as being an Uncle Tom by his opposition. </div></div>

I don't think I stated anywhere in my post, that there isn't racism anywhere, and everywhere.

What I did say, was that the accusations of racism, that I heard on the news, and in the papers, came after there had been racism on display.

I've personally found racism among both Republican, and Democratic sides of the isle, in my personal life.

I simply don't think that to say that there were no incidents on the right, which were clearly racist, would be an honest assessment.

Also, what are you saying that the President lied about. Surely, after all of the proof we've seen, you don't still subscribe to the belief that President Obama, wasn't born in Hawaii? Even the most far right radicals, have gotten off that one.

G.

</div></div>

We agree for the most part.
However race baiting exists prior to any evidence of racism occurring first.

Sorry about the confusion. The "you lied" pertained to abortion not being by the healthcare bill. There is a small portion that now is. </div></div>

As I recall it, A repubican, think his name might have been Joe Wilson, he yelled out "You lie!" during the President's address, the State Of the Union Address?

That was unprecedented. And the lie was supposed to be that the president had stated that no federal money would be used for abortions, and he was correct.

The Republican accuser, was wrong.

I don't think there was race baiting. We'll have to agree to disagree on that, I suppose.

The Racist rubbish started immediately after the president announced his candidacy. No one had to bait for it, it was there on it's own, as I recall.

G.

Sev
09-29-2011, 06:55 PM
Oh I do agree.
I have also noticed that every time Jehmu is on O'Reilly her demeanor is completely different than when on other shows.

ugotda7
09-29-2011, 07:02 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Turns out the president did lie.
However that has nothing to do with racism.

Come on now we both know that people on the left such as the women on The View, Garapolo(sp?) and others were accusing people that dont like Obama as it simply being a case of them being racists.
I have seen interviews on the MSM with people saying the exact same thing.
We have also seen all sorts of racism to Clarance Thomas. Thats a matter of record.

Its not that people are actually racist. Its a campaign to paint people as being racist.

You can add Sharpton, Jessie Jackson and West to the list as well.

Now as far as there being unsavory activity on an individual basis in the Tea Party I am sure there has been.
But then on the left I recall posting an article out of CA about a lefty that bit off a 70 year old mans finger at a Tea Party rally simply because he thought man was a racist.

For anybody to declare that nobody on their side engages in questionable activity is being disingenuous at the very least.

If Herman Cain actually gets traction I fully expect him to be lambasted as being an Uncle Tom by his opposition. </div></div>

I don't think I stated anywhere in my post, that there isn't racism anywhere, and everywhere.

What I did say, was that the accusations of racism, that I heard on the news, and in the papers, came after there had been racism on display.

I've personally found racism among both Republican, and Democratic sides of the isle, in my personal life.

I simply don't think that to say that there were no incidents on the right, which were clearly racist, would be an honest assessment.

Also, what are you saying that the President lied about. Surely, after all of the proof we've seen, you don't still subscribe to the belief that President Obama, wasn't born in Hawaii? Even the most far right radicals, have gotten off that one.

G.

</div></div>

We agree for the most part.
However race baiting exists prior to any evidence of racism occurring first.

Sorry about the confusion. The "you lied" pertained to abortion not being by the healthcare bill. There is a small portion that now is. </div></div>

As I recall it, A repubican, think his name might have been Joe Wilson, he yelled out "You lie!" during the President's address, the State Of the Union Address?

That was unprecedented. And the lie was supposed to be that the president had stated that no federal money would be used for abortions, and he was correct.

The Republican accuser, was wrong.

I don't think there was race baiting. We'll have to agree to disagree on that, I suppose.

The Racist rubbish started immediately after the president announced his candidacy. No one had to bait for it, it was there on it's own, as I recall.

G. </div></div>

As usual you are wrong and just making shit up - but that's what you do best so be a good girl and keep at it.

Sev
09-29-2011, 07:46 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Turns out the president did lie.
However that has nothing to do with racism.

Come on now we both know that people on the left such as the women on The View, Garapolo(sp?) and others were accusing people that dont like Obama as it simply being a case of them being racists.
I have seen interviews on the MSM with people saying the exact same thing.
We have also seen all sorts of racism to Clarance Thomas. Thats a matter of record.

Its not that people are actually racist. Its a campaign to paint people as being racist.

You can add Sharpton, Jessie Jackson and West to the list as well.

Now as far as there being unsavory activity on an individual basis in the Tea Party I am sure there has been.
But then on the left I recall posting an article out of CA about a lefty that bit off a 70 year old mans finger at a Tea Party rally simply because he thought man was a racist.

For anybody to declare that nobody on their side engages in questionable activity is being disingenuous at the very least.

If Herman Cain actually gets traction I fully expect him to be lambasted as being an Uncle Tom by his opposition. </div></div>

I don't think I stated anywhere in my post, that there isn't racism anywhere, and everywhere.

What I did say, was that the accusations of racism, that I heard on the news, and in the papers, came after there had been racism on display.

I've personally found racism among both Republican, and Democratic sides of the isle, in my personal life.

I simply don't think that to say that there were no incidents on the right, which were clearly racist, would be an honest assessment.

Also, what are you saying that the President lied about. Surely, after all of the proof we've seen, you don't still subscribe to the belief that President Obama, wasn't born in Hawaii? Even the most far right radicals, have gotten off that one.

G.

</div></div>

We agree for the most part.
However race baiting exists prior to any evidence of racism occurring first.

Sorry about the confusion. The "you lied" pertained to abortion not being by the healthcare bill. There is a small portion that now is. </div></div>

As I recall it, A repubican, think his name might have been Joe Wilson, he yelled out "You lie!" during the President's address, the State Of the Union Address?

That was unprecedented. And the lie was supposed to be that the president had stated that no federal money would be used for abortions, and he was correct.

The Republican accuser, was wrong.

I don't think there was race baiting. We'll have to agree to disagree on that, I suppose.

The Racist rubbish started immediately after the president announced his candidacy. No one had to bait for it, it was there on it's own, as I recall.

G. </div></div>

Actually 23 million dollars will be used for the purposes of abortion. As I said it was a small portion and it recently came to light last month I believe.

As far as Wilsons outburst. It was out of line. I believe he later apologized for it.

Sev
09-29-2011, 08:09 PM
Preview
Janeane Garafalo says that racist whites are supporting Cain to hide their racism.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...rman_cain.html

Janeane Garofalo: "Herman Cain is probably well liked by some of the Republicans because it hides the racist elements of the Republican party. Conservative movement and tea party movement, one in the same.

"People like Karl Rove liked to keep the racism very covert. And so Herman Cain provides this great opportunity say you can say 'Look, this is not a racist, anti-immigrant, anti-female, anti-gay movement. Look we have a black man.'"

hondo
09-29-2011, 08:22 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is nice to see you and Sev being able to discuss the issues.
Brought a little tear to my eye.
Plus, lotter has some good posts at times.
Eg at least supports the regulars when attacked.
And jennings is apparently gone.
dubbie's alter ego johnny d. is gone for a while.
There's some hope for this forum after all.
If only dubbie would leave and yugo would stay away
or stop the hate.
Oh, well, baby steps, Gayle, baby steps. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div>

Funny guy. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif </div></div>

yugo just called me an inbred, apparently because I'm from
West Virginia. It's white trash haters like him that keep this
forum in pits.
He adds nothing to this forum. Pops up now and then spewing vile hate at Gayle and then crawls back to his hole.
I've tried to see some good in that ole boy but time and again he proves himself to be a hot-headed lowlife.
I'll defend him no more.
I told my aunt mommy and uncle daddy that he called my sister wife and I inbreds, but, fortunately , they didn't know what that meant.
Good thing too. He pisses uncle daddy off and uncle daddy'll have that fat G.I.Joe squeelin like a greased pig, and aunt mommy'll stick her muff in his face and smother that big mouth redneck cracker. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
Y'all have a good night, hear?

Gayle in MD
09-29-2011, 09:22 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Turns out the president did lie.
However that has nothing to do with racism.

Come on now we both know that people on the left such as the women on The View, Garapolo(sp?) and others were accusing people that dont like Obama as it simply being a case of them being racists.
I have seen interviews on the MSM with people saying the exact same thing.
We have also seen all sorts of racism to Clarance Thomas. Thats a matter of record.

Its not that people are actually racist. Its a campaign to paint people as being racist.

You can add Sharpton, Jessie Jackson and West to the list as well.

Now as far as there being unsavory activity on an individual basis in the Tea Party I am sure there has been.
But then on the left I recall posting an article out of CA about a lefty that bit off a 70 year old mans finger at a Tea Party rally simply because he thought man was a racist.

For anybody to declare that nobody on their side engages in questionable activity is being disingenuous at the very least.

If Herman Cain actually gets traction I fully expect him to be lambasted as being an Uncle Tom by his opposition. </div></div>

I don't think I stated anywhere in my post, that there isn't racism anywhere, and everywhere.

What I did say, was that the accusations of racism, that I heard on the news, and in the papers, came after there had been racism on display.

I've personally found racism among both Republican, and Democratic sides of the isle, in my personal life.

I simply don't think that to say that there were no incidents on the right, which were clearly racist, would be an honest assessment.

Also, what are you saying that the President lied about. Surely, after all of the proof we've seen, you don't still subscribe to the belief that President Obama, wasn't born in Hawaii? Even the most far right radicals, have gotten off that one.

G.

</div></div>

We agree for the most part.
However race baiting exists prior to any evidence of racism occurring first.

Sorry about the confusion. The "you lied" pertained to abortion not being by the healthcare bill. There is a small portion that now is. </div></div>

As I recall it, A repubican, think his name might have been Joe Wilson, he yelled out "You lie!" during the President's address, the State Of the Union Address?

That was unprecedented. And the lie was supposed to be that the president had stated that no federal money would be used for abortions, and he was correct.

The Republican accuser, was wrong.

I don't think there was race baiting. We'll have to agree to disagree on that, I suppose.

The Racist rubbish started immediately after the president announced his candidacy. No one had to bait for it, it was there on it's own, as I recall.

G. </div></div>

Actually 23 million dollars will be used for the purposes of abortion. As I said it was a small portion and it recently came to light last month I believe.

As far as Wilsons outburst. It was out of line. I believe he later apologized for it.
</div></div>

I have seen no confirmed report that any Federal Money will be used for abortion, through the affordable health Care Act.

Additionally, I have seen no confirmed report that Wilson ever apologized for his rude outburst.

I will check into both of these, though...

G.

ugotda7
09-29-2011, 09:36 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is nice to see you and Sev being able to discuss the issues.
Brought a little tear to my eye.
Plus, lotter has some good posts at times.
Eg at least supports the regulars when attacked.
And jennings is apparently gone.
dubbie's alter ego johnny d. is gone for a while.
There's some hope for this forum after all.
If only dubbie would leave and yugo would stay away
or stop the hate.
Oh, well, baby steps, Gayle, baby steps. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div>

Funny guy. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif </div></div>

yugo just called me an inbred, apparently because I'm from
West Virginia. It's white trash haters like him that keep this
forum in pits.
He adds nothing to this forum. Pops up now and then spewing vile hate at Gayle and then crawls back to his hole.
I've tried to see some good in that ole boy but time and again he proves himself to be a hot-headed lowlife.
I'll defend him no more.
I told my aunt mommy and uncle daddy that he called my sister wife and I inbreds, but, fortunately , they didn't know what that meant.
Good thing too. He pisses uncle daddy off and uncle daddy'll have that fat G.I.Joe squeelin like a greased pig, and aunt mommy'll stick her muff in his face and smother that big mouth redneck cracker. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
Y'all have a good night, hear? </div></div>

I explained a while back if you mention me I'll come calling.

Now quit crying like a little Maryland schoolgirl, pull up your overalls, hitch up your boots and drink some good ole WV moonshine - it might help you make sense of things.

By the way - did I even actually call you inbred? Learn to read why don't you - that's a big part of your problem.

Gayle in MD
09-30-2011, 05:37 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Turns out the president did lie.
However that has nothing to do with racism.

Come on now we both know that people on the left such as the women on The View, Garapolo(sp?) and others were accusing people that dont like Obama as it simply being a case of them being racists.
I have seen interviews on the MSM with people saying the exact same thing.
We have also seen all sorts of racism to Clarance Thomas. Thats a matter of record.

Its not that people are actually racist. Its a campaign to paint people as being racist.

You can add Sharpton, Jessie Jackson and West to the list as well.

Now as far as there being unsavory activity on an individual basis in the Tea Party I am sure there has been.
But then on the left I recall posting an article out of CA about a lefty that bit off a 70 year old mans finger at a Tea Party rally simply because he thought man was a racist.

For anybody to declare that nobody on their side engages in questionable activity is being disingenuous at the very least.

If Herman Cain actually gets traction I fully expect him to be lambasted as being an Uncle Tom by his opposition. </div></div>

I don't think I stated anywhere in my post, that there isn't racism anywhere, and everywhere.

What I did say, was that the accusations of racism, that I heard on the news, and in the papers, came after there had been racism on display.

I've personally found racism among both Republican, and Democratic sides of the isle, in my personal life.

I simply don't think that to say that there were no incidents on the right, which were clearly racist, would be an honest assessment.

Also, what are you saying that the President lied about. Surely, after all of the proof we've seen, you don't still subscribe to the belief that President Obama, wasn't born in Hawaii? Even the most far right radicals, have gotten off that one.

G.

</div></div>

We agree for the most part.
However race baiting exists prior to any evidence of racism occurring first.

Sorry about the confusion. The "you lied" pertained to abortion not being by the healthcare bill. There is a small portion that now is. </div></div>

As I recall it, A repubican, think his name might have been Joe Wilson, yelled out "You lie!" during the President's address, the State Of the Union Address?

That was unprecedented. And the lie was supposed to be that the president had stated that no federal money would be used for abortions, and he was correct.

The Republican accuser, was wrong.

I don't think there was race baiting. We'll have to agree to disagree on that, I suppose.

The Racist rubbish started immediately after the president announced his candidacy. No one had to bait for it, it was there on it's own, as I recall.

G. </div></div>

Actually 23 million dollars will be used for the purposes of abortion. As I said it was a small portion and it recently came to light last month I believe.

As far as Wilsons outburst. It was out of line. I believe he later apologized for it.
</div></div>

I have seen no confirmed report that any Federal Money will be used for abortion, through the affordable health Care Act.

Additionally, I have seen no confirmed report that Wilson ever apologized for his rude outburst.

I will check into both of these, though...

G. </div></div>

<span style="color: #CC0000">So as it turns out, Wilson's outburst was really all about an accusation that the Health Care Bill would give free health care to illegal aliens, although the other charge was made, as well, over the abortions funding issue, that wasn't what Wilson referenced in his disgusting, unprecedented display of dishonor to the President, and the Office of the Presidency.

Additionally, he did apparently apologize after originally refusing to do so, but only when he realized that his opponent was raising a good deal of money, due to his disgraceful bahavior, and after much Media outrage, and calls for him to do so by people like John McCain.

However, Wilson was actually totally wrong:</span>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Showing that once more that Republicans have no class and no respect for government and Americans, <span style='font-size: 14pt'>Rep. Joe Wilson of South Carolina yelled out "You lie!" when President Obama reassured Americans that his health care reform plan did not include illegal aliens. Politico:</span>

"There are also those who claim that our reform effort will insure illegal immigrants. This, too, is false - the reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally," President Obama said.

A loud voice from the Republican side of the hall answered, "Lie" -- my colleague Glenn Thrush reports it was Rep. Joe Wilson (R - S.C.) -- drawing a second "It's not true," from Obama and a shake of Nancy Pelosi's head.

The bill is designed to exclude those immigrants, though some Republicans have called for more explicit bans on funding for illegal immigrants and have claimed the bill will funnel money to illegal immigrants.

FactCheck.org described those claims as "false" and noted that one version of the legislation already includes an explicit bar on federal funding for illegal immigrants' health care.

Disgusting. Can you imagine the uproar if a Democrat had so little class as to do that during one of Bush's speeches? To be fair, Wilson was condemned on both sides of the aisle. Even McCain said that Wilson should apologize.

There is an http://act.ly/iq petition going viral, asking @CongJoeWilson to apologize for yelling "YOU LIE" in President Obama's speech.
If you'd like to sign,please click here.

UPDATE: Joe Wilson is being challenged by Rob Miller for SC-02. You can donate to Miller's ActBlue page here.

UPDATE #2: Wow. In less than two hours, challenger Rob Miller has raised over $11K. Clearly quaking in his boots at the disgust leveled at him, Wilson has issued the following apology:

“This evening I let my emotions get the best of me when listening to the President’s remarks regarding the coverage of illegal immigrants in the health care bill. While I disagree with the President’s statement, my comments were inappropriate and regrettable. I extend sincere apologies to the President for this lack of civility.”


</div></div>


http://crooksandliars.com/nicole-belle/staying-classy-gop-way-cong-joe-wilso


<span style='font-size: 14pt'><span style="color: #CC0000">As for the abortion charge, that charge, as well, was wrong, and the President actually issued an executive order on that very issue.</span> </span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Obama, executive order, signed March 24: Existing law prohibits these centers from using Federal funds to provide abortion services (except in cases of rape or incest, or when the life of the woman would be endangered), as a result of both the Hyde Amendment and longstanding regulations containing the Hyde language. Under the Act, the Hyde language shall apply to the authorization and appropriations of funds for Community Health Centers under section 10503 and all other relevant provisions. I hereby direct the Secretary of HHS to ensure that program administrators and recipients of Federal funds are aware of and comply with the limitations on abortion services imposed on CHCs by existing law. Such actions should include, but are not limited to, updating Grant Policy Statements that accompany CHC grants and issuing new interpretive rules.



In recent days, we have received a few questions from our readers about an Internet rumor that the law will lead to 400,000 additional abortions. We find that figure to be absurdly improbable — it would require that more than 8 percent of the 4.8 million women of child-bearing age who stand to gain coverage with the help of subsidies would have abortions that they would not have had otherwise — every year.

Where does this number come from? We could only find such a claim in anonymous Internet message boards and blog postings. Some assert that the estimate comes from Planned Parenthood, but when we called that organization, a spokesman told us that wasn’t true. The organization’s position, spokesman Tait Sye told us, is that "expanding access to prevention care, reduces unintended pregnancies and reduces the need for abortion. And this bill does that."

Sye thought the figure may have come from a twisted interpretation of a Guttmacher Institute report. Republican Rep. Michele Bachmann of Minnesota had cited Guttmacher in March, claiming that "if there is taxpayer funding of abortion, there will be 30 percent more abortions." Thirty percent of the 1.2 million abortions performed in 2005 would be 360,000. But Bachmann was referring to a report on what Medicaid recipients would do if that program provided coverage for all abortions. Medicaid rules on abortion funding aren’t going to change under the new health care law, so Bachmann’s claim is irrelevant to the current debate. But even her 30 percent figure in relation to Medicaid is incorrect.

Medicaid coverage is provided by both federal and state funds, and some states — 17 to be exact — use their own funds to subsidize abortion coverage beyond what federal laws allow, to other cases deemed "medically necessary." The Hyde Amendment prohibits federal funding of abortions through Medicaid except in cases of rape, incest or endangerment of the life of the mother. Guttmacher said that if subsidized coverage of abortion for Medicaid recipients were available in all states there would be about a 28 percent increase in the number of abortions among Medicaid recipients in those states that do not subsidize them — not a 28 percent increase in the total number of abortions. As Guttmacher’s Cohen explained in her article, "because relatively few women in any given state are actually enrolled in Medicaid," this would end up being only a 5 percent increase in the total number of abortions in those states. Nationwide, the impact would be even smaller, since "many of the most populous states (such as New York and California) already use their own money to pay for abortion services for poor women." For Medicaid recipients nationwide, the increase would be about 2.5 percent, or 33,000 abortions.

Bachmann’s poor use of statistics inflates that figure 10 times. Plus, she implies that this would be a result of the new health care law, and that’s false. As we said, the new law doesn’t change the Hyde Amendment restrictions on abortion funding through Medicaid.

A fact-check of Bachmann’s claim by the nonprofit journalism site MinnPost.com also cited a New England Journal of Medicine report on what happened regarding the number of abortions in Massachusetts after that state passed health care legislation that extended coverage to nearly all residents, and, like the national law, included an insurance exchange and subsidies to help the uninsured buy coverage. Exchange plans do cover abortion. What happens in Massachusetts may or may not reflect what happens nationally, and not much time has passed since the state implemented its new system in 2006. But so far, the number of abortions decreased by 1.5 percent from 2006 to 2007, the first year the state’s exchange was up and operating. “As of February 2010, more than 439,000 additional people were covered by health insurance, according to the Massachusetts Division of Health Care Finance and Policy, yet the most recent data indicate that the number of abortions in Massachusetts simultaneously reached its lowest level since at least the 1970s," wrote Harvard’s Dr. Patrick Whelan, a pediatric rheumatologist and lead author of the study.

- Lori Robertson

</div></div>

http://www.factcheck.org/2010/04/the-abortion-issue/

<span style="color: #CC0000">Additionally, in a country where slavery and discrimination against African Americans, has been a historical black mark on our nation, and we are still fighting for equal rights, to this day, not only for black Americans, but for women as well, in the work place, and in the privacy of their own doctor's offices, I am puzzled as to how in the world, race baiting, could ever exist in advace of racism, anytime, anyplace in this country, particularly when one studies the statistics available on prosecutorial results, which prove racism to this day, in our court system across this country.

G.</span>

Sev
10-01-2011, 06:14 AM
Chauncey DeVega on Herman Cain.
From Febuary

http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/...trel-for-cpac/

Instead, Herman Cain’s shtick is a version of race minstrelsy where he performs “authentic negritude” as wish fulfillment for White Conservative fantasies. Like the fountain at Lourdes, Cain in his designated role as black Conservative mascot, absolves the White racial reactionaries at CPAC of their sins. This is a refined performance that Black Conservatives have perfected over many decades and centuries of practice.

Let’s consider the routine. First, Cain enters the stage to Motown music. Then Cain feigns swimming after rolling up his sleeves to show them his black skin and how he is a hardworking negro (not like those other ones). Cain bellows in a preacher affected voice and channels the folksy negro down home accent of his late grandpappy. In the money shot, Cain gives the obligatory “black folks who are not Republicans are on the plantation” speech to the joyous applause of his White benefactors. And he doubles down by legitimating any opposition to President Barack Obama as virtuous and patriotic regardless of the bigoted well-springs from which it may flow.

In total, CPAC is a carnival and a roadshow for reactionary Conservatives. It is only fitting that in the great tradition of the freak show, the human zoo, the boardwalk, and the great midway world’s fairs of the 19th and 20th centuries, that there is a Borneo man, a Venus Hottentot or a tribe of cannibals from deepest darkest Africa or Papua New Guinea on display. For CPAC and the White Conservative imagination, Herman Cain and his black and brown kin are that featured attraction.

We always need a monkey in the window, for he/she reminds us of our humanity while simultaneously reinforcing a sense of our own superiority. Sadly, there are always folks who are willing to play that role because it pays so well.

Sev
10-01-2011, 06:18 AM
D.L. Hughley Launches Racial Attack on Herman Cain

http://dailycaller.com/2011/09/30/wheres-the-outrage-over-d-l-hughleys-racist-attack-on-herman-cain/

Black comedian D.L. Hughley is at it again, making racist and incendiary comments about Republicans. Apparently, Herman Cain’s victory in the GOP Florida straw poll was too much for the liberal-minded Hughley to bear. On September 27, Hughley launched into a stream of demeaning, racially charged tweets about Cain on his Twitter account @RealDLHughley, which his loyal followers responded to in kind. You may remember Hughley’s fleeting CNN talk show was cancelled in 2009 because he said during an interview with former RNC Chairman Michael Steele “the Republican National Convention literally looks like Nazi Germany.”

Hughley’s tirade against Cain may have gone unnoticed were it not for @blackrepublican tweeting about Hughley’s incendiary commentary. “Herman Cain won the Florida straw poll by a lot! I loved Herman Cain when he played Mr. Gaines on a different World,” Hughley tweeted. This prompted other tweets by Hughley and his followers that implied Cain was an Uncle Tom and not REALLY black because he is a conservative who doesn’t choose to believe in Democrat plantation policies that keep blacks economically oppressed.

Apparently, Hughley was too absorbed in his racist Twitter banter to notice a recent Rasmussen poll that found Cain trailing Obama by just 5% in a hypothetical match-up.

Several tweets later, Hughley wrote:

This enticed others to compare Cain to the “original Cream of Wheat,” “Stepin Fetchit” and the “butler in Gone with the Wind” — all of which conjure up demeaning, racist caricatures used during the pre- and post-Civil War era to describe the “dutiful slave.”

It’s shocking that, in the 21st century, blacks would so viciously attack a black man because he didn’t agree with their politics. Martin Luther King Jr. would be horrified because this isn’t the freedom he fought and died for.

Even more surprising is the fact that Hughley hasn’t removed or denounced any of the tweets, particularly the one which makes an offensive reference to Sarah Palin.

Most shocking of all, the liberal media has completely ignored the story. If the shoes were reversed and a white conservative comedian or radio host like Rush Limbaugh authored and incited such offensive commentary about Barack Obama or a black Democrat, the left-wing news media and politicians would be outraged. They’d demand apologies, firings and boycotts. But when a black comedian says racist things about a black Republican, he gets a free pass.

While the liberal establishment is busy protecting the double standard, their policies are doing nothing to create jobs for the 16.7% of blacks and 45.6% of black teens who are unemployed. Instead of mocking black conservatives, maybe it’s time for black liberals to turn their attention to some new ideas. After all, the Democrat hand of government isn’t helping blacks rise up. It’s only keeping them enslaved and dependent on a promise that is never realized.

Crystal Wright is a black conservative woman living in Washington, D.C. She’s the editor of the website ConservativeBlackChick.com. Some would say she’s a triple minority: a female black Republican living in a Democrat-dominated city.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/09/30/wheres.../#ixzz1ZX2Qc4eB (http://dailycaller.com/2011/09/30/wheres-the-outrage-over-d-l-hughleys-racist-attack-on-herman-cain/#ixzz1ZX2Qc4eB)

Sev
10-01-2011, 06:27 AM
My mistake. I misremembered.

Wilson was proven correct about funding going to illegal immigrants that may be migrant workers.
<span style="color: #000066">
$28.8 million award to community healthcare centers has been specifically set aside to help seasonal and migrant farm workers, and that the clinics have been told not to ask for immigration status.

"It is clearly providing money that should be going to American citizens not to illegal immigrants,"


</span>

Gayle in MD
10-01-2011, 07:39 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My mistake. I misremembered.

Wilson was proven correct about funding going to illegal immigrants that may be migrant workers.
<span style="color: #000066">
$28.8 million award to community healthcare centers has been specifically set aside to help seasonal and migrant farm workers, and that the clinics have been told not to ask for immigration status.

"It is clearly providing money that should be going to American citizens not to illegal immigrants,"


</span> </div></div>

No link for that information?

I think you may have the Health Care Bill mixed up with Governor Rick Perry's doings in Texas....

There isn't any money in the HCB for illegal Immigrants, although there should be since their usual health care fix, is one of the things that has raised the costs for all of us, when they go for health care to the emergency room, and then leave and don't pay their bills.

Reagan's Amnesty Policy, you know. A true immigration disaster.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> President Obama’s prime-time address to Congress and the nation on health care prompted a Republican congressman to shout “you lie!” Did he? Here’s what we’ve found:

Obama was correct when he said his plan wouldn’t insure illegal immigrants; the House bill expressly forbids giving subsidies to those who are in the country illegally. Conservative critics complain that the bill lacks an enforcement mechanism, but that hardly makes the president a liar.
The president said “no federal dollars will be used to fund abortions.” But the House bill would permit a “public option” to cover all abortions, and would also permit federal subsidies to be used to purchase private insurance that covers all abortions, a point that raises objections from anti-abortion groups. That’s true despite a technical ban on use of taxpayer dollars to pay for abortion coverage.
The president repeated his promise that his plan won’t add “one dime” to the federal deficit. But legislation offered so far would add hundreds of billions of dollars to the deficit over the next decade, according to the Congressional Budget Office.
Obama said his plan won’t “require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have.” It’s true that there’s no requirement, but experts say the legislation could induce employers to switch coverage for millions of workers.
<span style='font-size: 14pt'>Correction, Sept. 16: We originally reported that Obama had "overstated somewhat the degree of concentration in the insurance industry," but we now have retracted that criticism. For a full discussion of why, please see our Sept. 16 FactCheck Wire post: "Retraction: Health Insurance Market Concentration."</span>Analysis
The president addressed a joint session of Congress Sept. 9, and the event was televised nationally.

Illegal Immigrants

Obama said that his proposal would not cover illegal immigrants, a remark that prompted Republican Rep. Joe Wilson of South Carolina to shout "You lie!"

Obama: There are also those who claim that our reform effort will insure illegal immigrants. This, too, is false – the reforms I’m proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally.

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>The president is correct: The House bill contains a section (Sec. 246) titled "NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS," which states: "Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States."</span>

However, conservative critics object to a lack of specific enforcement measures in the bill. They argue that the lack of a specific verification mechanism constitutes a loophole that would allow illegal immigrants to get benefits despite the legal prohibition. Republican Rep. Dean Heller of Nevada proposed an amendment to the bill that would have required the use of the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements program to check the immigration status of anyone applying for federal coverage or affordability credits. SAVE is the program used by Medicaid and similar entitlement programs. That amendment was voted down along party lines by the House Ways and Means Committee.

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>Republicans have a point here: More could be done to enforce the ban. But it’s worth remembering that, as a spokesperson for the American Immigration Lawyers Association told us, attempting to get a health care credit would have legal repercussions. "Making a fraudulent claim to an entitlement program when you’re not actually entitled to it would have serious consequences for any person," the spokesperson told us, "but especially if it’s considered a false claim to citizenship, that would have serious immigration consequences that could ultimately lead to deportation." And Rep. Wilson certainly was out of bounds to call the president’s statement a "lie." He later issued a statement apologizing for his "inappropriate and regrettable" comments.</span>
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/09/obamas-health-care-speech/

Note: We are retracting one of our Sept. 10 criticisms of President Obama’s speech on health care. We said that he "overstated the degree of concentration in the insurance industry." We have continued to research the subject, and the following information turned up by our reporter D’Angelo Gore has led us to change our judgment. While the president may have overstated the findings of one study, we have now found others that show market concentration at least as severe as he described.

Brooks Jackson
Director, FactCheck.org

During his health care speech to Congress and the nation on Sept. 9, President Obama said that in many U.S. states the health insurance market is controlled by just a few companies.

Obama, Sept. 9: Unfortunately, in 34 states, 75 percent of the insurance market is controlled by five or fewer companies. In Alabama, almost 90 percent is controlled by just one company.


We reached out to the White House to find the source for the claim, but we didn’t receive a response. His figures almost certainly came from a report the nonpartisan Government Accountability Office made earlier this year to members of Congress. The GAO said: "The five largest carriers in the small group market, when combined, represented three quarters or more of the market in 34 of the 39 states supplying this information."


That report was based on a 2008 survey of the "small group market," however, not the entire insurance market, as Obama suggested. <span style='font-size: 14pt'>Based on this, we wrote that the president "overstated somewhat the degree of concentration in the insurance industry." We contacted John Dicken, director of health care for GAO, who told us in a telephone interview that the report was indeed limited to the small group market only. "We did not look at the individual market or the large group market," he said.

But we continued to look into the matter this week and found support for the president’s broader claim. The American Medical Association says that the same degree of concentration occurs in the market for Health Maintenance Organizations (HMOs) and Preferred Provider Organizations (PPOs) as well.

An AMA spokesperson told us that while the group agrees that the president was likely referring to the statistic reported by the GAO, its own internal data, collected for a 2008 update for the publication "Competition in Health Insurance: A Comprehensive Study of US Markets," shows that "in all of the 42 states we examined, the combined market share of the five insurers with the largest shares is at least 75 percent." AMA says that its 2008 updated report was based on persons enrolled in the product market for HMOs and PPOs as of January 2006.

Furthermore, the AMA’s data are consistent with an earlier study by James Robinson, a professor of health economics at the University of California, Berkeley. His 2004 analysis also showed state insurance markets are dominated by a small number of companies. According to the study, "Consolidation and the Transformation of Competition in Health Insurance," the "top three firms typically dominate each market. … In only three state markets do the largest three plans control less than 50 percent of the total enrollment, and in only fourteen do the largest three plans control less than 65 percent."

We also noted in our article that a spokeswoman for BlueCross BlueShield of Alabama, the largest private insurer in the state, disputed a claim by the president that "[i]n Alabama, almost 90 percent is controlled by just one company." According to the spokeswoman, the company insured 2.4 million Alabama residents, but Census Bureau figures show nearly 3.2 million state residents are covered by private insurance, which would put the company’s share of the private insurance market at around 75 percent. AMA, though, reported in its 2008 update that BCBS of Alabama had an 89 percent share of the state’s combined product market for HMOs and PPOs.</span>
</div></div>

Sev
10-01-2011, 07:56 AM
Cant find the exact web page I was on.
Here is one from CBS. Which shows that an estimated 25% of farm workers are illegals.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/hhs-...igration-status (http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/hhs-obamacare-funded-health-centers-migrants-wont-check-immigration-status)

Gayle in MD
10-01-2011, 08:02 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cant find the exact web page I was on.
Here is one from CBS. Which shows that an estimated 25% of farm workers are illegals.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/hhs-...igration-status (http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/hhs-obamacare-funded-health-centers-migrants-wont-check-immigration-status) </div></div>

I don't doubt that, but it has nothing to do with Wilson's lies.

G.

ugotda7
10-01-2011, 09:52 AM
I always strongly suspected you had a learning disability and even some mental defects....now it's confirmed.

http://www.theusreport.com/the-us-report...-predicted.html (http://www.theusreport.com/the-us-report/2011/8/11/wilsons-you-lie-accusation-proves-true-as-predicted.html)

Lately I’ve been saying I told you so more than I ever thought possible. Here’s another one. The US Dept. of Health and Human Services has announced more than $8 million in grants to provide medical care for migrant and seasonal farm workers.

What did HHS leave out of their release? Foreign nationals who are in the country illegally will also get free care because, just as I explained after reading the unconstitutional Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act in 2009, I told you care would be given based on self-reportage.

So if I’m a drug dealer in the U.S. illegally, or a human trafficker, I can go for care for my aches and pains, and I will receive it. No one will ask me about my status.

As a government spokesman explained to CNS News: “[G]rant recipients will not check the immigration status of people seeking services.” Furthermore, the grant recipients are required to provide services to all residents in their area.

Rep. Joe Wilson (R-S.C.) was telling the truth when he said, “You lie,” during President Barack Obama’s speech in 2009.

Obama told Americans his healthcare bill would not pay for illegal aliens. Now we know it will.

As the Obama administration ramped up money that could benefit illegals, the socialist progressives were busy cutting money for American citizens and immigrants enrolled in Medicare Advantage. Don’t hold your breath waiting for legacy media to tell you that; they’re too busy shilling for socialists.

It’s my opinion that was the biggest reason for healthcare legislation—to provide medical care for cheap laborers, drug cartels, human traffickers, smugglers and anyone else who comes across the open southern border of the U.S. How can I say that? I actually took time to research those 40 million or so uninsured the president kept talking about.

It didn’t take long for me to realize the US taxpayer would be tapped again to provide services to people who are not in the country legally and are possibly here for criminal activities.

Not a single legacy media outlet ever asked a single question about all those uninsured the president often spoke about. Not a single outlet ever asked about the figures in those numbers, varying from 32-49 million.

Democrats have repeatedly lied about the provisions of a healthcare bill that will shift costs to those of us who purchase insurance through employers or through trade groups.

Voters should question the integrity of any administration that would cut services for the elderly in order to accommodate corporations in search of cheap labor and individuals who come here illegally.

Rep. Wilson is vindicated. Meanwhile, Democrats continue to tell Americans one thing and do another behind their backs. We can’t pay for Medicare Advantage, but we can pay for any foreigner who comes here with a medical condition. Be sure to thank a Democrat for that application of your tax dollars.

Is it even legal for the federal government to tax Americans to pay for services for foreign nationals

Soflasnapper
10-01-2011, 11:12 AM
What I remember about the alleged 'allowance' of undocumented workers to participate was this.

There is something called VeriChek or something, which has been partially or fully implemented in some jurisdictions, but on a voluntary basis so far. It is supposed to be a way high tech method of 100% accuracy as to determining potential aid recipients' immigration status, and the GOP demanded IT be implemented into any federal programs or else, they claimed, clearly the intent was to allow fraudulent claims to be made, and therefore, undocumenteds will get the benefits.

As usual, the proponents for this program entirely overstate its accuracy, and deny clear issues with it that create the opposite of accuracy. Moreover, it's more a model project in motion, trials of it showing both benefits and harm, which is not ready for prime time mandatory nation-wide application. So there are many talking points about why it is not appropriate to use, even as the ban on them receiving these benefits is stated in the law and in presidential EOs.

Those demanding it are saying if you don't add the belt to the suspenders, the pants will fall down. As a general matter, such redundancy is NOT required to keep the pants up. And it remains simply false that refusing to implement a flawed and inaccurate policy to ensure the refusal of benefits is rather assuring that benefits will be wrongly given to the undocumenteds or their families.

Ok, it's evidently called E-Verify, not what I remembered.

Here's commentary on that system, from when it was proposed to be implemented in Denver:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> That points to the problems with E-verify.

What's been talked about most is the false-positive rate, or the number of authorized workers (citizens, or foreigners with work visas) who get rejected by the system at first, said to be as high as 5%. What hasn't gotten as much attention, which I found when I started to look into the issue, is that E-verify mistakenly passes up to 50% of unauthorized workers - because they are using valid SSNs (even if not theirs), and other convincing ID, exactly what "racer" is talking about.

So there are real problems, and valid concerns, with E-verify. I'm not saying we should just give up, but the system needs to be revamped or replaced so that we have something that really works well. Unfortunately, "conservatives" and the black-helicopter crowd have tended to oppose measures like a real national ID card, workers' IDs or biometrics, that would provide truly effective solutions for determining who is in this country legitimately, and is allowed to work. (and those are what all the other countries often cited as having better immigration enforcement, including Mexico, have)</div></div>

Soflasnapper
10-01-2011, 11:40 AM
Discussion of e-verify here. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/story/2011-09-22/House-immigration-status-E-Verify/50520146/1) Timely again, as it is a current House proposal.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A Bloomberg Government report found that small businesses would have to spend $2.6 billion a year to use the program.

E-Verify is free to use, but the report found that businesses would have to train human resources officers, purchase computers and Internet access and hire personnel to oversee the screenings.

When discussing an earlier version of the bill in 2005, House Speaker John Boehner told the Republican National Hispanic Assembly that the nationwide expansion of the program was "well-intentioned, but fatally flawed" and said employers should not be "burdened with another cumbersome federal mandate." </div></div>

Sev
10-02-2011, 06:49 AM
An interesting take.

http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/the-race-card-president-130931858.html?ref=858

We'll probably never purge society of racial stupidity. Holding it to a minimum, however, remains a fine American goal.

It's hard to marginalize the race-card mentality, however, when the country's first black president and his supporters wield it like a splitting ax.

That track record on this is crystal clear. In 2008, when campaigning in Missouri, Sen. Barack Obama set the stage for his national run by saying his opponent, Sen. John McCain, would seek to "scare" voters because Obama didn't look like past presidents and had a "funny name."

You don't need the imagination of Dr. Seuss to see that race card.

Those with no imagination (or those who won't see) may wish to contemplate comments by Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, D-Racebait, TX. In the recent debt ceiling debate, Rep. Jackson said: "I'm particularly sensitive to the fact that only this president, only this president, only this one, has received the kind of attacks and disagreements and inability to work. Only this one."

And just in case you didn't get it, she added: "Read between the lines."

We get it, Sheila. If you won't give President Obama more money to spend, you're a racist.

Crew Obama implements racial strategy in cooperation with the ideologically aligned "white guilt" media to inoculate the president from policy criticism. The Tea Party movement, for example, receives a double dose of the racial scorn because it poses a new and powerful threat to Obama policies.

I know this, in part, because when the Tea Party held rallies in Nevada, I followed on Twitter a couple of the reporters who covered the event. One reporter, a politically liberal sort, filed numerous derisive Tweets on his way to the rally on a Tea Party bus. He made fun of people's weight, their skin color and even fantasized that the bus load of "Tea Baggers" might soon break out in anti-Semitic song.

Of course, none of it happened in real life, but it gives you the mind-set of an all too typical reporter. (As an aside, there are good reporters who can overcome their own biases, but not enough.)

The advent of Texas Gov. Rick Perry as a contender for the GOP nomination for president earned him a race card dealt from the bottom of the deck.

Whispers of him being a "Southern white racist" echoed between Obama re-election operatives and the liberal media. And it didn't take long for the shameless MSNBC to find a way to get it out in the open.

Host Ed Schultz ran a clip of Perry speaking in Iowa about "that big black cloud that hangs over America -- that debt that is so monstrous." Schultz, however, cut the sound bite off to make it say "that big black cloud that hangs over America." He then said, "that black cloud that Perry is talking about is President Barack Obama."

Schultz later said he regretted "the error." Damage done.

Another GOP hopeful, Herman Cain, put his finger on the problem. In his new book, "This is Herman Cain! My Journey to the White House," he writes, "Whenever President Obama is criticized over policy mistakes, his surrogates tend to play the race card, as if there's supposed to be something inherently morally wrong in such criticism."

While Cain doesn't go so far as to blame President Obama personally for these racial attacks, many do. And that includes none other than former President Bill Clinton.

Clinton felt the sting of the Obama race card strategy just after the 2008 South Carolina primary, in which Obama beat Hillary Clinton. Bill Clinton tried to downplay the significance of the Obama win by pointing out that South Carolina had also voted for Jesse Jackson. Crew Obama called Clinton out for a racial foul.

"I think that they played the race card on me," said Bill Clinton. "And we now know, from memos from the campaign and everything, that they planned to do it all along."

Look, you can love or hate the policies of President Obama. That's what makes America grand. But, please, don't pretend Barack Obama hasn't become "The Race Card President."

Look for it early and often in 2012.

Sherman Frederick, former publisher of the Las Vegas Review-Journal, writes a weekly column for Stephens Media.

Gayle in MD
10-02-2011, 07:29 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">An interesting take.

http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/the-race-card-president-130931858.html?ref=858

We'll probably never purge society of racial stupidity. Holding it to a minimum, however, remains a fine American goal.

It's hard to marginalize the race-card mentality, however, when the country's first black president and his supporters wield it like a splitting ax.

That track record on this is crystal clear. In 2008, when campaigning in Missouri, Sen. Barack Obama set the stage for his national run by saying his opponent, Sen. John McCain, would seek to "scare" voters because Obama didn't look like past presidents and had a "funny name."

You don't need the imagination of Dr. Seuss to see that race card.

Those with no imagination (or those who won't see) may wish to contemplate comments by Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, D-Racebait, TX. In the recent debt ceiling debate, Rep. Jackson said: "I'm particularly sensitive to the fact that only this president, only this president, only this one, has received the kind of attacks and disagreements and inability to work. Only this one."

And just in case you didn't get it, she added: "Read between the lines."

We get it, Sheila. If you won't give President Obama more money to spend, you're a racist.

Crew Obama implements racial strategy in cooperation with the ideologically aligned "white guilt" media to inoculate the president from policy criticism. The Tea Party movement, for example, receives a double dose of the racial scorn because it poses a new and powerful threat to Obama policies.

I know this, in part, because when the Tea Party held rallies in Nevada, I followed on Twitter a couple of the reporters who covered the event. One reporter, a politically liberal sort, filed numerous derisive Tweets on his way to the rally on a Tea Party bus. He made fun of people's weight, their skin color and even fantasized that the bus load of "Tea Baggers" might soon break out in anti-Semitic song.

Of course, none of it happened in real life, but it gives you the mind-set of an all too typical reporter. (As an aside, there are good reporters who can overcome their own biases, but not enough.)

The advent of Texas Gov. Rick Perry as a contender for the GOP nomination for president earned him a race card dealt from the bottom of the deck.

Whispers of him being a "Southern white racist" echoed between Obama re-election operatives and the liberal media. And it didn't take long for the shameless MSNBC to find a way to get it out in the open.

Host Ed Schultz ran a clip of Perry speaking in Iowa about "that big black cloud that hangs over America -- that debt that is so monstrous." Schultz, however, cut the sound bite off to make it say "that big black cloud that hangs over America." He then said, "that black cloud that Perry is talking about is President Barack Obama."

Schultz later said he regretted "the error." Damage done.

Another GOP hopeful, Herman Cain, put his finger on the problem. In his new book, "This is Herman Cain! My Journey to the White House," he writes, "Whenever President Obama is criticized over policy mistakes, his surrogates tend to play the race card, as if there's supposed to be something inherently morally wrong in such criticism."

While Cain doesn't go so far as to blame President Obama personally for these racial attacks, many do. And that includes none other than former President Bill Clinton.

Clinton felt the sting of the Obama race card strategy just after the 2008 South Carolina primary, in which Obama beat Hillary Clinton. Bill Clinton tried to downplay the significance of the Obama win by pointing out that South Carolina had also voted for Jesse Jackson. Crew Obama called Clinton out for a racial foul.

"I think that they played the race card on me," said Bill Clinton. "And we now know, from memos from the campaign and everything, that they planned to do it all along."

Look, you can love or hate the policies of President Obama. That's what makes America grand. But, please, don't pretend Barack Obama hasn't become "The Race Card President."

Look for it early and often in 2012.

Sherman Frederick, former publisher of the Las Vegas Review-Journal, writes a weekly column for Stephens Media.
</div></div>

I don't see how you could live in this country, and still try to claim that people use the race card, but actual racism, doesn't exist..

I honestly don't know how you can think that.

G.

Sev
10-02-2011, 07:59 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">An interesting take.

http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/the-race-card-president-130931858.html?ref=858

We'll probably never purge society of racial stupidity. Holding it to a minimum, however, remains a fine American goal.

It's hard to marginalize the race-card mentality, however, when the country's first black president and his supporters wield it like a splitting ax.

That track record on this is crystal clear. In 2008, when campaigning in Missouri, Sen. Barack Obama set the stage for his national run by saying his opponent, Sen. John McCain, would seek to "scare" voters because Obama didn't look like past presidents and had a "funny name."

You don't need the imagination of Dr. Seuss to see that race card.

Those with no imagination (or those who won't see) may wish to contemplate comments by Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, D-Racebait, TX. In the recent debt ceiling debate, Rep. Jackson said: "I'm particularly sensitive to the fact that only this president, only this president, only this one, has received the kind of attacks and disagreements and inability to work. Only this one."

And just in case you didn't get it, she added: "Read between the lines."

We get it, Sheila. If you won't give President Obama more money to spend, you're a racist.

Crew Obama implements racial strategy in cooperation with the ideologically aligned "white guilt" media to inoculate the president from policy criticism. The Tea Party movement, for example, receives a double dose of the racial scorn because it poses a new and powerful threat to Obama policies.

I know this, in part, because when the Tea Party held rallies in Nevada, I followed on Twitter a couple of the reporters who covered the event. One reporter, a politically liberal sort, filed numerous derisive Tweets on his way to the rally on a Tea Party bus. He made fun of people's weight, their skin color and even fantasized that the bus load of "Tea Baggers" might soon break out in anti-Semitic song.

Of course, none of it happened in real life, but it gives you the mind-set of an all too typical reporter. (As an aside, there are good reporters who can overcome their own biases, but not enough.)

The advent of Texas Gov. Rick Perry as a contender for the GOP nomination for president earned him a race card dealt from the bottom of the deck.

Whispers of him being a "Southern white racist" echoed between Obama re-election operatives and the liberal media. And it didn't take long for the shameless MSNBC to find a way to get it out in the open.

Host Ed Schultz ran a clip of Perry speaking in Iowa about "that big black cloud that hangs over America -- that debt that is so monstrous." Schultz, however, cut the sound bite off to make it say "that big black cloud that hangs over America." He then said, "that black cloud that Perry is talking about is President Barack Obama."

Schultz later said he regretted "the error." Damage done.

Another GOP hopeful, Herman Cain, put his finger on the problem. In his new book, "This is Herman Cain! My Journey to the White House," he writes, "Whenever President Obama is criticized over policy mistakes, his surrogates tend to play the race card, as if there's supposed to be something inherently morally wrong in such criticism."

While Cain doesn't go so far as to blame President Obama personally for these racial attacks, many do. And that includes none other than former President Bill Clinton.

Clinton felt the sting of the Obama race card strategy just after the 2008 South Carolina primary, in which Obama beat Hillary Clinton. Bill Clinton tried to downplay the significance of the Obama win by pointing out that South Carolina had also voted for Jesse Jackson. Crew Obama called Clinton out for a racial foul.

"I think that they played the race card on me," said Bill Clinton. "And we now know, from memos from the campaign and everything, that they planned to do it all along."

Look, you can love or hate the policies of President Obama. That's what makes America grand. But, please, don't pretend Barack Obama hasn't become "The Race Card President."

Look for it early and often in 2012.

Sherman Frederick, former publisher of the Las Vegas Review-Journal, writes a weekly column for Stephens Media.
</div></div>

I don't see how you could live in this country, and still try to claim that people use the race card, but actual racism, doesn't exist..

I honestly don't know how you can think that.

G. </div></div>

I'm not sure if that's a rhetorical question or a suggestion that I have stated that racism doesn't exist.

Racism has an will always exist to some extent. Even if completely interbreed planet wide its human nature to find differences and highlight them.

I am always reminded of that one episode of the original Star Trek where the 2 guys were half black and half white. The only difference was that their colors were opposing.

Gayle in MD
10-02-2011, 08:06 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">An interesting take.

http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/the-race-card-president-130931858.html?ref=858

We'll probably never purge society of racial stupidity. Holding it to a minimum, however, remains a fine American goal.

It's hard to marginalize the race-card mentality, however, when the country's first black president and his supporters wield it like a splitting ax.

That track record on this is crystal clear. In 2008, when campaigning in Missouri, Sen. Barack Obama set the stage for his national run by saying his opponent, Sen. John McCain, would seek to "scare" voters because Obama didn't look like past presidents and had a "funny name."

You don't need the imagination of Dr. Seuss to see that race card.

Those with no imagination (or those who won't see) may wish to contemplate comments by Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, D-Racebait, TX. In the recent debt ceiling debate, Rep. Jackson said: "I'm particularly sensitive to the fact that only this president, only this president, only this one, has received the kind of attacks and disagreements and inability to work. Only this one."

And just in case you didn't get it, she added: "Read between the lines."

We get it, Sheila. If you won't give President Obama more money to spend, you're a racist.

Crew Obama implements racial strategy in cooperation with the ideologically aligned "white guilt" media to inoculate the president from policy criticism. The Tea Party movement, for example, receives a double dose of the racial scorn because it poses a new and powerful threat to Obama policies.

I know this, in part, because when the Tea Party held rallies in Nevada, I followed on Twitter a couple of the reporters who covered the event. One reporter, a politically liberal sort, filed numerous derisive Tweets on his way to the rally on a Tea Party bus. He made fun of people's weight, their skin color and even fantasized that the bus load of "Tea Baggers" might soon break out in anti-Semitic song.

Of course, none of it happened in real life, but it gives you the mind-set of an all too typical reporter. (As an aside, there are good reporters who can overcome their own biases, but not enough.)

The advent of Texas Gov. Rick Perry as a contender for the GOP nomination for president earned him a race card dealt from the bottom of the deck.

Whispers of him being a "Southern white racist" echoed between Obama re-election operatives and the liberal media. And it didn't take long for the shameless MSNBC to find a way to get it out in the open.

Host Ed Schultz ran a clip of Perry speaking in Iowa about "that big black cloud that hangs over America -- that debt that is so monstrous." Schultz, however, cut the sound bite off to make it say "that big black cloud that hangs over America." He then said, "that black cloud that Perry is talking about is President Barack Obama."

Schultz later said he regretted "the error." Damage done.

Another GOP hopeful, Herman Cain, put his finger on the problem. In his new book, "This is Herman Cain! My Journey to the White House," he writes, "Whenever President Obama is criticized over policy mistakes, his surrogates tend to play the race card, as if there's supposed to be something inherently morally wrong in such criticism."

While Cain doesn't go so far as to blame President Obama personally for these racial attacks, many do. And that includes none other than former President Bill Clinton.

Clinton felt the sting of the Obama race card strategy just after the 2008 South Carolina primary, in which Obama beat Hillary Clinton. Bill Clinton tried to downplay the significance of the Obama win by pointing out that South Carolina had also voted for Jesse Jackson. Crew Obama called Clinton out for a racial foul.

"I think that they played the race card on me," said Bill Clinton. "And we now know, from memos from the campaign and everything, that they planned to do it all along."

Look, you can love or hate the policies of President Obama. That's what makes America grand. But, please, don't pretend Barack Obama hasn't become "The Race Card President."

Look for it early and often in 2012.

Sherman Frederick, former publisher of the Las Vegas Review-Journal, writes a weekly column for Stephens Media.
</div></div>

I don't see how you could live in this country, and still try to claim that people use the race card, but actual racism, doesn't exist..

I honestly don't know how you can think that.

G. </div></div>

I'm not sure if that's a rhetorical question or a suggestion that I have stated that racism doesn't exist.

Racism has an will always exist to some extent. Even if completely interbreed planet wide its human nature to find differences and highlight them.

I am always reminded of that one episode of the original Star Trek where the 2 guys were half black and half white. The only difference was that their colors were opposing. </div></div>

I think there is a vast difference between <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">its human nature to find differences and highlight them.

</div></div> and racism.

G.

Sev
10-02-2011, 04:22 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">An interesting take.

http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/the-race-card-president-130931858.html?ref=858

We'll probably never purge society of racial stupidity. Holding it to a minimum, however, remains a fine American goal.

It's hard to marginalize the race-card mentality, however, when the country's first black president and his supporters wield it like a splitting ax.

That track record on this is crystal clear. In 2008, when campaigning in Missouri, Sen. Barack Obama set the stage for his national run by saying his opponent, Sen. John McCain, would seek to "scare" voters because Obama didn't look like past presidents and had a "funny name."

You don't need the imagination of Dr. Seuss to see that race card.

Those with no imagination (or those who won't see) may wish to contemplate comments by Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, D-Racebait, TX. In the recent debt ceiling debate, Rep. Jackson said: "I'm particularly sensitive to the fact that only this president, only this president, only this one, has received the kind of attacks and disagreements and inability to work. Only this one."

And just in case you didn't get it, she added: "Read between the lines."

We get it, Sheila. If you won't give President Obama more money to spend, you're a racist.

Crew Obama implements racial strategy in cooperation with the ideologically aligned "white guilt" media to inoculate the president from policy criticism. The Tea Party movement, for example, receives a double dose of the racial scorn because it poses a new and powerful threat to Obama policies.

I know this, in part, because when the Tea Party held rallies in Nevada, I followed on Twitter a couple of the reporters who covered the event. One reporter, a politically liberal sort, filed numerous derisive Tweets on his way to the rally on a Tea Party bus. He made fun of people's weight, their skin color and even fantasized that the bus load of "Tea Baggers" might soon break out in anti-Semitic song.

Of course, none of it happened in real life, but it gives you the mind-set of an all too typical reporter. (As an aside, there are good reporters who can overcome their own biases, but not enough.)

The advent of Texas Gov. Rick Perry as a contender for the GOP nomination for president earned him a race card dealt from the bottom of the deck.

Whispers of him being a "Southern white racist" echoed between Obama re-election operatives and the liberal media. And it didn't take long for the shameless MSNBC to find a way to get it out in the open.

Host Ed Schultz ran a clip of Perry speaking in Iowa about "that big black cloud that hangs over America -- that debt that is so monstrous." Schultz, however, cut the sound bite off to make it say "that big black cloud that hangs over America." He then said, "that black cloud that Perry is talking about is President Barack Obama."

Schultz later said he regretted "the error." Damage done.

Another GOP hopeful, Herman Cain, put his finger on the problem. In his new book, "This is Herman Cain! My Journey to the White House," he writes, "Whenever President Obama is criticized over policy mistakes, his surrogates tend to play the race card, as if there's supposed to be something inherently morally wrong in such criticism."

While Cain doesn't go so far as to blame President Obama personally for these racial attacks, many do. And that includes none other than former President Bill Clinton.

Clinton felt the sting of the Obama race card strategy just after the 2008 South Carolina primary, in which Obama beat Hillary Clinton. Bill Clinton tried to downplay the significance of the Obama win by pointing out that South Carolina had also voted for Jesse Jackson. Crew Obama called Clinton out for a racial foul.

"I think that they played the race card on me," said Bill Clinton. "And we now know, from memos from the campaign and everything, that they planned to do it all along."

Look, you can love or hate the policies of President Obama. That's what makes America grand. But, please, don't pretend Barack Obama hasn't become "The Race Card President."

Look for it early and often in 2012.

Sherman Frederick, former publisher of the Las Vegas Review-Journal, writes a weekly column for Stephens Media.
</div></div>

I don't see how you could live in this country, and still try to claim that people use the race card, but actual racism, doesn't exist..

I honestly don't know how you can think that.

G. </div></div>

I'm not sure if that's a rhetorical question or a suggestion that I have stated that racism doesn't exist.

Racism has an will always exist to some extent. Even if completely interbreed planet wide its human nature to find differences and highlight them.

I am always reminded of that one episode of the original Star Trek where the 2 guys were half black and half white. The only difference was that their colors were opposing. </div></div>

I think there is a vast difference between <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">its human nature to find differences and highlight them.

</div></div> and racism.

G. </div></div>

In the beginning perhaps. Racism is generally based on differences between group's of people.
If I am not mistaken some psychologists have suggested that it starts as a defense mechanism.

Sev
10-02-2011, 04:25 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Discussion of e-verify here. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/story/2011-09-22/House-immigration-status-E-Verify/50520146/1) Timely again, as it is a current House proposal.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A Bloomberg Government report found that small businesses would have to spend $2.6 billion a year to use the program.

E-Verify is free to use, but the report found that businesses would have to train human resources officers, purchase computers and Internet access and hire personnel to oversee the screenings.

When discussing an earlier version of the bill in 2005, House Speaker John Boehner told the Republican National Hispanic Assembly that the nationwide expansion of the program was "well-intentioned, but fatally flawed" and said employers should not be "burdened with another cumbersome federal mandate." </div></div> </div></div>

It is not the place of business to perform the duties of immigration.
We have immigration laws that are not being properly enforced.

Soflasnapper
10-02-2011, 06:49 PM
Host Ed Schultz ran a clip of Perry speaking in Iowa about "that big black cloud that hangs over America -- that debt that is so monstrous." Schultz, however, cut the sound bite off to make it say "that big black cloud that hangs over America." He then said, "that black cloud that Perry is talking about is President Barack Obama."

Schultz later said he regretted "the error." Damage done.

Well, 'later' was only a day or so.

Luckily for Perry, the damage done was to Ed, plus few people watch him, and fewer still (as in likely zero) GOP primary voters, so the REACH of this lie was very limited.

Ed has an excuse of sorts, in that he isn't particularly bright. If he were smarter, he wouldn't have put up such a howler of a lie that was so easily shown false. So there's that as well.

Soflasnapper
10-02-2011, 06:52 PM
It is not the place of business to perform the duties of immigration.
We have immigration laws that are not being properly enforced.

Actually, businesses have a legal duty under the law to take reasonable measures to assure their hires are documented and have a legal right to work.

That's been true for over 20 years. The old I-9 form may still be in effect (not sure), but required the presentation and record kept of one of several forms of legit ID establishing the immigration status.

Gayle in MD
10-03-2011, 12:13 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">An interesting take.

http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/the-race-card-president-130931858.html?ref=858

We'll probably never purge society of racial stupidity. Holding it to a minimum, however, remains a fine American goal.

It's hard to marginalize the race-card mentality, however, when the country's first black president and his supporters wield it like a splitting ax.

That track record on this is crystal clear. In 2008, when campaigning in Missouri, Sen. Barack Obama set the stage for his national run by saying his opponent, Sen. John McCain, would seek to "scare" voters because Obama didn't look like past presidents and had a "funny name."

You don't need the imagination of Dr. Seuss to see that race card.

Those with no imagination (or those who won't see) may wish to contemplate comments by Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, D-Racebait, TX. In the recent debt ceiling debate, Rep. Jackson said: "I'm particularly sensitive to the fact that only this president, only this president, only this one, has received the kind of attacks and disagreements and inability to work. Only this one."

And just in case you didn't get it, she added: "Read between the lines."

We get it, Sheila. If you won't give President Obama more money to spend, you're a racist.

Crew Obama implements racial strategy in cooperation with the ideologically aligned "white guilt" media to inoculate the president from policy criticism. The Tea Party movement, for example, receives a double dose of the racial scorn because it poses a new and powerful threat to Obama policies.

I know this, in part, because when the Tea Party held rallies in Nevada, I followed on Twitter a couple of the reporters who covered the event. One reporter, a politically liberal sort, filed numerous derisive Tweets on his way to the rally on a Tea Party bus. He made fun of people's weight, their skin color and even fantasized that the bus load of "Tea Baggers" might soon break out in anti-Semitic song.

Of course, none of it happened in real life, but it gives you the mind-set of an all too typical reporter. (As an aside, there are good reporters who can overcome their own biases, but not enough.)

The advent of Texas Gov. Rick Perry as a contender for the GOP nomination for president earned him a race card dealt from the bottom of the deck.

Whispers of him being a "Southern white racist" echoed between Obama re-election operatives and the liberal media. And it didn't take long for the shameless MSNBC to find a way to get it out in the open.

Host Ed Schultz ran a clip of Perry speaking in Iowa about "that big black cloud that hangs over America -- that debt that is so monstrous." Schultz, however, cut the sound bite off to make it say "that big black cloud that hangs over America." He then said, "that black cloud that Perry is talking about is President Barack Obama."

Schultz later said he regretted "the error." Damage done.

Another GOP hopeful, Herman Cain, put his finger on the problem. In his new book, "This is Herman Cain! My Journey to the White House," he writes, "Whenever President Obama is criticized over policy mistakes, his surrogates tend to play the race card, as if there's supposed to be something inherently morally wrong in such criticism."

While Cain doesn't go so far as to blame President Obama personally for these racial attacks, many do. And that includes none other than former President Bill Clinton.

Clinton felt the sting of the Obama race card strategy just after the 2008 South Carolina primary, in which Obama beat Hillary Clinton. Bill Clinton tried to downplay the significance of the Obama win by pointing out that South Carolina had also voted for Jesse Jackson. Crew Obama called Clinton out for a racial foul.

"I think that they played the race card on me," said Bill Clinton. "And we now know, from memos from the campaign and everything, that they planned to do it all along."

Look, you can love or hate the policies of President Obama. That's what makes America grand. But, please, don't pretend Barack Obama hasn't become "The Race Card President."

Look for it early and often in 2012.

Sherman Frederick, former publisher of the Las Vegas Review-Journal, writes a weekly column for Stephens Media.
</div></div>

I don't see how you could live in this country, and still try to claim that people use the race card, but actual racism, doesn't exist..

I honestly don't know how you can think that.

G. </div></div>

I'm not sure if that's a rhetorical question or a suggestion that I have stated that racism doesn't exist.

Racism has an will always exist to some extent. Even if completely interbreed planet wide its human nature to find differences and highlight them.

I am always reminded of that one episode of the original Star Trek where the 2 guys were half black and half white. The only difference was that their colors were opposing. </div></div>

I think there is a vast difference between <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">its human nature to find differences and highlight them.

</div></div> and racism.

G. </div></div>

In the beginning perhaps. Racism is generally based on differences between group's of people.
If I am not mistaken some psychologists have suggested that it starts as a defense mechanism. </div></div>

Not just "in the beginning" and not just based on noticing differences, IMO.

Racism is about being against equality for all, against human rights, for all, regardless of race or ethnicity.

Racism degrades the value of, and rights of other human beings, just because they are different from you.

The same would be true of sexism. Both actively seek to oppress the rights of others.

G.

Qtec
10-03-2011, 05:45 AM
If Cain becomes POTUS, dial 999.

Q

LWW
10-03-2011, 05:51 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If Cain becomes POTUS, dial 999.

Q </div></div>

Why are you being a racist?

Your contention has always been that the only reason a black candidate would be opposed is that those who oppose simply must be racist.

Qtec
10-03-2011, 06:08 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If Cain becomes POTUS, dial 999.

Q </div></div>

Why are you being a racist?

Your contention has always been that the only reason a black candidate would be opposed is that those who oppose simply must be racist. </div></div>

FOR THE ZILLIONTH TIME.........

quote me.

Don't just make $hit up. You sound like Pailn...

Q.....Geez

Gayle in MD
10-03-2011, 11:16 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Discussion of e-verify here. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/story/2011-09-22/House-immigration-status-E-Verify/50520146/1) Timely again, as it is a current House proposal.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A Bloomberg Government report found that small businesses would have to spend $2.6 billion a year to use the program.

E-Verify is free to use, but the report found that businesses would have to train human resources officers, purchase computers and Internet access and hire personnel to oversee the screenings.

When discussing an earlier version of the bill in 2005, House Speaker John Boehner told the Republican National Hispanic Assembly that the nationwide expansion of the program was "well-intentioned, but fatally flawed" and said employers should not be "burdened with another cumbersome federal mandate." </div></div> </div></div>

It is not the place of business to perform the duties of immigration.
We have immigration laws that are not being properly enforced. </div></div>

It is not the place of business, to commit income tax evasion, in concert with others, either.

G.

Sev
10-05-2011, 06:47 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Discussion of e-verify here. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/story/2011-09-22/House-immigration-status-E-Verify/50520146/1) Timely again, as it is a current House proposal.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A Bloomberg Government report found that small businesses would have to spend $2.6 billion a year to use the program.

E-Verify is free to use, but the report found that businesses would have to train human resources officers, purchase computers and Internet access and hire personnel to oversee the screenings.

When discussing an earlier version of the bill in 2005, House Speaker John Boehner told the Republican National Hispanic Assembly that the nationwide expansion of the program was "well-intentioned, but fatally flawed" and said employers should not be "burdened with another cumbersome federal mandate." </div></div> </div></div>

It is not the place of business to perform the duties of immigration.
We have immigration laws that are not being properly enforced. </div></div>

It is not the place of business, to commit income tax evasion, in concert with others, either.

G. </div></div>
True.
However that is another matter.
If the federal government was properly enforcing the immigration laws from the get go, illegals would not be an issue.

Sev
10-05-2011, 06:55 AM
Cant help but notice Cains media coverage is on the rise as well.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/...ens-convention

<span style='font-size: 20pt'>Cain wins straw poll at GOP women's forum</span>
By Meghashyam Mali - 10/03/11 07:50 AM ET

GOP presidential candidate Herman Cain won this weekend's straw poll at the National Federation of Republican Women Convention, reports NBC News.

Cain received 48.9 percent of the vote, well ahead of the second-place finisher Texas Gov. Rick Perry, at 14.1 percent.

Republican front-runner former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney placed third in the poll, with 13.3 percent.

The poll was conducted among activist Republican women at the convention on Saturday in Kansas City.

The win for Cain comes after his upset victory in last month's Florida Presidency 5 straw poll, where he similarly won more votes than GOP front-runners Perry and Romney combined.

Polls suggest Cain could be gaining from Perry's missteps after a series of poor debate performances raised questions about the Texas governor's candidacy.

A national poll for Fox News released last week showed Cain gaining momentum in the GOP primary with the backing of 17 percent of likely Republican voters, in third place behind Perry and Romney.

Cain addressed the GOP women's convention Saturday shortly before the vote. Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich (Ga.), who received 12.5 percent of votes, and former Sen. Rick Santorum (Pa.), who received 6.9 percent, also addressed the gathering.

Sev
10-05-2011, 06:58 AM
Herman Cain is also now in second behind Romney and also according to Gallop has a 30% positive intensity leading the other candidates.

eg8r
10-05-2011, 07:36 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">True.
However that is another matter.
</div></div>Leave it to gayle to change the subject when she has nothing of value to add to a conversation.

eg8r

Sev
10-05-2011, 07:43 AM
Hermain Cain just tied Romney in a CBS poll.

Gayle in MD
10-05-2011, 07:54 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Discussion of e-verify here. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/story/2011-09-22/House-immigration-status-E-Verify/50520146/1) Timely again, as it is a current House proposal.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A Bloomberg Government report found that small businesses would have to spend $2.6 billion a year to use the program.

E-Verify is free to use, but the report found that businesses would have to train human resources officers, purchase computers and Internet access and hire personnel to oversee the screenings.

When discussing an earlier version of the bill in 2005, House Speaker John Boehner told the Republican National Hispanic Assembly that the nationwide expansion of the program was "well-intentioned, but fatally flawed" and said employers should not be "burdened with another cumbersome federal mandate." </div></div> </div></div>

It is not the place of business to perform the duties of immigration.
We have immigration laws that are not being properly enforced. </div></div>

It is not the place of business, to commit income tax evasion, in concert with others, either.

G. </div></div>
True.
However that is another matter.
If the federal government was properly enforcing the immigration laws from the get go, illegals would not be an issue. </div></div>

I agree, Ronald Reagan launched a disaster, and Republicans expanded it in order to provide cheap labor for American Corporations, who could steal more from the government, by hiring illegals, and thereby, they created ennough slave labor, to contribute to destroying the Middle Class American Worker.

Just my opinion, of course, mine and dozens of award winning econmists, that is.

Reagan was the president whose policies were to wipe out our Immigration policies and laws, when he pushed for Amnesty....basically allowing law breakers to become American citizens, which created this span of time where we witnessed the greatest flow of illegal immigrants into this country, than we had ever seen, since immigration laws were created, as is proven, by government studies.

G.

Gayle in MD
10-05-2011, 07:57 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cant help but notice Cains media coverage is on the rise as well.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/...ens-convention

<span style='font-size: 20pt'>Cain wins straw poll at GOP women's forum</span>
By Meghashyam Mali - 10/03/11 07:50 AM ET

GOP presidential candidate Herman Cain won this weekend's straw poll at the National Federation of Republican Women Convention, reports NBC News.

Cain received 48.9 percent of the vote, well ahead of the second-place finisher Texas Gov. Rick Perry, at 14.1 percent.

Republican front-runner former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney placed third in the poll, with 13.3 percent.

The poll was conducted among activist Republican women at the convention on Saturday in Kansas City.

The win for Cain comes after his upset victory in last month's Florida Presidency 5 straw poll, where he similarly won more votes than GOP front-runners Perry and Romney combined.

Polls suggest Cain could be gaining from Perry's missteps after a series of poor debate performances raised questions about the Texas governor's candidacy.

A national poll for Fox News released last week showed Cain gaining momentum in the GOP primary with the backing of 17 percent of likely Republican voters, in third place behind Perry and Romney.

Cain addressed the GOP women's convention Saturday shortly before the vote. Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich (Ga.), who received 12.5 percent of votes, and former Sen. Rick Santorum (Pa.), who received 6.9 percent, also addressed the gathering. </div></div>

LOL, and now he has slid back below Romney by double digits.

;)Repubs seem far more fickle of late.... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

eg8r
10-05-2011, 07:58 AM
I haven't read too much on him other than those emails that spell out his accomplishments. I am not ready to try and verify them but if they are true, then the man has great ability to rise to the top and make his companies successful.

eg8r

hondo
10-05-2011, 08:09 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hermain Cain just tied Romney in a CBS poll. </div></div>

I hope he un-ties him before church on Sunday.

Gayle in MD
10-05-2011, 08:34 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hermain Cain just tied Romney in a CBS poll. </div></div>

I hope he un-ties him before church on Sunday. </div></div>

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Here is the funniest joke of all.

Only Romney has a chance in hell of winning the nomination, so we're going to get to watch all of these devout Christians, campaigning and voting for a non Christian!

I haven't figured out yet how they are going to reverse that reaity, and deny that Romney is not a Christian.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

hondo
10-05-2011, 09:07 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hermain Cain just tied Romney in a CBS poll. </div></div>

I hope he un-ties him before church on Sunday. </div></div>

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Here is the funniest joke of all.

Only Romney has a chance in hell of winning the nomination, so we're going to get to watch all of these devout Christians, campaigning and voting for a non Christian!

I haven't figured out yet how they are going to reverse that reaity, and deny that Romney is not a Christian.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif </div></div>

Romney would disagree.
My son's GF is living with us. She's a Mormon and would definitely disagree.

Gayle in MD
10-05-2011, 10:03 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hermain Cain just tied Romney in a CBS poll. </div></div>

I hope he un-ties him before church on Sunday. </div></div>

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Here is the funniest joke of all.

Only Romney has a chance in hell of winning the nomination, so we're going to get to watch all of these devout Christians, campaigning and voting for a non Christian!

I haven't figured out yet how they are going to reverse that reaity, and deny that Romney is not a Christian.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif </div></div>

Romney would disagree.
My son's GF is living with us. She's a Mormon and would definitely disagree. </div></div>


<span style="color: #CC0000"> There are no less than nine versions of this one vision. There are three versions given by Joseph Smith himself. The first version was dictated by Joseph Smith in 1838 and published in 1842. It stated that he was fourteen years of age, that God and Jesus had appeared to him and told him that all churches were wrong.{3} Another version was dictated with portions in Joseph Smith's handwriting in 1831 or 1832. It stated that he was sixteen years of age, that Jesus had appeared and that by searching the Bible, he had found that all religions were wrong.

It's amazing to me, and I suppose you, too, that these accounts--as divergent as they are--could lend credibility to young Joseph's vision. If you were a witness of a crime and gave views as different as these, one would question your presence at the event.

Prophet David O. McKay says that: "The appearing of the Father and the Son to Joseph Smith is the foundation of this church."{4} I find it ludicrous that so many would place their faith on such a shaky foundation. Jesus called Peter the rock and that on that rock he would build his church.


Sources of Mormon Doctrine
The Book of Mormon is believed by Mormons to be the "fullness of the everlasting gospel."{5} If this is true, then why so many additions to it?
Mormon doctrine is primarily received by the Prophet of the church. The Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, spoke at Brigham Young University on February 26, 1980. During his remarks he gave the current teaching regarding the absolute authority of this high office. He stated: "Keep your eye on the President of the church. If he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it."

The Living Prophet is the first line of authority for the Mormons. The present Prophet can overturn any prior teaching of a past Prophet, including that of Joseph Smith. Brigham Young said that (paraphrased) when compared with the living Prophet, the Bible, the Book of Mormon and other standard works of the church are nothing to him. They do not convey the word of God as does the Prophet.

President Joseph Fielding Smith declared that at every General Conference of the church the speakers are giving forth scripture that is equal to anything in the Bible or the Book of Mormon.

To contrast the teaching of this evolutionary prophet, the Bible tells us that God is an unchanging God. Malachi 3:6 says: "For I the Lord do not change..." God's character does not change; He is the same yesterday, today and forever; nor does he change his mind."

The second source of authority for the Mormon is the Doctrine and Covenants and was written after the Book of Mormon. The Doctrine and Covenants contains revelations received by Joseph Smith after the publication of the Book of Mormon. For the Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants has authority over the Book of Mormon since it reveals "latter-day" truth. It's interesting to note that there are a large number of contradictions between the two.

The History of Joseph Smith, another source of authority, states this regarding the Book of Mormon: "He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates. . ., he also said that the fullness of the everlasting gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the saviour to the ancient inhabitants."{6}

Let me underscore the phrase "the fullness of the everlasting gospel was contained in it." If we can allow the English language to speak for itself, I think one would have to agree that what Joseph Smith is saying here is that the Book of Mormon is the full presentation of the everlasting gospel--that God has "said it all"--right here. If this is true, then the prophet has shot himself in the foot. Where, then, lies the authority for the Doctrine and Covenants and the other standard works of the Mormon church?

The Pearl of Great Price is made up of three books: The Book of Moses, the Book of Abraham and the writings of Joseph Smith.

The Book of Abraham is unique in that it was translated much the same way as the Book of Mormon. The Book of Abraham was translated from some ancient records from the catacombs of Egypt. Joseph Smith believed these records to be written by Abraham's own hand and called it "The Book of Abraham."

To shed light on the veracity of Joseph Smith's translation, three well-known Egyptologists were allowed to give independent translations of the papyri. Each one, independent of the other, came to the same astonishing conclusion. The Book of Abraham, as translated by Joseph Smith, was a farce. He had taken one proper name and translated it into some 85 words with eleven proper names. Joseph Smith did not get even one word correct in the whole translation. However, the manuscript was plagiarized from the Egyptian "Book of Breathings."

It is hard to reach any other conclusion than that Joseph Smith's explanations were products of his creative imagination. If, in fact, Joseph Smith's credibility concerning these sources is faulty, then can we dare assume that the balance of his teaching represents the truth?


Why Mormons Reject the Bible
Mormonism has become America's most successful home-grown religion; but are they the only true church, as they believe?
The Mormons insist that they do not reject the Bible--in fact, you might have seen their missionaries use the Bible. However, they consider it only partially complete.

The Church News, a Mormon newspaper, carried this statement concerning the Bible: "It is the Word of God. It is not perfect. The prophet Joseph made many corrections in it."{7}

The Book of Mormon echoes this idea in First Nephi 13:26: "... a great and abominable church which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the lamb many parts which are plain and most precious..."

To better understand the Mormon disregard for the Bible, we need to be aware of how they view the Christian church. The apostle Orson Pratt, in his book The Seer says this about the Christian community: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness."{8}

The Mormon church views the Christian pastor or priest as a hireling of Satan. But where did Joseph Smith get this idea?

Shortly after the religious awakening in upstate New York, Joseph Smith had a vision. In the vision he asked God which Christian church he should join. Joseph Smith writes in The Pearl of Great Price: "I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight."{9}

I believe that one could safely say that Joseph Smith considered the Christian church to be a false church. Because of this basic premise, the logical conclusion would be, if the church is false, then the source of its doctrine--the Bible--must be false as well. Therefore, one can better understand the motivation behind the eighth article of faith of the Mormon church: "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly."

Joseph Smith has, in effect, set the stage whereby he can rewrite the Bible,{10} or add to it, to establish his personal theology. The Mormon church believes that Joseph Smith is God's instrument to bring about His truth, in its entire fullness.

Whenever this attitude toward Christianity and the Bible prevails, the individual is drawn away from the Bible and to the writings of Joseph Smith and the Mormon church. Orson Pratt said: "No one can tell whether even one verse of either the Old or New Testament conveys the ideas of the original author."

An attempt at credibility is given the Book of Mormon by Joseph Smith in Volume Four of the History of the Church where he says; "I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book."{11}

In essence, Joseph Smith has attempted to strip the Bible of its authority and place that authority upon the Book of Mormon and the standard works of the Mormon church.

The Bible speaks for itself. We find in scripture that God's word will stand forever (Isaiah 40:8), that it will never pass away even though heaven and earth will someday pass away (Matthew 24:35).

According to 2 Timothy 3:16, the Bible is inspired by God; and 2 Peter 1:20 indicates that all scripture was written by men moved by the Holy Spirit.

God's word has withstood critics, skeptics, and others who have sought to destroy it.


Mormon Doctrine
"As man is, God once was. As God is, man can become." Is it possible that we, too, can become like God, that we can become God?

A chief source of doctrine for the Mormon church has been the book titled Mormon Doctrine{12} by the late Bruce R. McConkie. However, there are those who strongly disagree with him. The problem is simply this: McConkie contended that the true source of authority for the church is the standard works which include The Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price.

The presidents of the church, however, have attempted to establish themselves as the final authority of the church on doctrinal matters. McConkie gives us a glimpse of the primary teachings of the church. First is the belief that, "As man is, God once was. As God is, man can become."{13} The Mormon church teaches that God was once a man and that he progressed to godhood.{14} So for the Mormon, the good news is that you too can become as God. In contrast, the Bible clearly teaches that God has been God from everlasting to everlasting (Ps. 90:2).

Another belief is that individuals have to learn how to become gods themselves.{15} The road to godhood is paved with good works, and the responsibility is squarely on the shoulders of the individual.

Another belief that has received much attention is that godhood is not for men only, but for men and women together. This doctrine has spawned the teaching that God originally intended for man and woman to be joined together throughout all eternity--that the marriage covenant was to extend beyond death. The Mormon church further teaches that the practice of marrying "until death do you part" did not originate with the Lord or his servants, but is a man made doctrine.{16} This system of holy matrimony, involving covenants as to time and eternity, is know distinctively as "celestial marriage"--the order of marriage that exists in the celestial worlds.

The apostle James E. Talmage, in his book The Articles of Faith, says this about those who may aspire to such a marriage: "The ordinance of celestial marriage is permitted to those members of the church only who are adjudged worthy of participation in the special blessings of the House of the Lord..."{17} The use of the word "worthy" is another indication of the works orientation of the Mormon Church.

The Bible plainly teaches in Matthew 22:30 that in the resurrection men and women are no longer given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

The fourth doctrine we will look at is: God is a resurrected man. This doctrine puts forth the idea once again that God was once a man who discovered his personal godhood and elevated himself to become a god.

Joseph Smith says: "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's."{18} But he contradicts himself in the Book of Mormon; in Alma 31:15 he writes: "Holy, holy God; we believe that thou art God, we believe...that thou wast a spirit, and that thou art a spirit, and that thou wilt be a spirit forever." At this point Joseph is agreeing with the Bible, for we find in John 4 that "God is a spirit."

The problem of inconsistency arises for the Mormon church, when Joseph Smith contradicts himself between the Book of Mormon and the other standard works of the church--inconsistencies which point to the man-made nature of the religion. On the other hand, the Holy Bible is unique in that it has incredible unity in its message, even though it was written over a span of sixteen hundred years.

Josh McDowell, a defender of the Bible, writes: "Biblical authors wrote on hundreds of controversial subjects with harmony and continuity from Genesis to Revelation. There is one unfolding story: 'God's redemption of man.'"{19}


The Mormon Plan of Salvation
The Mormon church teaches that it is the only hope for salvation. If this is true, then why did Jesus suffer on the cross?

For many in this world, salvation is truly a slippery slope. Oftentimes the problem is that one does not really know if he possesses it or not. One of the greatest barriers to realizing our position in Christ is that we do not have a clear understanding of the gospel. To understand the Mormon church's teaching regarding salvation we must first realize what it believes the gospel to be.

By definition the Mormon church teaches that the gospel is the Mormon church system and its doctrine.{20} The church and its doctrine becomes the good news--their gospel.

For the Christian it's not an organization but a Person who represents the gospel, and that Person is God's only begotten son, Jesus Christ. It is the life, death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ that embodies the gospel for the true Christian. Jesus is man's savior. The Bible tells us that JESUS is the only way to God the Father.{21}

By contrast, Brigham Young says: "No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial Kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph. . . ." "He reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling as God does in heaven."{22} So for the Mormon, Joseph Smith has become the savior.

Volume One of Doctrines of Salvation says this about Joseph Smith: "No salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...then this knowledge is of the most vital importance to the entire world. No man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the Kingdom of God."{23}

The Mormon church teaches that all men will receive a degree of salvation and that there is no place known as hell.{24} By incorporating this doctrine into the church, they have attempted to undercut the explicit teachings of the Bible. Furthermore, the church teaches that it ALONE is the only hope for salvation. Bruce McConkie, the Mormon scholar, says this regarding salvation: "If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation outside of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."{25}

Many Mormons who may no longer fully believe the church's teachings find themselves in a dilemma. They have been so persuaded that only the Mormon church offers a hope for salvation that they lose all hope for ever obtaining it. To better understand this instruction, we need to recognize the twofold approach to salvation taught in the Mormon church.

First, is general salvation. Grace comes to the Mormon by the death of Jesus Christ on the cross, and there is no need for obedience to the Mormon church and its doctrine or gospel law. However, to obtain individual salvation one must meet the conditions set by the church.{26} For the Mormon, this salvation, called "eternal life," means godhood.

For the most part, the Mormon has never clearly understood the gospel of Jesus Christ because his church has so distorted Christian teaching. The outcome of this distortion is that Joseph Smith has stripped Jesus of His gift to mankind and he, Joseph, has taken the rightful place of our Lord and Savior. The Bible simply teaches that man must humble himself and receive the work Jesus did for him at the cross. Romans 10:9 put it this way: "...if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

© 1994 Probe Ministries



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Notes


Journal of Discourses, Vol. 16, 46.
Church News (Salt Lake City, UT: Deseret News, October 23, 1976), 5.
The History of the Church, Vol. 4 (Salt Lake City, UT: Deseret Book Co., 1976), 536.
David O. McKay, Gospel Ideals (Salt Lake City, UT: Deseret News Press, An Improvement Era Publication, 1953), 85.
Pearl of Great Price, The Writings of Joseph Smith 2:34 (Salt Lake City, UT: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1968). See also, Doctrine and Covenants.
Writings of Joseph Smith 2:34.
Church News (March 6, 1983, editorial page).
Orson Pratt, The Seer.
Joseph Smith, The Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith 2:19.
James E. Talmadge, Articles of Faith (Salt Lake City, UT: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1976), 2.
History of the Church. See also, William E. Berrett, Doctrines of the Restored Church, 325.
Bruce R. McConkie is perhaps the foremost Mormon scholar of this century. His book, Mormon Doctrine, is a pivotal book in understanding what Mormons believe.
Talmage, 430. See also Oscar W. McConkie, Jr., God and Man (Salt Lake City, UT: The Corporation of the Presiding Bishop, 1963), 5.
Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, Vol. 5, 613-14. See also, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, 333.
Oscar W. McConkie, Jr., 5.
LeGrand Richards, A Marvelous Work and a Wonder (Salt Lake City, UT: Deseret Book Co., 1950), 193.
Talmage, 445.
Talmage, 48. See also Doctrine and Covenants 130:22.
Josh McDowell, Evidence That Demands a Verdict (San Bernardino, CA: Here's Life Publishers), 19.
Interview with Hyrum Dalinga, fourth generation Mormon, 1985.
John 14:6.
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, 289. See also, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, 198-90.
Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1
Richards, 271. See also, John A. Widtsoe, Joseph Smith, Seeker After Truth, 177-78.
John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6.
Gospel Principles (Salt Lake City, UT: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1978, revised 1986), 291.
http://wri.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/mormon1.html </span>

http://wri.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/mormon1.html

Gayle in MD
10-05-2011, 10:20 AM
Hondo,
There seems to be some disagreement about Mormonism being a Christian Faith, among Christians.

As I understand it, most Christians don't consider Mormons to be Christians.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most Christian denominations do not regard the Mormon church as a Christian church. That is because the official writings of Mormonism deny fundamental teachings of orthodox Christianity. For example, the Nicene Creed confesses the clear biblical truth that Jesus Christ, the second Person of the Trinity, is "of one substance with the Father." This central article of the Christian faith is expressly rejected by Mormon teaching -- thus undermining the very heart of the scriptural Gospel itself. In a chapter titled "Jesus Christ, the Son of God: Are Mormons Christian?" the president of Brigham Young University (Rex Lee, What Do Mormons Believe? [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1992] summarizes Mormon teaching by stating that the three persons of the Trinity are "not... one being" (21), but are "separate individuals." In addition, the Father is regarded as having a body "of flesh and bone" (22). Such teaching is contrary to the Holy Scriptures, destructive to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and indicative of the fact that Mormon teaching is not Christian.

</div></div>

G.

eg8r
10-05-2011, 10:52 AM
Watch out for the claws. Gayle doesn't care what you think or your son's GF. Gayle is all knowing and will do what she can to save her own rear end even if it is someone on her side pointing out her misgivings.

eg8r

Soflasnapper
10-05-2011, 11:11 AM
As I understand it, most Christians don't consider Mormons to be Christians.

Many, if not most, certainly.

Why would that be?

The Bible warns of false prophets carrying the spirit of Anti-Christ's messages. And tells us how that may be determined.

If the supposed prophet bears any gospel but the gospel of Jesus Christ, it is a false anti-Christ gospel.

Clearly, the LDS has a new gospel, one that emphasizes a new salvation, through the LDS, and through works, and through Joseph Smith particularly (who they claim will sit along with God and Jesus at the day of judgment).

It is a brief deduction to conclude this is an anti-Christ false gospel, which makes these teachings a false anti-Christ cult, according to the clear language of the Holy Scripture.

That this is a widely held mainstream Christian take on the LDS was supported when LDS member Glenn Beck's Washington DC rally occasioned a denunciation from the Southern Baptist Convention, through a key spokesperson's officially published commentary, stating that this was the spirit of the Anti-Christ's message.

It should likewise be admitted that many of the more conservative Protestant sects consider the Holy Roman Catholic Church in exactly these same terms. John Hagee, for one example, simply calls the HRCC the 'whore of Babylon,' which for a nice symmetry, is what the LDS calls both the Catholic and Protestant Christian churches. ("I know you are, but what am I?")

hondo
10-05-2011, 01:06 PM
Not saying I disagree. Just saying that Romney and my son's girl friend would disagree.

hondo
10-05-2011, 01:08 PM
Yep, we consider them a cult.
IMO, Joseph Smith was a snake oil saleman.

hondo
10-05-2011, 01:12 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Watch out for the claws. Gayle doesn't care what you think or your son's GF. Gayle is all knowing and will do what she can to save her own rear end even if it is someone on her side pointing out her misgivings.

eg8r </div></div>

Poor ole Eg. Mis-read again. i never said I disagreed, just that she and Romney would.
Have you ever considered a remedial reading course?
There's a brilliant backwoods hillbilly at Fairmont State with a Doctorate from Yale in language arts who could probably help you.

hondo
10-05-2011, 01:16 PM
What I find amusing is that when Joseph Smith used urim and thummin to translate The Book of Mormon, it translated into English from King James' time.
How cool is that?

eg8r
10-05-2011, 02:52 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Poor ole Eg. Mis-read again. i never said I disagreed, just that she and Romney would.
</div></div>Might you enjoy a little comprehension lesson...I never said you disagreed either. Instead of being quick to run your mouth and "try" to catch me in a slipup you might want to read my post again. I said that gayle doesn't care what you or your son's gf think. I did not say you disagreed. I could have said gayle doesn't care what anyone thinks because basically she made a statement and you posted about people who disagree with her. In a roundabout way I said it doesn't matter what anyone thinks. I chose to include you to show you how meaningful that statement is because she will even argue with those on her side (witness some of her responses to sofla) and then I chose to add your son's gf since that is one of the people you chose to mention.

Jeesh, you call your self "educated" and an ex-teacher. I guess "ex" says it all.

eg8r &lt;~~~waiting to see if you will be in a hurry to run your mouth again

Soflasnapper
10-05-2011, 03:37 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I find amusing is that when Joseph Smith used urim and thummin to translate The Book of Mormon, it translated into English from King James' time.
How cool is that? </div></div>

Well, since the KJV was ok by Jesus... (!?!?!-- actually have heard people saying that!).

I knew of these scrying tools a bit back in the day, but was pretty sure it was umim and thummim. I was wrong, I found out, and your urim is correct. But it is thummi<u>m</u>.

(Important to know when confronting LDS missionaries. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif )

Soflasnapper
10-05-2011, 03:39 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not saying I disagree. Just saying that Romney and my son's girl friend would disagree. </div></div>

Probably you are correct, sir!

Cultists rarely identify their beliefs correctly as a cult.

Sev
10-05-2011, 03:44 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Discussion of e-verify here. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/story/2011-09-22/House-immigration-status-E-Verify/50520146/1) Timely again, as it is a current House proposal.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A Bloomberg Government report found that small businesses would have to spend $2.6 billion a year to use the program.

E-Verify is free to use, but the report found that businesses would have to train human resources officers, purchase computers and Internet access and hire personnel to oversee the screenings.

When discussing an earlier version of the bill in 2005, House Speaker John Boehner told the Republican National Hispanic Assembly that the nationwide expansion of the program was "well-intentioned, but fatally flawed" and said employers should not be "burdened with another cumbersome federal mandate." </div></div> </div></div>

It is not the place of business to perform the duties of immigration.
We have immigration laws that are not being properly enforced. </div></div>

It is not the place of business, to commit income tax evasion, in concert with others, either.

G. </div></div>
True.
However that is another matter.
If the federal government was properly enforcing the immigration laws from the get go, illegals would not be an issue. </div></div>

I agree, Ronald Reagan launched a disaster, and Republicans expanded it in order to provide cheap labor for American Corporations, who could steal more from the government, by hiring illegals, and thereby, they created ennough slave labor, to contribute to destroying the Middle Class American Worker.

Just my opinion, of course, mine and dozens of award winning econmists, that is.

Reagan was the president whose policies were to wipe out our Immigration policies and laws, when he pushed for Amnesty....basically allowing law breakers to become American citizens, which created this span of time where we witnessed the greatest flow of illegal immigrants into this country, than we had ever seen, since immigration laws were created, as is proven, by government studies.

G. </div></div>

It was one of the worst mistakes Ronnie made. Far worse than Iran Contra. I believe in later years he admitted regretting both.

I am a big supporter of Ikes "Operation Wetback".
http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/pqo01

hondo
10-05-2011, 04:33 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Poor ole Eg. Mis-read again. i never said I disagreed, just that she and Romney would.
</div></div>Might you enjoy a little comprehension lesson...I never said you disagreed either. Instead of being quick to run your mouth and "try" to catch me in a slipup you might want to read my post again. I said that gayle doesn't care what you or your son's gf think. I did not say you disagreed. I could have said gayle doesn't care what anyone thinks because basically she made a statement and you posted about people who disagree with her. In a roundabout way I said it doesn't matter what anyone thinks. I chose to include you to show you how meaningful that statement is because she will even argue with those on her side (witness some of her responses to sofla) and then I chose to add your son's gf since that is one of the people you chose to mention.

Jeesh, you call your self "educated" and an ex-teacher. I guess "ex" says it all.

eg8r &lt;~~~waiting to see if you will be in a hurry to run your mouth again </div></div>

Gayle has always been respectful of my opinion.
I just don't think she cares much about yours.

hondo
10-05-2011, 04:35 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I find amusing is that when Joseph Smith used urim and thummin to translate The Book of Mormon, it translated into English from King James' time.
How cool is that? </div></div>

Well, since the KJV was ok by Jesus... (!?!?!-- actually have heard people saying that!).

I knew of these scrying tools a bit back in the day, but was pretty sure it was umim and thummim. I was wrong, I found out, and your urim is correct. But it is thummi<u>m</u>.

(Important to know when confronting LDS missionaries. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif )









</div></div>

Apparently, they were spectacles very similar to those Roddy Piper used in They Live to spot aliens. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

hondo
10-05-2011, 04:38 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I find amusing is that when Joseph Smith used urim and thummin to translate The Book of Mormon, it translated into English from King James' time.
How cool is that? </div></div>

Well, since the KJV was ok by Jesus... (!?!?!-- actually have heard people saying that!).

I knew of these scrying tools a bit back in the day, but was pretty sure it was umim and thummim. I was wrong, I found out, and your urim is correct. But it is thummi<u>m</u>.

(Important to know when confronting LDS missionaries. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif )









</div></div>

I have heard students' parents exclaim, " If English was good enough for Our Lord Jesus Christ, it's good enough for us!"

eg8r
10-05-2011, 08:31 PM
LOL, now that sir is an ignorant post. She doesn't really care about anyone's opinion. She, like everyone else, sees an opinion for what it is. She will be nicer in her attack of yours though since you both are on the wrong side together. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif Without going back to look, I think your post in disagreement of hers received 2 responses and neither accepted your (son's gf) view. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

eg8r

eg8r
10-05-2011, 08:34 PM
Now that is funny stuff. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

eg8r

hondo
10-05-2011, 09:12 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL, now that sir is an ignorant post. She doesn't really care about anyone's opinion. She, like everyone else, sees an opinion for what it is. She will be nicer in her attack of yours though since you both are on the wrong side together. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif Without going back to look, I think your post in disagreement of hers received 2 responses and neither accepted your (son's gf) view. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

eg8r </div></div>

I don't accept my son's girl friend's view.
I thought my posts and exchanges with Sofla made that clear?
You really do have serious comprehension problems, don't you?
Listen, it appears that you think I'm ignorant and I think you're ignorant.
I know that I'm not ignorant and you probably aren't either.
This has turned into a pissing contest.
What say we let this drop?

hondo
10-05-2011, 09:15 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now that is funny stuff. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

eg8r </div></div>

It actually happen.
Her kid made a D in French and she told the French teacher that.
And we wonder why some of the kids are so slow!

Gayle in MD
10-06-2011, 01:05 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Watch out for the claws. Gayle doesn't care what you think or your son's GF. Gayle is all knowing and will do what she can to save her own rear end even if it is someone on her side pointing out her misgivings.

eg8r </div></div>

Poor ole Eg. Mis-read again. i never said I disagreed, just that she and Romney would.
Have you ever considered a remedial reading course?
There's a brilliant backwoods hillbilly at Fairmont State with a Doctorate from Yale in language arts who could probably help you. </div></div>

Eg. doesn't understand how others debate. Eg is all about discrediting people. It's beyond his capacity to grasp that some of us here, share ideas and information, and it isn't about "Gotcha" nor about "I'm smarter than you"...

He likes to create antagonism where none exsits, just as he is trying to do not, between us, now, in our dicscussion about Mormons, and the coming political quagmire for Republicans, lol.

He's tried to pull that same BS off before, between Sofla and myself, where none existed, at least not to my knowledge.

I think my friends here know that I respect their opinions, and about this subject, it was obvious from the start, his goal was to stir up ****, where none existed.

You know me well enough to know that I view all of these organized religion quagmires, and religious conflicts, as beyond my personal realm of serious comtemplation, or even mild interest, as far as my personal interests go.

I was obviously speaking to the views of the Religious right, as you know, not trying to prove your son's girlfriend, or Romney, wrong in their own views, but anticipating and addressing the possible religious confrontational dilemmas which may rise up from the political religious right, as regards Romneys' candidacy, and the implications of all of the 'group think' arguments, regarding his "Christianity.

Too bad. Eg seems to misunderstand so much of what is written here. It's a shame, because he's really got some very good instincts, and values, about how he lives his life, and particularly his family life.

Underneath his antagonistic little games, he obviously has a hard time relating to others who are interested in sharing, debating and communicating, rather than engaging in petty little personal attacks.

Maybe someday, he will grow enough to be able to say, simply, "I don't agree...beacuse" and then present his case, and get beyond his usual M.O.

G.

Gayle in MD
10-06-2011, 01:18 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not saying I disagree. Just saying that Romney and my son's girl friend would disagree. </div></div>

Yes, I knew what you meant, friend, I am just anticipating the religious quagmire during the campaign.

As you know, I don't subscribe to organized religions, for myself, but we know that they all claim to be "The" Religion, and try to discredit the others, so we may be in for quite a show, when the radical "Christian" fundamentalists, who don't like Romney, start their religious based attacks.

As for myself, I will just be laughing at all of them. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

G.

Qtec
10-06-2011, 01:40 AM
Lets face it, Cain has NO chance.

Its Romney or Paul and both have NO CHANCE, even against a weakened Obama.

Q

Gayle in MD
10-06-2011, 01:44 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lets face it, Cain has NO chance.

Its Romney or Paul and both have NO CHANCE, even against a weakened Obama.

Q </div></div>

My sentiments exactly. President Obama will win.

G.

Stretch
10-06-2011, 05:20 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lets face it, Cain has NO chance.

Its Romney or Paul and both have NO CHANCE, even against a weakened Obama.

Q </div></div>

My sentiments exactly. President Obama will win.

G. </div></div>

Yes, then we will have to put Lawrence on suicide watch. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif St.

hondo
10-06-2011, 05:28 AM
Yep. That's pretty much the way I see it.

hondo
10-06-2011, 05:31 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stretch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lets face it, Cain has NO chance.

Its Romney or Paul and both have NO CHANCE, even against a weakened Obama.

Q </div></div>

My sentiments exactly. President Obama will win.

G. </div></div>

Yes, then we will have to put Lawrence on suicide watch. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif St. </div></div>

Not at all. Gives him 4 more years to cut and paste.
This is what he does..

Gayle in MD
10-06-2011, 07:03 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Poor ole Eg. Mis-read again. i never said I disagreed, just that she and Romney would.
</div></div>Might you enjoy a little comprehension lesson...I never said you disagreed either. Instead of being quick to run your mouth and "try" to catch me in a slipup you might want to read my post again. I said that gayle doesn't care what you or your son's gf think. I did not say you disagreed. I could have said gayle doesn't care what anyone thinks because basically she made a statement and you posted about people who disagree with her. In a roundabout way I said it doesn't matter what anyone thinks. I chose to include you to show you how meaningful that statement is because she will even argue with those on her side (witness some of her responses to sofla) and then I chose to add your son's gf since that is one of the people you chose to mention.

Jeesh, you call your self "educated" and an ex-teacher. I guess "ex" says it all.

eg8r &lt;~~~waiting to see if you will be in a hurry to run your mouth again </div></div>

Pompous, arrogant, and rude, as always.
LMAO! Your denials are always so transparent, and convoluted, it's hilarious watching yur squirm.

No, there was no roundabout in your childish attack.

We all know what you were saying, and we all know that it had nothing whatever to do with the discussion we were having, at all. It was yet another blatant attempt of your main focus here.

No one would read your post above, and not realize that all you were trying to do was stir up ****, applying unpleasant motives to me, that don't exist, and change the meaning of what was actually being written, interjecting intentions that didn't exist.

I haven't argued with anyone, in reality, so try to get it through your head, Eg, that when you write some false BS assertion about what is in my mind, what I'm thinking and feeling, in your quest to "try" to discredit me, and my intentions, everyone knows what you are doing, and you're assertions are never true. As Q., tries to explain to you, over and over again, just because it comes out of your confused mind, that doesn't make it a fact.

I'm quite sure that neither Hondo, or Sofla, have ever felt that I was attacking them, or their views.

I realize how hard this is for you, but try to join the realm of reality. Stop trying to stir up **** between my friends and I, that doesn't exist.

You remind me of a nasty teenaged Jr. High school girl, who can't stand seeing other people getting along, so she makes things up to try and throw a wedge between their friendships.

Grow up!

G.

eg8r
10-06-2011, 07:42 AM
Sorry troll but hondo mis-read my post and decided to run his mouth and I shut it up for him. You don't know what "debate" means so to see you rant on is just too much.

eg8r

eg8r
10-06-2011, 07:45 AM
Sorry troll but he is the one that started out pompous. He was the one that stuck his foot in his mouth and asked me about a reading course when in reality it was him that misread the my post. I would quote it here for you but for you comprehension has been on a faster decline than your memory. Getting old sucks. Running your mouth seems to be all that you have left.

eg8r

eg8r
10-06-2011, 07:47 AM
So you want to add one last dig and then ask me to drop it? Sorry but you were the one that ran your mouth when you misread my post. You looked the fool and now you want me to stop pointing it out. Sorry it doesn't work that way. Quit acting the fool and then I will have nothing to say.

eg8r

hondo
10-06-2011, 09:36 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry troll but hondo mis-read my post and decided to run his mouth and I shut it up for him. You don't know what "debate" means so to see you rant on is just too much.

eg8r </div></div>

Still wanna piss on , huh? You didn't shut my mouth.
You made a fool of yourself. Mis-read everything I
said and came across as even more ignorant than usual.
I finally got bored and tried to give you a way out but you are obviously not smart enough to take it.
Any part of that you couldn't understand?

It still seems silly for two grown men to continue to engage in a pissing contest simply because your reading skills aren't up to par. Just STFU and we'll move on.

hondo
10-06-2011, 09:42 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Getting old sucks. Running your mouth seems to be all that you have left.

eg8r </div></div>

Not sure how old you are , but it appears to be all you have left either.
I mis-read nothing. I also edited nothing.
Just kidding was part of my original post to you.
And, yes, you have come across as a pompous ass in this post. An ignorant, pompous ass who's not smart enough to leave me out of your silly arguments with Gayle.

hondo
10-06-2011, 09:45 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So you want to add one last dig and then ask me to drop it? Sorry but you were the one that ran your mouth when you misread my post. You looked the fool and now you want me to stop pointing it out. Sorry it doesn't work that way. Quit acting the fool and then I will have nothing to say.

eg8r </div></div>

You have never fared well with me in debate, because, to be honest, you have a somewhat limited intellect.
But, if you are saying you'll stop the goofy replies and name-calling, sure, I'll leave you alone.

Gayle in MD
10-06-2011, 10:46 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So you want to add one last dig and then ask me to drop it? Sorry but you were the one that ran your mouth when you misread my post. You looked the fool and now you want me to stop pointing it out. Sorry it doesn't work that way. Quit acting the fool and then I will have nothing to say.

eg8r </div></div>

You have never fared well with me in debate, because, to be honest, you have a somewhat limited intellect.
But, if you are saying you'll stop the goofy replies and name-calling, sure, I'll leave you alone. </div></div>

If only! He never backs off from his childish M.O. around here.

Calls me a troll, but stalks everything I write.

Put him on ignore for a year, and he's still right there, relentlessly trying to make himself relevant, with irrelevant trash talking, and no awareness or education of the subjects at hand.

Unbelievable!
He lives on relentlessly insulting others. That's what keeps people like him, LWW and Ugo, going in life.
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif
G.

eg8r
10-06-2011, 11:29 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any part of that you couldn't understand?
</div></div>I guess maybe if you could go over the part where your ignorance outshines your ability to keep your tail between your legs once you are beaten down. You completely misread what I posted and then acted the fool by questioning my ability to comprehend after you failed to do so first.

I can see the education level in WV going higher everyday. Enjoy retirement, teach.

eg8r

hondo
10-06-2011, 03:29 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any part of that you couldn't understand?
</div></div>I guess maybe if you could go over the part where your ignorance outshines your ability to keep your tail between your legs once you are beaten down. You completely misread what I posted and then acted the fool by questioning my ability to comprehend after you failed to do so first.

I can see the education level in WV going higher everyday. Enjoy retirement, teach.

eg8r </div></div>

I see you've learned a few tricks from LWW.
1. Get humiliated and declare victory.
2. Insult my state.
3. Insult my profession.

You must be very proud. Keep this up and maybe he'll let you join his klan.
I thought you were a little better than that. i was obviously wrong.

Gayle in MD
10-06-2011, 05:04 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hondo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any part of that you couldn't understand?
</div></div>I guess maybe if you could go over the part where your ignorance outshines your ability to keep your tail between your legs once you are beaten down. You completely misread what I posted and then acted the fool by questioning my ability to comprehend after you failed to do so first.

I can see the education level in WV going higher everyday. Enjoy retirement, teach.

eg8r </div></div>

I see you've learned a few tricks from LWW.
1. Get humiliated and declare victory.
2. Insult my state.
3. Insult my profession.

You must be very proud. Keep this up and maybe he'll let you join his klan.
I thought you were a little better than that. i was obviously wrong. </div></div>

So did I.

And we have to put up with this non stop bashing and BS, from a freeloader living in Ohio, who obviously doesn't work, and a guy who lives in Florida, but denies that he is from the south, and gets his paycheck from defense contracts, while yapping about smaller government!

Geeze!
Hypocrisy personified, calling everyone else, a hypocrite!
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

eg8r
10-06-2011, 09:14 PM
Me humiliated? You were the one that ran your mouth before your brain could catch up. Next time I am sure you will shut your mouth first and think before you try responding like that again.

I never insulted your profession. I might say they are better off without you, and judging by the way you handled yourself in this post surely you wouldn't argue, but I haven't said anything about the profession.

eg8r

hondo
10-06-2011, 10:22 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Me humiliated? You were the one that ran your mouth before your brain could catch up. Next time I am sure you will shut your mouth first and think before you try responding like that again.

I never insulted your profession. I might say they are better off without you, and judging by the way you handled yourself in this post surely you wouldn't argue, but I haven't said anything about the profession.

eg8r </div></div>

I've had students like you, eg. One reason I couldn't wait to retire.
If you debated a rock, the rock would win because it wouldn't say anything stupid and you would.
And I do agree with you. You're way too dumb to realize you've been humiliated.
I'll let you get the last jab in. You've bored me to death.
P.S. I noticed everybody's agreeing with me.
Nobody likes you on this forum but me.
dubbie and the klan can't stand you.
And, man, your silly spins and trite insults are wearing pretty thin with me.
Are you off your meds again?

Sev
10-07-2011, 04:53 AM
http://www.cagle.com/working/110929/parker.jpg

Sev
10-07-2011, 04:57 AM
http://www.cagle.com/working/110927/varvel.jpg

Qtec
10-07-2011, 05:00 AM
Cain,

"Come, cast your vote. <span style='font-size: 20pt'>It will only cost you $1,750.</span>"

Some Democracy.

Q

Gayle in MD
10-07-2011, 05:26 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cain,

"Come, cast your vote. <span style='font-size: 20pt'>It will only cost you $1,750.</span>"

Some Democracy.

Q </div></div>

Maybe Sara will give him some of her loot, and then teach him how to get his message out, lol.

eg8r
10-07-2011, 08:31 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've had students like you, eg. One reason I couldn't wait to retire.</div></div>Really? You didn't like the fact that there were students out there that excelled in their classwork and went on to bigger and better things? You liked the ones that didn't know any better and allowed you to tell them "how it is". You wanted students that would allow you to coddle them instead of question you when you are wrong. I have had plenty of teachers like you and only wish they would quit also.

eg8r

LWW
10-07-2011, 11:00 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In news sure to inject shock and awe into the Republican political primary season, a Zogby poll released Thursday showed <span style='font-size: 11pt'>Herman Cain leading the Republican field, topping former front-runner Mitt Romney by an astonishing 20 points. Cain would also narrowly edge out Obama in a general election, the poll found, by a 46-44 margin.</span> </div></div>

<span style='font-size: 20pt'>OH DEAR! (http://news.yahoo.com/poll-cain-surges-opens-20-point-lead-romney-132015440.html)</span>

hondo
10-07-2011, 08:35 PM
Really, eg, that's what you thought I was saying? Really? ROTFLMFAO!

LWW
10-08-2011, 02:30 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've had students like you, eg. One reason I couldn't wait to retire.</div></div>Really? You didn't like the fact that there were students out there that excelled in their classwork and went on to bigger and better things? You liked the ones that didn't know any better and allowed you to tell them "how it is". You wanted students that would allow you to coddle them instead of question you when you are wrong. I have had plenty of teachers like you and only wish they would quit also.

eg8r </div></div>

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