PDA

View Full Version : Silly question



JJFSTAR
10-04-2011, 09:30 AM
Ok so think about this and give an answer. Is pool a “game of odds with an enormous skill factor” or a “game of skill with a big odds factor”. This may seem silly at 1st but I just want to get some feedback on how you all think about it. I don’t think there is a “correct” answer just a discussion on the thought process.

Soflasnapper
10-04-2011, 09:56 AM
I'll say the second one.

Game of skill, with a considerable luck factor. The better players overcome the rolls, generally.

My understanding is that, as a game of skill, gambling on it is considered legal, if you are the one playing. (Rail-bird gambling is not.)

JJFSTAR
10-04-2011, 10:17 AM
Interesting reply but it is my understanding that gambling is illegal most everywhere with the exception of a few designated areas. I don’t think that in Florida as long as you are not betting on someone else’s pool game that you are not doing something illegal. I think you might want to check that out just for your own edification. My question had nothing to do with luck or gambling though, but thanks for answering the question. So far we got 1 for #2, onward.

SpiderMan
10-04-2011, 04:08 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJFSTAR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting reply but it is my understanding that gambling is illegal most everywhere with the exception of a few designated areas. I don’t think that in Florida as long as you are not betting on someone else’s pool game that you are not doing something illegal. I think you might want to check that out just for your own edification. My question had nothing to do with luck or gambling though, but thanks for answering the question. So far we got 1 for #2, onward. </div></div>

Depends on your local and state laws. Around here, I believe "gambling" is not illegal - but operating an "unlicensed gambling business" is illegal.

This would mean that friends can pitch pennies or play cash poker together, but no one can host a game out of their home or business if they are charging admission, raking the pot, etc. Likewise, the office football pot is OK as long as the organizer isn't taking a portion out as a fee. Charities can make money on their bingo parlors, but they are licensed.

Similarly, it would seem to be OK for a bar or pool hall to collect money for a tournament and pay cash back to participants, but illegal for them to keep any of the money themselves. And indeed, poolhalls and bars in this area have 100% payback (most actually add money) in their weekly tournaments. Any benefit they receive comes from goodwill and an increase in bar business. That much seems self-consistent with my understanding of the legal situation.

Of course many pool halls still have "no gambling" signs posted, similar to signage for "no jump shots" and "no drinks on tables" - house rules, not state laws.

SpiderMan

Fran Crimi
10-04-2011, 04:33 PM
I'm sorry but I don't understand the question. Can you elaborate a little? Maybe give some examples?

Rich R.
10-05-2011, 06:20 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJFSTAR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok so think about this and give an answer. Is pool a “game of odds with an enormous skill factor” or a “game of skill with a big odds factor”. This may seem silly at 1st but I just want to get some feedback on how you all think about it. I don’t think there is a “correct” answer just a discussion on the thought process. </div></div>
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by the word "odds".
Assuming an "odds factor" is equal to luck, and also assuming we are discussing good players, I would say that pool is game of skill with a small luck factor.

JJFSTAR
10-05-2011, 10:41 AM
The odds of every aspect of the game; the odds of you making the shot and getting position, of successfully making the offensive shot or the defensive shot, of scratching or creating a problem cluster if you “let the CB loose”, The position you will leave your opponent should you miss (mostly in 8ball), Of attempting a low percentage run etc..

JoeW
10-05-2011, 02:30 PM
I think pool playing is a skill. The more skillful the player the fewer the number of mistakes and the less chance of a "bad" roll. There are probabilities associated with just about eveything in life. You can get shot in the heart and live but the odds are pretty low.

I read that Ralph Souquet (sp) ran 26 racks of 8-ball. Running over 200 balls in 14.1 is also indicative of the idea that it is a game of skill.

Stuff happens to everyone but when it is all said and done you pretty much get what you earn when playing pool.

10-05-2011, 04:12 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJFSTAR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The odds of every aspect of the game; the odds of you making the shot and getting position, of successfully making the offensive shot or the defensive shot, of scratching or creating a problem cluster if you “let the CB loose”, The position you will leave your opponent should you miss (mostly in 8ball), Of attempting a low percentage run etc.. </div></div>

Like others have said, I feel that the more skilled you become, the less luck or "odds" have a factor. This has also been my personal experience, as my skill increased. While there is always a certain amount of luck that will always be a part of the game, the number of instances will decrease as your skill increases.

Another thought is that for high level players, while there may only be 1 lucky roll,that 1 lucky roll could give one or more racks to your opponent, so while the lucky events aren't frequent, it can still have an impact.

If you are a C player or lower, and miss several times a rack, or have a loose cueball, then you will have more chances for luck to be a factor in a single rack.


Eric

Fran Crimi
10-05-2011, 04:31 PM
I think it's a game of skill with odds as a factor. The odds of any given situation are mainly dependent on the skill level of the player and change proportionately as the player's skill level changes. I think that the same also applies for the player's ability to accurately assess the odds in a particular situation --- The more skillful the player, the higher rate of accuracy in the analysis process.

JJFSTAR
10-06-2011, 12:03 PM
Thanks Fran I am glad I got someone on my same page. That is a good answer. To everyone I apologize for being vague. So what I am trying to say (and I didn’t say it very well) is by saying Is pool a “game of odds with an enormous skill factor” or a “game of skill with a big odds factor”? Is (this is about the best analogy I can come up with it isn’t a great one because there is no “physical” skill to either of these). Is pools more accurate description pokeresque-chess or chessic-poker? As I said sorry about my confusing OP; I think this is kind of a good question though. It is interesting how our definitions of words from different groups of people differ so vastly. To me the words odds, luck and gambling are totally different.

Fran Crimi
10-06-2011, 03:58 PM
Once I figured out what you meant I thought it was a good question and something I hadn't thought about before.

Sid_Vicious
10-07-2011, 09:20 AM
It all depends on the level of talent, the particular game, and the venue, i.e. tournament, fun-pool or gambling. Take 9B and non-gambling situations. Yes, it is talent first but saddled to the pressure to NOT lose in short races or single games. Then it becomes some luck in the rolls. In 8B it is the same basic thing, but you have so many outs with having so many extra OBs(nine is just the next in rotation), so it then becomes an easier game to complete. To conclude, it is really all about the talent pool you have at hand though. If I am playing an honest to God A+ or local shortstop or roadie...in a 9-ball money game...my overall luck is what's beating them if I get past them. That's 9-ball though. You can always buy in with another bullet, so the pressure is different. I really think that "SMART" needs to be added to this question, cuz being stupid loses more games here on the local level.

It all depend on the talent pool at the time to begin with. JM2C...sid