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LWW
10-13-2011, 07:26 AM
Undoubtedly Hitler was a fascist ... and a genocidal racist.

Since then, leftists who desire a fascist economic system have tried to convince folks that genocidal racism is fascism, and that is a lie of monstrous proportions as it deflects the public's attention away from is being done to them.

Let's review:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As an economic system, fascism is socialism with a capitalist veneer. The word derives from fasces, the Roman symbol of collectivism and power: a tied bundle of rods with a protruding ax. In its day (the 1920s and 1930s), fascism was seen as the happy medium between boom-and-bust-prone liberal capitalism, with its alleged class conflict, wasteful competition, and profit-oriented egoism, and revolutionary Marxism, with its violent and socially divisive persecution of the bourgeoisie. Fascism substituted the particularity of nationalism and racialism—“blood and soil”—for the internationalism of both classical liberalism and Marxism.

Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners. Where socialism nationalized property explicitly, fascism did so implicitly, by requiring owners to use their property in the “national interest”—that is, as the autocratic authority conceived it. (Nevertheless, a few industries were operated by the state.) Where socialism abolished all market relations outright, fascism left the appearance of market relations while planning all economic activities. Where socialism abolished money and prices, fascism controlled the monetary system and set all prices and wages politically. In doing all this, fascism denatured the marketplace. Entrepreneurship was abolished. State ministries, rather than consumers, determined what was produced and under what conditions.

Fascism is to be distinguished from interventionism, or the mixed economy. Interventionism seeks to guide the market process, not eliminate it, as fascism did. Minimum-wage and antitrust laws, though they regulate the free market, are a far cry from multiyear plans from the Ministry of Economics.

Under fascism, the state, through official cartels, controlled all aspects of manufacturing, commerce, finance, and agriculture. Planning boards set product lines, production levels, prices, wages, working conditions, and the size of firms. Licensing was ubiquitous; no economic activity could be undertaken without government permission. Levels of consumption were dictated by the state, and “excess” incomes had to be surrendered as taxes or “loans.” The consequent burdening of manufacturers gave advantages to foreign firms wishing to export. But since government policy aimed at autarky, or national self-sufficiency, protectionism was necessary: imports were barred or strictly controlled, leaving foreign conquest as the only avenue for access to resources unavailable domestically. Fascism was thus incompatible with peace and the international division of labor—hallmarks of liberalism.

Fascism embodied corporatism, in which political representation was based on trade and industry rather than on geography. In this, fascism revealed its roots in syndicalism, a form of socialism originating on the left. The government cartelized firms of the same industry, with representatives of labor and management serving on myriad local, regional, and national boards—subject always to the final authority of the dictator’s economic plan. Corporatism was intended to avert unsettling divisions within the nation, such as lockouts and union strikes. The price of such forced “harmony” was the loss of the ability to bargain and move about freely.

To maintain high employment and minimize popular discontent, fascist governments also undertook massive public-works projects financed by steep taxes, borrowing, and fiat money creation. While many of these projects were domestic—roads, buildings, stadiums—the largest project of all was militarism, with huge armies and arms production.

The fascist leaders’ antagonism to communism has been misinterpreted as an affinity for capitalism. In fact, fascists’ anticommunism was motivated by a belief that in the collectivist milieu of early-twentieth-century Europe, communism was its closest rival for people’s allegiance. As with communism, under fascism, every citizen was regarded as an employee and tenant of the totalitarian, party-dominated state. Consequently, it was the state’s prerogative to use force, or the threat of it, to suppress even peaceful opposition.

If a formal architect of fascism can be identified, it is Benito Mussolini, the onetime Marxist editor who, caught up in nationalist fervor, broke with the left as World War I approached and became Italy’s leader in 1922. Mussolini distinguished fascism from liberal capitalism in his 1928 autobiography:

The citizen in the Fascist State is no longer a selfish individual who has the anti-social right of rebelling against any law of the Collectivity. The Fascist State with its corporative conception puts men and their possibilities into productive work and interprets for them the duties they have to fulfill. (p. 280)

Before his foray into imperialism in 1935, Mussolini was often praised by prominent Americans and Britons, including Winston Churchill, for his economic program.

Similarly, Adolf Hitler, whose National Socialist (Nazi) Party adapted fascism to Germany beginning in 1933, said:

The state should retain supervision and each property owner should consider himself appointed by the state. It is his duty not to use his property against the interests of others among his own people. This is the crucial matter. The Third Reich will always retain its right to control the owners of property. (Barkai 1990, pp. 26–27)

Both nations exhibited elaborate planning schemes for their economies in order to carry out the state’s objectives. Mussolini’s corporate state “consider[ed] private initiative in production the most effective instrument to protect national interests” (Basch 1937, p. 97). But the meaning of “initiative” differed significantly from its meaning in a market economy. Labor and management were organized into twenty-two industry and trade “corporations,” each with Fascist Party members as senior participants. The corporations were consolidated into a National Council of Corporations; however, the real decisions were made by state agencies such as the Instituto per la Ricosstruzione Industriale, which held shares in industrial, agricultural, and real estate enterprises, and the Instituto Mobiliare, which controlled the nation’s credit.

Hitler’s regime eliminated small corporations and made membership in cartels mandatory.1 The Reich Economic Chamber was at the top of a complicated bureaucracy comprising nearly two hundred organizations organized along industry, commercial, and craft lines, as well as several national councils. The Labor Front, an extension of the Nazi Party, directed all labor matters, including wages and assignment of workers to particular jobs. Labor conscription was inaugurated in 1938. Two years earlier, Hitler had imposed a four-year plan to shift the nation’s economy to a war footing. In Europe during this era, Spain, Portugal, and Greece also instituted fascist economies.

In the United States, beginning in 1933, the constellation of government interventions known as the New Deal had features suggestive of the corporate state. The National Industrial Recovery Act created code authorities and codes of practice that governed all aspects of manufacturing and commerce. The National Labor Relations Act made the federal government the final arbiter in labor issues. The Agricultural Adjustment Act introduced central planning to farming. The object was to reduce competition and output in order to keep prices and incomes of particular groups from falling during the Great Depression.

It is a matter of controversy whether President Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal was directly influenced by fascist economic policies. Mussolini praised the New Deal as “boldly . . . interventionist in the field of economics,” and Roosevelt complimented Mussolini for his “honest purpose of restoring Italy” and acknowledged that he kept “in fairly close touch with that admirable Italian gentleman.” Also, Hugh Johnson, head of the National Recovery Administration, was known to carry a copy of Raffaello Viglione’s pro-Mussolini book, The Corporate State, with him, presented a copy to Labor Secretary Frances Perkins, and, on retirement, paid tribute to the Italian dictator. </div></div>

WORDS MEAN TRHINGS (http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Fascism.html)

cushioncrawler
10-13-2011, 08:26 AM
I dont understand any of this.
There iz no such thing az fascism.
Fascism -- what iz fascism -- nothing iz fascism -- Mussolini woz fascism -- Hitler woz fascism -- both are dead -- now, nothing iz fascism.
There iz no such thing az fascism.
All u now hav iz pipple that talk about fascism -- they talk about something that duznt exist -- and, even when it existed, it only existed in mussolini and hitler -- so why not just talk about mussolini and hitler -- mussolini and hitler woz fascism -- fascism wos hitler and mussolini -- and so everything else is bullshit.
mac.

LWW
10-13-2011, 08:42 AM
According to Mussolini and Hitler ... you are wrong.

Once again, when you remove the genocidal racism from Naziism ... Hitler and the Nazis are essentially identical to Obama and the democrats.

cushioncrawler
10-13-2011, 04:13 PM
All forms of politiks share DNA. I would say praps 95% iz common.
But if u took say 10 types of politics gov system constitution etc, and put Hitler in charge of each, u would get a different rezult, kompared to putting Obama in charge.

Az i allways sez, its the pipple that count, not the system.
U kood hav a weird short allmost non-system for a say corporation, yet that corporation might be very successfull and very efficient.
U kood hav a beautifull constitution etc, and yet the country kood be a shithole.

Its the pipple not the system.

Germany had the best constitution in the world -- got it from theusofa mainly -- and without changing even 1% of its DNA, we got what iz called fascizm.
mac.

cushioncrawler
10-13-2011, 05:16 PM
Fascist as epithet
Main article: Fascist (epithet)
Following the defeat of the Axis powers in World War II, the term fascist has been used as a pejorative word,[46] often referring to widely varying movements across the political spectrum.[47] George Orwell wrote in 1944 that
<span style='font-size: 14pt'>"the word 'Fascism' is almost entirely meaningless </span>
almost any English person would accept 'bully' as a synonym for 'Fascist'".[48] Richard Griffiths argued in 2005 that "fascism" is the "most misused, and over-used word, of our times".[28] "Fascist" is sometimes applied to post-war organisations and ways of thinking that academics more commonly term "neo-fascist".[49]

Contrary to the common mainstream academic and popular use of the term, Communist states have sometimes been referred to as "fascist", typically as an epithet. Marxist interpretations of the term have, for example, been applied in relation to Cuba under Fidel Castro and Vietnam under Ho Chi Minh.[50] Herbert Matthews, of the New York Times asked "Should we now place Stalinist Russia in the same category as Hitlerite Germany? Should we say that she is Fascist?".[51] J. Edgar Hoover wrote extensively of "Red Fascism".[52] Chinese Marxists used the term to denounce the Soviet Union during the Sino-Soviet Split, and likewise, the Soviets used the term to identify Chinese Marxists.[53]

cushioncrawler
10-13-2011, 05:21 PM
The fascists banned literature on birth control and increased penalties for abortion in 1926, declaring both crimes against the state.[91]

cushioncrawler
10-13-2011, 05:24 PM
Mussolini's coalition government initially pursued economically liberal policies under the direction of liberal finance minister Alberto de Stefani, including balancing the budget through deep cuts to the civil service.[99

cushioncrawler
10-13-2011, 05:24 PM
Fascists attacked the headquarters of socialist and Catholic unions in Cremona

cushioncrawler
10-13-2011, 05:26 PM
In 1929, the Fascist regime gained the political support and blessing of the Roman Catholic Church after the regime signed a concordat with the Church, known as the Lateran Treaty, which gave the papacy state sovereignty and financial compensation for the seizure of Church lands by the liberal state in the nineteenth century.[107

cushioncrawler
10-13-2011, 05:36 PM
Therefore, fascism tends to be anti-intellectual.[161] The Nazis, in particular, despised intellectuals and university professors. Hitler declared them unreliable, useless, and even dangerous.[162

cushioncrawler
10-13-2011, 05:46 PM
<span style='font-size: 14pt'>And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you
ask what you can do for your country.</span>

Qtec
10-14-2011, 03:27 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont understand any of this.
There iz no such thing az fascism.
Fascism -- what iz fascism -- nothing iz fascism -- Mussolini woz fascism -- Hitler woz fascism -- both are dead -- now, nothing iz fascism.
There iz no such thing az fascism.
All u now hav iz pipple that talk about fascism -- they talk about something that duznt exist -- and, even when it existed, it only existed in mussolini and hitler -- so why not just talk about mussolini and hitler -- mussolini and hitler woz fascism -- fascism wos hitler and mussolini -- and so everything else is bullshit.
mac. </div></div>

I agree. Good post.


Q......labels are meaningless. In the USA, the RW love to label everything. Its all BS.

LWW
10-14-2011, 04:15 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cushioncrawler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The fascists banned literature on birth control and increased penalties for abortion in 1926, declaring both crimes against the state.[91] </div></div>

Abortion is a social issue and not an economic one, fascism is an economic system.

That being said, Hitler legalized abortion very early on in his regime:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hitler and Abortion

When the Nazis came to power in 1933 one of the first acts Hitler did was to legalize abortion. By 1935 Germany with 65 million people was the place where over 500,000 abortions were being performed each year. Although Hitler and his government encourged Aryan women to produce a lot of children, he left the matter of abortion and all its facets in the hands of a decidely pro- abortion medical establishment. Even in the midst of Nazi propaganda aimed at increasing the Aryan population, scores of Aryan women still chose to abort their unborn children. The medical publication Deutsches Aerzleblatt reported the abortions in Germany each year reached a half-million.

Further, a Nazi decree of October 19, 1941 established abortion on demand as the official policy of Poland. Hitler, however, expressed dissatisfaction with this policy. Abortion, he believed, should NOT be limited to Poland. He therefore ordered that abortion be expanded to all populations under the control of the "Ministry of the Occupied Territories of the East."

On July 22, 1942, the Fuhrer exhibited a highly positive attitude towards abortion as an indispensable method of dealing with the non-German populations in countries under Nazi control. "In view of the large families of the native populations," he asserted, "it could only suit us if girls and women there had as many abortions as possible." Hitler also personally announced that he "would personally shoot" any "such idiot" who "tried to put into practice such an order (forbidding abortion) in the occupied Eastern territories. </div></div>

Another similarity between the Nazi party and the US democrook party. (http://constitutionalistnc.tripod.com/hitler-leftist/id15.html)

Qtec
10-14-2011, 04:36 AM
As usual, changing the subject.

Q

cushioncrawler
10-14-2011, 05:01 AM
Hitler of course aborted lots of jews and gypsies and pooftas and commies and unionists years after they were born.
Ve kood kall zat a fascist zing, or a nazi thing.
mac.

Nazism
(Nationalsozialismus, National Socialism; alternatively spelled Naziism[1]) was the ideology and practice of the Nazi Party and of Nazi Germany.[2][3][4][5] It is a unique variety of fascism that incorporates biological racism and antisemitism.[6]

Nazism was founded out of elements of the far-right and racist German völkisch nationalist movement and the violent anti-communist Freikorps paramilitary culture that fought against the uprisings of communist revolutionaries in post-World War I Germany.[7] The ideology was developed by Anton Drexler as a means to draw workers away from communism and into völkisch nationalism.[8] Initially Nazi political strategy focused on anti-big business, anti-bourgeois, and anti-capitalist rhetoric, though such aspects were later downplayed in the 1930s to gain the support from industrial owners for the Nazis, focus was shifted to anti-Semitic and anti-Marxist themes.[9] Nazism presented itself as politically syncretic, incorporating policies, tactics and philosophies from right- and left-wing ideologies, though a majority of scholars identify it as a far right form of politics.[10]

Nazism advocated the supremacy of an Aryan master race over all other races.[11] Nazis viewed the progress of humanity as depending on the Aryans and believed that it could maintain its dominance only if it retained its purity and instinct for self-preservation.[12] They claimed that Jews were the greatest threat to the Aryan race.[13] They considered Jews a parasitic race that attached itself to various ideologies and movements to secure its self-preservation, such as: capitalism, democracy, the Enlightenment, industrialisation, liberalism, Marxism, parliamentary politics, and trade unionism.[14] To maintain the purity and strength of the Aryan race, the Nazis sought to exterminate or impose exclusionary segregation upon "degenerate" and "asocial" groups that included: Jews, homosexuals, Romani, blacks, the physically and mentally disabled, Jehovah's Witnesses and political opponents.[15]

The Nazis promoted a right-wing socialist economy.[16][17] The economic system rejected egalitarianism and instead supported a stratified economy with classes based on merit and talent, retaining private property, freedom of contract, and promoted the creation of national solidarity that would transcend class distinction.[18][19] This socialism promoted the creation of a community of common interest between managers and employees in industry where a factory leader would be selected to act in coordination with a council of factory members, though these members would have to obey the Führerprinzip of the factory leader.[20] The economy was to be subordinate to the goals of the political leadership of the state.[21]

Qtec
10-14-2011, 06:28 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Hitler of course aborted lots of jews and gypsies and pooftas and commies and unionists years <u>after they were born</u>. <span style="color: #990000">LOL</span>

<u>Ve kood kall zat a fascist zing</u>, or a nazi thing.
mac.</div></div>

Eh..come again?

Q

Soflasnapper
10-14-2011, 10:45 AM
Of course, it was the SCOTUS that made abortion legal in this country, by 7-2, including Republican-appointed Chief Justice Burger concurring in the majority.

Which makes it all the Democratic Party's fault, surely, and exactly like the Hitler-imposed abortions back in the day.

Great analogy there! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

eg8r
10-14-2011, 11:21 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of course, it was the SCOTUS that made abortion legal in this country,</div></div>Are you referring to the same SCOTUS that had previously made it illegal? Either the wording the SCOTUS is changing or the interpretation is. My bet is on the latter.

eg8r

cushioncrawler
10-14-2011, 03:10 PM
Fascizm at one time made abortion illegal, at another time legal.
Fascizm at one place made abortion illegal, at another place kompulsory.
Fascizm iz like that, fascizm iz nothing and everything.

With fascizm happyness iz kompulsory.
In theusofa pipple are free to be unhappy, they fought for unhappyness, and they will fight to keep it that way.
mac.

LWW
10-14-2011, 03:41 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As usual, stopping leftists from changing the subject.

Q </div></div>

I fixed that for you.

LWW
10-14-2011, 03:43 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of course, it was the SCOTUS that made abortion legal in this country, by 7-2, including Republican-appointed Chief Justice Burger concurring in the majority.

Which makes it all the Democratic Party's fault, surely, and exactly like the Hitler-imposed abortions back in the day.

Great analogy there! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif </div></div>

Thanks for making my point ... subtract the genocidal racism and Obama and the democrooks are essentially identical to Hitler and the Nationalsozialismus Party.