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Sheldon
10-16-2011, 02:40 PM
How the Right's Lame Attack on Occupy Wall St. Shows the Poverty of Conservative Ideology
By Joshua Holland, AlterNet
October 15, 2011

A new NBC/ Wall Street Journal poll finds that among those with an opinion, twice as many Americans support the Occupy Wall Street Movement than oppose it. The movement -- with its defining message of standing with the 99 percent of Americans who don't have lobbyists working for them – appears to have tapped into a deep vein of discontent among working people whose economic security has been savaged by decades of upward redistribution of the nation's wealth.

The right, in keeping with its habitual knee-jerk defense of the privileged, has tried, with little success so far, to push back on that message. And its response offers us a microcosmic view of everything that's wrong with conservative discourse these days.

http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/152747

Qtec
10-17-2011, 07:55 AM
Most people support a tax on the super rich but the GOP oppose it!

Q

eg8r
10-17-2011, 08:40 AM
Most people aren't impacted so why should they care? They are greedy and the GOP is calling them out.

eg8r

Soflasnapper
10-17-2011, 01:09 PM
SOMEBODY is going to be asked to pay more taxes.

Right now, the GOP's dominant theory is that the poor and lower middle class, who earn too little to pay much or any federal income tax, ought to be socked with a tax increase. (???)

Cain's alternative theory is that EVERYBODY who isn't in the top 1% ought to pay a lot more (perhaps double their current taxation level-- ???).

Both of these theories are startling, and are only required if their REAL main goal-- keeping the 1% at the same or lower taxation rates-- is part of the revenue fix.

If raising the effective tax rate on the 1% is allowed, than the extremely bizarre ideas above are not necessary or required.

As someone said, it's not class warfare-- it's MATH!

eg8r
10-17-2011, 01:57 PM
It is absolute class warfare because the top 1% are paying the majority of the taxes anyways. You cannot just keep going back to the well to get more when you are not showing any honest cut backs anywhere else. Why should the rich be burdened to pay for increased government handouts for the poor?

eg8r

Soflasnapper
10-17-2011, 04:41 PM
The top 1% pay 40% of the federal income tax amount.

The federal income tax is only about 20% of the total federal income. So, they do NOT pay the majority of the taxes.

The rich are being asked to pay their share for our wars, and our accumulated debt, mainly having gone towards war and its preparation and later costs (health care for veterans, etc.).

The country has ALWAYS (eventually) raised taxes when at war, except this time, when the taxes were instead cut, twice.

Why should the top 1% not be part of the country's effort to pay for our wars and debt? Especially considering they'd received the majority of the total of tax cuts during W's terms?

Gayle in MD
10-17-2011, 06:07 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The top 1% pay 40% of the federal income tax amount.

The federal income tax is only about 20% of the total federal income. So, they do NOT pay the majority of the taxes.

The rich are being asked to pay their share for our wars, and our accumulated debt, mainly having gone towards war and its preparation and later costs (health care for veterans, etc.).

The country has ALWAYS (eventually) raised taxes when at war, except this time, when the taxes were instead cut, twice.

Why should the top 1% not be part of the country's effort to pay for our wars and debt? Especially considering they'd received the majority of the total of tax cuts during W's terms? </div></div>

Yes, and also considering that it's the wealthy top corporate
CEO's who make the money off wars, and are so involved in their organizations, like the American Enterprise Intsitute.

G.

eg8r
10-17-2011, 08:16 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The top 1% pay 40% of the federal income tax amount.

The federal income tax is only about 20% of the total federal income. So, they do NOT pay the majority of the taxes.</div></div>LOL, you are falling into the same hole qtip always does. When we refer to who pays what you know as well as anyone else that we are referring to taxable income, april 15, etc. Top top 1% pay 40 freaking percent of the federal income tax of all the citizens in the US. That is absolutely the most unfair number on the books and only idiots tell us the rich don't pay their share. That number starts jumping as you add the next 9% to list.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The rich are being asked to pay their share for our wars, and our accumulated debt, mainly having gone towards war and its preparation and later costs (health care for veterans, etc.).</div></div>I know you don't believe this BS otherwise you would be chastising Buffet for stealing from the poor. Nope, you give him a pass and the reason is perfectly logical, you are doing the same thing as he does and every other American. You are taking every tax break possible for yourself and your business. You do this to keep as much money to yourself as possible. On the outside you tell us it is bad the rich are getting richer and the poor are staying poor but then every year you take your deductions.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The country has ALWAYS (eventually) raised taxes when at war, except this time, when the taxes were instead cut, twice.</div></div>I am fine with increasing during war and then going back to pre-war rates afterwards.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why should the top 1% not be part of the country's effort to pay for our wars and debt? </div></div>You have already pointed out they pay 40% more than the bottom 50% in this country.

eg8r

Qtec
10-18-2011, 12:56 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When we refer to who pays what you know as well as anyone else that we are referring to taxable income, </div></div>

Absolute BS. If you mean income tax then you should say that.

News for you.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tax Foundation economists estimate that for tax year 2004, a record 44 million tax returns will be correctly demanding the return of every dollar (or more) that is being withheld from their paychecks during the year. In other words, after taking all the available credits and deductions, they will owe no income taxes and Uncle Sam may well owe them. Of course, this is quite different from the situation of people who have paid a great deal in income taxes throughout the year but are getting a small refund because the government withheld even more than the amount due.

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>The group of zero-tax filers <u>is growing rapidly because of the Bush tax cuts.</u> It was 29 million in 2000, and it will be 44 million in 2004,<span style='font-size: 14pt'> a 50 percent increase.</span></span> (See Table 1.) </div></div>


BTW, since 1990, average wages, adjusted for inflation, have risen by<span style='font-size: 14pt'> 4.5%. meanwhile, CEO wages have risen by 300%</span>!!!!
That's why they are paying a higher % of income tax revenue....because THEY have all the money.

Q.... facts. (http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/206.html)


http://static7.businessinsider.com/image/4e9460a669bedd444100002f-547/ceo-pay-has-skyrocketed-300-since-1990-corporate-profits-have-doubled-average-production-worker-pay-has-increased-4-the-minimum-wage-has-dropped-all-numbers-adjusted-for-inflation.jpg

http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/4e9460baeab8ea2d4d000022-547/ceo-pay-is-now-350x-the-average-workers-up-from-50x-from-1960-1985.jpg

Qtec
10-18-2011, 03:13 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Still At It: Fox's Guilfoyle Falsely Claims<span style='font-size: 14pt'> "Half Of The Country" Is "Not Paying Any Taxes Whatsover"</span> </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Previously:

Bolling Advances Falsehood That Nearly Half Of Americans <span style='font-size: 14pt'>Don't Pay Taxes</span>

Kilmeade Falsely Claims "51% Of The Country [Aren't] <span style='font-size: 14pt'>Paying Any Taxes At All"</span>

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>Hannity Repeats Falsehood That "<u>50 Percent Of Americans Don't Pay Taxes</u>"</span>
</div></div>

Q....... link (http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201110170021)

eg8r
10-18-2011, 08:41 AM
Only like ignorant people like yourself are clueless about the subject matter.

eg8r

eg8r
10-18-2011, 08:42 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Absolute BS. If you mean income tax then you should say that.</div></div>It is not my fault that your ignorance on the subject causes you to get lost over and over. I am not here to coddle you.

eg8r

LWW
10-18-2011, 08:57 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Soflasnapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SOMEBODY is going to be asked to pay more taxes.

Right now, the GOP's dominant theory is that the poor and lower middle class, who earn too little to pay much or any federal income tax, ought to be socked with a tax increase. (???)

Cain's alternative theory is that EVERYBODY who isn't in the top 1% ought to pay a lot more (perhaps double their current taxation level-- ???).

Both of these theories are startling, and are only required if their REAL main goal-- keeping the 1% at the same or lower taxation rates-- is part of the revenue fix.

If raising the effective tax rate on the 1% is allowed, than the extremely bizarre ideas above are not necessary or required.

As someone said, it's not class warfare-- it's MATH! </div></div>

This has been beat to death.

If you tax all the millionaires an additional $1M and tax all the billionaires an additional $1B ... it won't fix the problem.

You seriously need to get a grip on that simple fact.

Gayle in MD
10-18-2011, 01:32 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most people support a tax on the super rich but the GOP oppose it!

Q </div></div>

Yes, most do, and most also support tightening Wall St. Regulations, AND tightening Pollution standards.

The fact is, the Repiglicans do not represent the majority of Americans, not even close, because Repiglicans are radical, lying corrupt, greedy, unconscionable, nutjobs, who only care about the same GOD that most church leaders of organized religion care about, the GOD of M-O-N-E-Y!

Now we learn that Koch Brothers are Cain's saviors, and the same old Neocons who pushed us into Iraq, are Cain's future advisors!!!!


AND, Cain bashed his own 9-9-9- tax plan, himself, just a year ago. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Cain hs no chance in hell of beating president Obama...none!

We don't elect FUGLY people for President...these days, and Cain is as FUGLY as they come! It woudn't matter what color his skin was, he's FUGLY!

Repigs just get crazier and crazier...McInsane, is now attacking president Obama's BUS! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

BWA HA HA HA!


Repiglicans is de cwaziest people!

G.

Sid_Vicious
10-18-2011, 02:49 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most people support a tax on the super rich but the GOP oppose it!

Q </div></div>

Yes, most do, and most also support tightening Wall St. Regulations, AND tightening Pollution standards.

The fact is, the Repiglicans do not represent the majority of Americans, not even close, because Repiglicans are radical, lying corrupt, greedy, unconscionable, nutjobs, who only care about the same GOD that most church leaders of organized religion care about, the GOD of M-O-N-E-Y!

Now we learn that Koch Brothers are Cain's saviors, and the same old Neocons who pushed us into Iraq, are Cain's future advisors!!!!


AND, Cain bashed his own 9-9-9- tax plan, himself, just a year ago. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Cain hs no chance in hell of beating president Obama...none!

We don't elect FUGLY people for President...these days, and Cain is as FUGLY as they come! It woudn't matter what color his skin was, he's FUGLY!

Repigs just get crazier and crazier...McInsane, is now attacking president Obama's BUS! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

BWA HA HA HA!


Repiglicans is de cwaziest people!

G. </div></div>

It is such a circus act with Cain singing gospel on his news bite opportunities. You know what though??? there are lots of dummies, even right here with us, who will suck it all up. If is wasn't so hillarious, it would be real ;-) sid

Gayle in MD
10-18-2011, 10:34 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sid_Vicious</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gayle in MD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most people support a tax on the super rich but the GOP oppose it!

Q </div></div>

Yes, most do, and most also support tightening Wall St. Regulations, AND tightening Pollution standards.

The fact is, the Repiglicans do not represent the majority of Americans, not even close, because Repiglicans are radical, lying corrupt, greedy, unconscionable, nutjobs, who only care about the same GOD that most church leaders of organized religion care about, the GOD of M-O-N-E-Y!

Now we learn that Koch Brothers are Cain's saviors, and the same old Neocons who pushed us into Iraq, are Cain's future advisors!!!!


AND, Cain bashed his own 9-9-9- tax plan, himself, just a year ago. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Cain hs no chance in hell of beating president Obama...none!

We don't elect FUGLY people for President...these days, and Cain is as FUGLY as they come! It woudn't matter what color his skin was, he's FUGLY!

Repigs just get crazier and crazier...McInsane, is now attacking president Obama's BUS! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

BWA HA HA HA!


Repiglicans is de cwaziest people!

G. </div></div>

It is such a circus act with Cain singing gospel on his news bite opportunities. You know what though??? there are lots of dummies, even right here with us, who will suck it all up. If is wasn't so hillarious, it would be real ;-) sid </div></div>


They all looked like fools tonight.

The Repig Party operatives, IOW, top-crooks, already know, Repigs have only one shot, in the next elections, and that is to throw another Presidential election, and pull off more redistricing scams around the country, and that's where all of their efforts are going, right now, trying to block as many votes for Democratics, as they can.
Great Patriots, huh? Blocking votes, in a Democracy?

They're Pigs, REPIGLICANS...and no other word fits as well to describe them.

G.

llotter
10-19-2011, 07:43 AM
It's too bad that the Democrats, who are all anti-American commies, can't be redistricted right out of the country.

Gayle in MD
10-19-2011, 09:25 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's too bad that the Democrats, who are all anti-American commies, can't be redistricted right out of the country. </div></div>

Hey, we already know that you are a Nazi styled believer in framing any and all of your fellow Americans who understand the Principles Of Democracy, into commies, in your unhealthy mind.... with irraional statements, you don't have to continue to prove your own un-American attitudes over and over every day on this forum, by calling everyone else a Commie....while simultaneously proving that your own goals are about hating the Goverrnment of the USA, and seeking to dictate to all others according to your own irrational religious beliefs.

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>CLUE! </span>

You praise murderers...the Commies were murderers too.

Democratics have been the leaders for decades, in preserving human rights, and protecting others from the Repiglican desire and efforts to demonize every group of people in this country who do not fit into their comfy little, small minded views of what is right and wrong, while they protect the very corporate pigs who are destroying the planet.

Check out Google Earth, why don't you, so you can view for yourself the tragedy of Repiglican policies and what their energy policies have pushed through for those corporate energy pigs who have destroyed the Mountain tops in the oldest Mountain range on the earth...The Appalachians.


Check the votes of Repiglicans who have protected the Wall St. PIGS, the energy pigs, and the thieves for the last three years.


G.

llotter
10-19-2011, 11:24 AM
And the first step is kicking them out of the country must be to detach them from the internet and the keyboards.

Gayle in MD
10-19-2011, 12:18 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And the first step is kicking them out of the country must be to detach them from the internet and the keyboards. </div></div>

I suggest you learn how to write a logical sentence, yourself, first.

Gayle in MD
10-19-2011, 12:33 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Still At It: Fox's Guilfoyle Falsely Claims<span style='font-size: 14pt'> "Half Of The Country" Is "Not Paying Any Taxes Whatsover"</span> </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Previously:

Bolling Advances Falsehood That Nearly Half Of Americans <span style='font-size: 14pt'>Don't Pay Taxes</span>

Kilmeade Falsely Claims "51% Of The Country [Aren't] <span style='font-size: 14pt'>Paying Any Taxes At All"</span>

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>Hannity Repeats Falsehood That "<u>50 Percent Of Americans Don't Pay Taxes</u>"</span>
</div></div>

Q....... link (http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201110170021) </div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Their answer – or one of them – is a Tumblr account called We Are the 53%, an unimaginitive take-off of Occupy Wall Street's We Are the 99%. And here's what makes it such a perfect representation of modern conservatism: it's based on an egregious lie spun by the movement's leaders, and it puts those who are sufficiently gullible – or ignorant – to believe that lie in a position of fighting hard against their own economic interests.

The site is the brain-child of Erick Erickson, a toxic right-wing idiot hired by CNN in a futile attempt to deflect conservative charges of “liberal bias.” Erickson says he works three jobs – as others have noted, these include blogger, cable news pundit and talk-radio host – and his own entry notes that he can't sell his house and faces sky-high health insurance costs. “Suck it up you whiners,” he then adds, “I am the 53% subsidizing you so you can hang out on Wall Street and complain.”

The lie Erickson offers is simple. The 53% refers to a popular and wholly dishonest right-wing talking-point: that only 53 percent of American families pay taxes.

That's based on the fact that after 3 decades of stagnant wages -- and a series of changes to the tax code that were quite popular with Republicans -- about half of the population doesn't pay federal income taxes (it's actually 49 percent, so it should be called We Are the 51%, but when you're as wrong as Erickson, you might as well go all-in).

But federal income taxes represent just 22.7 percent of the government's revenues – it's a small piece of the pie. Payroll taxes also provide about a fifth of government revenues, so it would be like saying that hedge fund managers pay zero taxes because they don't pay that one type of tax (they do, however, get a sweet deal compared to the rest of us).

The reality is that when you consider all taxes, everyone making between $20,000 and $500,000 per year – the vast majority of the population – pay a tax rate of between 35 and 45.6 percent of their incomes, according to a study by Boston University economists Laurence J. Kotlikoff and David Rapson. <span style='font-size: 14pt'>So Erickson, and those who buy his pitch, are subsidizing nobody.</span>
</div></div>

Repigs are stupid little sheepies...bah, bah, bah...

ugotda7
10-19-2011, 02:23 PM
Envy of your betters is a terrible thing.

Qtec
10-20-2011, 04:30 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Absolute BS. If you mean income tax then you should say that.</div></div>It is not my fault that your ignorance on the subject causes you to get lost over and over. I am not here to coddle you.

eg8r </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> During CNN's presentation of the Republican debate Tuesday night in Las Vegas, <span style='font-size: 17pt'>Anderson Cooper misstated a key fact about taxes </span>in a question to Rep. Michele Bachmann.

"You said in the last debate that everyone should pay something," Cooper said to Bachmann. <span style='font-size: 17pt'>"Does that mean that you would raise taxes on the 47 percent of Americans who currently don't pay taxes?"</span>

"Wait, 47 percent of Americans don't pay taxes?" Zach Roth wrote on Yahoo's Lookout blog. "That's not true. It is true that 47 percent of Americans don't pay federal income taxes, because they get tax credits worth more than the amount of tax they owe. But income taxes are hardly the only federal taxes that people pay."</div></div>


So,<span style='font-size: 14pt'> even in a Pres Debate</span>, the guy makes the <span style='font-size: 14pt'>SAME MISTAKE that you do[/size,] <u>but you don't think this kind of dis-info is a problem.</u>

[size:23pt]I do.</span>

Q

eg8r
10-20-2011, 07:45 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So, even in a Pres Debate, the guy makes the SAME MISTAKE that you do</div></div>Wrong, the person making the mistake is the author you quoted. When we are talking about "fairness" and "equality" it is ALWAYS about income tax. The rich, middle and poor all pay the other taxes. When politicians talk about having the rich pay for new bills do you think they are talking about raising sales tax? No, they are always referring to raising income tax, or modifying other taxes to force certain income into the income tax realm. You are the one that is wrong. You are the one that is stupid enough to not catch on to what is being discussed.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
10-20-2011, 10:46 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Qtec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eg8r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Absolute BS. If you mean income tax then you should say that.</div></div>It is not my fault that your ignorance on the subject causes you to get lost over and over. I am not here to coddle you.

eg8r </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> During CNN's presentation of the Republican debate Tuesday night in Las Vegas, <span style='font-size: 17pt'>Anderson Cooper misstated a key fact about taxes </span>in a question to Rep. Michele Bachmann.

"You said in the last debate that everyone should pay something," Cooper said to Bachmann. <span style='font-size: 17pt'>"Does that mean that you would raise taxes on the 47 percent of Americans who currently don't pay taxes?"</span>

"Wait, 47 percent of Americans don't pay taxes?" Zach Roth wrote on Yahoo's Lookout blog. "That's not true. It is true that 47 percent of Americans don't pay federal income taxes, because they get tax credits worth more than the amount of tax they owe. But income taxes are hardly the only federal taxes that people pay."</div></div>


So,<span style='font-size: 14pt'> even in a Pres Debate</span>, the guy makes the <span style='font-size: 14pt'>SAME MISTAKE that you do[/size,] <u>but you don't think this kind of dis-info is a problem.</u>

[size:23pt]I do.</span>

Q </div></div>

It's settled. It's documented. Cain's plan is a joke. Just more Repiglican favoritism by the right, for the wealthy.

Typical Repiglican policy, and typical ignorant denials of facts.

Same ol' Same ol'....

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

cushioncrawler
10-20-2011, 04:09 PM
The top 7.85% of taxpayerz pay 62.35% of tax and had 42.1% of total income.
If the tax woz flat they would hav payd 42.1%.

The top 29.54% of taxpayerz pay 84.11% of tax and had 67.11% of total income.
mac.